bf wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?


Hi Doug.

Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
do antilock
breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
pinch the brake
line.

I've heard this before and would never do it (pinching the line that
is). Even though the lines are tiny the amount of pressure inside them
is very high and forcibly deforming a high pressure hose doesn't sound
good to me.

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251


I don't know about lazy, but I can think of MANY times I was clamping
something with C-clamps and needed a third hand to hold the parts, line up
the clamp and twist the screw down. Now if it were made by someone other
than B&D!
Greg

In article ,
B A R R Y wrote:
RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?

Look at the brand name.

Who do you think will be the primary marketing target?

Personally I wouldn't buy these for clamping, but if the screw operates
under power in both directions and the switch leads could be brought
out externally, I could envision some neat uses for these things
as positioning mechanisms or in home made robots & such.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

In article .com,
DonkeyHody wrote:

RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?

http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?

But then, I'm not exactly a forward thinker. I thought the electric
can opener was a frivolity. The first remote controlled TV seemed
pretty useless too; but back then I could remember what was on the ONE
other channel. When I first heard about this new thing called
electronic mail, a techno-geek excitedly told me we would have to check
it several times a day to keep up with it. My response was, that if
anybody wanted a response from me in less than a day, they could call
me on the phone. Now, I check my email at work several times an hour.
My folks were 75 when I installed a garage door opener over their
objections that it really wasn't too much trouble to get out and raise
the door.

So, maybe this electric clamp fills a need we just haven't discovered
yet.

DonkeyHody
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
one anymore." - Mark Twain


Yeah, my Mom at age 83 finally accepted a microwave as a gift. It took
a few months but now she uses it every day. I remeber trying to give
them one about 15 or 20 eyars ago, my Dad was still alive at the time
and recently retired, said, "What do we need that for, we don't need
to save any time any more."

BTW, maybe cats were not as smart in Mark Twain's day, but my
observation is that he was mistaken in this particular quote.

--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com,
"RayV" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?

Did you ever try decaf?

Did you ever try exploring the logical consequences of your comments?

I was responding specifically to your suggestion that using a C-clamp to
retract the caliper piston -- which needs to be done when changing pads --
risks damage from contaminated fluid. If that's so, the logical conclusion is
that the fluid should be flushed and replaced whenever the pads are changed,
in order to avoid that damage. Is that your contention?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Hey guys, lets come down to earth here. I've been working in vehicle
maintenance for 26 years, the last 10 or so as a supervisor. believe
me, most of the time those C clamps sit in the toolbox. Especially in
flat rate shops. Unless the piston is stuck, 9 time out of 10 the mech
will just jam a medium sized prybar in there wherever he can get a
bite and get that piston retracted before he even removes it from
the disc.


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

The ad says that a set of batteries will operate the clamp 60 times. I
can just imaging how frustrating it would be to be all set up and
depending on that "one handed operation" when the batteries quit.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

In article ,
Greg O wrote:
...snipped...
I don't know about lazy, but I can think of MANY times I was clamping
something with C-clamps and needed a third hand to hold the parts, line up
the clamp and twist the screw down.

No doubt if you were using one of these clamps, that would be the same
time the batteries decided to go dead.






--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

wrote in message
The ad says that a set of batteries will operate the clamp 60 times. I
can just imaging how frustrating it would be to be all set up and
depending on that "one handed operation" when the batteries quit.

People are going to be using a lot of batteries then. The first several
dozen times the clamp is used will be people playing around with it.

Joe Bemier wrote:
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:05:33 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

I still do not understand those guys at JDS...

They could up their volume by thousands if they
would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
with what you get.

Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
sell with a lower price point.


Well, unless they're a bunch of shmucks (doubtful) they have probably
run those calculations. I don't know much about the company but it
could be shop based. Lower the price and up the volume and they would
be facing production of a different scale. Since these machines are
not mass market -like IPods or cell phones- it might not make sense
from a logistical or financial perspective.

