I have some furniture I'm doing for myself and wonder if my technique
for finishing needs improving somewhere.

The steps I usually follow:

1. Sand using around 150
2. Apply stain conditioner
3. Apply stain
4. Check color if I want to go a little darker apply some more stain
5. Let dry. At least 24 hours
6. Apply first coat of Poly, this is usually the poly that is offered
by minwax in the brown/yellow container
7. 24 hours sand with 00 steel wool
8. repeat 6 and 7 3 times, I usually try for 3-4 coats of poly with
sanding inbetween.
9. apply Minwax wax


Now what I am wondering is should I do a final sanding inbetween the
last coat and the wax?

I'm switching to water based stain for these things just to see if
there is any difference and finish them with the poly from Minwax in
the blue/silver can. Satin finish. I usually do semi-gloss.

Any recommendations/suggestions?

You don't say what kinds of wood you are typically finishing; but, a
pre-stain conditioner isn't usually needed for most hardwoods. And, a light
sanding between the stain and the first coat of poly might get you off to a
little smoother start on some woods. You probably don't have to wait for 24
hours drying time before scuffing a poly finish coat - the stuff usually
dries in about 12 hours with reasonable drying conditions - but 24 hours
won't hurt anything either. Otherwise, your technique sounds pretty good.
If you are using a satin or semi-gloss finish - not looking for a high gloss
finish - there should be nothing wrong with a light sanding before your
final wax coat. Are you unhappy with your results? If not, why change?

If you do switch to a water based finish system, you do not want to use
steel wool for smoothing between finish coats. Any leftover pieces of steel
wool can rust between coats and cause spotting in your finish.
Jim Seelye

wrote in message
...


I have some furniture I'm doing for myself and wonder if my technique
for finishing needs improving somewhere.

The steps I usually follow:

1. Sand using around 150
2. Apply stain conditioner
3. Apply stain
4. Check color if I want to go a little darker apply some more stain
5. Let dry. At least 24 hours
6. Apply first coat of Poly, this is usually the poly that is offered
by minwax in the brown/yellow container
7. 24 hours sand with 00 steel wool
8. repeat 6 and 7 3 times, I usually try for 3-4 coats of poly with
sanding inbetween.
9. apply Minwax wax


Now what I am wondering is should I do a final sanding inbetween the
last coat and the wax?

I'm switching to water based stain for these things just to see if
there is any difference and finish them with the poly from Minwax in
the blue/silver can. Satin finish. I usually do semi-gloss.

Any recommendations/suggestions?

After years of trying to get a good blotch free finish with stain
trying everything from wiping stain to spraying dye I have decised I
hate stain. Maple, Cherry, Walnut and IPE are all beautiful woods
when finished naturally. (At least this is what I tell myself).
Cherry, walnut and IPE are gorgous with oil based finishes and I like
maple best with a water based poly of laquer. If god wanted maple to
be a medium brown he would have made maple trees out of all
sapwood. ;-)

If you want a nice smooth to the touch feel, then sand with 800 grit
wet dry sandpaper. Use water as a lubricant, and rinse the sandpaper
frequently. You need to use enough water so that it is a bit sloshy.

Oughtsix wrote:

After years of trying to get a good blotch free finish with stain
trying everything from wiping stain to spraying dye I have decised I
hate stain.**Maple,*Cherry,*Walnut*and*IPE*are*all*beau tiful*woods
when finished naturally.**(At*least*this*is*what*I*tell*myself).

And if you must change the color, as in matching an existing piece, dyes do a
much more blotch-free job than stains

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Jim,

Oh, thanks for the comment on steel wool and water, I hadn't thought
of that and would've been very disappointed.

The furniture I'm doing this weekend is a mixture of birch, a little
maple, and pine. But usually it's just pine that I use. The stuff is
for myself and I'm still in college so I can't afford much (hence
pine).

Oughtsix,

I know what you mean about grain. I saw walnut last year for the first
time without stain and I couldn't believe how much more beautiful it
is. All the walnut I've seen has always been stained very very dark,
almost to the point it's black and I never liked it until I saw it
unstained. The biggest problem is some of the future will be pine and
I want the pieces to blend together. I don't know once I get every
thing I built in the room maybe I won't have to stain and can just
clear coat everything.

