Is it really that tough to make and install an inset cabinet door?

Granted, I've not yet done any inset cab doors, just overlay. Yet, I am
puzzled by the detailed article in the current FWW (176) on how to install
an inset cab door. It looks more like "How to fix a bad inset cab door
situation".

The author starts out saying, "As with any door fitting, the process is
easiest if the door and the opening are reasonably square and free of twist
to start with." That makes sense, even to me. He goes on to say, "I build
the doors just a hair (no more than 1/32 in.) larger than the case
opening." Considering that he wants a finished 1/32" gap all around, that
means he builds a door 3/32" too large and works down from there.

For those of you w/o the mag, the 6-page article and photos show him using
a TS sled to trim the bottom of a cab door at a very slight angle to fix
for square w/ the opening, using shims to determine how much needs to be
trimmed for size, and then trimming the other sides with a jointer and TS
for fit.

(BTW, did you ever think that maybe Formica started out as a shim company
and one day someone said, "Hey, y'know if we made this stuff in large
sheets maybe we could sell it for countertops."?)

Considering that the author says that he has hung "hundreds of inset
cabinet doors" and that his article is in FWW, I figure there may be
something to his methods. Yet, he seems quite clearly to be saying that he
cannot build a "square" cab opening and door. OTOH, that seems like a heck
of an admission. OTOH, I can imagine that even a small out-of-square on
the door or cab can make the gaps uneven -- and the key is the gaps.

Is it really this tough? Is this why most cabs have overlay doors? Is it
really good SOP to construct panel doors oversized? What about a
double-door cab?

I may have to rethink my new kitchen plans. Either that or start getting
in shape for lots of running up and down the stairs from the kitchen to the
basement shop. Comments solicited. TIA. -- Igor

igor wrote:
Is it really that tough to make and install an inset cabinet door?

the problem is that ANY out of squareness is readily magnified by the
fact that the gap

Think of this. Let's say your cabinet door is 20" high, to be out of
square by 1/16" you only have to be off 0.2 degrees.

"igor" wrote in message
...
Is it really that tough to make and install an inset cabinet door?

This is kind of weird but I've never made anything but an inset door. I
read the fww article and thought they were pretty anal about it. I guess it
isn't anal if you build your face frame out of square and need to fit the
door to the frame. I guess I haven't had the issue surface yet.
SH


Granted, I've not yet done any inset cab doors, just overlay. Yet, I am
puzzled by the detailed article in the current FWW (176) on how to install
an inset cab door. It looks more like "How to fix a bad inset cab door
situation".

The author starts out saying, "As with any door fitting, the process is
easiest if the door and the opening are reasonably square and free of
twist
to start with." That makes sense, even to me. He goes on to say, "I
build
the doors just a hair (no more than 1/32 in.) larger than the case
opening." Considering that he wants a finished 1/32" gap all around, that
means he builds a door 3/32" too large and works down from there.

For those of you w/o the mag, the 6-page article and photos show him using
a TS sled to trim the bottom of a cab door at a very slight angle to fix
for square w/ the opening, using shims to determine how much needs to be
trimmed for size, and then trimming the other sides with a jointer and TS
for fit.

(BTW, did you ever think that maybe Formica started out as a shim company
and one day someone said, "Hey, y'know if we made this stuff in large
sheets maybe we could sell it for countertops."?)

Considering that the author says that he has hung "hundreds of inset
cabinet doors" and that his article is in FWW, I figure there may be
something to his methods. Yet, he seems quite clearly to be saying that
he
cannot build a "square" cab opening and door. OTOH, that seems like a
heck
of an admission. OTOH, I can imagine that even a small out-of-square on
the door or cab can make the gaps uneven -- and the key is the gaps.

Is it really this tough? Is this why most cabs have overlay doors? Is it
really good SOP to construct panel doors oversized? What about a
double-door cab?

I may have to rethink my new kitchen plans. Either that or start getting
in shape for lots of running up and down the stairs from the kitchen to
the
basement shop. Comments solicited. TIA. -- Igor

"igor" wrote in message
...

