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#1
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Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP
tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. Now, I'm not planning on going into the woodworking business. I just want to outfit my workshop with good equipment so that I can't blame the equipment on the lousy workmanship that comes out of it! The reviews for various 1 1/2 HP tablesaws seem very good. Whether it's Grizzly, Delta, or another good brand, people seem genuinely happy and satisfied with the abilities of those tablesaws. So .... Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! Thx! Jack |
#2
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mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net wrote:
Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. Now, I'm not planning on going into the woodworking business. I just want to outfit my workshop with good equipment so that I can't blame the equipment on the lousy workmanship that comes out of it! The reviews for various 1 1/2 HP tablesaws seem very good. Whether it's Grizzly, Delta, or another good brand, people seem genuinely happy and satisfied with the abilities of those tablesaws. So .... Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! Thx! Jack I had a Sears Contractors saw. I could almost stop it with my hand. I'm exaggerating, but seriously, I had a hell of time cutting 1-1/2" fir, much less anything harder. My 3 HP Unisaw never slows down at all, even when cutting to it's max height. You might try a thin kerf blade on the under powered saw to alleviate some of the bogging down (less wood to remove). Dave |
#3
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I've got a Jet contractors upgraded to a grizzly 2hp motor. I've had
the motor stall out on 3/4 cherry that pinched the blade a couple of times. It also works really hard on 3" cuts anytime. When you start to bevel cut the, the extra hp comes in real handy. That 1.5" thick stuff become much thicker in a bevel. So if you can afford the extra dough, an upgrade would be good. |
#4
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" So ....
Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! As stated above, for thicker wood stock, but really, what it comes down to is that if and when you do come across a need to cut thick stock, even if it is only once, its good to have more HP than not enough. And as you progress your woodworking hobby, you will probably start using thicker material on a more regular basis. -- Regards, Dean Bielanowski Editor OnlineToolReviews.com http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Latest 4 Reviews: - Kreg K3 Pocket Hole System: http://onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/kregk3.htm - Incra Miter Express: http://onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews...terExpress.htm - Ozito Metal Cutting Circular Saw: http://onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews...cuttingsaw.htm - Veritas Shoulder Plane: http://onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews...ulderplane.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#5
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"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote
in message ... Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. Now, I'm not planning on going into the woodworking business. I just want to outfit my workshop with good equipment so that I can't blame the equipment on the lousy workmanship that comes out of it! Well, if you've got the lucre to throw at it, I can't think of any reason not to buy a higher-powered saw. OTOH, if cost is an issue, get the lower powered one, and you can always upgrade the motor down the road if you're so inclined. |
#6
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I have a 2 HP Grizzly contractor saw wired for 220 and cut 3" sugar maple
without any problems. "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote in message ... Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. Now, I'm not planning on going into the woodworking business. I just want to outfit my workshop with good equipment so that I can't blame the equipment on the lousy workmanship that comes out of it! The reviews for various 1 1/2 HP tablesaws seem very good. Whether it's Grizzly, Delta, or another good brand, people seem genuinely happy and satisfied with the abilities of those tablesaws. So .... Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! Thx! Jack |
#7
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A larger motor will pull:
a) a wider blade through stock b) a blade with more teeth -- thus a cleaner cut, depending on other factors c) will cut through stock not completely dry. I'm moving to a national forest in 3 weeks. When I ordered my General 350 TS 6 weeks ago, the tool dealer tried to talk me out of a bigger motor. He was trying to save me money. When I told him I'd be harvesting timber from time to time, he said, "OK. Get a 5hp. It's only $125 more". If any of these factors are important to you, get a bigger motor. GC in L.A. |
#8
