I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more
attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible while
attaching the frame.

Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Thanks

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
ups.com...
I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more
attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible while
attaching the frame.

Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Thanks


How secure does the union have to be? Attaching mating rare earth magnets
to each works well if you do not need absolutely no movement.

On Jun 5, 4:23 pm, Greg Esres wrote:
I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more
attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible while
attaching the frame.

Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Rare earth magnets, sliding dovetails, T-nuts or threadserts (aka wood
insert nuts) are a few possibilities. You didn't mention how big the
frames are and how much load, and in what direction, will be on the
fasteners, but you could tap the wood if it's a hardwood then just use
machine screws.

R

Rare earth magnets, sliding dovetails, T-nuts or threadserts (aka wood
insert nuts) are a few possibilities.

I was going to suggest t-nuts also, or possibly "barrel nuts",
threaded inserts (probably the same as threadserts?), or pocket-hole
screws, if it doesn't need to be dissembled and reassembled too many
times.
Good luck,
Andy

woodworkers supply has some hardware that might suit you. Similar
hardware is of course available from other vendors as well.

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/CATALOG.exe?CATDEFAULT=225&CATPAGE=196
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/CATALOG.exe?CATDEFAULT=225&CATPAGE=197

Greg Esres wrote:
I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more
attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible while
attaching the frame.

Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Thanks

Leon write:
How secure does the union have to be? Attaching mating rare earth
magnets
to each works well if you do not need absolutely no movement.

Movement ok, but it would be relatively heavy for magnets it seems. 3
ft x 5 ft frame, maybe, holding a sheet of glass.

Thanks

RicodJour wrote:

sliding dovetails

Yikes!

threadserts

I'll have to study those.

You didn't mention how big the frames are and how much load, and in
what direction, will be on the fasteners, but you could tap the wood
if it's a hardwood then just use machine screws.

3 ft x 5 ft frame with 1/4" glass over a window. I want to be able to
pull it off fairly easily and quickly, hence the preference not to
require a tool to remove it.

Thank you.

Andy wrote:
I was going to suggest t-nuts also, or possibly "barrel nuts",
threaded inserts (probably the same as threadserts?), or pocket-hole
screws, if it doesn't need to be dissembled and reassembled too many
times.

T-nuts look good. Barrel nuts look attractive, but I'd need one that
doesn't require a tool to remove. I'll look for those. Pocket-hole
screws would be too difficult to remove quickly

Thank you

Russ wrote:
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/CATALOG.exe?
CATDEFAULT=225&CATPAGE=196
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/CATALOG.exe?CATDEFAULT=225&CATPAGE=197


Some of that stuff may work...I'll have to study it to see exactly
what it does.

Thank you!

Might want to have a look at these. I used them on a saddle rack for my mom.
Three arms 24" stick out from the main body and hold saddles about 50-75#
each. Needless to say I have no complaints. Saddlerack is about two years
old. Watch the wordwrap. If the link don't work go to lee valley and search
for tension rod nuts.
Good Luck Lyndell

You may need a really long drill bit for some applications. :-)

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...=3,41306,52493


"Greg Esres" wrote in message
ups.com...
I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more
attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible while
attaching the frame.

Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Thanks

Tue, Jun 5, 2007, 1:23pm (EDT-3) (Greg*Esres)
doth posteth:
snip I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more attractive. snip

A pretty wng nut?



JOAT
What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new
humiliations?
- Peter Egan

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
ups.com...
Leon write:
How secure does the union have to be? Attaching mating rare earth
magnets
to each works well if you do not need absolutely no movement.

Movement ok, but it would be relatively heavy for magnets it seems. 3
ft x 5 ft frame, maybe, holding a sheet of glass.

Thanks



FIY the 3/4" x 1/8" round rare magnets will lift 22 lbs. each. The 1" x
1/8" will lift 30lbs. each.

See.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...363,42348&ap=1

Greg Esres wrote:

3 ft x 5 ft frame with 1/4" glass over a window. I want to be able to
pull it off fairly easily and quickly, hence the preference not to
require a tool to remove it.

As the old saying goes, "You can't get there from here."

Unless the glass is in a vertical plane, it will probably break if you
look at it cross eyed.

If the glass pane is vertical, the weight is such that unless you are
a trained gorilla, even wing nuts won't get the job done.

Just curious, what is the objection to using some kind of tool?

Lew

Greg Esres wrote:
| I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
| can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but
| more attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible
| while attaching the frame.
|
| Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Try 'aircraft fasteners' (without quotes). There exists quite a
variety of quarter-turn and push-to-open fasteners used in aircraft to
provide easy removal, secure fastening, etc.

To get you started, I found
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ha/fasteners.html with some
low-cost options...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:23:41 -0700, Greg Esres
wrote:

I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more
attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible while
attaching the frame.

Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Thanks

Knobs. But I have just a vague idea of your application.

