I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?

Look at the brand name.

Who do you think will be the primary marketing target?

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, RayV wrote:

I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

As long as these exist you can bet that we really are *that* lazy:
http://www.smuckers.com/fg/otg/uncrustables/default.asp

--
-Joe Wells

"Here stands baseball's perfect warrior. Here stands baseball's perfect knight."
-Ford Frick upon Stan Musial's retirement

B A R R Y wrote:
RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?

For a minute, I thought "The Onion" had hijacked the B&D site! G

RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

I love how they sell stuff like that. Check out this picture from the
B&D site:
http://www.blackanddecker.com//Produ.../ACC100_A1.jpg
I suppose if you're that inept, an auto-clamp might keep you from
crushing your fingers in a normal clamp. Notice how nice his cuts are
even using a handsaw in that awkward position - the ends of the board
look like they were done on a tablesaw. Most admirable. The tool
selection hanging on that rack is priceless - a couple of paint
rollers, couple of hammers, a large wrench, a couple of putty knives
and a rubber mallet. Yep, time for him to be open up his own cabinet
shop!

R

"RayV" writes:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251


It would seem to make sense for woodworkers with carpel tunnel or arthritis
which prevent or diminish gripping force.

scott

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
"RayV" writes:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...px?ProductID=1
5251


It would seem to make sense for woodworkers with carpel tunnel or
arthritis
which prevent or diminish gripping force.

If someone would make one that is both pneumatic, cost effective, and could
be adapted for use on the multi-router, I would buy a couple or three in
heartbeat.

Nothing lazy about it ... it's amazing how much time and effort placing,
tightening, and loosening clamps is expended when 'batching' multiple parts,
say mortises in both ends of 72 slats! DAMHIKT

Here is a pair that JDS sells for the Multi-router:

http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?Pa...PROD&ProdID=58

.... ouch!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?

But then, I'm not exactly a forward thinker. I thought the electric
can opener was a frivolity. The first remote controlled TV seemed
pretty useless too; but back then I could remember what was on the ONE
other channel. When I first heard about this new thing called
electronic mail, a techno-geek excitedly told me we would have to check
it several times a day to keep up with it. My response was, that if
anybody wanted a response from me in less than a day, they could call
me on the phone. Now, I check my email at work several times an hour.
My folks were 75 when I installed a garage door opener over their
objections that it really wasn't too much trouble to get out and raise
the door.

So, maybe this electric clamp fills a need we just haven't discovered
yet.

DonkeyHody
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
one anymore." - Mark Twain

Hey...when you run with the "Big Dogs", it appears
that you need to pay up ???

$165 for a tool stand is a little strong also...

Swingman wrote:



Nothing lazy about it ... it's amazing how much time and effort placing,
tightening, and loosening clamps is expended when 'batching' multiple parts,
say mortises in both ends of 72 slats! DAMHIKT

Here is a pair that JDS sells for the Multi-router:

http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?Pa...PROD&ProdID=58

... ouch!

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251


I suppose that this could be used for some kind of delicate, one hand
glueing operation, MAYBE.

What I thought was funny is that it used 4 AA batteries. How long does this
thing last with that anemic power source? You would think, being black and
decker and all, that they would have made it compatible with some of their
cheapy rechargable battery packs.

But no, they use the same batteries as my wall clock. Maybe they thought
nobody was actually going to USE this thing.

I also have to wonder if this thing can even clamp with very much pressure.
You probably have to hand tighten the thing when that little motor stops
pushing.

I think I can manage without it.

On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251


If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.

Frank

"Pat Barber" wrote in message

Hey...when you run with the "Big Dogs", it appears
that you need to pay up ???

Well ... el perrito barks "NO" at that price.

$165 for a tool stand is a little strong also...

Like a good little wooddorker, I fashioned my own out of one I already had.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

"DonkeyHody" wrote

It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?


When I saw that electric tape measure, I howled and laughed at it. I
ridiculed it. My lovley bride, in her own little world of woman logic,
thought this was a good sign. So she bought me one for christmas.

I was dumbfounded. I asked her if she realized that this was a piece of
fluff in a world of real tools. She said that she knew that I did not really
need it. But since I reacted so strongly to the commercial, she though it
would be "cute" is she got it for me!!

Whatever happened to gift certificates?

grumble, grumble, bitch, bitch

Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251


If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.