I've decided to wait until the 110 volt version comes out. Unless of
course they enhance the "cordlessness" in a new version that has a
little 1/20 hp Briggs & Stratton engine attached.

FoggyTown

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251


I'll not be using the cord on my Recip saw any more. I can make it saw with
out the motor. ;~)

In article .com, "RayV" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "RayV"
wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?

Did you ever try decaf?

Did you ever try exploring the logical consequences of your comments?

Not as often as I should.


I was responding specifically to your suggestion that using a C-clamp to
retract the caliper piston -- which needs to be done when changing pads --
risks damage from contaminated fluid. If that's so, the logical conclusion is
that the fluid should be flushed and replaced whenever the pads are changed,
in order to avoid that damage. Is that your contention?

Perhaps you didn't fully read my post that finished with this:
"Seriously, this little gadget works great and is a lot easier to
manage than a c-clamp.
http://tinyurl.com/ybhpm4
You probably have the parts to make one sitting on your bench... "

Yes, I read the whole thing. Including the part quoted above, which simply
shows another mechanism for pushing the caliper piston back -- which you said
could damage the system by forcing contaminated fluid backwards.

So my suggestion that that using a c-clamp to push the caliper back in
could contaminate your system was partly in jest.

You're starting to sound like John Kerry -- it was just a botched joke.

However
None of the many manufacturers procedures I have read mention a
c-clamp. Most have a part # referencing a specific tool to retract the
calipers.

You need to get out more.

I have a Dodge truck, a Suburban, and a Saturn. I have the factory service
manuals for both trucks, and a Haynes manual for the Saturn. _All_three_ say
to use a C-clamp. None of them even mention the existence, let alone the use,
of any special tool, and the illustrations accompanying the text show a
C-clamp.

I've also had a Fiat, an Oldsmobile, a Buick, and two Mazdas, all equipped
with disc brakes at least on the front, and the factory service manuals for
each -- and I have yet to see a brake-pad procedure that does not recommend a
C-clamp to retract the piston on the front calipers. (Rears are a different
story, but that's because of the emergency-brake mechanism.)

So a c-clamp is usually wrong but most DIYers use them.

In my experience, most DIYers use them because they're the tool recommended by
the manufacturer.

The
biggest problem with using a c-clamp is that you can't always get
them to press on the center of the piston.

That's not a problem with using a C-clamp per se -- that's a problem with
using a C-clamp that's too small.

Scoring, cocking the piston
and tearing the seal are much more common than pushing dirt backwards
to damage another component.

I'm sure that's true -- partly because using a too-small clamp or putting it
on cockeyed is fairly easy to do, and partly because pushing dirt backwards
isn't anywhere _near_ the problem you made it out to be.

Several manufacturers recommend changing your brake fluid as often as
once a year to reduce the chances of corrosion. So that could mean a
fluid change more often than your pads are changed.

Which manufacturers would those be?

Do I use a c-clamp to retract the piston? Almost exclusively.
Do I flush my brake fluid and replace with fresh annually? Nope.
Can using a c-clamp to retract a piston damage your brake system if the
bleeder isn't opened? Yes

No. Not likely anyway.

, but you probably have a greater chance of
breaking off the bleed screw than damaging something else by not
opening it.

You did get that part right.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:41:27 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article .com, "bf" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?


Hi Doug.

Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
do antilock breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
pinch the brake line. Then the theory is that when you push the pads back, the fluid
comes out the bleeder valve instead of "backwashing" back into the system where it
could hurt the antilock break mechanism.

The Haynes manual for my Saturn doesn't mention any such procedure; it just
says to remove the cap from the master cylinder reservoir, and use a C-clamp
to retract the piston.

As do mine for a Chrysler T & C, Dodge Dakota, and Honda Accord

And I can't imagine that pinching the brake line with a vise-grip pliers does
anything good for the brake line. Yes, I know you mean the flexible rubber
line and not the rigid steel line.

