I have built a few dozen cabinet doors for our kitchen, garage, and
miscellaneous cabinets. Unfortunately, about half of the doors I have built
over the last few years have warped slightly. So two doors that meet in the
middle don't sit flat next to each other anymore. They still work fine, it
just looks "unprofessional".

I like working with regular #2 pine, for the availability, price, and a bit
of a "rustic" appearance. I've used it for cabinets, face frames, drawers,
and drawer fronts. The doors are the only items giving me trouble.

The doors are simple frame and panel contruction. Just a 1/4" groove all
around with a flat panel.

To make the frames, I bought 1x6's and 1x8's, then ripped them into 2" wide
boards. I selectively cut between knots and chose the straightest grained
lumber for the frames.

Most of the doors have solid panels glued up from individual boards, while
other's have plywood panels. I've tried both 1/4" and 1/2" thick panels,
and the warping is about the same with either.

The doors were flat when I finished them, so I know it wasn't a clamping
problem. In fact, they were flat when installed, and only warped after
being on the cabinets a few weeks.

I don't have a moisture meter, but the pine boards were kiln dried when I
bought them, and most have been stored in my dry garage for a year or more.

Anyway, I'm curious why so many of my doors are warping weeks after they
have been installed?

Is it because I only applied finish to the outside, leaving the inside
unfinished?

Is pine just a poor choice for door frames?

More importantly, is there anything I can do to get the doors to sit flat
now that they have warped?

Thanks,

Anthony

"HerHusband" wrote in message

Assuming you are the guy who has posted here before using that handle, and
not a troll ... although it is hard to tell from the below.

I like working with regular #2 pine

You got what you paid for ... one of the most dimensionally unstable woods
around.

Anyway, I'm curious why so many of my doors are warping weeks after they
have been installed?

See above and below.

Is it because I only applied finish to the outside, leaving the inside
unfinished?

Taking direct aim at your _other_ foot, by not finishing both sides you have
guaranteed instability with your choice of one of the most unstable
species/type of an inherently unstable medium.

Is pine just a poor choice for door frames?

That type of pine certainly is.

More importantly, is there anything I can do to get the doors to sit flat
now that they have warped?

Build new ones. As you've noted, one of the biggest mistakes a new
woodworker can make is spending his time working with cheap materials and
expecting it to last. Even some of us old codgers still fall into that trap.
DAMHIKT

Wood is an unstable medium at best. If you want lasting results, use
material, and joinery and finishing methods, that will give you a chance of
not wasting your time.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06

Swingman wrote:
"HerHusband" wrote in message

Assuming you are the guy who has posted here before using
that handle, and not a troll ... although it is hard to
tell from the below.

I like working with regular #2 pine

You got what you paid for ... one of the most dimensionally
unstable woods around.

Anyway, I'm curious why so many of my doors are warping
weeks after they have been installed?

See above and below.

Is it because I only applied finish to the outside,
leaving the inside unfinished?

Taking direct aim at your _other_ foot, by not finishing
both sides you have guaranteed instability with your choice
of one of the most unstable species/type of an inherently
unstable medium.

Is pine just a poor choice for door frames?

That type of pine certainly is.

More importantly, is there anything I can do to get the
doors to sit flat now that they have warped?

Build new ones. As you've noted, one of the biggest
mistakes a new woodworker can make is spending his time
working with cheap materials and expecting it to last. Even
some of us old codgers still fall into that trap. DAMHIKT

Wood is an unstable medium at best. If you want lasting
results, use material, and joinery and finishing methods,
that will give you a chance of not wasting your time.

There is something "familiar" about your post, as Swing said,
but, rather than letting paranoia win:

How bad IS the warping? Noticeable to you or to everyone? Just
looking for scale here as to how badly the warping is.

I've found two things that can -hide- slight warping pretty
readily. I assume you've used felt pads or some such to prevent
the slamming sounds? Whether you have or not, they can often
make up for slight warps by adding/removing them in strategic
locations. That won't help of course if they're flush-fits and
not overlaps, but it did work well for me. My worst critic even
agreed the alignments looked fine, not that I led the question to
any particular thing though; I kept it open ended to get a wider
response.

