OK, I have decided to try my hand at dovetails for a jewelry box I am
making for my wife. For some reason I would like to learn to do it by
hand. I have an appropriate saw, but I wanted to use a marking knife
to make the lines. They have one at Lee Valley for $22. Of course,
while on their site, I looked around. Why do I do this???? Anyway,
they have a dovetail cutting aid that sells for about $50, or they have
marking guides for $20 (2, one for hardwood, one for soft), or another
set of guides for $10, not sure yet of the benefits of the more
expensive ones, have to look at that.

My point is, am I silly to be spending money on this stuff? I mean,
for a few dollars more I could get the dovetail jig on sale at Rockler
for $59. I don't do things at a production level though, so do I
really need something like this. Is it really that hard to manually
cut dovetails? From reading it sounds like the holy grail of joinery.

Thanks,
-Jim

jtpr wrote:
Is it really that hard to manually
cut dovetails? From reading it sounds like the holy grail of joinery.

Thanks,
-Jim

You'll be suprised at how well your joints will look with just a little
practice. Give it a go.

"jtpr" wrote in message
oups.com...

My point is, am I silly to be spending money on this stuff? I mean,
for a few dollars more I could get the dovetail jig on sale at Rockler
for $59. I don't do things at a production level though, so do I
really need something like this. Is it really that hard to manually
cut dovetails? From reading it sounds like the holy grail of joinery.

No you are not being silly. While I have never done DT's with out a router,
the big advantage to not using a router and jig is that you are not limited
in length and the cheaper jigs typically only do Blind DT's. Most hand cut
are through DT's.

jtpr wrote:
OK, I have decided to try my hand at dovetails for a jewelry box I am
making for my wife. For some reason I would like to learn to do it by
hand. I have an appropriate saw, but I wanted to use a marking knife
to make the lines. They have one at Lee Valley for $22. Of course,
while on their site, I looked around. Why do I do this???? Anyway,
they have a dovetail cutting aid that sells for about $50, or they
have marking guides for $20 (2, one for hardwood, one for soft), or
another set of guides for $10, not sure yet of the benefits of the
more expensive ones, have to look at that.

My point is, am I silly to be spending money on this stuff?

Yes. IMO
_____________

I don't do things at a production level though, so
do I really need something like this.

No
_______________

Is it really that hard to
manually cut dovetails?

No. You need...

1. Some way of laying out the cuts. A cheap bevel works for the angles,
a square for the depth line. You can use any protector to set the bevel
if you are fussy about precise angles.

2. Some way of marking the lines from the bevel and square. You can get
a paring knife and grind it down so the edge is only on one side.

3. You need a decent handsaw. The dozukis are nice

4. Some sharp chisels.

5. Time & patience


dadiOH

"jtpr" wrote in message
oups.com...
OK, I have decided to try my hand at dovetails for a jewelry box I am
making for my wife. For some reason I would like to learn to do it by
hand. I have an appropriate saw, but I wanted to use a marking knife
to make the lines. They have one at Lee Valley for $22. Of course,
while on their site, I looked around. Why do I do this???? Anyway,
they have a dovetail cutting aid that sells for about $50, or they have
marking guides for $20 (2, one for hardwood, one for soft), or another
set of guides for $10, not sure yet of the benefits of the more
expensive ones, have to look at that.

My point is, am I silly to be spending money on this stuff? I mean,
for a few dollars more I could get the dovetail jig on sale at Rockler
for $59. I don't do things at a production level though, so do I
really need something like this. Is it really that hard to manually
cut dovetails? From reading it sounds like the holy grail of joinery.

Personally, I don't think these single purpose tools are needed. A saw,
square, marking gauge, bevel gauge, chisel or two, and pencil or marking
knife are all that are needed. A scale (ruler, framing square, tape measure,
etc.) is useful for setting the bevel gauge and/or laying out pin spacing. A
set of dividers is useful for laying out the pin spacing and may be
preferable to the scale for that purpose.

