Hi all:

When I built my router table last year, I decided to buy a router with
built-in above-the-table height adjustment (Freud FT1700). My
reasoning was that it was less expensive than buying a router and lift
separately, and would be just as good. My experience has been
dissapointing. When I first used it, I found that the router spindle
would move horizontally when reversing the direction of height
adjustment. This was remedied by always adjusting height from the same
direction - a pain, but acceptable. I also found that the height
adjustment socket built into the router base was blind, which allowed
it to fill up with dust quickly, rendering it useless without blowing
out the dust. Then, the spindle lock stopped working, making bit
changes difficult. Last week, the above-table height adjustment
stopped working altogether. I disassembled the router, only to find
that the internal parts of the height adjustment are plastic, and that
one of them stripped out. So now I have to adjust the height from
under the table. Yesterday afternoon, the motor died, so I'm in the
market for a replacement (and I'll never buy another Freud power tool).

I've been comparing various router lifts, and considering buying a PC
7518. However, I am once-again tempted by the Milwaukee router with
built-in height adjustment. After reading reviews on Amazon, I see
that a couple of users have had problems with the height adjustment
stripping, just like on my Freud, so I'd like to hear from other owners
of this router.

Here's what I want:
1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.
2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.
3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.
4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

I would appreciate your recommendations.

BTW, I considered a shaper, but I don't have room for another
stand-alone machine in my shop right now.

Regards,
John.

the_tool_man wrote:
Hi all:

When I built my router table last year, I decided to buy a router with
built-in above-the-table height adjustment (Freud FT1700).

I think the first thing I'd do is contact Freud about your router. If
it's only a year old, there is no reason why any/all of those things
should have gone wrong with it. You should be able to get them to
repair/replace your router at no charge.

FWIW, tools that have been "remanufactured" or "reconditioned" from the
manufacturer are usually pretty good. I think that when they rebuild a
tool, it gets a much higher level of attention and ends up being a
really solid tool.

As for deciding between a router lift and a router with built in
adjustment, it sounds like you use the height adjustment feature a good
bit. A dedicated router lift is likely to have better components and
should work better - that's what it is designed to do. Built in height
adjustment is more likely to be a gimmicky feature that will not stand
up to daily use - as you have already discovered.

Mike

"the_tool_man" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all:

When I built my router table last year, I decided to buy a router with
built-in above-the-table height adjustment (Freud FT1700). My
reasoning was that it was less expensive than buying a router and lift
separately, and would be just as good. My experience has been
dissapointing. When I first used it, I found that the router spindle
would move horizontally when reversing the direction of height
adjustment.

I'm using Porter-Cable 7518 in a Mast-R-Lift. While there is no horizontal
movement I find that it is still helpful to always come at a height setting
from the same direction--there is a little bit of play in the adjustment and
by going past and coming back when going in one direction that slack gets
taken up.

This was remedied by always adjusting height from the same
direction - a pain, but acceptable. I also found that the height
adjustment socket built into the router base was blind, which allowed
it to fill up with dust quickly, rendering it useless without blowing
out the dust.

The socket in the Mast-R-Lift is open at the bottom--this is not usually a
problem but there's a relieved area at the top of the hold that will
occasionally get a chip stuck in it--if I notice and blow, vacuum, or pick
it out then it's not a problem--if I sock it down with the wrench before I
notice that it's there then sometimes I end up having to push it out from
the bottom--I've only had to do that a couple of times in several years
though.

Then, the spindle lock stopped working, making bit
changes difficult.

That's really an issue with the router, using a lift wouldn't address it.

Last week, the above-table height adjustment
stopped working altogether. I disassembled the router, only to find
that the internal parts of the height adjustment are plastic, and that
one of them stripped out.

The Jessem seems pretty rugged in that regard--at least I haven't broken it
yet grin.