MB,

You know that's exactly what I was thinking, but didn't know if doing
that was possible. I mean it should be possible right? There will be
3-4 coats of poly underneathe so why not. My stepdad does autobody
work so I learned some of those techniques for metal. I just didn't
think they would work on wood. You can see some of the CNC machine I
built in my dad's garage he

http://cutterscove.blogspot.com/

Thanks, guys, you've been really helpful.

Larry Blanchard wrote:

And if you must change the color, as in matching an existing piece, dyes do a
much more blotch-free job than stains

Maybe. Darker colored dyes can and will will blotch, because the
component in a typical "stain" that blotches _is_ dye. Lighter colored
dyes appear not to blotch, mainly because there is less contrast in the
blotching. It's there, if you look closely!

The cause of blotching needs to be understood before we go forward. It
is simply uneven penetration of colored liquid, due to differing
densities of the wood.

The best way to move a light colored, blotch-prone wood, to medium to
dark tones without blotching is to control color penetration. This can
be done in several ways:

- Partially seal the surface with either a spit coat (very thin shellac
or clear finish compatible with the stain), or by applying a "natural"
stain first. This allows the extra porous wood to absorb less color, by
letting it absorb the clear product. This is how most common "Wood
Conditioners" work.

- Totally seal the wood, and apply the color as tinted clear coats
and/or pigments sitting on top of the wood. A light dye under all of
this will increase the apparent depth of the finish. Most factory
furniture is done this way. Minwax and most other home center and
hardware store brands of stains don't work all that well with this method.

- Use a gel stain, which controls penetration by using a thick binder
that simply won't soak in as much. Gel stains can still blotch, if the
stain is toward the darker end of the spectrum.


Practice on fully prepared scrap! G

B A R R Y wrote:

And if you must change the color, as in matching an existing piece, dyes do
a much more blotch-free job than stains

Maybe.***Darker*colored*dyes*can*and*will*will*blo tch,*because*the
component in a typical "stain" that blotches _is_ dye.**Lighter*colored
dyes appear not to blotch, mainly because there is less contrast in the
blotching.**It's*there,*if*you*look*closely!

Hmmmm. AFAIK, stain is pigment particles (solids) in suspension. That's why
they settle to the bottom of the can. Dyes are dissolved pigments (liquids).
Stain particles lodge in the pores of the wood. The denser the pores, the
denser the paticles. Dyes soak into the wood, with or without pores,
although they will penetrate deeper in softer sections.

And yes, dyes will blotch on some woods, like curly maple, just not as much as
stains. And the suggestion of a sealer coat is a good one.

I'm not impressed with gel stains when it come to blotch behavior, seems to me
that they blotch as much, or very close to as much, as liquid stains. But
they are great for vertical surfaces and for non-porous and semi-porous
materials.

There are some products out there that are part dye and part stain - I have no
experience with those.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Larry Blanchard wrote:

Hmmmm. AFAIK, stain is pigment particles (solids) in suspension. That's why
they settle to the bottom of the can. Dyes are dissolved pigments (liquids).
Stain particles lodge in the pores of the wood. The denser the pores, the
denser the paticles. Dyes soak into the wood, with or without pores,
although they will penetrate deeper in softer sections.

Note the interchange of the terms "dye" and "stain" used by Behlen:

http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/SolarLux.html

On Mar 16, 11:34 am, Larry Blanchard wrote:
B A R R Y wrote:

And if you must change the color, as in matching an existing piece, dyes do
a much more blotch-free job than stains

Maybe. Darker colored dyes can and will will blotch, because the
component in a typical "stain" that blotches _is_ dye. Lighter colored
dyes appear not to blotch, mainly because there is less contrast in the
blotching. It's there, if you look closely!

Hmmmm. AFAIK, stain is pigment particles (solids) in suspension. That's why
they settle to the bottom of the can. Dyes are dissolved pigments (liquids).
Stain particles lodge in the pores of the wood. The denser the pores, the
denser the paticles. Dyes soak into the wood, with or without pores,
although they will penetrate deeper in softer sections.

And yes, dyes will blotch on some woods, like curly maple, just not as much as
stains. And the suggestion of a sealer coat is a good one.

I'm not impressed with gel stains when it come to blotch behavior, seems to me
that they blotch as much, or very close to as much, as liquid stains. But
they are great for vertical surfaces and for non-porous and semi-porous
materials.