A bevel gauge is a multi-use tool whereas the specialty layout gauges and
cutting aids are single purpose... more bang for the buck with the bevel
gauge.

Also, with a lot of experience you wouldn't need the square, bevel gauge,
scale or dividers... as demonstrated on film by Frank Klaus and Roy
Underhill. Pin layout and sawing would be done by eye!

I put pictures up on ABPW of my tools and sample dovetail joints. The joints
include through, half-blind, full-blind, hounds-tooth, and compound-miter
dovetails. All the joints were laid out and cut using the tools shown. The
sample full-blind, hounds-tooth, and compound-miter dovetails are the first
ones of each type I ever cut. Once you learn to saw straight and saw to a
line (or split a line), and chop out waste, it's simply a matter of figuring
out how to lay the complex types of dovetails out!

John

In article .com,
says...
OK, I have decided to try my hand at dovetails for a jewelry box I am
making for my wife. For some reason I would like to learn to do it by
hand. I have an appropriate saw, but I wanted to use a marking knife
to make the lines. They have one at Lee Valley for $22. Of course,
while on their site, I looked around. Why do I do this???? Anyway,
they have a dovetail cutting aid that sells for about $50, or they have
marking guides for $20 (2, one for hardwood, one for soft), or another
set of guides for $10, not sure yet of the benefits of the more
expensive ones, have to look at that.

My point is, am I silly to be spending money on this stuff? I mean,
for a few dollars more I could get the dovetail jig on sale at Rockler
for $59. I don't do things at a production level though, so do I
really need something like this. Is it really that hard to manually
cut dovetails? From reading it sounds like the holy grail of joinery.

Thanks,
-Jim


You will get an immense satisfaction out of cutting them by hand,
although it won't be free of immense frustration as well. The tool issue
has been pretty well covered, but here's a suggestion nobody mentioned
yet: Frank Klauz and Rob Cosman have dvd's on hand cut dovetails that
despite the confusion arising from two different points of view, will go
a long way to lighting your way.

jtpr wrote:

From reading it sounds like the holy grail of joinery.

It's a technique that serves a purpose... like any other technique
that serves a purpose. Nothing holy about it ;-)

Joe Barta

"jtpr" wrote in message
oups.com...
OK, I have decided to try my hand at dovetails for a jewelry box I am
making for my wife. For some reason I would like to learn to do it by
hand. I have an appropriate saw, but I wanted to use a marking knife
to make the lines. They have one at Lee Valley for $22. Of course,
while on their site, I looked around. Why do I do this???? Anyway,
they have a dovetail cutting aid that sells for about $50, or they have
marking guides for $20 (2, one for hardwood, one for soft), or another
set of guides for $10, not sure yet of the benefits of the more
expensive ones, have to look at that.

My point is, am I silly to be spending money on this stuff? I mean,
for a few dollars more I could get the dovetail jig on sale at Rockler
for $59.

This jig only cuts half blind dovetails which are great for drawerfronts.
Jewelry boxes use through dovetails. The Porter-Cable 4212 comes ready to
cut halfblind, through, and sliding dovetails for about $150. But they are
half inch which may be a bit big for your boxes. Get Frank Klaus's video, a
decent saw, marking gauge, chisel and go to it.

Look for "Dovetail a Drawer, with Frank Klausz". I found it at my
local library.

Mike

You've got some really good advice here, I'd just like to add my .02 about
Lee Valley's dovetail jig.
I learned to hand cut them with a minimal amount of tools, but decided
to try the jig just to speed the process of hand cutting up a bit. I will
say it works extremely well. Small learning curve, and the cuts fit nicely.
I thought it was well worth the investment and eliminates most of the time
spent laying out the cut lines and fitting the cuts. You basically make a
few marks across the endgrain of both boards, and butt one board into the
other to mark the depth of the cut, clamp on the jig and cut to your depth.
Then the jig is flipped over, put on the endgrain mark again, and cut to
depth. Finally, the waste is chiseled out. I do use a router jig in cases
where I need to produce many drawers, but I reach for the LV jig for just a
couple of drawers, or in cases where I want a particular spacing for the
DT's. Whatever method you choose, plan on spending some time and materials
practicing! --dave


wrote in message
oups.com...
Look for "Dovetail a Drawer, with Frank Klausz". I found it at my
local library.