So now I have to adjust the height from
under the table. Yesterday afternoon, the motor died, so I'm in the
market for a replacement (and I'll never buy another Freud power tool).

I've been comparing various router lifts, and considering buying a PC
7518. However, I am once-again tempted by the Milwaukee router with
built-in height adjustment. After reading reviews on Amazon, I see
that a couple of users have had problems with the height adjustment
stripping, just like on my Freud, so I'd like to hear from other owners
of this router.

Here's what I want:
1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.
2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.
3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.

The PC has this--works nicely.

4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

I would appreciate your recommendations.

BTW, I considered a shaper, but I don't have room for another
stand-alone machine in my shop right now.

It's an expensive solution, but Jessem has teamed with Milwaukee to produce
a router motor specifically for router table use--it comes as a bare router
motor with no base and has an external speed control that can be mounted on
the front of the table. If I had it to do over again I'd be sorely tempted
to go that way.

"the_tool_man" wrote in message
ups.com...

Snip

Here's what I want:
1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.

I once that above the table adjustment was important. "Kinda need" but not
necesssary. I use the built in knob below the table. I have to get down
there any way to adjust the speed and or unlock the height adjustment lever
anyway.

2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.

Again if you simply reach under for height adjustment you do not have the
problems associated with above the table adjustments.


3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.

Good luck finding one. Extending the spindle all the way up keeps you from
having to work the wrench in a confined space.

4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

Mine is relatively new it has been hanging under the router table for about
3 years. It replaced an old Bosch that had been hanging for 15 years.


I would appreciate your recommendations.

I use the UGLY looking Triton. It is built to hang under the table. It had
a coarse and fine tune height adjustment knob. The coarse is great for
raising the bit above the table for quick bit changes. The fine tune does
alloe a bit of wiggle during adjustment but after tightening the clamp lever
everything is rock solid. All adjustments on the bigger one are below the
table. Spindle lock is automatic when the bit is raised all the way through
the table.
Additionally, theis router can be used as a fixed base or plunge router with
out changing bases.
Normally fo rhand held use I prefer 2 wrenches to loosen and tighten the
collet. For use on a router table I prefer a single wrench with spindle
lock.

I use a 7518 in a Woodpecker's PRL...

1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.

The PRL has an above-the-table adjustment that uses an
allen-wrench-head crank. I keep a dial indicator on mine when
adjusting, and I've never noticed any backlash or horizontal motion.
It's rock solid. It also has top-side height indicators for fraction
of a turn settings and zeroing.

2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.

Both holes go all the way through, so no dust. I have a DC on the
cabinet too.

3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.

The PRL/7518 works by raising the router up enough to use the two
wrenches. Conveniently, the height crank acts as a stop for the lower
(spindle) wrench so you can focus on the upper (collet) one.

4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

All my parts are aluminum, mine's about four years old now. I
occasionally take the lift apart to clean out the dust and re-wax it,
but I do that to all my tools.

http://www.delorie.com/wood/projects/router/

"the_tool_man"

snip
Here's what I want:
1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.
2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.
3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.
4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

I would appreciate your recommendations.
John.


I use the PC 7518 in a Mast-R-Lift. It works great and I have no
complaints. If I need another, I would replace it with the same setup.
Dave

I have the Milwaulkee 2.25 hp in a hoime-made table. I bought it
specifically for the above the tabel adjust. The hole for the wrench
(supplied) has a rubber cover that prevents (supposedly) dust from
getting in. I drilled a hole in the plate i made, and it worked ok.
After a little while i found that the under the table adjust was so
easy to use, that I use it exclusively now.

My other router is a dewalt 621 - nice router, but a PAIN under the
table. The Milwaulkee is a very nice router as well. The handles come
off for table use, and it has a left/right hand strap for use like a
orbital sander! - haven't tried it - the router went right in the table

It's also pretty quiet, and the controls are easy to use without seeing
them All in all, I'm very happy with it.