There are some products out there that are part dye and part stain - I have no
experience with those.


Ah, a good ol' fashioned wood finishing smack-down between two guys
with rhyming names. I'll sit back with some popcorn and watch as the
thread unfolds....

Jeff wrote:
I'll sit back with some popcorn and watch as the
thread unfolds....


You'll be dissapointed, 'cause I'm pretty much finished...

in replacement of steel wool there is a product called Bear-Tex, look i
up othe web. i use it all the time and know it is also a favorite in
fine furniture shops. the stuff is great for a glass smooth finish.
ross

wrote:
I have some furniture I'm doing for myself and wonder if my
technique for finishing needs improving somewhere.

The steps I usually follow:

1. Sand using around 150
2. Apply stain conditioner
3. Apply stain
4. Check color if I want to go a little darker apply some more stain
5. Let dry. At least 24 hours
6. Apply first coat of Poly, this is usually the poly that is
offered by minwax in the brown/yellow container
7. 24 hours sand with 00 steel wool
8. repeat 6 and 7 3 times, I usually try for 3-4 coats of poly with
sanding inbetween.
9. apply Minwax wax


Now what I am wondering is should I do a final sanding inbetween the
last coat and the wax?

I'm wondering why you wax if you don't?

With any clear finish, people often rub down the last coat with
whatever and then wax but the purpose of that is mostly to cut down
the sheen of the clear coat (and to smooth); the wax is to add a glow
to the now non-shiny clear coat. If you like the inherent sheen of
your clear coat there is no reason to do either.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

B A R R Y wrote:

Larry Blanchard wrote:

Hmmmm. AFAIK, stain is pigment particles (solids) in suspension.

Stains are anything that uses pigment to color wood.


OK, pigment stains lodge paticles in pores, dye stain molecules penetrate the
wood.

Picky, picky, picky :-).

And now I'm through too :-).



--
It's turtles, all the way down

Larry Blanchard wrote:

Hmmmm. AFAIK, stain is pigment particles (solids) in suspension.

Stains are anything that uses pigment to color wood.

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:38:09 -0500, (Ross
Hebeisen) wrote:

in replacement of steel wool there is a product called Bear-Tex, look i
up othe web. i use it all the time and know it is also a favorite in
fine furniture shops. the stuff is great for a glass smooth finish.
ross


Thanks Ross, I'll check it out.

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:25:11 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote:
I have some furniture I'm doing for myself and wonder if my
technique for finishing needs improving somewhere.

The steps I usually follow:

1. Sand using around 150
2. Apply stain conditioner
3. Apply stain
4. Check color if I want to go a little darker apply some more stain
5. Let dry. At least 24 hours
6. Apply first coat of Poly, this is usually the poly that is
offered by minwax in the brown/yellow container
7. 24 hours sand with 00 steel wool
8. repeat 6 and 7 3 times, I usually try for 3-4 coats of poly with
sanding inbetween.
9. apply Minwax wax


Now what I am wondering is should I do a final sanding inbetween the
last coat and the wax?

I'm wondering why you wax if you don't?

With any clear finish, people often rub down the last coat with
whatever and then wax but the purpose of that is mostly to cut down
the sheen of the clear coat (and to smooth); the wax is to add a glow
to the now non-shiny clear coat. If you like the inherent sheen of
your clear coat there is no reason to do either.

I was under the impression that wax serves as a final protecter,and
helps fill in the smallest "holes" to give an even smoother finish.

If I wet sanded wouldn't the wax also help bring back some of the
sheen?

Or should I be wet sanding and then Endusting?

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:52:19 -0500, wrote:


If I wet sanded wouldn't the wax also help bring back some of the
sheen?

Depends on how you wet sand. It's actually possible to sand the sheen
_up_, if you continue sanding to high enough grits.

The protection provided by wax is the slippery surface it leaves
helps protect against scratches and abrasion. The real protection
against moisture, heat and cold, chemicals (food, booze, etc...) comes
from the finish itself, with only a tiny help from the wax.

You're correct that wax can fill tiny scratches and help even a sheen,
which is why it's often used with steel or synthetic wools. Some
rubbing compounds also include wax as a rubbing lube.