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![]() "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote in message ... Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. The extra power is nice as you will not find any wood that slows the motor down on a 3 hp model. Also consider that you are going to have to go to a Cabinet saw to get a 3 hp motor that runs on 220 volts. You may find a TS that claims 3hp on 110 volts but the company building that saw also builds Vaccuum cleaners that have 6 hp and also run on 110 volts. Plain and simple for the typical TS you are gong to have to go 220 volt and a cabinet saw to get 3hp. Now, I'm not planning on going into the woodworking business. I just want to outfit my workshop with good equipment so that I can't blame the equipment on the lousy workmanship that comes out of it! If you buy a Cabinet saw, you "can" plan on cutting any wood of any thickness and not worry about stalling the motor. The reviews for various 1 1/2 HP tablesaws seem very good. Whether it's Grizzly, Delta, or another good brand, people seem genuinely happy and satisfied with the abilities of those tablesaws. There is absolutely nothing wrong with these saws. I used a TS with 1 hp for 17 years. Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! Even cutting 3/4" Maple you can stall or burn the wood if you have to slow the feed rate because of the smaller hp ratings. |
#9
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mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net (in
) said: | Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I | doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 | 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! Bevel cuts in hardwoods, dadoing, maintaining feed rates in easy-to-burn woods like cherry. -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html |
#10
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![]() "xcz" wrote in message u... As stated above, for thicker wood stock, but really, what it comes down to is that if and when you do come across a need to cut thick stock, even if it is only once, its good to have more HP than not enough. And as you progress your woodworking hobby, you will probably start using thicker material on a more regular basis. For which you will already own a bandsaw. 1.5 is enough. Thousands and thousands of them out there. The number is chosen so they can operate on a "standard" 15A 115 circuit. Extra is nice, but so rarely necessary that you'll easily find workarounds. |
#11
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![]() "David" wrote in message ... I had a hell of time cutting 1-1/2" fir, much less anything harder. I'm no Sears fan but as a Sears retiree I get fairly good discounts so am on my second craftsman TS, the one with belt drive and cast iron wing that held a router. The most recent purchased several years ago on a closeout when sears and Ryobi split the sheets. Both the older (probably 20 yr) and the newest do real good on 1 1/2 in soft woods but doubt they would hack it very well on hard woods. They serve my purpose well but I seldom if ever need to cut hardwood. RM~ |
#12
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I got by with an old 1 hp Sears Contractor's saw for 25 years. It was
woefully underpowered for most anything bigger than 1". Now that I have owned a 3hp cabinet saw for about four years I don't know how I did it. RonB |
#13
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I went from an old Craftsman 8" TS with a 3/4 hp motor to a new 3 hp
Unisaw. Never tried to cut 2" hardwood on the Craftsman, but I never felt it was inadequately powered. For really tough tasks with the 1 1/2 hp motor, you might consider using an 8" blade which does not require as much torque (depth of cut permitting). Usually, feeding slower is a satisfactory solution. A first-rate blade always makes a big difference on more challenging cuts. Also, hardwood cutting is somewhat less tolerant of misaligned miter gauges and fences. BTW, that Craftsman was such a convenient tool that I kept it when I bought the Unisaw. Sadly had to sell both. Chuck Ba r r y wrote: On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:47:26 -0700, "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote: Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. I currently have a 3HP General 650. For six years, I worked with a 1 1/2 HP Jet contractors saw. I never felt the Jet was underpowered. To rip thick hardwoods, simply make sure you've got a sharp 24T _ripping_ blade, and feed accordingly. Why did I upgrade from the Jet? The cabinet saw has a left tilt, a bigger table, easier tuning adjustments, a 52" fence, lots more vibration damping weight, and better (but still not GREAT) dust collection. The cabinet saw stays put when cutting vary large stock. I found myself chasing the contractor's saw around the shop on a few occasions. G If you can get a used Jet or Delta 1 1/2 HP contractor's saw for about 1/2 of the new price, with a good fence, you'd be fine for a long time. The perfect score would be the same saw with all cast wings, no stamped sheet metal wings. For about $300, you'd be able to use the saw for years, and probably sell it for near what you paid for it, _IF_ you want to upgrade. Your buddy is snobbing you. G Barry |
#14
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On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:47:26 -0700, "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net"
"mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote: Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. Reasonable enough. It's a question of torque as well. A brush (universal) motor has higher starting torque than an induction motor. So a satisfactory experience with a cheap 1 1/2 hp tablesaw does _not_ mean that a better cabinet saw with an induction motor would be equally "capable" with the same power. I wouldn't walk away from a good 2hp saw to a bad 3hp saw. But if I were buying, I'd specify the biggest motor that my wiring could easily cope with. My own saw is an ancient 3 phase brute, converted by the previous owner to an undersized (1hp ?) single phase motor. I upgraded it to a 3hp motor myself and regarded this as money _very_ well spent. It's much safer to use now - I feed it aq deep rip in sticky resinous timber and it just gets on with it, no argument. That's a lot better than a saw that sticks and bogs down, then works free and speeds up again. |
