Having only bought my own place a year ago I've recently had a lot of
DIY projects on the go (mostly fairly tame ones) and a few months back
was forced to buy a drill when the one I was borrowing was recalled by
its owner.

I was just wondering what people's opinions were on the various cheap
impact drills around? The seem to be some makes which make only cheap
ones, like Clark, Ferm and Performance Power, others which make some
cheap ones and some expensive ones, like Draper and Skil.

Then there are those names which everyone knows, like Black & Decker
and Bosch which are more expensive DIY tools than the cheap DIY but
cheaper than the professional only manufacturers like DeWalt and
Makita (as well as much cheaper than their own pro range).

How do the cheap only tools like a Clark measure up to a cheap Draper
and how does a Performance Power drill measure up to something more
recognised, but essentially the same such as the Black & Decker DIY
drills?

Any advice appreciated (and the same question goes in respect to the
cordless drill drivers they all make as well).

Simon Pleasants wrote:

Having only bought my own place a year ago I've recently had a lot of
DIY projects on the go (mostly fairly tame ones) and a few months back
was forced to buy a drill when the one I was borrowing was recalled by
its owner.

I was just wondering what people's opinions were on the various cheap
impact drills around? The seem to be some makes which make only cheap
ones, like Clark, Ferm and Performance Power, others which make some
cheap ones and some expensive ones, like Draper and Skil.

Then there are those names which everyone knows, like Black & Decker
and Bosch which are more expensive DIY tools than the cheap DIY but
cheaper than the professional only manufacturers like DeWalt and
Makita (as well as much cheaper than their own pro range).

How do the cheap only tools like a Clark measure up to a cheap Draper
and how does a Performance Power drill measure up to something more
recognised, but essentially the same such as the Black & Decker DIY
drills?

Any advice appreciated (and the same question goes in respect to the
cordless drill drivers they all make as well).
I guess it depends on what you call cheap. I bought a bungalow four
years ago and spent over two years refurbishing it. I had a "cheap"
drill. About a year ago I decided to spend a little more and purchased
a Bosch SDS drill. How I wish I had done so when I started, I would
have saved money on drill bits and taken a fraction of the time to drill
holes in concrete lintels and "Staffordshire" brick!

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing!

--
Please only reply to Newsgroup as emails
to this address are deleted on arrival.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:34:03 +0100, Broadback
wrote:

I guess it depends on what you call cheap. I bought a bungalow four
years ago and spent over two years refurbishing it. I had a "cheap"
drill. About a year ago I decided to spend a little more and purchased
a Bosch SDS drill. How I wish I had done so when I started, I would
have saved money on drill bits and taken a fraction of the time to drill
holes in concrete lintels and "Staffordshire" brick!

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Well put it this way, I was borrowing a cheap Skil impact drill. When
it was returned to its owner I bought a Bosch 700RES from B&Q. Nice
drill, light, comfortable, but the chuck was wonky and tended to slip
on the bit when worked hard. So it went back.

I replaced it with an 850W Performance Power impact drill for half the
cost. No kit box, slightly heavier, but the keyless chuck was far
better than the Bosch. All tasks to date have been no hardship for
it.

Ultimately, if it blows up grinding through the umpteenth concrete
block in our garage I've lost £30 or so. No big deal.

I guess the question is, was I wrong to replace the Bosch with a
cheapo model or would there have been real benefits to me simply
swapping it for another (working) Bosch?

"Simon Pleasants" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:34:03 +0100, Broadback
wrote:

I guess it depends on what you call cheap. I bought a bungalow four
years ago and spent over two years refurbishing it. I had a "cheap"
drill. About a year ago I decided to spend a little more and purchased
a Bosch SDS drill. How I wish I had done so when I started, I would
have saved money on drill bits and taken a fraction of the time to drill
holes in concrete lintels and "Staffordshire" brick!

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Well put it this way, I was borrowing a cheap Skil impact drill. When
it was returned to its owner I bought a Bosch 700RES from B&Q. Nice
drill, light, comfortable, but the chuck was wonky and tended to slip
on the bit when worked hard. So it went back.

I replaced it with an 850W Performance Power impact drill for half the
cost. No kit box, slightly heavier, but the keyless chuck was far
better than the Bosch. All tasks to date have been no hardship for
it.

Ultimately, if it blows up grinding through the umpteenth concrete
block in our garage I've lost £30 or so. No big deal.

I guess the question is, was I wrong to replace the Bosch with a
cheapo model or would there have been real benefits to me simply
swapping it for another (working) Bosch?

