In planning for our kitchen remodel, my wife and i have decided to
replace our kitchen cabinet doors and refinish the existing cabinetry.

Rockler's custom order doors are $$$$$$$, as are many others.

For about $500 I can outfit myself with the tools I need to complete
this job - rail/stile bits, raised panel bit, etc etc.

I'm a newbie at this sort of woodwork, but i have experience in trim
carpentry and feel confident that i can take my time and do a good job
with it.

I do have a few questions though. Go easy on me!

-I'm assuming I need some sort of mechanical fastener for the frame of
the cabinet door. What should I look at for this, or will a good glue
like Titebond or Gorilla work?

-This one really sounds lame... What thickness wood should I look at
for the frame and the panel? It seems, from my research, that 7/8 is
the most common frame thickness, but I can't figure out what thickness
panel to use.

Thanks for any help. I'd much rather do this myself (and accumulate
some new tools!) than outsource it.

Adam
Atlanta, GA

On Mar 7, 1:06 pm, wrote:
In planning for our kitchen remodel, my wife and i have decided to
replace our kitchen cabinet doors and refinish the existing cabinetry.

Rockler's custom order doors are $$$$$$$, as are many others.

For about $500 I can outfit myself with the tools I need to complete
this job - rail/stile bits, raised panel bit, etc etc.

I'm a newbie at this sort of woodwork, but i have experience in trim
carpentry and feel confident that i can take my time and do a good job
with it.

I do have a few questions though. Go easy on me!

-I'm assuming I need some sort of mechanical fastener for the frame of
the cabinet door. What should I look at for this, or will a good glue
like Titebond or Gorilla work?

-This one really sounds lame... What thickness wood should I look at
for the frame and the panel? It seems, from my research, that 7/8 is
the most common frame thickness, but I can't figure out what thickness
panel to use.

Thanks for any help. I'd much rather do this myself (and accumulate
some new tools!) than outsource it.

Adam
Atlanta, GA

I'm a newbie as well and have made raised panel doors.

I just glued the frame together and they have held up to two toddlers
fine for 6 months.

The frame is usually 7/8 to 1 inch and the panel 3/4 but they don't
have to be. The reason for the thicker frame is so the outermost part
of the panel will be flush or co-planar with the front of the frame.
You could make both out of 3/4 and have a fine door.

I would reconsider undertaking this project. Not only do you need a
router, table, and bits in addition to tools you already have. You
also have to buy the stock thicknessed or buy a planer. You will also
need a way to join boards for the panels including planing them
straight. Finding the stock could be a problem in itslef and very
expensive. Then you have to stain & finish the doors. While
certainly doable the cost to DIY could easily be higher than having
them shipped to your door.

I bought our cabinets from Lowes and while not 'fine furniture' they
are as well made as any I have seen in a house and I could not have
bought the wood with the $5K I paid them.

Here is the website of the company that either made or shipped the
cabinets to my house.
http://www.shenandoahcabinetry.com/
A real pleasure to deal with, quickly replaced they few pieces that
were damaged in shipping and lots of trim pieces available that you
would also have to make/stain.

Rockler's custom order doors are $$$$$$$, as are many others.

For about $500 I can outfit myself with the tools I need to complete
this job - rail/stile bits, raised panel bit, etc etc.

(Warning: this only my opinion, not a carefully researched response,
and as such, it may not be worth any more than you paid for it...)
Your time must be pretty cheap if you think you can save money by
making your own cabinet doors. (If you really want to make doors for
fun, and don't mind spending some money and time to do so, disregard
the rest of this post and have fun making your doors).
Assuming you want some decent cherry or oak, plan on at least $4-5/bf,
rough, assuming you already have a jointer and a planer (if not,
there's an extra $grand or two, or extra cost for S2S at the shop).
If you haven't done doors before, plan on a few for practice (I
recently did some experimenting with a rail+stile bit for the first
time, and it took quite a bit of tweaking - granted you'll get better
with practice, but there's more wood and time to factor in). I
assume you already have a good-sized, stable router table, and
possibly a drum sander for the panels. We looked at a house a while
ago that needed new cabinet doors, and for me, the main issue came
down to time - how long would it take to select the wood, surface it,
cut it to final dimensions, rout the frames, glue up the panels,
surface the panels, put several coats of finish on everything,
assemble the doors, add hinges and hardware, and mount them? Even if
the cost of wood+tools is a little cheaper than pre-made doors, how
soon do you want them? (Or more importantly, how soon does your wife
want them?) How much free time do you have? How much is that time
worth per hour?
Again, if you want to do this as a project for yourself, absolutely go
for it, I wouldn't want to discourage you. But if you want to save
money and have your new doors before next year, Rockler's doors at
roughly $100-125 each sound like a pretty good deal to me.
Andy

My gut is telling me I probably should reconsider....