I'd like tro take this opportunity to thank the members of this group.
I've read it for a few months now, and I've learned a lot. When it came
time to buy stuff, the advice posted here was the best .

thanks again, and I hope I can make a worthwhile contirbution or 2

shelly

"the_tool_man" wrote in message

Here's what I want:

4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

I would appreciate your recommendations.

Benchdog. www.benchdog.com www.routerbits.com


I have a Bosch router in mine. I use my cordless drill to run it all the
way up for bit changes, then down to close to where it should be, then use
the speed handle supplied for fine adjustments.

Not cheap, but if you want precision and durability - - - Benchdog.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 05:43:53 -0700, the_tool_man wrote:

Hi all:

When I built my router table last year, I decided to buy a router with
built-in above-the-table height adjustment (Freud FT1700). My
reasoning was that it was less expensive than buying a router and lift
separately, and would be just as good. My experience has been
dissapointing. When I first used it, I found that the router spindle
would move horizontally when reversing the direction of height
adjustment. This was remedied by always adjusting height from the same
direction - a pain, but acceptable. I also found that the height
adjustment socket built into the router base was blind, which allowed
it to fill up with dust quickly, rendering it useless without blowing
out the dust. Then, the spindle lock stopped working, making bit
changes difficult. Last week, the above-table height adjustment
stopped working altogether. I disassembled the router, only to find
that the internal parts of the height adjustment are plastic, and that
one of them stripped out. So now I have to adjust the height from
under the table. Yesterday afternoon, the motor died, so I'm in the
market for a replacement (and I'll never buy another Freud power tool).

I've been comparing various router lifts, and considering buying a PC
7518. However, I am once-again tempted by the Milwaukee router with
built-in height adjustment. After reading reviews on Amazon, I see
that a couple of users have had problems with the height adjustment
stripping, just like on my Freud, so I'd like to hear from other owners
of this router.

Here's what I want:
1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.
2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.
3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.
4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

I would appreciate your recommendations.

BTW, I considered a shaper, but I don't have room for another
stand-alone machine in my shop right now.

Regards,
John.

John,
I just bought the Milwaukee 5625 and it arrived today. I made the purchase
based on a review I read some time ago about it being the only router the
reviewer felt worthy of undertable mounting (opinions are like ... well,
you get the picture).

It IS a monster. I note that there is a clamping mechanism holding the
body to the motor and wonder if having that too tight would not cause
stripping of the gears.

It DOES have a rubber covered access hole for the built-in raiser.

It DOES use two wrenches for the collet.

I haven't had a chance to mount it and try it out yet but it looks to be
built like a tank. An M1-Abrams.

Bill

Hi Bill:

The 5625 is the router I am considering. However, on Amazon, 4 out of
27 reviews noted that the above-table height adjustment feature either
stripped completely, or allowed the router to slip. That kind of
failure rate has me concerned that I'll end up with another lemon.

How is Milwaukee's documentation?

Let us know how yours works out.

Regards,
John.

Bill wrote:

John,
I just bought the Milwaukee 5625 and it arrived today. I made the purchase
based on a review I read some time ago about it being the only router the
reviewer felt worthy of undertable mounting (opinions are like ... well,
you get the picture).

It IS a monster. I note that there is a clamping mechanism holding the
body to the motor and wonder if having that too tight would not cause
stripping of the gears.

It DOES have a rubber covered access hole for the built-in raiser.

It DOES use two wrenches for the collet.

I haven't had a chance to mount it and try it out yet but it looks to be
built like a tank. An M1-Abrams.

Bill

Thanks to all who replied.

I decided to go ahead and order the Milwaukee 5625-20 router. With the
SAVEMORE promotion at Amazon, I got it and the 1/4" collet for about
$250 with free shipping. If the lift mechanism fails, I'll get a
Woodpecker PRL-5625, which is made to fit it. This lets me get back to
work for less money, but also lets me upgrade later without starting
over. Thanks again.

