Hello,

I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue, 350 of
grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

- use a dado blade on my table saw where I have a lot of power and a big
blade to do the work?
- use t&g bit on my router, which is more precise, but might dull the bit,
and will put a lot of strain on my poor little PC unit?

so, what are your suggestions?

regards, cyrille

Cyrille de Br=E9bisson wrote:
Hello,

I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue, 350 of
grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

- use a dado blade on my table saw where I have a lot of power and a big
blade to do the work?
- use t&g bit on my router, which is more precise, but might dull the bit,
and will put a lot of strain on my poor little PC unit?

so, what are your suggestions?

regards, cyrille
TS would be my choice, but I have a T&G setup with my old Craftsman
moulding head cutter. ( I do believe they are still availablefor sale &
the T&G cutter came as part of the set) The only caveat is that you
need to use hold downs & featherboards. I don't like using a dado blade
for T&G- You didn't mention how wide, thick and long the boards are.
If the boards are overly long & have to stay that way, or if they are
much wider than 6" I would reevaluate my opinion. If you have to use
the router-- hey that's what tools are for. I'm sure your PC will be
up to it.=20
Phil

Guess who wrote in
:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:46:06 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
wrote:

I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue, 350
of grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

- use a dado blade on my table saw where I have a lot of power and a
big blade to do the work?
- use t&g bit on my router, which is more precise, but might dull the
bit, and will put a lot of strain on my poor little PC unit?

Start with the saw and cut close. Finish with the router. Depending
on your equipment, but I'd do several passes, perhaps with a normal
wide-kerf carbide, and not try to gouge all out at once with a dado.
Either way, take more than one pass, and finish with the router.



Whichever method you choose, consider that control of the stock and feed
rates will have a major effect on the quality of the results, and the
safety to the operator.

A pro shop would likely use a power feeder on something looking a lot like
a shaper.

Keep in mind that jatoba is way up the hardness scale...

Patriarch

Dado cutter will remove material with much less input work. Easier on
motor & tool. And you. Much faster, besides.

Be sure you've got adequate DC ready for the stream.

HTH,
J

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:46:06 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
wrote:

I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue, 350 of
grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

- use a dado blade on my table saw where I have a lot of power and a big
blade to do the work?
- use t&g bit on my router, which is more precise, but might dull the bit,
and will put a lot of strain on my poor little PC unit?

Start with the saw and cut close. Finish with the router. Depending
on your equipment, but I'd do several passes, perhaps with a normal
wide-kerf carbide, and not try to gouge all out at once with a dado.
Either way, take more than one pass, and finish with the router.

Patriarch wrote:

Guess who wrote in
:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:46:06 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
wrote:

I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue, 350
of grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

....

Whichever method you choose, consider that control of the stock and feed
rates will have a major effect on the quality of the results, and the
safety to the operator.

A pro shop would likely use a power feeder on something looking a lot like
a shaper.

Keep in mind that jatoba is way up the hardness scale...

That's what I'd use but I suspect OP doesn't have that option unless
this looks like a good (enough) excuse...

Duane Bozarth wrote in
:

Patriarch wrote:

Guess who wrote in
:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:46:06 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
wrote:

I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue,
350 of grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

...

Whichever method you choose, consider that control of the stock and
feed rates will have a major effect on the quality of the results,
and the safety to the operator.

A pro shop would likely use a power feeder on something looking a lot
like a shaper.

Keep in mind that jatoba is way up the hardness scale...

That's what I'd use but I suspect OP doesn't have that option unless
this looks like a good (enough) excuse...


My estimate is that this is probably about US$1k in materials cost. And
this is a big project, no matter how you look at it, for a hobby guy.
I'm one of those, for certain.

Do it carefully, Cyrille.

Patriarch

Patriarch wrote:

Duane Bozarth wrote in
:

Patriarch wrote:

Guess who wrote in
:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:46:06 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
wrote:

I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue,
350 of grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

...

Whichever method you choose, consider that control of the stock and
feed rates will have a major effect on the quality of the results,
and the safety to the operator.

A pro shop would likely use a power feeder on something looking a lot
like a shaper.

Keep in mind that jatoba is way up the hardness scale...

That's what I'd use but I suspect OP doesn't have that option unless
this looks like a good (enough) excuse...


My estimate is that this is probably about US$1k in materials cost. And
this is a big project, no matter how you look at it, for a hobby guy.
I'm one of those, for certain.

Do it carefully, Cyrille.

Yes, indeedy, that's first and foremost...

For a real answer regarding how I'd do it by hand, I'd like to know the
size of the pieces (length, width, thickness) and the size of the T&G.
Plus, it would be helpful to know the toolset available.

