I have a Skil 12 V cordless drill purchased for about $50 (US) a few
years ago. I guess it doesn't even have a part number, it just says
Variable Speed 12 Volts. It has seven torque settings plus the drill
setting. Besides foreword, stop, and reverse, there are no other
functions.

I'm wondering how much more powerful is a Makita 14.4 volt 6337DWDE
MFORCE driver?

http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=pr...t&tag=6337DWDE

Is the Makita 14.4 volt 6935FDWDE cordless impact driver more or
less powerful than that when not using the hammer function?

http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=pr...&tag=6935FDWDE

When they rate hammer tools, I think they include the instantaneous
torque with every pulse, but I'm interested in the persistent
twisting force.

Thank you for any answers.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...

I have a Skil 12 V cordless drill purchased for about $50 (US) a few
years ago. I guess it doesn't even have a part number, it just says
Variable Speed 12 Volts. It has seven torque settings plus the drill
setting. Besides foreword, stop, and reverse, there are no other
functions.

I'm wondering how much more powerful is a Makita 14.4 volt 6337DWDE
MFORCE driver?

http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=pr...t&tag=6337DWDE

How much more powerful would be hard to say. Typically however better
quality tools perform better than cheaper tools of equal voltage. I Own
the 12 volt version of the Makita you are looking at and am pleased with it.

Is the Makita 14.4 volt 6935FDWDE cordless impact driver more or
less powerful than that when not using the hammer function?

http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=pr...&tag=6935FDWDE

I also have the 12 volt version of this impact driver. You do not have the
option of not using this tool in a non impact setting. That said however it
spins freely when there is no load. However once a load is encountered the
hammering action immediately begins. IMHO this tool DOES NOT replace a
clutched drill driver. It is much easier to break a screw if you are not
careful with the trigger and do not stop driving then the screw stops going
in.


When they rate hammer tools, I think they include the instantaneous
torque with every pulse, but I'm interested in the persistent
twisting force.

That may be a tough force to measure. If you hold a bit with your fingers
and pull the trigger the driver immediately goes into hammer action to over
come your slight grip. This tool works like the typical air impact wrench.
It spins freely and quickly until any slight amount of resistance is met.

Most of my experience is with the Makita 14.4. I have had one of the older
ones for probably 10 years (it was purchased during a Builder's Square going
out of business sale). Everything except the batteries did well until a
year or two ago when batteries started failing (not bad, actually). By that
time the drill itself looked like an old, beat-up stock-car - pretty well
used. Not wanting to invest heavily in a motor that might die I bought one
aftermarket battery. My wife got me a new 14.4 set with drill motor and
impact screwdriver for Christmas last year. The batteries are
interchangeable but the old charger has a problem with new batteries.

BTW - The impact driver is great. We built about 225 feet of fence and
arbor this summer and the driver has driven more than 3,000 screws in a
fairly short period.

On the other hand, my brother-in-law keeps a couple of the 18v Skil's on the
farm and they, too look like stock cars but work fine. They feel pretty
much like my Makita but the motor/gear noise is a little different. Not
bad, just different.

RonB


"John Doe" wrote in message
...

I have a Skil 12 V cordless drill purchased for about $50 (US) a few
years ago. I guess it doesn't even have a part number, it just says
Variable Speed 12 Volts. It has seven torque settings plus the drill
setting. Besides foreword, stop, and reverse, there are no other
functions.

I'm wondering how much more powerful is a Makita 14.4 volt 6337DWDE
MFORCE driver?

http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=pr...t&tag=6337DWDE

Is the Makita 14.4 volt 6935FDWDE cordless impact driver more or
less powerful than that when not using the hammer function?

http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=pr...&tag=6935FDWDE

When they rate hammer tools, I think they include the instantaneous
torque with every pulse, but I'm interested in the persistent
twisting force.

Thank you for any answers.

"Leon" wrote:


I also have the 12 volt version of this impact driver. You do not
have the option of not using this tool in a non impact setting.
That said however it spins freely when there is no load. However
once a load is encountered the hammering action immediately
begins.

Oh, okay. Is that how most/all work?

Thanks for the warning.

John Doe wrote in news:a_XJg.23005$gY6.12354
@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:

"Leon" wrote:


I also have the 12 volt version of this impact driver. You do not
have the option of not using this tool in a non impact setting.
That said however it spins freely when there is no load. However
once a load is encountered the hammering action immediately
begins.