Frank

And force all that dirty fluid back through the sensitive anti-lock
braking motor? You better get one of these "in a flash" and suck that
dirty fluid out:
http://tinyurl.com/ybca4a
You'll also need one of these:
http://tinyurl.com/yf4ac6

Seriously, this little gadget works great and is a lot easier to manage
than a c-clamp.
http://tinyurl.com/ybhpm4
You probably have the parts to make one sitting on your bench...

In article . com, "RayV" wrote:

Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...?ProductID=152
51


If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.

Frank

And force all that dirty fluid back through the sensitive anti-lock
braking motor?

And just why would the fluid be "dirty"?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

When I saw that electric tape measure, I howled and laughed at it. I
ridiculed it. My lovley bride, in her own little world of woman logic,
thought this was a good sign. So she bought me one for christmas.

I was dumbfounded. I asked her if she realized that this was a piece of
fluff in a world of real tools. She said that she knew that I did not really
need it. But since I reacted so strongly to the commercial, she though it
would be "cute" is she got it for me!!

Whatever happened to gift certificates?

grumble, grumble, bitch, bitch

I think that was the same year I got the laser level for hanging
pictures. The laser line is straight as a string - and it works great
.. . . if you set it atop a real level so you don't have to depend on
that microscopic little bubble they provided. Of course then you don't
have a free hand to mark with anyway, so I leave the laser device on
the shelf and use a level like I always did.

DonkeyHody
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"DonkeyHody" wrote

It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?


When I saw that electric tape measure, I howled and laughed at it. I
ridiculed it. My lovley bride, in her own little world of woman logic,
thought this was a good sign. So she bought me one for christmas.

I was dumbfounded. I asked her if she realized that this was a piece of
fluff in a world of real tools. She said that she knew that I did not
really need it. But since I reacted so strongly to the commercial, she
though it would be "cute" is she got it for me!!

Whatever happened to gift certificates?

grumble, grumble, bitch, bitch

Funnily enough I posted last year on that very tape measure. I thought it
was downright ridiculous. What did my admin at work get me that year?
Yup. Still sitting in the garage in it's packaging. She'll probably get
me one of their "Battery Powered" crescent wrenches this year.....I can't
wait.
Cheers,
cc

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "RayV" wrote:

Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...?ProductID=152
51


If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.

Frank

And force all that dirty fluid back through the sensitive anti-lock
braking motor?

And just why would the fluid be "dirty"?


Brake fluid absorbs moisture and causes corrosion to the metal parts in
the brake system. The oxidized material then breaks loose and becomes
suspended in the fluid. These fine particals _may_ damage components
especially anti-lock brake motors.

http://ois.nist.gov/nistpubs/technip...fm?dbibid=1972

RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...px?ProductID=1
5251

Thats B&D for you...always looking to turn a tool into a gimmick.
On saying that I have strugggled a couple of times when I wish I had 3
hands. :-)

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

DonkeyHody wrote:
It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?

Wonderful. Now half the guys in the USA are going to have ONE clamp on
Christmas morning which means that the next day they will have to go
out and buy ANOTHER one so they have a functional pair. Nobody can
have ONE clamp. It's not balanced!

FoggyTown

Wonderful. Now half the guys in the USA are going to have ONE clamp on
Christmas morning which means that the next day they will have to go
out and buy ANOTHER one so they have a functional pair. Nobody can
have ONE clamp. It's not balanced!

FoggyTown


You know how crowded the stores are right after Christmas with all the
returns and everything. You should save yourself the hassle and go
ahead and buy one now to beat the rush.

DonkeyHody

In article .com, "RayV" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "RayV"
wrote:

Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?


http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...?ProductID=152
51


If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.

Frank

And force all that dirty fluid back through the sensitive anti-lock
braking motor?

And just why would the fluid be "dirty"?


Brake fluid absorbs moisture and causes corrosion to the metal parts in
the brake system. The oxidized material then breaks loose and becomes
suspended in the fluid.

Well, yes, *if* the system is opened.

These fine particals _may_ damage components
especially anti-lock brake motors.

http://ois.nist.gov/nistpubs/technip...fm?dbibid=1972

And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I still do not understand those guys at JDS...

They could up their volume by thousands if they
would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
with what you get.

Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
sell with a lower price point.