Mike

wrote:

Look for "Dovetail a Drawer, with Frank Klausz". I found it at my
local library.

Mike

That's a VHS video tape. Very well done by the master of
hand cut dovetails - Frank Klausz. The tape covers a lot
of ground, multiple times and when it's done you're sure
you've "got it" - until you go out to the shop and try it.
That's when "now what am I supposed to do next?" will
happen.

So, after I'd gone through the tape three or four times
with in between attempts at doing what I think I saw,
I started making my own notes to take with me to
the bench. Four or five more viewings of the tape,
refining my notes and I had a usable set of instructions.
Thought they might be useful to others so I put them
up on the web - each page a GIF file you can download
and print at your leisure. Do what you see on each
page and in no time you've got a handcut dovetail
drawer. The dovetails probably won't be perfect
initially but practice will take care of that.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...ilDrawer0.html

charlie b

charlie b wrote:
That's a VHS video tape. Very well done by the master of
hand cut dovetails - Frank Klausz. The tape covers a lot
of ground, multiple times and when it's done you're sure
you've "got it" - until you go out to the shop and try it.
That's when "now what am I supposed to do next?" will
happen.

So, after I'd gone through the tape three or four times
with in between attempts at doing what I think I saw,
I started making my own notes to take with me to
the bench. Four or five more viewings of the tape,
refining my notes and I had a usable set of instructions.
Thought they might be useful to others so I put them
up on the web - each page a GIF file you can download
and print at your leisure. Do what you see on each
page and in no time you've got a handcut dovetail
drawer. The dovetails probably won't be perfect
initially but practice will take care of that.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...ilDrawer0.html

Wow, that's nice! Thanks much for writing that up, and for posting the
link. I think I'm going to have to give that a try....

(You do seem to have pages 13 and 14 out of order in the PDF, by the
way. Not a problem, but I was confused for a moment about how you got
the waste out from between the tails.)

- Brooks


--
The "bmoses-nospam" address is valid; no unmunging needed.

"Dovetail a Drawer" is also on DVD, which my library had. I've been
thinking about getting one of those portable DVD players to watch
instructional videos while I'm doing the thing.

Thanks for the notes.

Mike

In article , says...
wrote:

Look for "Dovetail a Drawer, with Frank Klausz". I found it at my
local library.

Mike

That's a VHS video tape. Very well done by the master of
hand cut dovetails - Frank Klausz. The tape covers a lot
of ground, multiple times and when it's done you're sure
you've "got it" - until you go out to the shop and try it.
That's when "now what am I supposed to do next?" will
happen.

So, after I'd gone through the tape three or four times
with in between attempts at doing what I think I saw,
I started making my own notes to take with me to
the bench. Four or five more viewings of the tape,
refining my notes and I had a usable set of instructions.
Thought they might be useful to others so I put them
up on the web - each page a GIF file you can download
and print at your leisure. Do what you see on each
page and in no time you've got a handcut dovetail
drawer. The dovetails probably won't be perfect
initially but practice will take care of that.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...ilDrawer0.html


Hey, Charlie, where were you when I needed you? Not just Klausz's tape
but Cosman's as well, playing them over and over again. My wife thought
I had cracked up, and I'm not yet sure she's wrong--or maybe in another
life I was a Japanese student of Kabuki dance. Anyway, what you did is a
truly great contribution, although you have to go up and down the curve
to appreciate it. Larry