Oh, okay. Is that how most/all work?

Thanks for the warning.


That's how my Bosch impact driver works. Don't use cheap screws.

This tool makes driving construction screws 3" long do-able. Well spent
money. But Leon is right. The drill drivers are still used all of the
time for everything else. I use DeWalt, if that means anything.

Patriarch

John Doe spake thusly and wrote:


I have a Skil 12 V cordless drill purchased for about $50 (US) a few
years ago. I guess it doesn't even have a part number, it just says
Variable Speed 12 Volts. It has seven torque settings plus the drill
setting. Besides foreword, stop, and reverse, there are no other
functions.

I'm wondering how much more powerful is a Makita 14.4 volt 6337DWDE
MFORCE driver?

Just a new battery can make a lot of difference. There has
been a lot of forward progress in the arena of cordless
tools over the last few years. I think I would shop for 18
or 19 volt unless you have some great deal set up.

Steve
--
www.sellcom.com for firewood splitters, ergonomic chairs,
office phone systems, "non-mov" surge protection, Exabyte,
CA, Minuteman, Brave Products, Fisch, TMC, Panasonic and more
Check out http://www.guardian.name

I'm wondering how much more powerful is a Makita 14.4 volt 6337DWDE
MFORCE driver?

I can't speak to the comparative powers, other than recommending you
look at Amazon or try to download the product manuals. IMO, what
you're really getting when you upgrade from Skil to Makita (or any of
the other "real" brands - Dewalt, Bosch, Porter Cable, etc...) is more
metal parts instead of plastic, better quality batteries (that should
last longer per charge and longer lifetime), better service, better
chance of getting replacement parts in 10 years, better durability,
better tolerances (less wiggling/slipping), etc. Of course there are
always exceptions and you'll always find someone who has had bad
experiences with any given brand, but overall, the "real" tools should
last longer and work better than their "homeowner-grade" counterparts.
Again, these are my opinions and experiences; take them for what
they're worth.
Good luck,
Andy

John Doe wrote:
I have a Skil 12 V cordless drill purchased for about $50 (US) a few
years ago. I guess it doesn't even have a part number, it just says
Variable Speed 12 Volts. It has seven torque settings plus the drill
setting. Besides foreword, stop, and reverse, there are no other
functions.

I'm wondering how much more powerful is a Makita 14.4 volt 6337DWDE
MFORCE driver?

http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=pr...t&tag=6337DWDE


I have that Makita & I like it. Previous drill was a Skil "Top Gun" 12
volt model, about 10 years old, which served me well until the battery
crapped out. I rebuilt the pack with much better cells & bought a $40
"high tech" charger for it. Then the damned charger crapped out after
about 6 months & only a few uses & the a-hole I bought it from
(http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp, avoid like the plague) refused
to replace it or assist me in any way. Simply said "You buy new one".
His exact words. I'd say the Makita is more powerful, but not
massively. Besides torque though you also have charge life, how long
the tool will run on a given charge. They test this in the mags by
driving deck screws until the battery gives up, then compare how many
were driven. I'd say the Makita wins this against my old Skil, original
battery or the rebuild. Problem with these drills (once you get above
the obvious junk) seems more the batteries than the drill itself. Seems
a shame to have to toss a perfectly good tool because the battery dies
or can't be fed.

Dan

snip
Problem with these drills (once you get above
the obvious junk) seems more the batteries than the drill itself. Seems
a shame to have to toss a perfectly good tool because the battery dies
or can't be fed.


So where is the technology in these products? Batteries and chargers, for
the most part. And that's where the money is for the business, as well.

Ten years is a _long_ time for a high tech tool. How old is your computer?
How much of the 'old one' was really dead when you replaced it last time?

Patriarch

Patriarch wrote:

snip

Ten years is a _long_ time for a high tech tool. How old is your
computer? How much of the 'old one' was really dead when you
replaced it last time?

So you should think "upgrade path".

That's why I went with 18 V like Steve suggested. I need the power.
If necessary, I can save up for an 18 V impact driver.

Thanks to all of the replies.