A 1/4" groove on 10-ft or less 3/4" stock of 6" or less width I'd
probably cut w/ the help of a jig/featherboard/infeed/outfeed tables on
the tablesaw--but I have a 5hp PM66. If I only had a very small
contractor setup, I'd probably rethink that entirely.

I've done a lot of moulding of similar nature w/ the RAS and a moulding
head in the past, but I suspect Cyrille doesn't have one of those,
either....I've used the moulding head on the tablesaw or set up
double-bladed cuts as for tenoning to do such things, as well.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:46:06 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
wrote:

I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue, 350 of
grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?


so, what are your suggestions?

It might depend on how much detail you want the T&G to have. Do you
need a bevel at the joint or just a simple square T&G. If it's just a
simple square T&G it could be cut easily with a table saw assuming the
material is not to hard to handle.
If you need to buy bits or cutters I would suggest calling the local
millwork to see what they would charge you to run it. They will have
T&G cutters and if the material is clean and straight (so they don't
have to spend time prepping it) the cost might not be prohibitive. I
would guess not much more than a couple of bits and a new router if
you happen to burn yours up.

Mike O.

Cyrille,

I would suggest a money savings here. Not a bank wad full but with 700
board feet of expensive wood I would go with a spline and grove. The
spline could be done with a much cheaper wood and you will get the same
results without wasting 3/4" to 1/2" of material for each joint. Just
make sure you use a wood with the same expansion/contraction
compatability.

Roy

"Cyrille de Brébisson" wrote in
:

hello,

THAT IS A GRAT IDEA!!!!
and it will reduce greatly the chances of crapping out my tongue/grove
fitting!

whoever you are roy, you are a champ!

thanks, cyrille

"ROYNEU" wrote in message
oups.com...
Cyrille,

I would suggest a money savings here. Not a bank wad full but with
700 board feet of expensive wood I would go with a spline and grove.
The spline could be done with a much cheaper wood and you will get
the same results without wasting 3/4" to 1/2" of material for each
joint. Just make sure you use a wood with the same
expansion/contraction compatability.

Roy


And only one machine setup, too. Look for a '3-winged slot cutter',
1/2" shank, for your router, in the appropriate slot cutting size.
Bearing guided, or use a fence, even if it's home built, on the router
table, to control cutting depth.

You still want to use feather boards to hold down that stock against the
table.

Patriarch

"Cyrille de Brébisson" wrote:

hello,

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:46:06 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue,
350 of grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

Whichever method you choose, consider that control of the stock and
feed rates will have a major effect on the quality of the results,
and the safety to the operator.

A pro shop would likely use a power feeder on something looking a lot
like a shaper.

Keep in mind that jatoba is way up the hardness scale...


My estimate is that this is probably about US$1k in materials cost. And
this is a big project, no matter how you look at it, for a hobby guy.
I'm one of those, for certain.

actually, $700

Do it carefully, Cyrille.

For a real answer regarding how I'd do it by hand, I'd like to know the
size of the pieces (length, width, thickness) and the size of the T&G.
Plus, it would be helpful to know the toolset available.
I cut the boards to around 5ft long, and they vary in width from 4.5'' to
6.5''

You don't say--I presume this is 3/4" stock w/ a 1/4" T&G? You making
flooring or something else? Answer to that is -- do you want the tongue
centered or offset?

$99 Ryobi table saw with custom build crappy outfeed table
uneven dirt floor
shop vac
PC router (1 1/4hp I think) with a semi flat table
$30 Harbor freight dadoo blade

Of the above, the most limiting is undoubtedly the crappy blade. You
need a good quality blade and the saw tuned up.

Assuming the 3/4" thickness, the size is small enough to handle
reasonably easily. If you've gone really cheap w/ router bits as well,
they won't work any better than the cheap saw blade. You spent a lot of
money on material, why be so chintzy on the tool and ruin that
investment?

I've done a lot of moulding of similar nature w/ the RAS and a moulding
head in the past, but I suspect Cyrille doesn't have one of those,
either....I've used the moulding head on the tablesaw or set up
double-bladed cuts as for tenoning to do such things, as well.
I would love to have such a thing! but I do not know if my table saw would
support it anyway...

regards, cyrille

"Cyrille de Brébisson" wrote:

hello,

THAT IS A GRAT IDEA!!!!
and it will reduce greatly the chances of crapping out my tongue/grove
fitting!

whoever you are roy, you are a champ!

Remember my other note regarding getting a decent blade and tuning up
the saw, though...

hello,


On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:46:06 GMT, "Cyrille de Brébisson"
I need to make 350lf of tongue and grove in Jatoba (356 of tongue,
350 of grove), and was wondering what was the best approach?

Whichever method you choose, consider that control of the stock and
feed rates will have a major effect on the quality of the results,
and the safety to the operator.

A pro shop would likely use a power feeder on something looking a lot
like a shaper.