What about MDF cabinet doors? I've heard of some problems with them,
how much truth is in it? Would they be acceptable for use in a kitchen
with care?

I would get them raw and finish (paint) them myself. Does anyone have
good info on priming/painting MDF? I hear it can be tricky. I do have
a spray setup - HVLP pressure and gravity fed.

Thanks-
Adam

On Mar 7, 1:27 pm, "RayV" wrote:
On Mar 7, 1:06 pm, wrote:





In planning for our kitchen remodel, my wife and i have decided to
replace our kitchen cabinet doors and refinish the existing cabinetry.

Rockler's custom order doors are $$$$$$$, as are many others.

For about $500 I can outfit myself with the tools I need to complete
this job - rail/stile bits, raised panel bit, etc etc.

I'm a newbie at this sort of woodwork, but i have experience in trim
carpentry and feel confident that i can take my time and do a good job
with it.

I do have a few questions though. Go easy on me!

-I'm assuming I need some sort of mechanical fastener for the frame of
the cabinet door. What should I look at for this, or will a good glue
like Titebond or Gorilla work?

-This one really sounds lame... What thickness wood should I look at
for the frame and the panel? It seems, from my research, that 7/8 is
the most common frame thickness, but I can't figure out what thickness
panel to use.

Thanks for any help. I'd much rather do this myself (and accumulate
some new tools!) than outsource it.

Adam
Atlanta, GA

I'm a newbie as well and have made raised panel doors.

I just glued the frame together and they have held up to two toddlers
fine for 6 months.

The frame is usually 7/8 to 1 inch and the panel 3/4 but they don't
have to be. The reason for the thicker frame is so the outermost part
of the panel will be flush or co-planar with the front of the frame.
You could make both out of 3/4 and have a fine door.

I would reconsider undertaking this project. Not only do you need a
router, table, and bits in addition to tools you already have. You
also have to buy the stock thicknessed or buy a planer. You will also
need a way to join boards for the panels including planing them
straight. Finding the stock could be a problem in itslef and very
expensive. Then you have to stain & finish the doors. While
certainly doable the cost to DIY could easily be higher than having
them shipped to your door.

I bought our cabinets from Lowes and while not 'fine furniture' they
are as well made as any I have seen in a house and I could not have
bought the wood with the $5K I paid them.

Here is the website of the company that either made or shipped the
cabinets to my house.http://www.shenandoahcabinetry.com/
A real pleasure to deal with, quickly replaced they few pieces that
were damaged in shipping and lots of trim pieces available that you
would also have to make/stain.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Woodcraft offers a class in "making a raised panel door".
I know Atlanta has one or more Woodcraft..

I would also give Highland Woodworking a call. They offer
many classes and I believe one of them is building a
basic cabinet.

The doors are glued together. No fastners.

The vast majority are made with 3/4" material. The raised
panel sets are designed around 3/4" stock. Getting and
preparing the stock is your single biggest challenge.

The stock "must" be flat and straight. This "normally"
requires a jointer and a planer.

You will also need a fairly large collection of clamps.


wrote:

In planning for our kitchen remodel, my wife and i have decided to
replace our kitchen cabinet doors and refinish the existing cabinetry.

Rockler's custom order doors are $$$$$$$, as are many others.

For about $500 I can outfit myself with the tools I need to complete
this job - rail/stile bits, raised panel bit, etc etc.

I'm a newbie at this sort of woodwork, but i have experience in trim
carpentry and feel confident that i can take my time and do a good job
with it.

I do have a few questions though. Go easy on me!

-I'm assuming I need some sort of mechanical fastener for the frame of
the cabinet door. What should I look at for this, or will a good glue
like Titebond or Gorilla work?

-This one really sounds lame... What thickness wood should I look at
for the frame and the panel? It seems, from my research, that 7/8 is
the most common frame thickness, but I can't figure out what thickness
panel to use.

Thanks for any help. I'd much rather do this myself (and accumulate
some new tools!) than outsource it.

Adam
Atlanta, GA

wrote in message
ups.com...
In planning for our kitchen remodel, my wife and i have decided to
replace our kitchen cabinet doors and refinish the existing cabinetry.

Rockler's custom order doors are $$$$$$$, as are many others.

For about $500 I can outfit myself with the tools I need to complete
this job - rail/stile bits, raised panel bit, etc etc.

I'm a newbie at this sort of woodwork, but i have experience in trim
carpentry and feel confident that i can take my time and do a good job
with it.