--
For what it's worth. I bought a drill/driver that uses nickel metal
hydride (NiMH) batteries, partly because they hold more electricity
and are less environmentally hostile than nickel cadmium (NiCad).

Patriarch wrote:
snip
Problem with these drills (once you get above
the obvious junk) seems more the batteries than the drill itself. Seems
a shame to have to toss a perfectly good tool because the battery dies
or can't be fed.


So where is the technology in these products? Batteries and chargers, for
the most part. And that's where the money is for the business, as well.

Ten years is a _long_ time for a high tech tool. How old is your computer?
How much of the 'old one' was really dead when you replaced it last time?

Patriarch

Both the original & the replacement cells were nicad, only difference
was capacity. I agree there have been technological changes in these
cells, but to compare it to what has taken place with computers in the
same period is way overblown.

Dan

Dan wrote in
:

Patriarch wrote:
snip
Problem with these drills (once you get above
the obvious junk) seems more the batteries than the drill itself.
Seems a shame to have to toss a perfectly good tool because the
battery dies or can't be fed.


So where is the technology in these products? Batteries and
chargers, for the most part. And that's where the money is for the
business, as well.

Ten years is a _long_ time for a high tech tool. How old is your
computer? How much of the 'old one' was really dead when you
replaced it last time?

Patriarch

Both the original & the replacement cells were nicad, only difference
was capacity. I agree there have been technological changes in these
cells, but to compare it to what has taken place with computers in the
same period is way overblown.

Dan


But the thought got your attention, didn't it? Look more closely at
what has happened with battery life, charge cycles, and importantly,
weight requirements.

You're on Usenet, so you are at least some level of computer geek. ;-)

I bought 12v tools, because they work well for me, and were much less
expensive for the same levels of build quality. Very seldom do the
batteries need recharging before I do. And I do these things for the
fun of it...

Patriarch

Patriarch wrote:
I bought 12v tools, because they work well for me, and were much less
expensive for the same levels of build quality. Very seldom do the
batteries need recharging before I do. And I do these things for the
fun of it...

Patriarch

I'm still not sure price point for price point the drills of today offer
that much functional superiority over those of a decade ago, not that
I've done an A B comparison (if such a test exists, I'm sure someone
here will point it out) but the nickel metal hydride cells at least
remove a source of toxic cadmium from landfills. NiMH cells do have
greater capacity size for size, I just think most makers use such crappy
cells to start with to save $$$ (and reap $$$ selling replacement
cells), it may not amount to much in actual use. Also they don't tend
to use the best charging technology. The charger for my old Skil, as
with most nicad units, relied on the temperature of the pack to
determine a full charge, a crude method that's hard on the cells. I
haven't taken the cover off my Makita charger, but I'd be surprised if
it was all that much more sophisticated. We can agree on a preference
for the lower voltages. One reason I like my new 14.4v Makita is it's
small & (especially) relatively LIGHT! The heft of those 18 & 24 volt
monsters 'bout breaks my arm, especially with my "painter's elbow" (same
thing as tennis elbow, only I got it PAINTING! ;-/ )

Dan

You're not just waiting for the new 60 volt drills? They'll come complete
with backpack to carry the batteries.


"Dan" wrote in message
. ..

The heft of those 18 & 24 volt
monsters 'bout breaks my arm, especially with my "painter's elbow" (same
thing as tennis elbow, only I got it PAINTING! ;-/ )

CW wrote:
You're not just waiting for the new 60 volt drills? They'll come complete
with backpack to carry the batteries.


"Dan" wrote in message
. ..

The heft of those 18 & 24 volt
monsters 'bout breaks my arm, especially with my "painter's elbow" (same
thing as tennis elbow, only I got it PAINTING! ;-/ )




BACKPACK! Why that's absurd! All they have to do is have the batteries
in a convenient CARRYING CASE, then run a nice CORD to the drill, that
way you'd...

Hey, wait a minute!!!!

;-)

Dan

LOL!

"Dan" wrote in message
...
BACKPACK! Why that's absurd! All they have to do is have the batteries
in a convenient CARRYING CASE, then run a nice CORD to the drill, that
way you'd...

Hey, wait a minute!!!!

;-)

Dan

Dan wrote:

Patriarch wrote:
I bought 12v tools, because they work well for me, and were much
less expensive for the same levels of build quality. Very seldom
do the batteries need recharging before I do. And I do these
things for the fun of it...