Sometimes it can even be the hinges themselves; did you keep
packages of hinges per door? Or just mix & match? They'll be
pretty minimal misalignments though. Sometimes a very thin
spacer can be used too on the hinges, in the non-visible area of
the hinge.

Are you sure the doors are warped and that the frame didn't
respond badly somehow? The frame has to be as good as the doors,
of course. Weight, lots of things can stress the frames over
time and misalign things.

If you can't find success with a bit of fudging, it might be time
to remake them, and this time be certain you finish both sides,
and at the same time. All 6 sides need to be sealed, BTW. Top,
bottom, left, right, front and back.
Pine's a poor choice but I use it too, usually effectively and
I'm happy with all my results except for some tub room cabinets
with wide doors; visibly warped there, but they're not getting
fixed anytime soon; some of the shapes were a bitch to create in
there - a very customized areag.

HTH,
Pop

Assuming you are the guy who has posted here before using
that handle, and not a troll

Nope, I'm not a troll, though it is entirely possible I may have asked the
same question in the past. I'm rather forgetful these days...

I've also asked a lot of questions about door construction over the last
few years. So, it's probably all blending into one big annoyance now...

Most of our cabinets have been in place for nearly two years and I've
learned to live with the warping. But the doors warped on a cabinet I built
for my in-laws last month, so this renewed my interest in the warping
situation.

#2 Pine
one of the most dimensionally unstable woods around.

I use it with great results on lots of projects. It has only been an issue
with the door frames.

by not finishing both sides you have guaranteed instability

Yeah, I figured I probably caused some of my own problems by not finishing
the back sides. Haste won out over common sense...

Is pine just a poor choice for door frames?
That type of pine certainly is.

I bought a more expensive straight grained pine for some armoire doors, and
they warped the same way.

Build new ones.

I've toyed with the idea, but I'd have to rebuild 20 or so doors. It's not
a big enough problem to warrant all that work.

How bad IS the warping? Noticeable to you or to everyone?

By "warping" I mean more of a "twist" to the door. The hinged side sit's
flat, of course, but either the top or bottom corner of the opposite side
sits above the door frame.

The severity varies from NO warping on many doors, to about 1/8" off the
cabinet frame on the rest.

Ironically, the worst warping occurred on the newest doors I built for my
in-laws. Those sit about 1/4" off the door frame. There are only two of
those doors, so I could rebuild those easy enough. But, the cabinet is only
temporary until we do some remodeling, so it's not worth the effort at this
point.

I don't think most people notice the warping, as I'm usually the one who
points it out. Even my wife didn't seem overly concerned. But as the
builder, I think it makes an otherwise perfect job look bad.

I think it's more pronounced because the doors warp in opposite directions.
In other words, the left hand door warps out at the top, while the right
hand door warps out at the bottom.

On my daughters armoire's, the doors are large enough that I use magnetic
catches to "hold" the doors shut flat, despite the warping. But, the
smaller doors are too stiff to force flat that way.

I assume you've used felt pads or some such

Yep, top and bottom of each door. They came with the hinges I ordered.

did you keep packages of hinges per door?

Yes, I used variable overlay hinges I ordered from Rockler. One package per
door.

Are you sure the doors are warped and that the frame didn't
respond badly somehow? The frame has to be as good as the doors

The frames are in great shape, nice and flat. It's clearly limited to the
door frames.

All 6 sides need to be sealed, BTW.

We did five... Live and learn...

Pine's a poor choice but I use it too

Our house is filled with pine walls, cedar ceilings, and pine furniture.
The pine was a natural choice to go with the "rustic" nature of our house.

I'm happy with all my results except for some tub room cabinets
with wide doors; visibly warped there, but they're not getting
fixed anytime soon

Same here. The warping is annoying, but not worth the trouble or expense to
rebuild. Otherwise, I'm happy with the way the cabinets and doors turned
out. Here's a few pics of the cabinet doors in question.

www.mountain-software.com/door1.jpg
www.mountain-software.com/door2.jpg
www.mountain-software.com/door3.jpg
www.mountain-software.com/door4.jpg
www.mountain-software.com/door5.jpg
www.mountain-software.com/door6.jpg

The last cabinet is the one I built for my in-laws. Quick and dirty
construction, nothing fancy. I actually made it out of scraps I had laying
around, sized to use the lumber I had on hand. I had to tear out their
old carport cabinet when I was doing some electrical work, so I banged this
one together as a quick fix for the short term.