You're right.

"Greg O" wrote in message
...
"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251


I don't know about lazy, but I can think of MANY times I was clamping
something with C-clamps and needed a third hand to hold the parts, line up
the clamp and twist the screw down. Now if it were made by someone other
than B&D!

Have you ever tried Irwin Quick-Grip clamps? I'm talking about these
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/browse.jhtml?catId=IrwinCat100026.

I needed something to hold some pieces in place a while back, didn't need
precision, didn't need much force, just needed to hold them more or less in
place for a few minutes, and none of the clamps that I had that were long
enough to do the job would fit in the space available (one of those deals
where you reach a point that "if that %^&* thing falls on my head _one_ more
time . . ." ). Went down to Home Depot to look for something that would
hold them and saw a four-pack of Mini Quick-Grips for something like 30
bucks--on the basis that they'd do _that_ job and one can never have too
many clamps, even lousy ones, I went with those rather than plan A, which
was carpet tape. Turns out they actually work--they're not a substitute for
Bessey Ks but they're darned handy, mainly because they can be used
one-handed and exert a reasonable amount of clamping force. I'll usually
grab one of those instead of a small handscrew to hold a stop block or the
like now that I have them. Ended up going back and getting another pack of
them.

On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:01:46 +0000, Leon wrote:


I'll not be using the cord on my Recip saw any more. I can make it saw with
out the motor. ;~)

If you retrofit a crank, might be able to do the same with a router.

Bill

In article , "J. Clarke" wrote:


Have you ever tried Irwin Quick-Grip clamps? I'm talking about these
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/browse.jhtml?catId=IrwinCat100026.

I needed something to hold some pieces in place a while back, didn't need
precision, didn't need much force, just needed to hold them more or less in
place for a few minutes, and none of the clamps that I had that were long
enough to do the job would fit in the space available

Those are great! I have a pair of those, and for the type of application you
just described, they're perfect.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

This guy in the photo has it all wrong.
He needs to turn the board around,set on it. cup of java in left hand
saw in right hand.
OOOH be carefull not to get any sawdust in your java, mite be bad for
you.



RicodJour wrote:
RayV wrote:
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

I love how they sell stuff like that. Check out this picture from the
B&D site:
http://www.blackanddecker.com//Produ.../ACC100_A1.jpg
I suppose if you're that inept, an auto-clamp might keep you from
crushing your fingers in a normal clamp. Notice how nice his cuts are
even using a handsaw in that awkward position - the ends of the board
look like they were done on a tablesaw. Most admirable. The tool
selection hanging on that rack is priceless - a couple of paint
rollers, couple of hammers, a large wrench, a couple of putty knives
and a rubber mallet. Yep, time for him to be open up his own cabinet
shop!

R

On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:00:31 GMT, "Rick's Cabinet Shop"
wrote:

To me, that seems as 'bout worthwhile as putting a laser beam on a cordless
drill.

Hey, then you could play Laser Tag with your tools! Cool idea!

"Doug Miller" wrote

"J. Clarke" wrote:

Have you ever tried Irwin Quick-Grip clamps? I'm talking about these
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/browse.jhtml?catId=IrwinCat100026.

I needed something to hold some pieces in place a while back, didn't need
precision, didn't need much force, just needed to hold them more or less
in
place for a few minutes, and none of the clamps that I had that were long
enough to do the job would fit in the space available

Those are great! I have a pair of those, and for the type of application
you
just described, they're perfect.


i use them too. Had a friend with a massage office who bought a big,
(expensive) infared lamp made in china. It has some strange connector that I
could not replace that kept coming apart. It was essential for the function
of the lamp. I looked at it closely and determined if I could keep some
external pressure on it, it would work just fine.