#15
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![]() Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? Short answer, No. As others have said there are some scenarios where it can be very handy. To mitigate the problems associated with a marginally underpowered saw: you can do the following: 1. Tune your saw well 2. Use a sharp blade 3. Use a thin kerf blade 4. Use the right blade type: e.g., rip blade, with a lower tooth count 5. For a really big cut, take multiple passes. Just about every here has owned/used a 1.5 HP contractors saw at some point and we all know they can produce fine work. -Steve |
#16
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There's a lot more to the power capability than simply upgrading the
motor. For one, I doubt the single belt drive on a contractors saw would be up to transmitting the power from a 3 hp motor. That's why most cabinet saws have 2 and 3 belt drive systems. I think your comment was ill advised. If you want to upgrade, sell the current saw and buy a new one. Bob |
#17
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Andy, what relevance is starting torque on a table saw (or any
woodcutting saw for that matter)? It can't think that it would matter at all. Bob |
#18
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![]() So .... Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! Thx! Jack Jack, I faced the same choice and ended up with a Jet 3hp cabinet. I had been using an ancient craftsman contractor saw. I loved that saw, even if it did bog down cutting 1"pine if the stars weren't in line. It cost me a little more in the long run but I have no fear of Hardwoods, Dados, Bevels or astrology. To get into a solid 2hp saw your'r close to some of 3hp cabinets. Having used both 11/2 and 2hp, I would recommend the 2 hp and would not consider a 11/2 unless I had no choice. My needs do include lots of hardwood and your needs now may change over time to include hardwoods and 2hp would allow room to grow. Besides HP you do need to consider other qualities; Fence,Wings, Table, Arbor. All the HP in the world won't get rid of the headache of a bad fence or warped table followed up with no support from the manufacture. My vote would be for a 2hp contractor/ although they are 115/230 you could get on by on 115 until you could wire 230. But I point out again that the price would put you close to a grizzly cabinet. Many like the grizzlys. As pointed out by others a good quality thin blade can help. Half the fun is shopping. YMMV ED |
#19
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#21
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On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:00:30 -0800, David wrote:
I had a Sears Contractors saw. I could almost stop it with my hand. I'm exaggerating, but seriously, I had a hell of time cutting 1-1/2" fir, much less anything harder. My 3 HP Unisaw never slows down at all, even when cutting to it's max height. You might try a thin kerf blade on the under powered saw to alleviate some of the bogging down (less wood to remove). Dave I presently have a rinky-dink Sears contractor saw with the stamped metal wings and have exactly no problem cross-cutting 3" oak and only minor hassles ripping a 30"+ piece of it. I'm no rocket scientist, but it sounds as if you were pinching the wood. On 1 1/2" fir my 40 tooth blade barely acknowledges its presence. My blade is parallel to my miter slots and fence to within .0005" TIR. I attribute that much out of parallel condition to waviness in the blade itself. Bill |
#22
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![]() http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G0576 That oughta do it! -- Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/ |
#23
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143 7/8 horsepower. If you go as low as 143 3/4, you will not be able to
produce any serious work whatsoever. Seriously, I have a 1 horse saw. I have ripped 2 inch thick liptus using a combo blade. Had to be careful about feed rate but didn't have any problem with it. More power would be nice but this works. "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote in message ... Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. Now, I'm not planning on going into the woodworking business. I just want to outfit my workshop with good equipment so that I can't blame the equipment on the lousy workmanship that comes out of it! The reviews for various 1 1/2 HP tablesaws seem very good. Whether it's Grizzly, Delta, or another good brand, people seem genuinely happy and satisfied with the abilities of those tablesaws. So .... Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! Thx! Jack |
#24
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![]() 143 7/8 horsepower. If you go as low as 143 3/4, you will not be able to produce any serious work whatsoever. Seriously, I have a 1 horse saw. I have ripped 2 inch thick liptus using a combo blade. Had to be careful about feed rate but didn't have any problem with it. More power would be nice but this works. That's sounds alright and workin, but how does one find_out the exact horse power of a motor? -- Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/ |
#25
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Contrary to popular belief, small motors are not rated by output horsepower.