I'm still not sure price point for price point the drills of today
offer that much functional superiority over those of a decade ago,
not that I've done an A B comparison (if such a test exists, I'm
sure someone here will point it out) but the nickel metal hydride
cells at least remove a source of toxic cadmium from landfills.

Apparently lithium-ion batteries are okay too.

NiMH cells do have greater capacity size for size, I just think
most makers use such crappy cells to start with to save $$$ (and
reap $$$ selling replacement cells),

Apparently that's the rule for lots of manufactured cordless
devices. The only common retail NiMHs are 1.2 V AA batteries, the
larger namebrand C and D NiMH cells are just padded AAs.

Nickel metal hydrides aren't hazardous, they hold lots more
electricity, and they don't have memory effects like NiCads. The AA
NiMHs you can buy locally are still rapidly improving. Duracell just
started selling 2650 milliamp hour AA rechargeable NiMHs, that's
about double the capacity of when they first came on the market.

Apparently lithium-ion batteries can be recharged twice as many
times as NiCad or NiMH, and do not fade near the end of their
charge.

Also they don't tend to use the best charging technology. The
charger for my old Skil, as with most nicad units, relied on the
temperature of the pack to determine a full charge, a crude method
that's hard on the cells.

Hmm. I thought current and/or voltage monitoring was common.

I haven't taken the cover off my Makita charger, but I'd be
surprised if it was all that much more sophisticated.

The lithium-ion chargers are more sophisticated, maybe because they
can blow up if not handled with care.

Have fun.







Dan

"John Doe" wrote in message
m...
Patriarch wrote:

snip

Ten years is a _long_ time for a high tech tool. How old is your
computer? How much of the 'old one' was really dead when you
replaced it last time?

So you should think "upgrade path".

That's why I went with 18 V like Steve suggested. I need the power.
If necessary, I can save up for an 18 V impact driver.

Thanks to all of the replies.

Keep in mind that a 12 volt impact driver will beat the pants off of a 24
volt driver/drill when it comes to sinking screws. I finally went to 12
volt 2 years ago after using 9.6 volt since the early 90's. I prefer a
drill that can be used all day long and not wear me out.

"Leon" wrote in message
Keep in mind that a 12 volt impact driver will beat the pants off of a 24
volt driver/drill when it comes to sinking screws. I finally went to 12
volt 2 years ago after using 9.6 volt since the early 90's. I prefer a
drill that can be used all day long and not wear me out.

12V is plenty for what most of us do. I have no use for the 18V and larger.
Love my Panasonic 15.6V as it handles better than my old cheap 14.4V.
Voltage roughly translates to power, but other factors come in play for a
good tool. How smooth it is when you pull the trigger? Is the chuck easy
to lock? Does it keep the speed constant? Does it feel good in your hands?

"Leon" wrote:

Keep in mind that a 12 volt impact driver will beat the pants off
of a 24 volt driver/drill when it comes to sinking screws. I
finally went to 12 volt 2 years ago after using 9.6 volt since the
early 90's. I prefer a drill that can be used all day long and
not wear me out.

Yup, the 18 V MXT is heavy ($206 total from Tools Plus). But my
secondary purpose is modular drive for a recreational device and I
wanted as much torque as I could afford (hopefully 560 inch pounds
is enough). Otherwise I would have grabbed that Makita "buy one get
the other free" 14.4 V impact/driver offer (6935FDWDEX, $195 total
from Amazon).

I really like all of the features my old Skil doesn't have...
gearing, easily replaceable brushes, single sleeve chuck, and a
switch to lock out the clutch for drilling. That's a bunch of
improvement, also available on other models. All I need is a quick
change chuck attachment and arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger, and it
will practically work itself.

"John Doe" wrote in message
m...
"Leon" wrote:

Keep in mind that a 12 volt impact driver will beat the pants off
of a 24 volt driver/drill when it comes to sinking screws. I
finally went to 12 volt 2 years ago after using 9.6 volt since the
early 90's. I prefer a drill that can be used all day long and
not wear me out.