On Jun 5, 7:07 pm, Greg Esres wrote:
Andy wrote:

I was going to suggest t-nuts also, or possibly "barrel nuts",
threaded inserts (probably the same as threadserts?), or pocket-hole
screws, if it doesn't need to be dissembled and reassembled too many
times.

T-nuts look good. Barrel nuts look attractive, but I'd need one that
doesn't require a tool to remove. I'll look for those. Pocket-hole
screws would be too difficult to remove quickly

What exactly are you doing? You'll get more creative, and possibly
more humorous, answers if the specific application is known.
Frinstance, if it's some sort of storm panel or shutter, then I'd
recommend vinyl bulb weatherstripping and not worry about perfectly
mating surfaces and closely spaced fasteners.

R

Greg Esres wrote:
I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more
attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible while
attaching the frame.

Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Thanks

Wood screw.

Lew wrote:

Just curious, what is the objection to using some kind of tool?

I'm putting an extra thick sheet of glass in the inside of a window
for an improvement in sound insulation. I'm thinking in a fire or an
invasion by ninjas, I'd like to get out of the window pretty fast. :-)

RicoJour wrote:

What exactly are you doing? You'll get more creative, and possibly
more humorous, answers if the specific application is known.
Frinstance, if it's some sort of storm panel or shutter, then I'd
recommend vinyl bulb weatherstripping and not worry about perfectly
mating surfaces and closely spaced fasteners.

Sorry, I was trying not to bore you guys with non-useful information.
I am making a storm window of sorts, but it will be on the inside of
the window. The purpose is primarily for sound insulation, but I'd
like to be able to remove the window quickly should the need arise.
Either escaping a fire or washing the windows.

Lew wrote:

If the glass pane is vertical, the weight is such that unless you
are
a trained gorilla, even wing nuts won't get the job done.

Hmmm...I haven't given much thought to the weight. I have no idea how
much a sheet of glass this size would weigh. Seems like 1/4" would be
strong enough not to break easily, though. Surely the thickness of a
sliding glass door is about that.

As for removing it by hand....perhaps a hinge might be easier.
sigh Decisions, decisions.

Thanks

Greg Esres wrote:

Hmmm...I haven't given much thought to the weight. I have no idea how
much a sheet of glass this size would weigh. Seems like 1/4" would be
strong enough not to break easily, though. Surely the thickness of a
sliding glass door is about that.

For an unsupported piece of glass that large, 1/4" is not very strong.

I have some 34"x57" pieces of 1/2" laminated safety glass that are
composed of 1/4" sheets with a layer of plastic in the middle I'm
saving for a job.

Trust me, they are very heavy, as is a sliding patio door.

If you need to get out of the house thru that window, in case of a
fire, you will need a simple tool.

It called a BRICK.

The bigger the better.

A matter of seconds may mean the difference between life and death.

If this project is for sound deadening only, consider smaller
unsupported panels, as well as considering some type of plastic rather
than glass.



Lew

HeyBub wrote:


Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Thanks

Wood screw.

That'll return more than a few interesting hits!

Wed, Jun 6, 2007, 12:30pm (EDT-3) (Greg*Esres)
doth mumble:
I'm putting an extra thick sheet of glass in the inside of a window for
an improvement in sound insulation. I'm thinking in a fire or an
invasion by ninjas, I'd like to get out of the window pretty fast. :-)

Well, if I figured I'd be needing to get out a window in some event
like that, I'd say a 9mm slug or two should do it - I keep a 9mm handy,
because I'm anticipating a ninja invasion any minute now. Or, hang a
large hammer on the wall next to the wndow - you coud make it decoraton
by usng an antique hammer. I would NOT want to dork around turning
wingnuts, or whatever, if that was my exit of choice in case of fire.
IF you're so cheap you don't want to break the wndow, put hinges along
one side, and keep it shut with sliding bolts or something.

Always remember, K.I.S.S. If you don't know what that means. you'd
better find out fast.



JOAT
If a man does his best, what else is there?
- General George S. Patton

On Jun 6, 3:33 pm, Greg Esres wrote:
RicoJour wrote:

What exactly are you doing? You'll get more creative, and possibly
more humorous, answers if the specific application is known.
Frinstance, if it's some sort of storm panel or shutter, then I'd
recommend vinyl bulb weatherstripping and not worry about perfectly
mating surfaces and closely spaced fasteners.

Sorry, I was trying not to bore you guys with non-useful information.
I am making a storm window of sorts, but it will be on the inside of
the window. The purpose is primarily for sound insulation, but I'd
like to be able to remove the window quickly should the need arise.
Either escaping a fire or washing the windows.

It's always better to give complete information.

The vinyl bulb weatherstripping would help seal between the frames and
also isolate the two frames so sound wouldn't be transmitted through
them - probably a minor consideration, but it's the correct thing to
do acoustically.