One of my favorites elec drills is a power devil one is it because it has
bags of torque no will it drill into brick and concrete like a knife
through butter SDS no is it the superior build quality certainly not . The
reason i like it so is because it is short put a forstner bit in it and it
will fit between narror spaced joists a treat so much easier to draw cables
through if all the holes line up and are not drilled at angles

Its not the drill i would choice if was was to have just the one and yes in
an ideal world would have a right angled one but it works for me for doing
that job

Talking of cheap drills i see that argos are knocking out a power devil 12v
cordless for just a fiver at that price got to be worth getting one even if
it spends its life with just the counter sink bit in it which is probably
not the exact limit of it but close and will save time changing bits.
On that vein anyone know of a combined drill/counter sink bit that actually
works? tried a few over the years and either the drill bit comes loose or
the countersink does

Steve

In article ,
Steve wrote:
On that vein anyone know of a combined drill/counter sink bit that
actually works? tried a few over the years and either the drill bit
comes loose or the countersink does

Think it was Stanley that did a one piece one, but fiendishly expensive -
and if using them on old floorboards etc there's always a chance of
hitting a nail and it breaking. I've not seen them around for ages, though.
If you find the type with the replaceable drill ok otherwise, you could
try a drop of Loctite on the screw.

--
*I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:18:17 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:

On that vein anyone know of a combined drill/counter sink bit that actually
works? tried a few over the years and either the drill bit comes loose or
the countersink does

Now, I saw some the other day in a local surplus store. There were
about five of them in a wooden box. Looked reasonable quality.

I'd check the surplus stores around your area.

sPoNiX

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:58:52 +0100, Simon Pleasants wrote:

Having only bought my own place a year ago I've recently had a lot of
DIY projects on the go (mostly fairly tame ones) and a few months back
was forced to buy a drill when the one I was borrowing was recalled by
its owner. snip

I have been a long standing fan of Bosch, Dewalt and Makita and most of my
tools are one of those brands. About 6mts ago I was in Aldi doing some
shopping and I saw a 1000W SDS+ drill for sale for £25.00, complete with a
selection of bits. It came with a 3 year warranty (6mts professional use).
I have been using it on my new extension for taking up paths, drilling
into the house and channeling concrete. I have to say it is the best tool
per £ I have ever bought. It hasn't complained once even though I have
given it a fair bit of abuse. I'm nearly certain that it is a "Craft"
brand drill, well worth it.

I would buy another one if it was on sale tomorrow....

I was just wondering what people's opinions were on the various cheap
impact drills around?

Everyone has a different opinion on this.

Personally, I would recommend buying ultra cheap SDS and impact mains drills
and spending lots on a really decent battery drill (non-impact). I might
even consider having two battery drills, to prevent the need to keep
changing bits.

I rarely use the standard mains drill. When I do, it is because

(a) I have a huge job that would empty a battery, such as screwing down a
floor.
(b) I'm mixing up mortar/plaster/concrete
(c) I can't find my battery drill
(d) The battery drill isn't charged

I do ALL masonry work with the SDS, including drilling 7mm holes for brown
plugs (I don't use red or yellow). Throw away the chuck adaptor and only use
genuine SDS bits.

Some people have had real reliability issues with the cheap (i.e. NuTool)
SDS drills. Personally, I've found mine to be totally reliable, if unsuited
to large core drills.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

Everyone has a different opinion on this.

Most definitely! :-)

Personally, I would recommend buying ultra cheap SDS and impact mains drills
and spending lots on a really decent battery drill (non-impact). I might
even consider having two battery drills, to prevent the need to keep
changing bits.

I suppose that's about where I am. I have an old (Bosch) mains hammer
drill that I rarely use except when in the workshop (where it lives)
as 'another drill' when both cordless are in use for something else.
It's also useful for (crude) sanding with a sanding disk.

I have two (fairly cheap, a Bosch and a Skil) cordless drills which
are my workhorses everywhere. I have two batteries for both of them.

I also have one of the big very cheap Ferm cordless hammer drills, I
tend to use that only when I need a hammer drill somewhere that mains
isn't easily available.

I have (what was a) cheap Stayer SDS drill that I use for all holes in
walls.

I rarely use the standard mains drill. When I do, it is because

(a) I have a huge job that would empty a battery, such as screwing down a
floor.

I still use the cordless - two batteries.

(b) I'm mixing up mortar/plaster/concrete

I never do this.

(c) I can't find my battery drill

Me too probably.

(d) The battery drill isn't charged

Two batteries, rarely happens.


I do ALL masonry work with the SDS, including drilling 7mm holes for brown
plugs (I don't use red or yellow). Throw away the chuck adaptor and only use
genuine SDS bits.