Yup, the 18 V MXT is heavy ($206 total from Tools Plus). But my
secondary purpose is modular drive for a recreational device and I
wanted as much torque as I could afford (hopefully 560 inch pounds
is enough). Otherwise I would have grabbed that Makita "buy one get
the other free" 14.4 V impact/driver offer (6935FDWDEX, $195 total
from Amazon).
3
Just for comparison, the Makita 12 volt Impact driver delivers some where
around 1,000 inch pounds of torque.

Yup, the 18 V MXT is heavy... hopefully 560 inch pounds [of
torque] is enough.

Just for comparison, the Makita 12 volt Impact driver delivers
some where around 1,000 inch pounds of torque.

I think that's a minute burst measurement (good for driving screws),
not pure rotational torque.

In article ,
lid says...

I also have the 12 volt version of this impact driver. You do not
have the option of not using this tool in a non impact setting.
That said however it spins freely when there is no load. However
once a load is encountered the hammering action immediately
begins.

Oh, okay. Is that how most/all work?

Thanks for the warning.


No, they're not all like that. Builder who worked for me last year has a Metabo
which was normally not an impact driver, but he could throw a little switch on
it and it would start hammering to improve the momentum once it couldn't get a
screw past a certain point.

He was very pleased with that machine. So's a friend of mine who is also a
builder and owns a Metabo.

However, another guy (plumber) who worked for my BIL had bad bad luck with his
Metabo batteries dying very quickly.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

In article ,
lid says...

Nickel metal hydrides aren't hazardous, they hold lots more
electricity, and they don't have memory effects like NiCads. The AA
NiMHs you can buy locally are still rapidly improving. Duracell just
started selling 2650 milliamp hour AA rechargeable NiMHs, that's
about double the capacity of when they first came on the market.

Sadly the NiMH also have a curve of diminishing returns. I have a 12V Panasonic
that came with 2@4Ah NiMH batteries. Had it for maybe 4 years now. 1 battery no
longer takes more than 5 mins worth of charge, the other still works but self-
discharges within about a week. Beautiful machine otherwise; I like the very
sleek older 9.6 I have even better. I had the battery pack for that one rebuilt
with NiMH.


Apparently lithium-ion batteries can be recharged twice as many
times as NiCad or NiMH, and do not fade near the end of their
charge.


Drawback with li-ion is the limited lifespan. After nnn days they die, never
mind how you've used them. There are/were also constraints on current possibly
cooking them - I believe this is being improved rapidly. Considering what I
said above: so what ;-)

I am looking forward to this technology getting cheaper and more robust.
We now have walkie talkies with Li-ion batteries and I like them MUCH better
than the ones I had before with NiMH. Lighter, more compact, and they're always
in the charger - 24/7, when not in use.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

"John Doe" wrote in message
m...

Yup, the 18 V MXT is heavy... hopefully 560 inch pounds [of
torque] is enough.

Just for comparison, the Makita 12 volt Impact driver delivers
some where around 1,000 inch pounds of torque.

I think that's a minute burst measurement (good for driving screws),
not pure rotational torque.


Several months ago I drove several 3/8" x 3" lag screws in to 2x4's with the
impact driver and rather quickly. My corded drill did not have the guts.

Funny how they give that figure in inch pounds. Bigger number. Sounds better
than 47 (rounded up in true salesman style) foot pounds. Relatively few
people know what that means any way, just bigger is better. Reminds me of
the Radio Shack twit that told me one phone was better than the other
because it had more gigahertz.


"Leon" wrote in message
. com...

"John Doe" wrote in message
m...

Yup, the 18 V MXT is heavy... hopefully 560 inch pounds [of
torque] is enough.

Peter Huebner wrote:

Sadly the NiMH also have a curve of diminishing returns. I have a
12V Panasonic that came with 2@4Ah NiMH batteries. Had it for
maybe 4 years now. 1 battery no longer takes more than 5 mins
worth of charge, the other still works but self- discharges within
about a week.

As far as I know, NiCad and NiMH both last about 1000 charges,
eventually they all die.

I started buying AA NiMH batteries many years ago, about one year
after they came onto the market. I still have them all, about 18
(plus about 8 AAAs). They are many different capacities since the
capacity keeps improving about 200 milliamp hours every six months.
The only concern I'm familiar with is that multiple cell NiMH
devices can conceivably be damaged if they appear to be discharged
completely but some are still slightly charged. I guess that's a
good reason to fully charge them before installation. I haven't
noticed any degradation here.