The "sound panel" will be big, heavy and awkward to move. If someone
is moving it in a hurry trying to escape a fire, I can easily see
someone breaking the glass and having spurting arteries as they're
trying to flee. That's probably not a good thing.

Patio doors have tempered glass as required by code. I'm not sure
what your local code would require as far as safety glass. Tempered
has to be cut to size then tempered, so it's more expensive than
laminated safety glass - but either way, code or not, I'd want safety
glass for this _emergency_ safety feature.

Hinging the panel would probably be the easiest and safest way to hang
it. I'd consider breaking the panel up into two separate panels so
they were lighter and easier to operate and less likely to break. You
should also pay attention to the space required for the panel swinging
out of the way.

Are there storm windows on the outside? That's probably the easiest
and cheapest way to get some sound attenuation.

R

On Jun 5, 4:23 pm, Greg Esres wrote:

fasten one square wood frame to another

If you can inset the 3 x 5 glass-bearing frame into the other, would
BULLET fasteners work for you? I am thinking eight of them would allow
the two frames to maintain registry and absent freakish ind event
"togetherness" too. By cutting finger grooves on the inside of the
removable frame, you should be able to pull it out easily. Note, this
approach would also work well with the magnetic suggestions - those RE
guys are strong - bet four 1/2" guys would do it. If you fasten the
"keepers" they sell for them a bit loose, the fit can be a bit
"sloppy" (easier to move in and out) and still do the trick.

Note, insetting the 3 x 5 frame inot the other is key here. The
considerable weight of 15 square feet of 1/4 glass might defeat the
magnets alone. Butthe ability of the existing frame bottom to bear the
weight would allow them to hold the thing flush to the inside frame.

If I should have read lore before responding to discover [more details
about] your application, forgive me.

I want to fasten one square wood frame to another in a fashion that
can be easily removed. I'm thinking wing-nut sort of thing, but more
attractive. Only one side of the piece will be accessible while
attaching the frame.

Can someone offer a suggestion as to what to Google on?

Thanks

How about using bed rail hardware like this:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5289
You could mount them on the stiles, either one on each at the top or two on
each, one at the top and one at the bottom.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

RicoJour wrote:

Are there storm windows on the outside? That's probably the easiest
and cheapest way to get some sound attenuation.

No, there are not, but some casual browsing suggested it was an
expensive way to accomplish what I wanted. Couple of hundred per
window is my recollection.

I googled on some weight estimates for a 1/4" sheet of glass and came
up with 52 lbs for a sheet 96 x 120, which is a lot larger than what I
plan. I'll check on the price for tempered glass, but I'm afraid it
will be prohibitive

For the windows where absolute quiet is required, I'm slowly building
some solid shutters that fit in a Z-Frame where the doors will be 1"
thick plywood. For windows where a large sound reduction isn't
required, I was looking for a quick and easy solution.

Lee Gordon wrote:

How about using bed rail hardware like

From my reading on sound insulating, I need a pretty tight, almost
airtight seal around the windows. This is the reason I'm planning on
an interior frame to which I will mount the frame with the glass.
Seems like it would be tough to get a tight fit with the bed rails.


Thanks

On Jun 7, 3:38 pm, Greg Esres wrote:
RicoJour wrote:

Are there storm windows on the outside? That's probably the easiest
and cheapest way to get some sound attenuation.

No, there are not, but some casual browsing suggested it was an
expensive way to accomplish what I wanted. Couple of hundred per
window is my recollection.

I googled on some weight estimates for a 1/4" sheet of glass and came
up with 52 lbs for a sheet 96 x 120, which is a lot larger than what I
plan. I'll check on the price for tempered glass, but I'm afraid it
will be prohibitive

For the windows where absolute quiet is required, I'm slowly building
some solid shutters that fit in a Z-Frame where the doors will be 1"
thick plywood. For windows where a large sound reduction isn't
required, I was looking for a quick and easy solution.

Old saying in construction, "Fast, cheap or good. I can give you any
two of the three. Can't give you all three."

A couple hundred dollars for a storm window that size is pretty
reasonable. If you value your time at, oh, say right around zero,
building it yourself will be cheaper.

Since you are concerned about the egress with the panel in place, the
window in question must be a logical egress path. It would be myopic
to create a hazard to save a few bucks. The only people that would
get injured would be you and yours, or the people trying to save you
and yours. Laminated glass will be cheaper than tempered and you can
cut it yourself easily. Another benefit is that the glass panel stays
intact when the glass breaks, where tempered breaks into a million
little pebbles of glass.

A large single pane of glass is not a particularly good sound
attenuator. Have you looked into using a double walled plastic
(Kalwall is the big name in architectural double wall), or making a
divided light frame that would accept smaller panes of safety glass?

R

Greg Esres wrote:
From my reading on sound insulating, I need a pretty tight, almost
airtight seal around the windows.

Don't forget some "weep holes".