Is it really that tough to make and install an inset cabinet door?

Igor, IMHO these doors arnot hard AS LONG AS the opening and door are
square.
A few hints I have learned through the years.

1. Like the article says build the door slightly over sized. I do this on
over lay doors also as I prefer to recut all four sides again to clean up
glue squeeze out and make the door the perfect size after glue up.
2. As we all know sometimes the stiles and some times the rails tend to
warp a bit. If the offending rail or stile bows outward I like to back
bevel the offending outer side edge a couple of degrees such that the door
stile front edge to side angle is less than 90 degrees. This leaves an edge
on the corner that is easily hand planed slightly to remove any less than
perfect clearances and give a consistant width shadow line.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:26:29 GMT, igor wrote:

Is it really that tough to make and install an inset cabinet door?

Granted, I've not yet done any inset cab doors, just overlay. Yet, I am
puzzled by the detailed article in the current FWW (176) on how to install
an inset cab door. It looks more like "How to fix a bad inset cab door
situation".

The author starts out saying, "As with any door fitting, the process is
easiest if the door and the opening are reasonably square and free of twist
to start with." That makes sense, even to me. He goes on to say, "I build
the doors just a hair (no more than 1/32 in.) larger than the case
opening." Considering that he wants a finished 1/32" gap all around, that
means he builds a door 3/32" too large and works down from there.

For those of you w/o the mag, the 6-page article and photos show him using
a TS sled to trim the bottom of a cab door at a very slight angle to fix
for square w/ the opening, using shims to determine how much needs to be
trimmed for size, and then trimming the other sides with a jointer and TS
for fit.

(BTW, did you ever think that maybe Formica started out as a shim company
and one day someone said, "Hey, y'know if we made this stuff in large
sheets maybe we could sell it for countertops."?)

Considering that the author says that he has hung "hundreds of inset
cabinet doors" and that his article is in FWW, I figure there may be
something to his methods. Yet, he seems quite clearly to be saying that he
cannot build a "square" cab opening and door. OTOH, that seems like a heck
of an admission. OTOH, I can imagine that even a small out-of-square on
the door or cab can make the gaps uneven -- and the key is the gaps.

Is it really this tough? Is this why most cabs have overlay doors? Is it
really good SOP to construct panel doors oversized? What about a
double-door cab?

I may have to rethink my new kitchen plans. Either that or start getting
in shape for lots of running up and down the stairs from the kitchen to the
basement shop. Comments solicited. TIA. -- Igor


I'll have to look for that issue, Thanks!
I allow anywhere from a 1/16 to an 1/8 over finished size on my
stiles and rails (partly so I don't have to worry so much about
dinging an edge during glue up or whatever). One thing I wonder about,
did the article talk about tolerances in the gap varying by season?
You have to allow a little extra in the Winter where I am or else in
the Summer you'll be called back to try out your new plane !

Lenny

Hi Igor,

Just another thought. Sometimes I think that it is easier
to build the face frame around the door. I built a storage cabinet
for the shop that measures about 72" H x 96" W. After attaching
the face frames and fitting the first 64" x 22" inset door, I thought
to myself that it would be a lot easier to hang the doors first and
then fit the face frames around them since the doors were so
large and hard to handle on the jointer (or plane).

On normal cabinet sized doors, I don't find it too difficult to
fit the inset doors, but I do have trouble with getting the
hinges placed exactly where I want them. Using the Euro
type hinges help, but if you want the classic look with
a mortised hinge set into the door and face frame, it is
time consuming IMHO. I usually attach the hinges first,
making the door as snug as possible, then back off the
door size with the jointer until all reveals are equal -
I use a 3d nail for my "spacers". This method involves
quite a few intstall/remove/joint operations, so it does
get to be tedious after a few doors!

Lou

In article , igor
wrote:

Is it really that tough to make and install an inset cabinet door?

Granted, I've not yet done any inset cab doors, just overlay. Yet, I am
puzzled by the detailed article in the current FWW (176) on how to install
an inset cab door. It looks more like "How to fix a bad inset cab door
situation".