I do have a few questions though. Go easy on me!

-I'm assuming I need some sort of mechanical fastener for the frame of
the cabinet door. What should I look at for this, or will a good glue
like Titebond or Gorilla work?


Titebond will work just fine.
This entertainment center is held together entirely with titebond. The only
mechanical fasteners in it are for the hinges *and* to fasten the 1/4"
plywood to the two side units where you see the speakers.
http://tinyurl.com/27u2zt


-This one really sounds lame... What thickness wood should I look at
for the frame and the panel? It seems, from my research, that 7/8 is
the most common frame thickness, but I can't figure out what thickness
panel to use.


The frames ("rails and stiles") are made of 3/4" Oak. While I did use a
thickness planer to plane 4/4 stock to the thickness I thought appropriate,
you can purchase 3/4" finished oak, maple, birch, etc., but it will be much
more expensive than the unfinished product. S2S = surfaced 2 sides.
The panels are 1/4" oak plywood. (nominal; actual thickness varies from one
source to another, be sure to get the proper size router bit to make the
grooves into which the plywood fits.)
http://eagleamerica.com/product.asp?...cd2=1173296717


Thanks for any help. I'd much rather do this myself (and accumulate
some new tools!) than outsource it.

Adam
Atlanta, GA

Glad to be of help anytime.
Max

wrote:
In planning for our kitchen remodel, my wife and i have decided to
replace our kitchen cabinet doors and refinish the existing
cabinetry.

Rockler's custom order doors are $$$$$$$, as are many others.

For about $500 I can outfit myself with the tools I need to complete
this job - rail/stile bits, raised panel bit, etc etc.

I'm a newbie at this sort of woodwork, but i have experience in trim
carpentry and feel confident that i can take my time and do a good
job with it.

I do have a few questions though. Go easy on me!

-I'm assuming I need some sort of mechanical fastener for the frame
of the cabinet door. What should I look at for this, or will a good
glue like Titebond or Gorilla work?

Just glue. And not Gorilla (or any other urethane). The rails have
tongues that fit into matching mortices on the stiles, all
accomplished with the rail/stile router bit(s).
_______________________

-This one really sounds lame... What thickness wood should I look at
for the frame and the panel? It seems, from my research, that 7/8 is
the most common frame thickness, but I can't figure out what
thickness panel to use.

Where have you see 7/8" frames for cabinet doors? The standard is
3/4. The easiest way to get that is to buy 4/4 rough and mill it to
what you want.

The rail/stile bits will normally make a 1/4" groove for the panel.
That means that panels can be any thickness from 1/4" on up as long as
there is a tongue to fit the frame grooves. They need not be flush
with either front or back of the frame. The panels could even stand
proud of the frame if that should be what you want. They could stand
proud on front and/or back though if on the back they would have to
clear the cabinet face frame.

It is always useful to have lots of clamps; however, it is unlikely
that you are going to be gluing up a dozen doors at a time. About the
most you would need for a kitchen cabinet sized door is four. If you
had eight - 1/2" pipe clamps are fine - you could glue up & clamp door
#1 then door #2. Have a cup of coffee and you can unclamp door #1 and
use those clamps for door #3 then unclamp door #2 and use those for
door #4. Have another coffee and repeat. The clamps really only need
to be on for 45 minutes or so though you shouldn't stress the doors
for 24 hours.

Actually, you wouldn't need *any* clamps per se. Affix 8 - 6-8" long
pieces of 2x4 to a piece of 3/4 ply so that an assembled frame will
fit loosely between them then use wedge pairs between .the 2x4 pieces
and frame to provide pressure to the frame. The 2x4 pieces are at
right angles to each other near but not at where the frame corners
will be so that you can manipulate the wedges. The corners of the ply
are best lopped off. You can set something like this up so you have
access to the bottom side of the frame so you can take care of any
glue squeeze out.

Back to panels. No where is it written that panels have to be solid
wood. They can be 1/4" hardwood plywood too...easy to make and
relatively inexpensive. If you should plan to paint the panels, you
could use 1/4" tempered masonite. As an alternative to paint (always
a PITA) the panels could be covered with wall paper.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Adam" wrote in message

My gut is telling me I probably should reconsider....

Pretty well done it all when it comes to kitchen cabinets, more than once.
Two examples are on my website below, so you're getting "BTDT" and no
conjecture.

The reality of the situation for wooden doors, even for those who do it for
money, is that it is generally cheaper, quicker, and ends with a higher
quality product, if you can find a local shop that specializes in doors.

Why? - simply because, as an individual paying full retail price, the
finding and milling of the wood, not discounting waste, warpage, etc., is
often more expensive than having them made in a speciality shop to start
with.