I seldom learn anything new on the web...that was a
pleaseant surprise to find out about those critters:

RayV wrote:


Seriously, this little gadget works great and is a lot easier to manage
than a c-clamp.
http://tinyurl.com/ybhpm4
You probably have the parts to make one sitting on your bench...

Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com, "RayV" wrote:

Brake fluid absorbs moisture and causes corrosion to the metal parts in
the brake system. The oxidized material then breaks loose and becomes
suspended in the fluid.

Well, yes, *if* the system is opened.

Right, because that snap on plastic cap will prevent any mositure laden
air from entering the brake system that was filled at the factory in
zero humidity conditions.


These fine particals _may_ damage components
especially anti-lock brake motors.

http://ois.nist.gov/nistpubs/technip...fm?dbibid=1972

And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?


Did you ever try decaf?

Doug Miller wrote:
And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?


Hi Doug.

Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
do antilock
breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
pinch the brake
line. Then the theory is that when you push the pads back, the fluid
comes out the
bleeder valve instead of "backwashing" back into the system where it
could hurt the
antilock break mechanism. Personally, I was too lazy and just changed
it the old
fashioned way. My ABS breaks were fine, but that doesn't mean it always
works.
My car was old enough that I didn't worry about hosing up the anti-lock
feature.

RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

Thanks for the laugh.. I needed that. LOL.

In article . com, "RayV" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?

Did you ever try decaf?

Did you ever try exploring the logical consequences of your comments?

I was responding specifically to your suggestion that using a C-clamp to
retract the caliper piston -- which needs to be done when changing pads --
risks damage from contaminated fluid. If that's so, the logical conclusion is
that the fluid should be flushed and replaced whenever the pads are changed,
in order to avoid that damage. Is that your contention?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article .com, "bf" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?


Hi Doug.

Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
do antilock breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
pinch the brake line. Then the theory is that when you push the pads back, the fluid
comes out the bleeder valve instead of "backwashing" back into the system where it
could hurt the antilock break mechanism.

The Haynes manual for my Saturn doesn't mention any such procedure; it just
says to remove the cap from the master cylinder reservoir, and use a C-clamp
to retract the piston.

And I can't imagine that pinching the brake line with a vise-grip pliers does
anything good for the brake line. Yes, I know you mean the flexible rubber
line and not the rigid steel line.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:11:32 -0600, Frank Boettcher
wrote:

If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.

It doesn't look like it's nearly that strong. I mean, I ended up
bending a c-clamp on my wife's car when I was redoing her brakes,
those pistons are a pain!

Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com, "bf" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?


Hi Doug.

Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
do antilock breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
pinch the brake line. Then the theory is that when you push the pads back, the fluid
comes out the bleeder valve instead of "backwashing" back into the system where it
could hurt the antilock break mechanism.

The Haynes manual for my Saturn doesn't mention any such procedure; it just
says to remove the cap from the master cylinder reservoir, and use a C-clamp
to retract the piston.

And I can't imagine that pinching the brake line with a vise-grip pliers does
anything good for the brake line. Yes, I know you mean the flexible rubber
line and not the rigid steel line.


that was part of the reason I hestiated to do that procedure. Someone
that makes a living
as a mechanic told me that procedure. Of course, that doesn't make it
right...just giving you
an explanation that was given to me.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:05:33 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

I still do not understand those guys at JDS...

They could up their volume by thousands if they
would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
with what you get.

Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
sell with a lower price point.


Well, unless they're a bunch of shmucks (doubtful) they have probably
run those calculations. I don't know much about the company but it
could be shop based. Lower the price and up the volume and they would
be facing production of a different scale. Since these machines are
not mass market -like IPods or cell phones- it might not make sense
from a logistical or financial perspective.

To me, that seems as 'bout worthwhile as putting a laser beam on a cordless
drill.

--
Rick Nagy
Johnstown, PA

- Remove nospam to email me
Be sure to check out my website at http://www.rickscabinetshop.com
"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
I still do not understand those guys at JDS...

They could up their volume by thousands if they
would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
with what you get.

Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
sell with a lower price point.

Have you had any hands on with one? I could be way off base, but IMO it is
pretty hard to imagine a machine of that quality/caliber priced much lower
than it is.

Hell, folks pay that much for a laptop that's obsolete in two years.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message

Well, unless they're a bunch of shmucks (doubtful) they have probably
run those calculations. I don't know much about the company but it
could be shop based. Lower the price and up the volume and they would
be facing production of a different scale. Since these machines are
not mass market -like IPods or cell phones- it might not make sense
from a logistical or financial perspective.