They are rated by input horsepower, how much power they consume. This, of course, allows variation of actual output according to motor efficiency but, for reasonable quality motors of the same type, there is not a lot of efficiency difference. Volts * amps / 746 "AAvK" wrote in message news:Gb1gf.3548$dv.850@fed1read02... 143 7/8 horsepower. If you go as low as 143 3/4, you will not be able to produce any serious work whatsoever. Seriously, I have a 1 horse saw. I have ripped 2 inch thick liptus using a combo blade. Had to be careful about feed rate but didn't have any problem with it. More power would be nice but this works. That's sounds alright and workin, but how does one find_out the exact horse power of a motor? -- Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/ |
#26
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![]() Contrary to popular belief, small motors are not rated by output horsepower. They are rated by input horsepower, how much power they consume. This, of course, allows variation of actual output according to motor efficiency but, for reasonable quality motors of the same type, there is not a lot of efficiency difference. Volts * amps / 746 Alright, volts (#) times amps (#) divided by 746 equals actual horsepower? -- Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/ |
#27
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![]() "AAvK" wrote in message news:R35gf.3572$dv.270@fed1read02... Contrary to popular belief, small motors are not rated by output horsepower. They are rated by input horsepower, how much power they consume. This, of course, allows variation of actual output according to motor efficiency but, for reasonable quality motors of the same type, there is not a lot of efficiency difference. Volts * amps / 746 Alright, volts (#) times amps (#) divided by 746 equals actual horsepower? No to both. Power consumption is one way of rating. So many watts. Doesn't tell how well they are converted to energy. Power output another. Some go with "developed" HP, which is pretty optimistic. What's on the nameplate is generally pretty good. This a good thing to read. http://www.iprocessmart.com/leeson/l..._reference.htm |
#28
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Yes, (before anybody jumps in to say it, yes, 1 horsepower is actually equal
to 745.6998 watts. Also, power factor has little use in this context). "AAvK" wrote in message news:R35gf.3572$dv.270@fed1read02... Contrary to popular belief, small motors are not rated by output horsepower. They are rated by input horsepower, how much power they consume. This, of course, allows variation of actual output according to motor efficiency but, for reasonable quality motors of the same type, there is not a lot of efficiency difference. Volts * amps / 746 Alright, volts (#) times amps (#) divided by 746 equals actual horsepower? -- Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/ |
#29
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On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:09:01 -0800, "AAvK" wrote:
143 7/8 horsepower. If you go as low as 143 3/4, you will not be able to produce any serious work whatsoever. Seriously, I have a 1 horse saw. I have ripped 2 inch thick liptus using a combo blade. Had to be careful about feed rate but didn't have any problem with it. More power would be nice but this works. That's sounds alright and workin, but how does one find_out the exact horse power of a motor? you don't. there are so many ways to calculate horsepower that the term is almost meaningless. a much more useful number for small power tools is watts. |
#30
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Somebody wrote:
That's sounds alright and workin, but how does one find_out the exact horse power of a motor? You set up a pony brake to measure foot lbs of absorbed power per unit of time as well as the necessary electrical instrumentation to measure input volts, amps and power factor. You now crunch the data with your handy dandy slide rule, then plot electrical data vs mechanical data. I won't tell you how long ago we did this as a mechanical enginering lab project, but the slide rule comment should give you a clue. Lew |
#31
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Lew Hodgett wrote:
Somebody wrote: That's sounds alright and workin, but how does one find_out the exact horse power of a motor? You set up a pony brake to measure foot lbs of absorbed power per unit of time as well as the necessary electrical instrumentation to measure input volts, amps and power factor. You now crunch the data with your handy dandy slide rule, then plot electrical data vs mechanical data. I won't tell you how long ago we did this as a mechanical enginering lab project, but the slide rule comment should give you a clue. Well, since they are selling on e-bay as "Old, Rare, Vintage, Antique Slide Rule - L@@K!", you must be an Antique. Wait a minute, I started with a slide rule. Guess that makes me an Antique too! Unfortunately there are a zillion of them out there. Slide Rules, that is. |