Even for those of us who are practiced in setting up and have the equipment
to do a door and drawer front run for a complete kitchen, it rarely makes
economic sense to do so in this day and age.

There is absolutely nothing shameful about buiding the cabinets and
outsourcing the doors for anyone who works on a business/business like
footing.

What about MDF cabinet doors?

I would recommend the mdf approach as long as you want to:

1. paint your doors
2. DIY inexpensively
3. Perhaps have another option for drawer fronts
4. Use Euro 35mm door cup hinge system

I've heard of some problems with them,
how much truth is in it?

mdf is stable, and when properly sealed, primed and painted, makes a very
nice door for very little cash outlay. Not the "cachet" of a well made
wooden door, but acceptable for most folks who need to be cost conscious.

Would they be acceptable for use in a kitchen with care?

Absolutely. The stability of mdf alone is worth the price of admission when
compared to some of the problems even the experienced can run into with
doors not remaining flat for any number of reasons.

If you really have the itch to do the doors yourself, it would be a
relatively cheap way for you to find out with a 2 x 4 sheet of 3/4" mdf, a
router and table, and a collection of bits.

Just cut the mdf to the dimension of a door, route a profile on the front
and/or edges, and see if you like/can live with what you have wrought.

If not throw it away and try again ... cheap prototyping is one of the
benefits of MDF.

I would get them raw and finish (paint) them myself. Does anyone have
good info on priming/painting MDF? I hear it can be tricky. I do have
a spray setup - HVLP pressure and gravity fed.

When used for doors, mdf is usually sealed with glue size, shellac,
spackling slurry, or somesuch; lightly sanded; then primed and painted with
one or more coats.

Now ... what are you going to do about drawer fronts to match?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

Snip

When used for doors, mdf is usually sealed with glue size, shellac,
spackling slurry, or somesuch; lightly sanded; then primed and painted
with
one or more coats.


I'll second the use of MDF. I have a 3 time customer that I have built/cut
out and hinged MDF cabinet doors for. Hs spray painted the doors himself
and was pleased enough to use MDF 2 more times when sold and moved in to
other houses.

I'll also second the prep advised above.

Consider also that MDF is heavy, this is no time to scrimp on the hinges. I
prefer the Euro style hinges that fit inside a hole on the back side of the
door and add much support to that union.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Adam" wrote in message

My gut is telling me I probably should reconsider....

Pretty well done it all when it comes to kitchen cabinets, more than once.
Two examples are on my website below, so you're getting "BTDT" and no
conjecture.

The reality of the situation for wooden doors, even for those who do it
for
money, is that it is generally cheaper, quicker, and ends with a higher
quality product, if you can find a local shop that specializes in doors.

Why? - simply because, as an individual paying full retail price, the
finding and milling of the wood, not discounting waste, warpage, etc., is
often more expensive than having them made in a speciality shop to start
with.

Even for those of us who are practiced in setting up and have the
equipment
to do a door and drawer front run for a complete kitchen, it rarely makes
economic sense to do so in this day and age.

There is absolutely nothing shameful about buiding the cabinets and
outsourcing the doors for anyone who works on a business/business like
footing.

What about MDF cabinet doors?

I would recommend the mdf approach as long as you want to:

1. paint your doors
2. DIY inexpensively
3. Perhaps have another option for drawer fronts
4. Use Euro 35mm door cup hinge system

I've heard of some problems with them,
how much truth is in it?

mdf is stable, and when properly sealed, primed and painted, makes a very
nice door for very little cash outlay. Not the "cachet" of a well made
wooden door, but acceptable for most folks who need to be cost conscious.

Would they be acceptable for use in a kitchen with care?

Absolutely. The stability of mdf alone is worth the price of admission
when
compared to some of the problems even the experienced can run into with
doors not remaining flat for any number of reasons.

If you really have the itch to do the doors yourself, it would be a
relatively cheap way for you to find out with a 2 x 4 sheet of 3/4" mdf, a
router and table, and a collection of bits.

Just cut the mdf to the dimension of a door, route a profile on the front
and/or edges, and see if you like/can live with what you have wrought.

If not throw it away and try again ... cheap prototyping is one of the
benefits of MDF.

I would get them raw and finish (paint) them myself. Does anyone have
good info on priming/painting MDF? I hear it can be tricky. I do have
a spray setup - HVLP pressure and gravity fed.

When used for doors, mdf is usually sealed with glue size, shellac,
spackling slurry, or somesuch; lightly sanded; then primed and painted
with
one or more coats.