Polyurethane cures s-l-o-w-l-y and stays soft for quite awhile. You
might get a better result if you plan to rub it out if you wait a bit,
maybe 4-6 weeks, before the final rubbing and/or wet sanding. Even
though it's "dry", the chemical process in varnishes continues for
some time, before the finish becomes truly cured. The pre-rub cure
time is one of the big reasons pro shops use lacquers or pre-catalyzed
finishes over poly

Somebody else already pointed out that steel wool will rust with water
base. Also remember that the fibers in the wool should go across your
rub direction, not parallel to it.

Practice panels, complete with sanding and full prep are great ways to
experiment and practice. Write your steps on the back, so you'll
remember how you reached each success or failure. Cordoning off
sections to compare different steps, like wet sanding one side and not
the other, can also be useful.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:50:00 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:52:19 -0500, wrote:


If I wet sanded wouldn't the wax also help bring back some of the
sheen?

Depends on how you wet sand. It's actually possible to sand the sheen
_up_, if you continue sanding to high enough grits.

The protection provided by wax is the slippery surface it leaves
helps protect against scratches and abrasion. The real protection
against moisture, heat and cold, chemicals (food, booze, etc...) comes
from the finish itself, with only a tiny help from the wax.

You're correct that wax can fill tiny scratches and help even a sheen,
which is why it's often used with steel or synthetic wools. Some
rubbing compounds also include wax as a rubbing lube.

Polyurethane cures s-l-o-w-l-y and stays soft for quite awhile. You
might get a better result if you plan to rub it out if you wait a bit,
maybe 4-6 weeks, before the final rubbing and/or wet sanding. Even
though it's "dry", the chemical process in varnishes continues for
some time, before the finish becomes truly cured. The pre-rub cure
time is one of the big reasons pro shops use lacquers or pre-catalyzed
finishes over poly

Somebody else already pointed out that steel wool will rust with water
base. Also remember that the fibers in the wool should go across your
rub direction, not parallel to it.

Practice panels, complete with sanding and full prep are great ways to
experiment and practice. Write your steps on the back, so you'll
remember how you reached each success or failure. Cordoning off
sections to compare different steps, like wet sanding one side and not
the other, can also be useful.


Barry,

The practice panels is a great idea. There are tons of finishes that I
have always wanted to try out, but always opted for something I have
used in the past. I would like to experiment more with finishing
techniques. The biggest reason I always chose the poly over everything
else, was I read somewhere that poly protects against water the best.
I'm the kind of person that has a tendency to set a drink almost
everywhere so I've always stuck with the poly, plus I really haven't
done that many projects that I feel confident in switching to
something else. I'm still learning about the poly process and its
little quirks, like going perpendicular with the wool instead of
parallel, I never knew that.

Any suggestions with brands for starting out with lacquers or the
pre-catalyzed finishers?

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:11:35 -0500, wrote:

Any suggestions with brands for starting out with lacquers or the
pre-catalyzed finishers?


First of all, don't kiss off polyurethane just 'cause it's poly!
Properly applied, it can look fantastic, and you're correct about it's
durability. It's really tough stuff, and extremely forgiving to apply
via wiping, brushing, and to a lesser extent, spraying.

If you want to go down the slippery slope of spray finishing, my
favorites are M.L. Campbell, Mohawk, and H. Behlen. Sherwin Williams
has professional products that others have recommended, but my local
SW dealers aren't as good as others have reported.

M.L. Campbell is distributed by Pratt & Lambert, so most local paint
stores that carry P&L can get it. Data sheets are at mlcampbell.com.

H. Behlen is the "consumer" version of Mohawk finishes. Woodcraft
sells Behlen, a local Mohawk dealer may be no further than your Yellow
Pages.

All sell nitrocellulose lacquer, which is a traditional furniture
finish, and is super forgiving to work with. The downside? It's
highly explosive (no kidding! this is NOT an exaggeration! You really
CAN blow the house off the foundation! G) and hazardous to your
health (think "huffers"). You'll need a real spray area, a good
respirator, and explosion proof fans and lights to use it. You can
spray it outside on a nice day, if you have the distance from the
neighbors.

NC Lacquer is a JOY to work with, it rubs beautifully, and each coat
simply melts into the last. It dries in minutes, so very little junk
lands in the finish. This product is very weather sensitive, so keep
good notes and never start directly on a visible section of the
project.