#32
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![]() "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:yBegf.12559$a62.12024@trnddc07... Well, since they are selling on e-bay as "Old, Rare, Vintage, Antique Slide Rule - L@@K!", you must be an Antique. Wait a minute, I started with a slide rule. Guess that makes me an Antique too! Unfortunately there are a zillion of them out there. Slide Rules, that is. I still have a couple of the less common circular types. Also an old celestial computer, though the epoch is a few back. Wonder if there's a market on e-b for them? |
#33
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George wrote:
I still have a couple of the less common circular types. They still sell circular slide rules every day! http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&CATID=171&Product_ID=1197&coun t=1&Pcount=2&DETAIL=1 Barry |
#34
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![]() "B a r r y" wrote in message .. . George wrote: I still have a couple of the less common circular types. They still sell circular slide rules every day! http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&CATID=171&Product_ID=1197&coun t=1&Pcount=2&DETAIL=1 Ayup, my old Jeppeson CR-3 lived in the lower left leg pocket of my flight suit for years. It's only incidentally a slide rule, however. I liked it because it had both polar and rectangular drift methods on the wind face. http://aviationaccessories.net/pro36406.html The aluminum E6B type Sam gave me was unnecessarily bulky, and you had to slip and slide.... |
#35
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I have a vintage Unisaw with a 1HP Repulsion-Induction motor (the
bullet). My blade is a Forrest WWII and I recently had to do some cuts on a bunch of 4 X 4 PT pieces which included ripping them to an exact 3" width. Nary a hiccup, although they are not oak. Still, there's horsepower, and then there's horse-power. If you're buying a (new) cabinet saw, 3HP should be the minimum. If it's a contractor saw with a single (normal) belt, I think 1½ HP would work out OK for most homeowner stuff, but if you're thinking hybrid (like a Craftsman zip code saw)... I'd imagine the wider, serpentine belt would help on anything really tough. For the money you'd spend on a "better" contractor-style saw, you can often find a quality used cabinet saw. But you have to have some patience to wait out the best buys. Even if a minor rebuild is necessary, you'll wind up with a saw that looks and cuts like a $2000 new saw and it'd be hard to spend $900 on a decent used cabinet saw. On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:47:26 -0700, "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" "mywebaccts (at) PLUGcomcast.net" wrote: Okay, a friend of mine has been admonishing me not to buy a 1 1/2 HP tablesaw. He says that a minimum of 3 HP is warranted for any decent tablesaw. Now, I'm not planning on going into the woodworking business. I just want to outfit my workshop with good equipment so that I can't blame the equipment on the lousy workmanship that comes out of it! The reviews for various 1 1/2 HP tablesaws seem very good. Whether it's Grizzly, Delta, or another good brand, people seem genuinely happy and satisfied with the abilities of those tablesaws. So .... Can anyone tell me why the extra horsepower would be needed? I doubt that I'll ever be cutting through anything thicker than 1 1/2". Heck, I'm not even sure how often I'd be doing that much! Thx! Jack |
#36
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3 HP
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#37
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"George" George@least wrote:
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:yBegf.12559$a62.12024@trnddc07... Well, since they are selling on e-bay as "Old, Rare, Vintage, Antique Slide Rule - L@@K!", you must be an Antique. Wait a minute, I started with a slide rule. Guess that makes me an Antique too! Unfortunately there are a zillion of them out there. Slide Rules, that is. I still have a couple of the less common circular types. Also an old celestial computer, though the epoch is a few back. Wonder if there's a market on e-b for them? Last time I looked there were something like 500 for sale. Take a look at the closed auctions. A very select few bring in fairly good money. |
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horse power, rpm, and torque | Woodturning | |||
If you had $400 and needed a router/lift setup.... | Woodworking |