Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.tcge.org on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

wrote:

Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.tcge.org on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

Consult a lawyer before firing him.

Dave

Well, is he doing a good job for you, is he doing what you expect? Do you
want to get rid of a good worker for this infraction. Will you company
benefit if you fire him?

OTOH, you can probably get into some serious trouble if you do not treat him
as you have others if some one that got fired finds out.




wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.tcge.org on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

wrote:

Fire him. First, because he lied to the very person that hired him
(you). Second, to not would be a disservice to those that do work for
you that earned degrees the proper way.

David wrote:
wrote:

Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.tcge.org on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

Consult a lawyer before firing him.

Also consult your conscience. Yes, he did mislead you, but he does have
a family to support. I'd have a chat with him, and tell him how
disappointed I am at his lack of honesty, and that this will be
reflected in future considerations for promotions, bonuses, etc.

That alone might prompt him to migrate elsewhere. Or perhaps to do some
soul searching, accept his mistake, and become a better person for it.

You confessed to stealing some expensive clothing. What did you learn
from that experience? Did you return them, or got punished somehow?

-jav

On 17 Jan 2006 12:48:26 -0800, wrote:

Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty...

You should fire yourself for not being able to make up your mind what
to do: run an airport, run a radiator shop, run a datacenter, run a
data center (yes, you spelled it two different ways), run a gym...

Oh, and you're a scumbag, low life spammer on top of all that. I'd
take the guy that lied about his degree over you any day.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

If you feel you must do something, then tell him that company policy is
to fire, but instead you're just going to knock his pay down to what a
person with no degree would get and put him on probation.

If he's a good worker, gets along with the staff, and you like him
enough to get tipsy with, you wouldn't be doing yourself or your
company any favors by firing him.

You might end up with a very loyal and grateful employee, and if he
continues to give you good service, restore his pay this time next
year.

Finding an employee who meshes well with your staff and does good work
isn't always easy, but this shows him and your staff that you take
misleading paperwork seriously.

-Nathan

This is shameless spam for his website. He was already busted in
another group. I just happened to see it last night. See the post
below.

DonkeyHody


LOOK WHAT HE POSTED ON ALT.AUTOS (below)


I think this spammer just got BUSTED !!!!


---
From:
Subject: Should I fire this guy because he bought his degree from the
internet?
Date: 14 Jan 2006 09:31:46 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 36
Message-ID: .com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.185.93.33
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1137259910 4294 127.0.0.1 (14 Jan 2006
17:31:50 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:31:50 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: G2/0.2


A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior mechanic for
a small radiator shop I run in California. He always seemed like a
pretty competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into
work on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of
the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.


The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend sodomizing a
toothbrush
to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.


I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called http://www.diplomaforge.com and listed it on the resume
he sent my secretary. I've heard this website discussed on these
forums a few days ago. Apparently they represent universities who
grant
degrees based on "work history" and "life experience." Now I
don't know what to do. Company policy is to terminate people who lie
on their resumes, but he doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The
website he got his degree from looks like what they're doing is
pretty unethical since there's no coursework involved. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular
university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him
over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

wrote:

...

Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, ...

Did he lie on his resume?

If his resume says he got his degree frmm Fly-by-Night University,
and that is the truth, he did not lie.

Whether or not you fire him, or reduce his pay or whatever, because
he does not have the qualifications you mistakenly thought he did is
another matter.

--

FF

wrote:

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something.

Is it a legally recognized degree? If it is, then technically he wasn't
lying.

What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

He's done a good job, but assuming the degree isn't legally recognized
then he lied on the resume.

Your previous policy was to fire them, so you'd be best off sticking
with that.

However, you could always let him re-apply along with everyone else.
Given that he's got a good work history with your company, that would
logically weigh in his favour.

Chris

Good grief... he's posted this same story in 32 newsgroups!

Did he lie on his resume? If he listed the degree and where he
got it from -- and did not represent it as from an accredited
institution -- then I would consider it a mistake in judgement
rather than an outright lie.