So, just like Mr Clark, I spotted these clamps at Lowes and bought some.
They were perfect for the application and their trendy styling fit right
into a massage facility. The big lamp is shiny white and most people think
that the clamp is original equipment and that it is a part of the lamp. The
most popular perception is that it is an adjustment lever of some kind.

The lamp is about $400 and the clamp was about $8. So for $8 and a little
reclamping now and then, everything works just fine.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...



Have you ever tried Irwin Quick-Grip clamps? I'm talking about these
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/browse.jhtml?catId=IrwinCat100026.



I have a few clamps like them, but sometimes I need the clearance that a
c-clamp has.
Mind you I am not buying any B&D clamps!
Greg

I just want to find some good pics to build one. Can't justify the price
but I have lots of applicable parts.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
I still do not understand those guys at JDS...

They could up their volume by thousands if they
would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
with what you get.

Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
sell with a lower price point.

On Nov 7, 9:26 pm, "Ron Moore" wrote:

Lots of inspiration he
http://www.techno-isel.com/tech_linear.htm

In article . com,
says...
I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...roductID=15251

Lazy? I don't know, but I do know my Dad could have used a couple of
these when he was trying to do one-handed woodworking after his stroke.

Doubt the B&D brass had that market in mind, though.

Ron,

Sorry if this doesn't apply, as I only caught part of this thread and
believe that you are talking about a Multi-router. If so, then the following
link may be of interest.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/r...es_110.sh tml

The original website is at www.woodisourart.com and is shown under "The
Shop".

Hope this helps.

Peter.

"Ron Moore" wrote in message
...
I just want to find some good pics to build one. Can't justify the price
but I have lots of applicable parts.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
I still do not understand those guys at JDS...

They could up their volume by thousands if they
would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
with what you get.

Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
sell with a lower price point.

Good site, looks like. However, I have been collecting that kind of stuff
for several years. I just need to see how the thing goes together or
functions a little closer to build one. I do appreciate the site link.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore

"Robatoy" wrote in message
oups.com...


On Nov 7, 9:26 pm, "Ron Moore" wrote:

Lots of inspiration he
http://www.techno-isel.com/tech_linear.htm

"Ron Moore" wrote in message
Good site, looks like. However, I have been collecting that kind of stuff
for several years. I just need to see how the thing goes together or
functions a little closer to build one. I do appreciate the site link.

Is your e-mail good and can you receive attachments? I'll be glad to take
pictures for you, from all angles, of the beast.

Just say the word.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

The return address is correct or send to ron at mlogical.com. Thanks for
the help.
Ron

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"Ron Moore" wrote in message
Good site, looks like. However, I have been collecting that kind of
stuff
for several years. I just need to see how the thing goes together or
functions a little closer to build one. I do appreciate the site link.

Is your e-mail good and can you receive attachments? I'll be glad to take
pictures for you, from all angles, of the beast.

Just say the word.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

No, I have to admit I have not and what you say is probably
correct.

Being in the computer business, I agree with you about
laptops.


Swingman wrote:


Have you had any hands on with one? I could be way off base, but IMO it is
pretty hard to imagine a machine of that quality/caliber priced much lower
than it is.

Hell, folks pay that much for a laptop that's obsolete in two years.

The return address is correct or send to ron at mlogical.com. Thanks for
the help.
Ron
Don't know what happened to the first try I sent???

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"Ron Moore" wrote in message
Good site, looks like. However, I have been collecting that kind of
stuff
for several years. I just need to see how the thing goes together or
functions a little closer to build one. I do appreciate the site link.

Is your e-mail good and can you receive attachments? I'll be glad to take
pictures for you, from all angles, of the beast.

Just say the word.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

"RayV" wrote in
ups.com:

I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
needed?
http://www.blackanddecker.com/Produc...s.aspx?Product
ID=15251


Don't know if I'd go quite as far as something like this, but there have
been a few time I'd give up a body part to do without the crossbar to
tighten a clamp in a tight spot...