Lately, I've been doing a lot with water based "lacquer", with my
favorite being M.L. Campbell Ultrastar (usually "dull" for furniture,
which is more of a satin finish), although you'll need to add a
compatible amber dye, like Transtint Honey Amber or Amber Additive to
give it the warmth of solvent lacquer. Using Zinnser Sealcoat
premixed dewaxed shellac, as a sanding sealer (skipping the Ultrastar
sealer), also helps the "ambering". You don't want to build too
thick of a coat with Ultrastar, as it'll get fake looking on you.
Ultrastar dries as fast as solvent lacquer and is as durable as poly.
While it's not explosive, you'll still need a decent respirator, as
the fumes aren't healthy to breathe. Fuhr and Target are also good
brands of WB lacquer that I've personally used.

Personally, I use a Fuji Mini-Mite 4 (A cheaper Q4, minus the noise
reduction) HVLP turbine to spray. Another excellent turbine is
Turbineair. If you have a big compressor (I don't) you can pick up a
decent HVLP conversion gun for under $200. Check out
www.homesteadfinishing.com for conversion guns. With NC and WB
lacquer, I use a Fuji #3 setup and either a pressure pot or suction
cup, with the occasional switch to the #4 for heavier material. With
the Fuji gravity gun, I usually stay with the #4, as it dosen't seem
to feed as strongly as the pressurized cups. The ML Campbell WB
products spray right out of the can for me, with an occasional 20%
reduction for NC in hot weather.

As for pre-cat products, I prefer M.L. Cambell, simply because I have
a fantastic (not to mention very reasonably priced!) local source.
Sherwin Williams, Mohawk, and many others make them, practice using
the data sheets and ask the local reps for the specific setup tips for
your specific equipment. Pro finishes often have live, local support,
but be prepared to use a gallon or so in the learning process.

My favorite references to recommend are these (in order):

http://www.amazon.com/Tauntons-Complete-Illustrated-Guide-Finishing/dp/1561585920/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7024228-0566367?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174174889&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Wood-Finishing-Select-Finish/dp/0762106212/ref=pd_sim_b_3/104-7024228-0566367?ie=UTF8&qid=1174174889&sr=8-1

For spray-specific stuff:
http://www.amazon.com/Spray-Finishing-Other-Techniques-Woodworking/dp/1561588296/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-7024228-0566367?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174174963&sr=1-2

Also, there are others on this forum, notably "Nailshooter41",
"Robatoy" and Mike Marlow, who are very experienced finishers and post
lots of excellent advice. Sorry if I left anybody else out!

Nothing beats practice! It gives you something to do with all those
scraps. Once you start playing, don't forget to mess with some
moldings and doors. Save those milling mistakes. G

Please don't skimp on safety gear.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:50:54 -0400, B A R R Y
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:11:35 -0500, wrote:

Any suggestions with brands for starting out with lacquers or the
pre-catalyzed finishers?


Firs
Snip

Barry,

Wow thanks for all the notes. Lots to look into. Oh, I won't write off
poly it's just the only thing I've ever used and would like to try
something else.

I never thought about SW, I thought they were just paint, I think
there is one right around the corner from me as well.

Good stuff, thanks again.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 00:13:38 -0500, wrote:


I never thought about SW, I thought they were just paint, I think
there is one right around the corner from me as well.

You'll need to ask for the good stuff, check out Sherwin Williams web
site before going.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro/sherwin_williams_paint/product_specifications/finishing_guide.jsp

Scroll down to 099300.

Some folks here have great local SW stores, mine are below average.
Hopefully, you're in one of the other guy's areas! G

wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:50:54 -0400, B A R R Y
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:11:35 -0500, wrote:

Any suggestions with brands for starting out with lacquers or the
pre-catalyzed finishers?


Wow thanks for all the notes. Lots to look into. Oh, I won't write
off poly it's just the only thing I've ever used and would like to
try something else.

If you want to play with lacquer and don't have spray equipment, try
Deft Clear Finish. The can doesn't *say* it's lacquer but it is.
Solvent is lacquer thinner. And it's meant for brush
application...applies easily and sands very easily. Comes in gloss or
semi-gloss IIRC.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

I like an oil based finish on darker woods like Cherry, Walnut and
Ipe. I think it really brings out the grain of the wood and it just
can't be beat. Water based poly does not do nearly as nice of a job
in bringing out the grain as oil based finishes do.