Whoever checked his credentials should have caught it, but since
the degree wasn't a requirement for the job and he didn't lie,
I don't see why it should go against him now.

wrote:

What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

LRod wrote:
On 17 Jan 2006 12:48:26 -0800, wrote:


Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

Oh, and you're a scumbag, low life spammer on top of all that. I'd
take the guy that lied about his degree over you any day.

I was right there with you, and waited to find (your) response.

It's called guerilla marketing, a virulent strain of "viral" marketing.

I wonder how many clicks he got.

er
--
email not valid

I want to hear more about the toothbrush.
Marc

I want to hear more about the toothbrush.
Marc

You describe Thomas as competent, great personal skills, able to
complete projects better than any of the other techs, and a friend.

Now you are considering firing him. On what basis? Lying on his
resume? He didn't lie. YOU failed to perform due diligence and
check his credentials. You think internet degrees are unethical?
You certainly have a right to your opinion but that's not sufficient
basis for legal action.

Does your company have a written policy re internet degrees?
How about degrees from other places like the University of
Phoenix, which has brick & mortar classrooms and which also
gives credit for work experience. Does your policy reject
regular university degrees where credits from junior/community
colleges were accepted? If not, I doubt that you have a case
for firing Thomas.

As an employer I'd be thankful for Thomas as an employee. I've
had many employees with "Regular University" degrees who were
totally incompetent.

If you do fire him using your stated rationale, expect a lawsuit.
Which you will likely lose. And you may also lose your own
job in the process.

Art

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.tcge.org on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.g on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

No, dont fire him......

Wood Butcher wrote:
You describe Thomas as competent, great personal skills, able to
complete projects better than any of the other techs, and a friend.

Now you are considering firing him. On what basis? Lying on his
resume? He didn't lie. YOU failed to perform due diligence and
check his credentials. You think internet degrees are unethical?
You certainly have a right to your opinion but that's not sufficient
basis for legal action.

Does your company have a written policy re internet degrees?
How about degrees from other places like the University of
Phoenix, which has brick & mortar classrooms and which also
gives credit for work experience. Does your policy reject
regular university degrees where credits from junior/community
colleges were accepted? If not, I doubt that you have a case
for firing Thomas.

As an employer I'd be thankful for Thomas as an employee. I've
had many employees with "Regular University" degrees who were
totally incompetent.

If you do fire him using your stated rationale, expect a lawsuit.
Which you will likely lose. And you may also lose your own
job in the process.

Art

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.tcge.org on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

Send Your Money to that email address and wave goodby.
This is a con game.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.org on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

Enoch Root wrote:

It's called guerilla marketing, a virulent strain of "viral"
marketing.


Damn, you guys are a lot sharper than me. I thought it was a real
post. Even after hearing a few of you call it spam I'm thinking
"huh?". It may sometimes take me a while but I get there eventually.
Certainly a clever piece of spam. I'll have to remember it for getting
clicks to all those porn sites I own ;-)

Joe Barta

A college degree to fix radiators!!! GYAD!!! If that was required
there wouldn't be mechanics anywhere!! Whot a dope!!

DonkeyHody wrote:

This is shameless spam for his website. He was already busted in
another group. I just happened to see it last night. See the post
below.

DonkeyHody


LOOK WHAT HE POSTED ON ALT.AUTOS (below)


I think this spammer just got BUSTED !!!!


---
From:
Subject: Should I fire this guy because he bought his degree from the
internet?
Date: 14 Jan 2006 09:31:46 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 36
Message-ID: .com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.185.93.33
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1137259910 4294 127.0.0.1 (14 Jan 2006
17:31:50 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:31:50 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: G2/0.2


A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior mechanic for
a small radiator shop I run in California. He always seemed like a
pretty competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into
work on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of
the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.


The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend sodomizing a
toothbrush
to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.


I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called http://www.diplomaforge.com and listed it on the resume
he sent my secretary. I've heard this website discussed on these
forums a few days ago. Apparently they represent universities who
grant
degrees based on "work history" and "life experience." Now I
don't know what to do. Company policy is to terminate people who lie
on their resumes, but he doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The
website he got his degree from looks like what they're doing is
pretty unethical since there's no coursework involved. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular
university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him
over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

Reel 'em in, "Zerg Zerg LOL".