Now ... what are you going to do about drawer fronts to match?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

This little sink cabinet is made of MDF. The material is easy to work (use a
mask) and takes a finish nicely. European type hinges are almost a "must".

http://tinyurl.com/27jeak

The drawer fronts can be MDF and attached by clamping them to the front of
the drawer to align them and fastening with screws.
I would use Baltic Birch plywood to make the drawers. There are several
joining methods for building the "boxes" (drawers).

Max

thanks for the info everyone.

i actually found a place that will mill custom mdf doors for me on the
cheap, i will probably go that route.

anyone have a source for bulk euro hinges? typically they are fairly
expensive... i need about 120.

i'll post up some photos etc when im done!

thanks for the info everyone.

i actually found a place that will mill custom mdf doors for me on the
cheap, i will probably go that route.

anyone have a source for bulk euro hinges? typically they are fairly
expensive... i need about 120.

i'll post up some photos etc when im done!

Adam:
not sure where you live, but... there is a listing on Dallas/Ft Worth
"Craigs List" for 100 + Euro Hinges. Selling for $1.50 per. Listed on
03-06-07, so should be still available. Not sure why, but they are listed
under tools. Go to the search bar and type in "hinges"
HTH

Bill
"Adam" wrote in message
oups.com...
thanks for the info everyone.

i actually found a place that will mill custom mdf doors for me on the
cheap, i will probably go that route.

anyone have a source for bulk euro hinges? typically they are fairly
expensive... i need about 120.

i'll post up some photos etc when im done!

That depends on face frame or "euro"(no face frame) cabinets:

http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/Gr...3B%20Concealed

You can get by cheaper but NOT better than Blum.


Adam wrote:

thanks for the info everyone.

i actually found a place that will mill custom mdf doors for me on the
cheap, i will probably go that route.

anyone have a source for bulk euro hinges? typically they are fairly
expensive... i need about 120.

i'll post up some photos etc when im done!

That's almost 60 doors given two per door. Bulk prices are
generally available for large purchases.

MDF is a very reasonable approach for "budget" kitchens
"if" they receive a "first class" paint job. A badly painted
door is a awful thing to look at for any period of time.

An entire kitchen badly painted would be very painful.

Are the divorce lawyers cheap in your part of the country ???


Adam wrote:

thanks for the info everyone.

i actually found a place that will mill custom mdf doors for me on the
cheap, i will probably go that route.

anyone have a source for bulk euro hinges? typically they are fairly
expensive... i need about 120.

i'll post up some photos etc when im done!

On Mar 12, 3:59 pm, Pat Barber wrote:
That's almost 60 doors given two per door. Bulk prices are
generally available for large purchases.

MDF is a very reasonable approach for "budget" kitchens
"if" they receive a "first class" paint job. A badly painted
door is a awful thing to look at for any period of time.

An entire kitchen badly painted would be very painful.

Are the divorce lawyers cheap in your part of the country ???


lol, nothing's worth that the wife wouldn't divorce me over
something so insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

now i think she wants to stick with the slab doors and a nice paint
job. sounds good to me, it's most definitely cheaper!

I do not understand the fear of making doors... time consuming yes,
but difficult no. Buy a really food set of bits from Freud or CMT...
Setting up the height on the rail and stile bits should not be hard
and once you do it, run some scrap and keep those pieces, they will be
your set up blocks for future use. If you are going to paint them go
with 3/4 poplar 2.5 inch wide rail and stile. buy a sheet of 3/4 mdf
and your ready to go. If you dont care about the panel being 1/8 proud
of the frame then get a bit set without a backcutter. If you want it
flush you still use 3/4 thick material but the backcutter on the bit
produces a panel flush with the frame.

the freud bits have instructions that a kid could follow. cut your
rails and stiles to length, run them through the appropriate bit on a
router table, cut your panels to size and run them over teh panel
raiser...

one thing though. MDF produces the finest most annoying choking dust
imaginable. do it outside or have a great dust collector.

the nice part is that mdf is great for painting. the area which is
milled will need to be sized.... mix 1 part glue and 1 part water and
brus it on the milled areas. let it dry and sand it. itll come out
smooth that way.

Youll also want a bit for the edg of the door. just search door edge
bit on google. youll also need a 35mm forstner bit if you will use
euro hinges.

Put it this way, with poplar and mdf you can ake very nice painted
doors for a fraction of the cost of buying them. www.walllumber.com
sells mdf doors for a minimum of $24 each.

the bits will run 150-170 for the rail stile and panel raiser, 40 for
te edge bit and 15 for the forstner.

Of course if you dont have a router table and dont plan on buying or
making one, forget it - its a must unless you want to try it on a
table saw.

for paint use ben moore satin impervo.