Way back when I finished a really nice set of hard maple shelves with
an oil based finish. There is only one way to describe them...
"YELLOW". I will never use an oil based finish on maple or a light
wood again.

I prefer water based poly or laquer on light woods depending on the
function of the piece. Laquer is by far the easiest finish to work
with and I do use the Deft rattle cans if I can finish the piece with
one can otherwise I buy a quart or gallon and use spray equipment.
For any sort of table top with a light wood I prefer water based poly
for it's protective qualities. It has been my experence the water
based poly will hold up a lot better than laquer. I recently built a
rail for a staircase out of maple with an IPE top cap. I used laquer
on the maple and oil based varnish (1/3 tung oil, 1/3 spar varnish and
1/3 turpentine) on the Ipe. I love the way it turned out. The oil
finish on a wood as hard as Ipe should last a long time. If the maple
gets a scratch, it will be a very simple repair with a rattle can of
Deft.

P.S. When it comes to walnut many mills steam walnut to better
distribute the natural pigments througout the wood making the sapwood
closer to the same color as the heart wood. This has a tendancy to
greatly recude the impact of walnut. If I have a piece of walnut with
sap wood on it I try to position the sapwood on the final piece so it
becomes a feature of the piece not something I need to try to cover up
and blend in with the rest of the wood. Book matching two pieces of
walnut with sapwood can make for a very stunning visual detail in my
opinion.

On 19 Mar 2007 12:14:22 -0700, "Oughtsix" wrote:

Water based poly does not do nearly as nice of a job
in bringing out the grain as oil based finishes do.

Not to pick on you, the following is for general information. G

"Waterbase poly" as offered to the consumer market by Minwax, Benwood,
etc... is not the same thing as the waterbased "lacquers" sold by
Target, Fuhr, Oxford, ML Campbell, etc... and aimed at the pro market.
There are distinct differences in application and in the appearance of
the final, finished product. Some of the waterbased lacquers will
even "burn-in" just like solvent lacquer.

Lack of burn-in is one of the big problems with any polyurethane
finish, oil or water based. If a polyurethane (as well as certain
varnishes and catalyzing products) finish is wet sanded enough to rub
through a layer, white "witness lines" can appear.

To "pop the figure" under good waterbase finishes, the finisher can
simply use dewaxed shellac as a sanding sealer, dye (Analine, NGR,
etc...) or BLO. BLO needs a good week to cure before an overcoat of
dewaxed shellac under water base. Dyes can fade, or be moved or
removed, by carelessly applied water or alcohol based top coats.

Hmm...

The problem I have with BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil) is like all of the
other oil based finishes I have tried it imparts a very yellow hue to
the wood. While I find this perfectly acceptable on darker woods like
walnut and Ipe (even desireable) it is way to yellow for me on lighter
woods like maple. Some people may find the yellowish hue perfectly
acceptable on lighter wood. If I were going to put a base coat of BLO
on a project I would probabally just use an oil based varnish with it
(1/3 tung or BLO, 1/3 spar varnish, 1/3 turpentine, wait... wait...
wait for it to dry).

I have never tried a base or seal coat of clear shelac under poly for
"popping the grain". I have only used shelac under stain to try to
even the stain out. This might be worth trying on some test wood. I
find water based poly a little lifeless on maple and laquer not much
better. A little "pop" would be nice if it didn't impart any color.

Thanks for the tip!

On 19 Mar 2007 15:56:54 -0700, "Oughtsix" wrote:


I have never tried a base or seal coat of clear shelac under poly for
"popping the grain". I have only used shelac under stain to try to
even the stain out. This might be worth trying on some test wood. I
find water based poly a little lifeless on maple and laquer not much
better. A little "pop" would be nice if it didn't impart any color.


Just make sure it's dewaxed. Seal Coat or Zinnser Clear _spray_ is
OK. Zinnser Clear _brushable_ contains wax.

Thanks for the tip!

Glad to offer it!

Oughtsix wrote:

I have never tried a base or seal coat of clear shelac under poly for
"popping the grain".**I*have*only*used*shelac*under*stain*to*tr y*to
even the stain out. This might be worth trying on some test wood.**I
find water based poly a little lifeless on maple and laquer not much
better.**A*little*"pop"*would*be*nice*if*it*didn't *impart*any*color.