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

It's threads like this that make me want to give up rec.norm entirely.


Tom Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Don't fire him. Thank him.
When he lied on his application, he lied to a faceless company. If you want
to personalise it, he lied to the secretary he gave it to. When he admitted
it to you he told a truth to a 'friend'/colleague with whom he felt a mutual
trust developing, don't abuse this.
He should be congratulated on his initiative in getting the job, his ability
to do the job he has been hired for. Don't underestimate this confession as
a drunken spillage of the proverbial beans, he thought about admitting this
to you for some time (in just the same way that you stealing clothes played
on your mind enough for it to remain in your memory only for it to be
regurgitated as a sinful incident from your past) and its to his credit that
he finally did. He obviously respects you enough to be able to share this
with you and if this is no reflection on his ability to work in the role you
have for him (any more than stealing expensive clothes is a reflection on
your ability to suit the professional role you are in) then let it go and
enjoy the level of honesty that you've now aqcuired between yourselves. He
has grown up, its in the past, and he's doing his job to your satisfaction.

"Geo" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:

Fire him. First, because he lied to the very person that hired him
(you). Second, to not would be a disservice to those that do work for
you that earned degrees the proper way.

Why waste money on a lawyer?

"David" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Consult a lawyer before firing him.

Dave

I agree. If it is written company policy, I don't see as you have much
choice. If you don't enforce the policy this time and you do enforce the
policy at a later date, you could be in for accusations of favoritism or
discrimination.

"Geo" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:

Fire him. First, because he lied to the very person that hired him
(you). Second, to not would be a disservice to those that do work for
you that earned degrees the proper way.

You should give him oral pleasure.


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey guys, I posted this on another board and the verdict I got was to
fire him. Since I've been lurking here for a while I thought I'd post
it here for some more advice.

A couple years ago I hired a guy named Thomas as a senior tech for a
small datacenter I run in California. He always seemed like a pretty
competent worker. Thomas had great personal skills, came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility. He seemed like a pretty intelligent guy,
actually. I've even had dinner with his wife and young daughter on
occasion. I generally consider him a friend.

The other day I invited him to my house to hang out and have a few
drinks. At one point in the evening we were shooting the **** and
talking about the worst things we've ever done in our lives. I
regaled him with a tale about how I stole expensive clothes from
department stores as a teenager and he told me about how he once sent
explicit pictures of his cheating ex-girlfriend inserting a toothbrush
into her ass to her parents. I laughed and passed him another drink.

I guess he was getting a little too tipsy because a little later he
related a story about how he got his college degree in philosophy. We
don't require college degrees, but we generally hire and give greater
pay to candidates with the degree over the candidate without one.
Thomas said that he bought it off the internet for $450 from some
website called The Transnational Council for something something. He
wrote the domain http://www.tcge.org on a napkin and said that he had
listed the degree he got through them on the resume he sent my
secretary two years ago. I've heard this website discussed before.
Apparently they represent universities who grant degrees based on
"work history" and "previous college credits." There's no
actual university attendance. Now I'm not sure what to do. Company
policy is to terminate people who lie on their resumes, but he
doesn't seem like that bad of a guy. The website he got his degree
from looks like what they're doing is pretty unethical. But I guess
the degree is technically legal. Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

"came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility."

Use your brain it obvious, havn't we all done things in the past we regret?
I think you know you SHOULD NOT sack him.



On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:48:26 -0000, wrote:

came into work
on-time, and pretty much completed projects better than any of the
other techs in our facility.



--
http://www.connoraston.com

I know "there's a sucker born every minute", but how did so many wind
up on this thread?

Robert

wrote:

snip

Should I fire him because he bought
his degree from the internet instead of attending a regular university?


What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

OK, it's pretty sleazy spam. But the responses are very real and
interesting.

- "Consult a lawyer before firing him."

The very first response! How American can you get? :-)

- "Fire him. First, because he lied to the very person that hired him
(you). Second, to not would be a disservice to those that do work for
you that earned degrees the proper way."