"LDR" wrote in message
k.net...
In article , says...
wrote:

Hey, Charlie, where were you when I needed you? Not just Klausz's tape
but Cosman's as well, playing them over and over again. My wife thought
I had cracked up, and I'm not yet sure she's wrong--or maybe in another
life I was a Japanese student of Kabuki dance. Anyway, what you did is a
truly great contribution, although you have to go up and down the curve
to appreciate it. Larry

I'd add Tage Frid's video to the list too for yet another take on things...
and then take pieces from each and do what works for you. For example, in
most cases I cut pins first but found cutting the tails first was easier for
hounds-tooth dovetails... cannot saw why exactly!

John

In article et,
says...

"LDR" wrote in message
k.net...
In article , says...
wrote:

Hey, Charlie, where were you when I needed you? Not just Klausz's tape
but Cosman's as well, playing them over and over again. My wife thought
I had cracked up, and I'm not yet sure she's wrong--or maybe in another
life I was a Japanese student of Kabuki dance. Anyway, what you did is a
truly great contribution, although you have to go up and down the curve
to appreciate it. Larry

I'd add Tage Frid's video to the list too for yet another take on things...
and then take pieces from each and do what works for you. For example, in
most cases I cut pins first but found cutting the tails first was easier for
hounds-tooth dovetails... cannot saw why exactly!

John



I found Frid's video helpful as well, especially on the half blind dts.
(Dts? that doesn't sound right :-))

LDR (Larry)wrote:

Hey, Charlie, where were you when I needed you?

Where were you when I posted the link to my notes
every month or so since I did them a year or two ago?
They even show up in a Google search.

Not just Klausz's tape
but Cosman's as well, playing them over and over again. My wife thought
I had cracked up, and I'm not yet sure she's wrong--or maybe in another
life I was a Japanese student of Kabuki dance.

My version was more like Skoobie Do - Huuuuuuh!?

Anyway, what you did is a
truly great contribution, although you have to go up and down the curve
to appreciate it.

What you think you know is only verified when you try and
apply it. Mr. Klausz is a good teacher and even though he
goes through the steps three or more times in the tape
there's a lot of fine points that are important but easily
overlooked.

When I try something new that's a bit more complicated
than it first appears to be, I start making notes to myself.
Being basically a visual person, there's usueally a lot of
illustrations. When I'm done I understant things a lot
better and have the notes to fall back on if and when I
need them again. Since the notes are done on my computer
(a Mac), putting them up on the web where other poor
souls can find them doesn't take much additional work.

If you found the dovetail stuff useful you might want
to check out the mortise and tenon primer

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/MTPrimer0.html

And if you have a table saw, the Kickback info may
give you a better undestanding of how and why it
tries to kill you with a flying projectile from stime
to time

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/KickBack1.html

Fun stuff this woodworking thing

charlie b

"LDR" wrote in message
k.net...
In article et,
says...

I'd add Tage Frid's video to the list too for yet another take on
things...
and then take pieces from each and do what works for you. For example, in
most cases I cut pins first but found cutting the tails first was easier
for
hounds-tooth dovetails... cannot saw why exactly!

John



I found Frid's video helpful as well, especially on the half blind dts.
(Dts? that doesn't sound right :-))

On the other hand, DTs could explain a lot about the folks that never seem
to figure this out. ;~)

John

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:44:06 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "John
Grossbohlin" quickly quoth:

"LDR" wrote in message
I found Frid's video helpful as well, especially on the half blind dts.
(Dts? that doesn't sound right :-))

On the other hand, DTs could explain a lot about the folks that never seem
to figure this out. ;~)

That and those bassackwards Tail-Firsters confusing things.


- This product cruelly tested on defenseless furry animals -
--------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Web App & Database Programming

Have you had a look a tthe free dovetail template generator at
http://www.blocklayer.com/Woodjoints/DovetailEng.aspx
It will draw the template of the tails for you.