Keep in mind that jatoba is way up the hardness scale...


My estimate is that this is probably about US$1k in materials cost. And
this is a big project, no matter how you look at it, for a hobby guy.
I'm one of those, for certain.

actually, $700

Do it carefully, Cyrille.

For a real answer regarding how I'd do it by hand, I'd like to know the
size of the pieces (length, width, thickness) and the size of the T&G.
Plus, it would be helpful to know the toolset available.
I cut the boards to around 5ft long, and they vary in width from 4.5'' to
6.5''
$99 Ryobi table saw with custom build crappy outfeed table
uneven dirt floor
shop vac
PC router (1 1/4hp I think) with a semi flat table
$30 Harbor freight dadoo blade

I've done a lot of moulding of similar nature w/ the RAS and a moulding
head in the past, but I suspect Cyrille doesn't have one of those,
either....I've used the moulding head on the tablesaw or set up
double-bladed cuts as for tenoning to do such things, as well.
I would love to have such a thing! but I do not know if my table saw would
support it anyway...

regards, cyrille

hello,

THAT IS A GRAT IDEA!!!!
and it will reduce greatly the chances of crapping out my tongue/grove
fitting!

whoever you are roy, you are a champ!

thanks, cyrille

"ROYNEU" wrote in message
oups.com...
Cyrille,

I would suggest a money savings here. Not a bank wad full but with 700
board feet of expensive wood I would go with a spline and grove. The
spline could be done with a much cheaper wood and you will get the same
results without wasting 3/4" to 1/2" of material for each joint. Just
make sure you use a wood with the same expansion/contraction
compatability.

Roy

Patriarch wrote:

"Cyrille de Brébisson" wrote in
:

hello,

THAT IS A GRAT IDEA!!!!
and it will reduce greatly the chances of crapping out my tongue/grove
fitting!

whoever you are roy, you are a champ!

thanks, cyrille

"ROYNEU" wrote in message
oups.com...
Cyrille,

I would suggest a money savings here. Not a bank wad full but with
700 board feet of expensive wood I would go with a spline and grove.
The spline could be done with a much cheaper wood and you will get
the same results without wasting 3/4" to 1/2" of material for each
joint. Just make sure you use a wood with the same
expansion/contraction compatability.

Roy


And only one machine setup, too. Look for a '3-winged slot cutter',
1/2" shank, for your router, in the appropriate slot cutting size.
Bearing guided, or use a fence, even if it's home built, on the router
table, to control cutting depth.

You still want to use feather boards to hold down that stock against the
table.

Only possible rub would be the end purpose -- if it's for flooring or
siding or some such and want hidden fasteners, the tounge provides a
convenient nailing place. Not impossible w/ the groove, but not quite
as simple. Of course, if face nailing hidden w/ plugs or other
technique is acceptable, then no problem....

Just reinforces that complete answers require full knowledge of
objective...

Not a rub at all. The spline is installed into one board glued and left
to dry before installing. The spline is nailed the same as the tongue
would have been. Works the same.


Roy

ROYNEU wrote:

Not a rub at all. The spline is installed into one board glued and left
to dry before installing. The spline is nailed the same as the tongue
would have been. Works the same.

Roy

That's pretty time consuming, but certainly it can work.

OTOH, if the spline is snug one could toenail w/o glue. If I were doing
it, I'd probably do it that way...only possible problem is possibility
of the spline tending to split owing to be small piece. But, yes, I'll
grant it can work.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:16:45 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

Patriarch wrote:

"Cyrille de Brébisson" wrote in
:

hello,

THAT IS A GRAT IDEA!!!!
and it will reduce greatly the chances of crapping out my tongue/grove
fitting!

whoever you are roy, you are a champ!

thanks, cyrille

"ROYNEU" wrote in message
oups.com...
Cyrille,

I would suggest a money savings here. Not a bank wad full but with
700 board feet of expensive wood I would go with a spline and grove.
The spline could be done with a much cheaper wood and you will get
the same results without wasting 3/4" to 1/2" of material for each
joint. Just make sure you use a wood with the same
expansion/contraction compatability.

Roy


And only one machine setup, too. Look for a '3-winged slot cutter',
1/2" shank, for your router, in the appropriate slot cutting size.
Bearing guided, or use a fence, even if it's home built, on the router
table, to control cutting depth.

You still want to use feather boards to hold down that stock against the
table.

Only possible rub would be the end purpose -- if it's for flooring or
siding or some such and want hidden fasteners, the tounge provides a
convenient nailing place. Not impossible w/ the groove, but not quite
as simple. Of course, if face nailing hidden w/ plugs or other
technique is acceptable, then no problem....

Just reinforces that complete answers require full knowledge of
objective...



why?

seat spline, nail, seat spline, nail....