- "Don't fire him. Thank him. When he lied on his application, he lied
to a faceless company. If you want to personalise it, he lied to the
secretary he gave it to. When he admitted it to you he told a truth to
a 'friend'/colleague with whom he felt a mutual
trust developing, don't abuse this."

Somehow I don't think these guys voted for the same candidate in 2004.

- If it is written company policy (to fire those who lie on resume's),
I don't see as you have much choice. If you don't enforce the policy
this time and you do enforce the
policy at a later date, you could be in for accusations of favoritism
or
discrimination."

The corporate lawyer's advice... CYA regardless of the ethical merits
of it all. Keeps things simple and safe.

- "tell him that company policy is to fire, but instead you're just
going to knock his pay down to what a person with no degree would get
and put him on probation."

Good one! Keep a valuable employee, let him feed his family, yet teach
him a lesson. Probably earn more loyalty for less money. But how to
explain this pay cut and probation to HR?

- "If his resume says he got his degree frmm Fly-by-Night University,
and that is the truth, he did not lie. Whether or not you fire him, or
reduce his pay or whatever, because he does not have the qualifications
you mistakenly thought he did is another matter."

A *defense* lawyer's answer - blame the victim.

- "Is it a legally recognized degree? If it is, then technically he
wasn't lying. He's done a good job, but assuming the degree isn't
legally recognized then he lied on the resume."

Beneath the legal hair-splitting lies a profound question that everyone
ignores today: of what value IS a college degree except as an easy
employment screening criterion? How can you weigh the difference
between a no-degreer with 5 years of applicable experience and a fresh
CalTech honors graduate? Is the difference narrower than we think?

Consider the aspects of a college education that make an applicant LESS
desirable. Debt load, for instance. A typical graduate emerges from
school owing about $100,000. Do you want him around the company till?
Is he more likely to jump ship at the first flash of more dough? How
can he possibly pass a drug test, unless he attended Brigham Young or
Bob Jones University? Might he be a closet Democrat?

- "I would consider it a mistake in judgement rather than an outright
lie."

A very Nixonian answer.

- "You should give him oral pleasure. "

A very Clintonian answer!

- "Use your brain it obvious, havn't we all done things in the past we
regret? I think you know you SHOULD NOT sack him."

The answer Karl Rove got.

This thread has been thought-provoking, no matter what its origin.
Thanks!

If he's a competent employee why fire him? A lot of humans make
mistakes in their dark past. This guy is man enough to own up to it.
I wish I had been able to hire employees with the obvious intelligence
that your man has.
Bugs

Read the initial post. The original writer included the actual link to the
"store bought" diploma factory. This is probably an advertisement disguised
as a "request for advice".

John

CLEVER SPAM.......

[snip]

Look at the clowns who all fell for SPAM, WHAT A BUNCH OF MORON'S


Eh LEON?


"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Reel 'em in, "Zerg Zerg LOL".

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Dhakala wrote:
wrote:
What he did was pretty crooked. I think I might decide to fire him over
this. If you were his employer what would you do?

OK, it's pretty sleazy spam. But the responses are very real and
interesting.

My favorite from another NG "Check my toothbrush?"

SPAM gets better and better.... btw send me your money cause I need it more
than you ;-) I too offer degrees.. yep designed through mspaint program and
printed off my $10 canon bubble jet... yep the same bubble jet where it cost
$20 for a new printer with ink & $30 for the replacement cart. lol... get
'er done act now.... limited sheets of paper.....

"Lu Powell" wrote in message
...
CLEVER SPAM.......

[snip]

Looks like the link isn't working right now. No suprise there.
I do think this forum has been hit by a spammer. The message is phishy.


That said; It seems the person was honest all the time. Even when he
told you "off hours".

-Nothing should be done.

Maybe I don't mind this spammer getting the word out. Though it is
shameless. Perhaps I will pick up one of those degrees. (through a
different link) Obviously, companies do default to a higher pay scale
on what is an APPARENT measure of skill.

If this is a true story it's an example of how inaccurate our corporate
measurements of worth and value are.