The panels for my garage cabinet doors were made from T&G cedar scraps left
over from our house ceilings.

The rest of the cabinet doors use panels made with T&G pine scraps left
over from our master suite. Rip off the tongues and grooves, glue into
panels, plane smooth, and cut to size. Nothing goes to waste around here.


Anyway, it sounds like my biggest mistake was not finishing the backs of
the cabinet doors too. I'll know for next time...

Thanks,

Anthony

HEY! You stole my designs!! Except for the vaulted ceiling and
corner window, those first three could be my own house! OUT, OUT
DAMNED SPOT! :-}
Oh, and our floors are a little lighter. Even the same drawer
fronts, for cryin' out loud! Then again I guess it's pretty
"standard" stuff, eh? You can't buy quality like that, even with
a couple extra felt pads to align them.
Under that corner window: Any chance that's a tilt-out waste
bin? If it is, then I KNOW you stole my designs! ;0 Too bad
we're not neighborsg.

Regards,

Pop

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
I have built a few dozen cabinet doors for our kitchen, garage, and
miscellaneous cabinets. Unfortunately, about half of the doors I have
built
over the last few years have warped slightly. So two doors that meet in
the
middle don't sit flat next to each other anymore. They still work fine, it
just looks "unprofessional".

I like working with regular #2 pine, for the availability, price, and a
bit
of a "rustic" appearance. I've used it for cabinets, face frames, drawers,
and drawer fronts. The doors are the only items giving me trouble.

The doors are simple frame and panel contruction. Just a 1/4" groove all
around with a flat panel.

To make the frames, I bought 1x6's and 1x8's, then ripped them into 2"
wide
boards. I selectively cut between knots and chose the straightest grained
lumber for the frames.

Most of the doors have solid panels glued up from individual boards, while
other's have plywood panels. I've tried both 1/4" and 1/2" thick panels,
and the warping is about the same with either.

The doors were flat when I finished them, so I know it wasn't a clamping
problem. In fact, they were flat when installed, and only warped after
being on the cabinets a few weeks.

I don't have a moisture meter, but the pine boards were kiln dried when I
bought them, and most have been stored in my dry garage for a year or
more.

Anyway, I'm curious why so many of my doors are warping weeks after they
have been installed?

Is it because I only applied finish to the outside, leaving the inside
unfinished?

Is pine just a poor choice for door frames?

More importantly, is there anything I can do to get the doors to sit flat
now that they have warped?

Thanks,

Anthony

You might try dampening the unfinished side and twisting them back into
compliance. Then finish the backs. A friend did this when he made some
doors in my shop here in SoCal them moved them to Arizona. He had some
success and some just were too stubborn.

Dave

Pop,

HEY! You stole my designs!! Except for the vaulted ceiling and
corner window, those first three could be my own house!

Too funny... We designed and built our own house after years of scribbling
different plans on paper. As far as I know, the design came from my own
mind???

our floors are a little lighter.

Our floors are prefinished Australian Cypress. Beautiful wood, kind of
smells like lemon when you cut it, but it dulled my miter saw blade
quickly. It also has a tendency to split.

Our ceilings are 1x6 T&G cedar. We bought #3 lumber to keep costs low,
cutting out the loose knots and splits. Pieces that were too short for the
ceiling became door panels in our garage. We used the rest as firewood for
a couple of years.

Even the same drawer fronts, for cryin' out loud!

Yep, cut a #2 pine board to width and length, then round over the edge and
sand it down. Doesn't get much easier...

Under that corner window: Any chance that's a tilt-out waste
bin? If it is, then I KNOW you stole my designs!

Nope, just space for the garbage can, and dish soap.

Take care,

Anthony

You might try dampening the unfinished side and twisting them back
into compliance. Then finish the backs. A friend did this when he
made some doors in my shop here in SoCal them moved them to Arizona.
He had some success and some just were too stubborn.

Interesting... I'll keep it in mind, though at this point, it's not worth
the trouble.

Anthony