The author starts out saying, "As with any door fitting, the process is
easiest if the door and the opening are reasonably square and free of twist
to start with." That makes sense, even to me. He goes on to say, "I build
the doors just a hair (no more than 1/32 in.) larger than the case
opening." Considering that he wants a finished 1/32" gap all around, that
means he builds a door 3/32" too large and works down from there.

For those of you w/o the mag, the 6-page article and photos show him using
a TS sled to trim the bottom of a cab door at a very slight angle to fix
for square w/ the opening, using shims to determine how much needs to be
trimmed for size, and then trimming the other sides with a jointer and TS
for fit.

(BTW, did you ever think that maybe Formica started out as a shim company
and one day someone said, "Hey, y'know if we made this stuff in large
sheets maybe we could sell it for countertops."?)

Considering that the author says that he has hung "hundreds of inset
cabinet doors" and that his article is in FWW, I figure there may be
something to his methods. Yet, he seems quite clearly to be saying that he
cannot build a "square" cab opening and door. OTOH, that seems like a heck
of an admission. OTOH, I can imagine that even a small out-of-square on
the door or cab can make the gaps uneven -- and the key is the gaps.

Is it really this tough? Is this why most cabs have overlay doors? Is it
really good SOP to construct panel doors oversized? What about a
double-door cab?

I may have to rethink my new kitchen plans. Either that or start getting
in shape for lots of running up and down the stairs from the kitchen to the
basement shop. Comments solicited. TIA. -- Igor

Leon wrote:
"igor" wrote in message
...


Is it really that tough to make and install an inset cabinet door?


Igor, IMHO these doors arnot hard AS LONG AS the opening and door are
square.
A few hints I have learned through the years.

1. Like the article says build the door slightly over sized. I do this on
over lay doors also as I prefer to recut all four sides again to clean up
glue squeeze out and make the door the perfect size after glue up.
2. As we all know sometimes the stiles and some times the rails tend to
warp a bit. If the offending rail or stile bows outward I like to back
bevel the offending outer side edge a couple of degrees such that the door
stile front edge to side angle is less than 90 degrees. This leaves an edge
on the corner that is easily hand planed slightly to remove any less than
perfect clearances and give a consistant width shadow line.





Leon

I learned to do the same thing from a very good eastern European
cabinetmaker when I was a kid, but on drawer fronts. Bevelling makes it
easy to fit the drawer and also eliminates binding as only the very
front surface of the drawer front touches the case.

I read that article, and I suspect he doesn't have to do much 'fix up'
on most of his doors, but on the few that require it, his method is good
to know. Also, I thought his work was quite beautiful and obviously he
strives for very tight tolerances.

I have a question for anyone who has read the article. Look closely at
the rails/stiles. Do you think they were cut with rail/stile bits on a
router or shaper, or could the same be achieved with a table saw?

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:32:48 -0500, Lenny wrote:

I'll have to look for that issue, Thanks!
I allow anywhere from a 1/16 to an 1/8 over finished size on my
stiles and rails (partly so I don't have to worry so much about
dinging an edge during glue up or whatever). One thing I wonder about,
did the article talk about tolerances in the gap varying by season?

Not that I noticed, though I can miss such things. Since the inset door is
a panel door, the expansion concerns only deal with the rails and stiles.
I think each rail (maybe 2 - 2.5" wide?) can expand almost 1/8" in width
before there is a problem with them (assuming the expansion would be
somewhat equally outward and inward). He back bevels the edge opposite the
hinges. -- Igor

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:23:06 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"igor" wrote in message
.. .

Is it really that tough to make and install an inset cabinet door?

2. As we all know sometimes the stiles and some times the rails tend to
warp a bit. If the offending rail or stile bows outward I like to back
bevel the offending outer side edge a couple of degrees such that the door
stile front edge to side angle is less than 90 degrees. This leaves an edge
on the corner that is easily hand planed slightly to remove any less than
perfect clearances and give a consistant width shadow line.

Makes sense (expect for the _hand_ planing part).