Regards,
John.

I would imagine that they have made some improvements in the M1 over the
years but if that router was built like they (the M1) used to be, I'd have
gotten my money back.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
I haven't had a chance to mount it and try it out yet but it looks to be
built like a tank. An M1-Abrams.

Bill

You're right in looking for other opinions. I have found
Amazon's reviews to be far less than reliable. Some real bozos on there.

"the_tool_man" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Bill:

The 5625 is the router I am considering. However, on Amazon, 4 out of
27 reviews noted that the above-table height adjustment feature either
stripped completely, or allowed the router to slip. That kind of
failure rate has me concerned that I'll end up with another lemon.

How is Milwaukee's documentation?

Let us know how yours works out.

I'm almost embarrassed to describe my router table setup since it's so
far beyond what I really need, it's ridiculous. After a few years of
faking it, I finally decided to spend some money on a real solution. I
bought the 7518 just for a router table. Then I bought this:

http://www.benchdog.com/prolift.htm

Then after considering where I would put it, I bought this:

http://www.benchdog.com/promax.htm

I also have the harbor freight cast iron router table extension thingy
ordered from china. But I haven't put it on yet.

Then I built this giant cabinet for my contractor's saw with integrated
dust collection for the TS and for the router. The table extension
came with a fence that's adequate. I'm planning to build a new one.

What I like about it:

It feels like a tank. And rightfully so. It's all plate steel, cast
iron, and cast aluminum.

The height adjustment is silky-smooth. And there's a way to adjust out
the backlash.

It comes with a speed wrench to speed the raising and lowering.

The raising and lowering is a regular old bolt so you can attach it to
your power drill if you want.

Bit changes are above the table. It's the normal two-wrench porter
cable affair.

The rings are heavy plate steel and won't fly away (and into the bit)
like the plastic ones did on my rockler aluminum plate with the pc 690.
The also have set screws to remove any rocking.



What I don't like about it:

The height adjustment bolt fills up with sawdust just like you don't
want. I'm planning an above-the-table combo blade guard and router
tabel DC setup. When that's done, it should be easy to disconnect the
DC hose and clean it out. If that doesn't work, I plan to have a
coiled air hose with an air squirter handy to blast it out. For now, I
just blow it out myself and it's not a big deal.

The speed wrench has height measurement lines on it, but I think
they're useless. I still end up just measuring the height at the bit
anyway.

I'm still lusting after the digital readout height adjustment lifts. I
keep telling myself it's just a gimmick though.

If you do some research on the 7518, you'll find people complaining
about the variable speed circuit acting weird and not maintaining the
rpms like it should. When you first put a board in the bit, you can
hear the speed change a little, then sort of compensate. It's
annoying, but I can't say that it matters much. The VS feature is also
stepped. I would have prefered a dial or something. Again, I doubt it
matters.



Here's what I want:
1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.

There's no horizontal movement at all. It's perfect.

2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.

Mine has this problem.

3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.

Mine is 2-wrench.

4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

As far as I can tell, there's no plastic at all. It's cast aluminum,
plate steel, and brass.


BTW, I considered a shaper, but I don't have room for another
stand-alone machine in my shop right now.

I may get a shaper some day. I considered it. For what I paid for my
router setup, I could have bought a decent shaper. But I was scared
away by the spindle speeds. Even with the router bit collet adapters,
shapers just don't turn fast enough even on their fast speed settings.

brian

--Well here's my low-budget solution that allows you to use a P-C
router and still get accurate height adjustments:
http://www.nmpproducts.com/router.htm

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Proud to be the
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : family crackpot!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

FWIW, I sent the Freud to my closest repair center. They replaced it
with a new one. This one won't see table duty, so hopefully it will
hold up. The Milwaukee in the table is doing just fine

Regards,
John.

Spartan, practical, see the http://patwarner.com/cutter_depth.html link
for cheap alternative.