It will add a little color, but the dewaxed super blonde will add very little.

BTW, I've tried a swipe coat of clear Watco under the shellac, as some have
said the combination "pops" the grain more. My eyes can't tell that the oil
has added anything on the cherry/walnut/alder/maple I've tried it on.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:15:53 -0800, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

BTW, I've tried a swipe coat of clear Watco under the shellac, as some have
said the combination "pops" the grain more. My eyes can't tell that the oil
has added anything on the cherry/walnut/alder/maple I've tried it on.

The swipe goes under the WB on maple, birch, etc....

Under the shellac, you use more, as now you're looking to add color,
say to QSWO...

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:47:19 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:15:53 -0800, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

BTW, I've tried a swipe coat of clear Watco under the shellac, as some have
said the combination "pops" the grain more. My eyes can't tell that the oil
has added anything on the cherry/walnut/alder/maple I've tried it on.

The swipe goes under the WB on maple, birch, etc....

Under the shellac, you use more, as now you're looking to add color,
say to QSWO...


From the sounds of it most of you spray on your finishes vs.
brushing them on?

I'm not up to spraying just yet still doing this stuff with a brush or
those foam brushes, but by spraying you usually end up with a very
thin layer(i'm going from experience of spray painting and spraying
protective clears on artwork). Even if you spray 2 or 3 coats won't
this still be a thinner layer than brushing on 1 layer?

And with the sprayed on layers don't you guys worry that when you sand
in between coats that you are taking of a layer completely?

I'm asking all these about spraying simply because the drying time for
me between coats of poly is 24 hours. So between stain, finishing, and
waxing I'm looking at a week of the piece sitting there doing nothing.
Any way to finish a piece in a day? Yes, that's shear ignorance
asking.

Thanks for all the help. It's nice to listen to experience for my
future learning.

I think the best thing for me to do is what was suggested before, just
go buy a piece of wood and a ton of different finishing materials and
experiment and label what's what.

wrote:

From*the*sounds*of*it*most*of*you*spray*on*your*fi nishes*vs.
brushing them on?

No, I put almost everything on with a rag or a pad.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

A one day finish?

Shellac can have a bunch of coats in a day. The question is
whether it is a strong enough finish for your use.

Lacquer can sure be done in a day, a couple of times over.

I don't think you want to start here, but do some research on
pre/post catalyzed lacquer and on catalyzed varnish and/or
conversion varnish.
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:47:19 GMT, B A R R Y

wrote:

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:15:53 -0800, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

BTW, I've tried a swipe coat of clear Watco under the shellac,
as some have
said the combination "pops" the grain more. My eyes can't tell
that the oil
has added anything on the cherry/walnut/alder/maple I've tried
it on.

The swipe goes under the WB on maple, birch, etc....

Under the shellac, you use more, as now you're looking to add
color,
say to QSWO...


From the sounds of it most of you spray on your finishes vs.
brushing them on?

I'm not up to spraying just yet still doing this stuff with a
brush or
those foam brushes, but by spraying you usually end up with a
very
thin layer(i'm going from experience of spray painting and
spraying
protective clears on artwork). Even if you spray 2 or 3 coats
won't
this still be a thinner layer than brushing on 1 layer?

And with the sprayed on layers don't you guys worry that when
you sand
in between coats that you are taking of a layer completely?

I'm asking all these about spraying simply because the drying
time for
me between coats of poly is 24 hours. So between stain,
finishing, and
waxing I'm looking at a week of the piece sitting there doing
nothing.
Any way to finish a piece in a day? Yes, that's shear ignorance
asking.

Thanks for all the help. It's nice to listen to experience for
my
future learning.

I think the best thing for me to do is what was suggested
before, just
go buy a piece of wood and a ton of different finishing
materials and
experiment and label what's what.

Visit www.homesteadfinishing.com and buy some dewaxed shellac flakes
and use the "Search" utility to lok around. Excellent forum!

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:22:34 -0800, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

wrote:

From*the*sounds*of*it*most*of*you*spray*on*your*fi nishes*vs.
brushing them on?

No, I put almost everything on with a rag or a pad.