I'm sure it doesn't. The Multi-Router is of a quality that you rarely see
any longer in this country and I'm surprised they don't cost more. You
really have to take a close look at one, and put it through it's paces, to
appreciate the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness that is inherent
in the beast ... makes the words "fit and finish" too paltry to describe it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

Would be foolish to buy one of those when you can buy another K-body
Bessey!

On Nov 6, 6:23 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
The Multi-Router is of a quality that you rarely see
any longer in this country and I'm surprised they don't cost more. You
really have to take a close look at one, and put it through it's paces, to
appreciate the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness that is inherent
in the beast ... makes the words "fit and finish" too paltry to describe it.

Okay, okay okaaaayyyy!!! I surrender... I want one, damn you!!! That
machine oooooozes: "buy me, buy me!!!"

(*practising my rationalization*: the mix of engineering, accuracy and
robustness, the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness, the mix of
engineering, accuracy and robustness.)

But I will wait for jBot. g

r

"Robatoy" wrote in message


On Nov 6, 6:23 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
The Multi-Router is of a quality that you rarely see
any longer in this country and I'm surprised they don't cost more. You
really have to take a close look at one, and put it through it's paces,
to
appreciate the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness that is
inherent
in the beast ... makes the words "fit and finish" too paltry to describe
it.

Okay, okay okaaaayyyy!!! I surrender... I want one, damn you!!! That
machine oooooozes: "buy me, buy me!!!"

(*practising my rationalization*: the mix of engineering, accuracy and
robustness, the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness, the mix of
engineering, accuracy and robustness.)

But I will wait for jBot. g


LOL ... but with the M-R, you actually have to touch wood.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251


If you actually look at this photo

http://www.blackanddecker.com//Produ.../ACC100_A1.gif

The wood looks like it first was cut on a TS. Then the guy looks to be
strugling to cut a piece of pine with a hand saw. There must be a magical
pencil line as I can't see one or he wants to cut it at a random angle. How
did our fore fathers manage to cut all of that wood for houses, barns,
sheds, etc. without this miracle invention.

Then if you look at this photo

http://www.blackanddecker.com//Produ.../ACC100_A2.gif

You see that she must have one of the most powerful dust collectors out
there as there is zero dust on the clamp, work piece, bench, hands, or
sandpaper. And just imagine that it is made by B&D. Who would have thought.

Last looking at this photo and comparing it to the one above.

http://www.blackanddecker.com//Produ.../ACC100_A3.gif

You see in the background that there is a power sander sitting on the
workbench. Also I would love some of that non clogging sand paper she has. I
would never have to explain to SWMBO that yes I do have to buy more and no
it doesn't last forever.

Allen

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "RayV" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?

Did you ever try decaf?

Did you ever try exploring the logical consequences of your comments?

Not as often as I should.


I was responding specifically to your suggestion that using a C-clamp to
retract the caliper piston -- which needs to be done when changing pads --
risks damage from contaminated fluid. If that's so, the logical conclusion is
that the fluid should be flushed and replaced whenever the pads are changed,
in order to avoid that damage. Is that your contention?

Perhaps you didn't fully read my post that finished with this:
"Seriously, this little gadget works great and is a lot easier to
manage than a c-clamp.
http://tinyurl.com/ybhpm4
You probably have the parts to make one sitting on your bench... "

So my suggestion that that using a c-clamp to push the caliper back in
could contaminate your system was partly in jest.
However
None of the many manufacturers procedures I have read mention a
c-clamp. Most have a part # referencing a specific tool to retract the
calipers. So a c-clamp is usually wrong but most DIYers use them. The
biggest problem with using a c-clamp is that you can't always get
them to press on the center of the piston. Scoring, cocking the piston
and tearing the seal are much more common than pushing dirt backwards
to damage another component.
Several manufacturers recommend changing your brake fluid as often as
once a year to reduce the chances of corrosion. So that could mean a
fluid change more often than your pads are changed.

Do I use a c-clamp to retract the piston? Almost exclusively.
Do I flush my brake fluid and replace with fresh annually? Nope.
Can using a c-clamp to retract a piston damage your brake system if the
bleeder isn't opened? Yes, but you probably have a greater chance of
breaking off the bleed screw than damaging something else by not
opening it.