I noticed this in another thread, it surprises me how many people use
such big plugs. I have moved from using red nearly all the time to
using yellow nearly all the time with 4mm or 4.5mm Screwfix TurboGold
(or the SS equivalent) screws. I find this works very well for all
but the very heaviest fixings. It took me a while to find 4.5mm SDS
drills but I have a couple now.

Some people have had real reliability issues with the cheap (i.e. NuTool)
SDS drills. Personally, I've found mine to be totally reliable, if unsuited
to large core drills.

My Stayer has certainly served me well.

--
Chris Green

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:18:17 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:

On that vein anyone know of a combined drill/counter sink bit that
actually
works? tried a few over the years and either the drill bit comes loose or
the countersink does

Now, I saw some the other day in a local surplus store. There were
about five of them in a wooden box. Looked reasonable quality.

I'd check the surplus stores around your area.

sPoNiX

Have had a few of them problem i find is the drill and countersink are
normally attached together with a little allen grubscrew and if you use the
drill bit in the chuckthen the countersink tends to slip or if you use the
countersink in the chuck then the flutes on the drill tend to cut off the
end of the grubscrew I even tried grinding a flat on the drill but even this
wore away the grubscrew after a while

I have a Stanley cat somewhere will have to see if the one Dave mentioned
that was in one piece is still arround

Steve

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 12:31:42 +0100, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

I was just wondering what people's opinions were on the various cheap
impact drills around?

Everyone has a different opinion on this.

I should probably have given some indication to what consitutes cheap.
I guess I was thinking in terms of DIY products, cheap being Clark,
Performance Power, Ferm at around £25 and expensive being B&D, Bosch
at around £50. Clearly pro spec products like Makita, Dewalt etc will
never fall into this category.

Essentially my question was aimed at whether there is a big different
between B&D and Bosch at £50 and non-brands at £25. There have been a
number of helpful responses but no-one directly addressing this,
although reading between the lines people SEEM to be saying the
cheaper option is fine.

Personally, I would recommend buying ultra cheap SDS and impact mains drills
and spending lots on a really decent battery drill (non-impact). I might
even consider having two battery drills, to prevent the need to keep
changing bits.

This is basically what I am looking at. I already have the cheap
impact drill but it's a heavy, unfriendly *******. An expensive
cordless drill driver seems to be the most logical tool to compliment
it with. I am also considering having two, as you suggest, and would
think one cheap and one expensive would be good.

I already have a cheap (£30) Bosch 9.6V drill driver. Makes an okay
drill and a reasonable driver - a very useful, if slightly flawed, bit
of kit. Flawed because it is not fast enough to be a particularly
decent drill (550rpm), although it goes through our dry walls without
blinking. As a driver it is adequate, but has a very inconsistent
response to the trigger pressure, going from 0 to 250rpm (or so)
smoothly and then jumping right up to 550rpm with nothing in between.
When driving tough screws it tends to slow right down and struggle,
but a little extra pressure on the trigger knocks it up to max and
drives the screw half way through the wall before you can react.

I am quite interested in buying a second drill driver (so I don't have
to keep changing bits) but figured it might be more productive to buy
a much superior one which can take over most jobs (other than ones
which require hammer action).

I'd be prepared to pay up to about £75 - any recommendations? There
is a Skil 2052 for £70 from Screwfix and the Ryobi CDD1200 for £75
from B&Q which appear to be the right sort of thing.

I rarely use the standard mains drill. When I do, it is because

(a) I have a huge job that would empty a battery, such as screwing down a
floor.
(b) I'm mixing up mortar/plaster/concrete
(c) I can't find my battery drill
(d) The battery drill isn't charged

The Bosch has two batteries, which is useful but due to the above
limitations any serious work still requires the power drill.
Hopefully a more capable battery drill will reduce this situation
considerably.

I do ALL masonry work with the SDS, including drilling 7mm holes for brown
plugs (I don't use red or yellow). Throw away the chuck adaptor and only use
genuine SDS bits.

The impact drill takes care of the masonry work - of which there is
not a lot anyway. Not much point in getting an SDS drill as I have no
real for it, and I don't want to have to buy a whole load of SDS bits.

Thanks for all your comments on this. It appears to back up what I
already thought.

Not much point in getting an SDS drill as I have no real for it, and I
don't want to have to buy a whole load of SDS bits.

You can always find some need for an SDS drill. I haven't bought a load of
SDS bits. Apart from a few large high quality 22-25mm long bits, I stick
with the cheapo bits/chisels that came with it and one extremely high
quality 7mm bit I use for brown plugs. I see no point in going for less than
brown plugs. I don't want something to be wobbly just because it doesn't
weigh 20kg.

Christian.