Beautiful machine otherwise; I like the very
sleek older 9.6 I have even better. I had the battery pack for
that one rebuilt with NiMH.

Replaced the embedded AA NiCad with NiMH in my electric
toothbrush... much better

Apparently lithium-ion batteries can be recharged twice as many
times as NiCad or NiMH, and do not fade near the end of their
charge.

Drawback with li-ion is the limited lifespan. After nnn days they
die,

That would be very bad news for millions of laptop computer users.

die, never
mind how you've used them.

As far as I know, their lifespan is very roughly 2000 recharges.

I am looking forward to this technology getting cheaper and more
robust.

I think lithium-ion batteries being safer is a major design problem
also, like with the recent laptop recall.

We now have walkie talkies with Li-ion batteries and I like them
MUCH better than the ones I had before with NiMH. Lighter, more
compact, and they're always in the charger - 24/7, when not in
use.

Model airplane enthusiasts like them (see rec.models.rc.air), but
that's probably high-risk for fire/explosion.

They are being used in some new cordless drills.







-P.

"Leon" wrote:

Several months ago I drove several 3/8" x 3" lag screws in to
2x4's with the impact driver and rather quickly. My corded drill
did not have the guts.

For what it's worth. All of my reading on the subject is absolutely
positively in agreement with your opinion. Apparently there is a
great positive difference between an impact driver and an ordinary
drill, for driving screws. Anybody who has any doubt about that
should just do a little shopping for impact drivers and read the
reviews.

Have fun.

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
Funny how they give that figure in inch pounds. Bigger number. Sounds
better
than 47 (rounded up in true salesman style) foot pounds. Relatively few
people know what that means any way, just bigger is better. Reminds me of
the Radio Shack twit that told me one phone was better than the other
because it had more gigahertz.


Yeah, really it is close to 85 foot pounds which sounds even better to me.
As for the phone, we have a 3 phone set that is sold as a 5.8 gigahertz
IIRC. 5.8 gigahertz in one direction, that is, 2.8 in the other. Seems
kinda silly to make a phone that will transmit or receive farther than it
will receive or transmit. ;~) Might as well call it a 2.8 gigahertz phone.

"Leon" wrote in message
As for the phone, we have a 3 phone set that is sold as a 5.8 gigahertz
IIRC. 5.8 gigahertz in one direction, that is, 2.8 in the other. Seems
kinda silly to make a phone that will transmit or receive farther than it
will receive or transmit. ;~) Might as well call it a 2.8 gigahertz
phone.


No, not silly at all. If your wife calls and wants a favor, you just walk
away a bit and ignore the call. When she gets home and bitches at you, you
can just say "sorry dear, I was just over 3 gigahertz away and could not
hear you."

Must be to early, Leon. I can't tell if you're serious or not. Hope not.

"Leon" wrote in message
. ..


Yeah, really it is close to 85 foot pounds which sounds even better to me.
As for the phone, we have a 3 phone set that is sold as a 5.8 gigahertz
IIRC. 5.8 gigahertz in one direction, that is, 2.8 in the other. Seems
kinda silly to make a phone that will transmit or receive farther than it
will receive or transmit. ;~) Might as well call it a 2.8 gigahertz
phone.

John Doe wrote in
:

Peter Huebner wrote:

Sadly the NiMH also have a curve of diminishing returns. I
have a 12V Panasonic that came with 2@4Ah NiMH batteries.
Had it for maybe 4 years now. 1 battery no longer takes
more than 5 mins worth of charge, the other still works
but self- discharges within about a week.

As far as I know, NiCad and NiMH both last about 1000
charges, eventually they all die.

I started buying AA NiMH batteries many years ago, about
one year after they came onto the market. I still have them
all, about 18 (plus about 8 AAAs). They are many different
capacities since the capacity keeps improving about 200
milliamp hours every six months. The only concern I'm
familiar with is that multiple cell NiMH devices can
conceivably be damaged if they appear to be discharged
completely but some are still slightly charged. I guess
that's a good reason to fully charge them before
installation. I haven't noticed any degradation here.

Beautiful machine otherwise; I like the very
sleek older 9.6 I have even better. I had the battery pack
for that one rebuilt with NiMH.