************************************************** ****************************************
the_tool_man wrote:
Hi all:

When I built my router table last year, I decided to buy a router with
built-in above-the-table height adjustment (Freud FT1700). My
reasoning was that it was less expensive than buying a router and lift
separately, and would be just as good. My experience has been
dissapointing. When I first used it, I found that the router spindle
would move horizontally when reversing the direction of height
adjustment. This was remedied by always adjusting height from the same
direction - a pain, but acceptable. I also found that the height
adjustment socket built into the router base was blind, which allowed
it to fill up with dust quickly, rendering it useless without blowing
out the dust. Then, the spindle lock stopped working, making bit
changes difficult. Last week, the above-table height adjustment
stopped working altogether. I disassembled the router, only to find
that the internal parts of the height adjustment are plastic, and that
one of them stripped out. So now I have to adjust the height from
under the table. Yesterday afternoon, the motor died, so I'm in the
market for a replacement (and I'll never buy another Freud power tool).

I've been comparing various router lifts, and considering buying a PC
7518. However, I am once-again tempted by the Milwaukee router with
built-in height adjustment. After reading reviews on Amazon, I see
that a couple of users have had problems with the height adjustment
stripping, just like on my Freud, so I'd like to hear from other owners
of this router.

Here's what I want:
1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.
2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.
3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.
4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

I would appreciate your recommendations.

BTW, I considered a shaper, but I don't have room for another
stand-alone machine in my shop right now.

Regards,
John.

I used a Rockler router table for years and hated it. I recently bought a
Jessem mast-r-lift excel and love the darn thing. It's height adjustment is
a handle out the side and I crank it up to change the bits with two
wrenches. The fence is nice, the two sides loosen and slide in and out and
the bridge is high enough to clear larger (high) bits like the adjustable
slot cutters. Dust clooector ports (above and below) work well and the
sliding miter gadget works very well.
Was expensive with all the gadgets but works sooo sweet.
Rockler also sells them only anodized blue insted of red.

m

MAST-R-LIFT EXCEL
"the_tool_man" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all:

When I built my router table last year, I decided to buy a router with
built-in above-the-table height adjustment (Freud FT1700). My
reasoning was that it was less expensive than buying a router and lift
separately, and would be just as good. My experience has been
dissapointing. When I first used it, I found that the router spindle
would move horizontally when reversing the direction of height
adjustment. This was remedied by always adjusting height from the same
direction - a pain, but acceptable. I also found that the height
adjustment socket built into the router base was blind, which allowed
it to fill up with dust quickly, rendering it useless without blowing
out the dust. Then, the spindle lock stopped working, making bit
changes difficult. Last week, the above-table height adjustment
stopped working altogether. I disassembled the router, only to find
that the internal parts of the height adjustment are plastic, and that
one of them stripped out. So now I have to adjust the height from
under the table. Yesterday afternoon, the motor died, so I'm in the
market for a replacement (and I'll never buy another Freud power tool).

I've been comparing various router lifts, and considering buying a PC
7518. However, I am once-again tempted by the Milwaukee router with
built-in height adjustment. After reading reviews on Amazon, I see
that a couple of users have had problems with the height adjustment
stripping, just like on my Freud, so I'd like to hear from other owners
of this router.

Here's what I want:
1: Height adjustment from above the table without significant backlash
or horizontal spindle movement.
2: Height adjustment that doesn't collect dust - either covered to
prevent entry or with a hole in the bottom to let dust out.
3: Spindle lock that does not require extending spindle all the way up
to actuate, but has a separate mechanism that can be activated at any
time. An alternative would be a two-wrench collet.
4: Robust lift mechanism that will last more than a year - prefereably
with no plastic parts to wear out.

I would appreciate your recommendations.

BTW, I considered a shaper, but I don't have room for another
stand-alone machine in my shop right now.

Regards,
John.