Replaced the embedded AA NiCad with NiMH in my electric
toothbrush... much better

Apparently lithium-ion batteries can be recharged twice
as many times as NiCad or NiMH, and do not fade near the
end of their charge.

Drawback with li-ion is the limited lifespan. After nnn
days they die,

That would be very bad news for millions of laptop computer
users.

die, never
mind how you've used them.

As far as I know, their lifespan is very roughly 2000
recharges.

I am looking forward to this technology getting cheaper
and more robust.

I think lithium-ion batteries being safer is a major design
problem also, like with the recent laptop recall.

We now have walkie talkies with Li-ion batteries and I
like them MUCH better than the ones I had before with
NiMH. Lighter, more compact, and they're always in the
charger - 24/7, when not in use.

Model airplane enthusiasts like them (see
rec.models.rc.air), but that's probably high-risk for
fire/explosion.

They are being used in some new cordless drills.







-P.



If you techies want to know how Lithium cells are controlled,
check out this site.

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/...chem/lithion/i
ndex.html


Battery packs (Li-Ion) now have microchips in them for control
of over current/voltage, in both the charge and discharge
mode.

Makes it hard to get your battery packs rebuilt, because each
manuafacturer has it's own charcteristics for the cells, plus
they can turn off (via the microchip, timed number of
charge/discharge cycles) the control circuits when they think
you've had enough use out of your battery pack.

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...
Must be to early, Leon. I can't tell if you're serious or not. Hope not.


Serious. According to the AT&T phone features the higher Gig rating of 5.8
having a higher frequency than 2.8 travels better through and around
obstacles therefore in turn tends to travel farther by comparison. They
only have the higher frequency on the out going or in coming, I do not
recall which is which. Apparently at times you are when farther from the
base either you will not be able to hear the caller or he will not be able
to hear you.

Basically AT&T claims longer range through obstacles with the 5.8 over the
2.8. Either way this set of phones have always worked like they are hard
wired regardless of where I have used them. Our earlier 900 megahertz AT&T
phones with the longer antennas did not work as well, all things being
equal.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"Leon" wrote in message
As for the phone, we have a 3 phone set that is sold as a 5.8 gigahertz
IIRC. 5.8 gigahertz in one direction, that is, 2.8 in the other. Seems
kinda silly to make a phone that will transmit or receive farther than it
will receive or transmit. ;~) Might as well call it a 2.8 gigahertz
phone.


No, not silly at all. If your wife calls and wants a favor, you just walk
away a bit and ignore the call. When she gets home and bitches at you,
you can just say "sorry dear, I was just over 3 gigahertz away and could
not hear you."


Yeah.... However it may be that it works the other way around. I do not
know which reaches farther, the base or the phone. :~)

"CW" spake thusly and wrote:

Reminds me of
the Radio Shack twit that told me one phone was better than the other
because it had more gigahertz.

Actually the higher gigahertz phones are of newer, most often
better, design. The waiter could have stated it more eloquently
if that is what was said.

Steve
--
www.sellcom.com for firewood splitters, ergonomic chairs,
office phone systems, "non-mov" surge protection, Exabyte,
CA, Minuteman, Brave Products, Fisch, TMC, Panasonic and more
Check out http://www.guardian.name

Peter Huebner spake thusly and wrote:

Sadly the NiMH also have a curve of diminishing returns. I have a 12V Panasonic
that came with 2@4Ah NiMH batteries. Had it for maybe 4 years now. 1 battery no
longer takes more than 5 mins worth of charge

All current batteries that I am aware of are considered
"consumables" as it were and are expected to wear out,
(though may well be covered by warranty in many cases.)

Notice the little battery recycling kiosk thingie in many
of the power tool stores?

Steve
--
www.sellcom.com for firewood splitters, ergonomic chairs,
office phone systems, "non-mov" surge protection, Exabyte,
CA, Minuteman, Brave Products, Fisch, TMC, Panasonic and more
Check out http://www.guardian.name

wrote in
:

snip
All current batteries that I am aware of are considered
"consumables" as it were and are expected to wear out,
(though may well be covered by warranty in many cases.)

Notice the little battery recycling kiosk thingie in many
of the power tool stores?


At least in Kalifornia, that's due to the hazardous waste efforts of the
Republic, trying to keep our landfills cleaner...

Patriarch,
never quite certain of the real motives, though.