I am turning a red oak bowl and have several cracks that have developed.
What is the best way to repair this? I have heard of epoxy being used but
don't know what type or where to get it. Any thoughts would be appricated.

George

I am turning a red oak bowl and have several cracks that have developed.
What is the best way to repair this?

You can use the two part epoxies available at most hardware stores and home
centers. You can color these with artist's acrylic (it does not take much) or
you can add powdered stone ( eg turquoise, malachite, lapis) or brass (swarf
from key grinding, usually free from people who grind keys). As an alternate,
pack the crack with the stone or whateve and drip on thin CA glue. CA stains
some woods,(I don't know about red oak), test on scrap and if it stains, seal
the area around the crack with Deft or a similar product befor you inlay the
crack

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

Bluntly, there is no unsightly way to repair a cracked bowl.
Cracked bowls are look at on a case by case basis.
Epoxy does not adhere well on oily and porous wood. Traditionally, acetone
is used to remove oxidation and natural oil before using epoxy. Even at
that teak and oak need mechanical devices (screws, dowels and joinery) to
provide a good bonding.
Depending on the structural nature of the cracks many woodturners do take
advantage of these hairline openings. Providing that the structure of the
bowl is sound, the cracks are filled with CA clue to enhance the beauty of
the bowl. Filling agents are sometime used with colors according to the
taste of the woodturner. The other day I was working at finishing a cracked
bowl when a piece of red oak went airborne and struck my face shield. Since
then many of the cracked bowls go directly into the woodstove. When making
the rough blanks I try to make sure that the pit is completely removed and
no apparent cracks are present before coating with Anchorseal.

"Frosty Thunder" wrote in message
...
I am turning a red oak bowl and have several cracks that have developed.
What is the best way to repair this? I have heard of epoxy being used but
don't know what type or where to get it. Any thoughts would be
appricated.

George

"Am turning" seems to suggest over a period of time. As the cracks are
certainly the result of green wood drying, your best advice is to schedule
your turning to get the center out immediately after turning the outside.
Failing that, bag your bowl in plastic when not working - I'll let Leif
offer his alternative - to hold moisture.

Now, are the "cracks" just end checks caused by surface dryness, or are they
the biggies that run through where the wall will be? If the former, turn
them away and dry with care. If the latter, lots of advice, but red oak is
not precious enough, in my opinion, to go to such lengths as others have
mentioned. If it's otherwise ordinary wood, pitch and begin anew. If
highly figured, have at it with either CA or Epoxy-supported fill,
remembering that highly contrasting is usually preferable to similar.

"Frosty Thunder" wrote in message
...
I am turning a red oak bowl and have several cracks that have developed.
What is the best way to repair this? I have heard of epoxy being used but
don't know what type or where to get it. Any thoughts would be
appricated.

George

In article , kip055
@aol.com says...
I am turning a red oak bowl and have several cracks that have developed.
What is the best way to repair this?

You can use the two part epoxies available at most hardware stores and home
centers. You can color these with artist's acrylic (it does not take much) or
you can add powdered stone ( eg turquoise, malachite, lapis) or brass (swarf
from key grinding, usually free from people who grind keys). As an alternate,
pack the crack with the stone or whateve and drip on thin CA glue. CA stains
some woods,(I don't know about red oak), test on scrap and if it stains, seal
the area around the crack with Deft or a similar product befor you inlay the
crack

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

Kip,

Where do you find the crushed stone that you have mentioned? I have
tried all of the rock and gem shops that are in the local Dallas/Ft.
Worth area and even did a couple of searches on the Internet for
"crushed gem stones", but no luck.
--
All the best,

Michael Mastin
Curly Woods
1006-B North Tennessee
McKinney, Texas 75069
Toll-free866)679-6637 (866-Mr.Woods)
http://www.curlywoods.com

Where do you find the crushed stone that you have mentioned?

Actually I have chips of turquoise that I powder up myself (turquoise and
malachite are soft enough to hand crush), but I believe that Craft Supply used
to sell powdered stone. Don't remember the chip supplier, it was someplace I
stumbled on when visiting New Mexico. You might also try jewelry maker's
supply firms like Rio Grand (in Albuquerque) or Fire Mountain (somewhere in OR)

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

Even worse than the staining of the wood, CA is so thin that it wicks
a lot further into the wood than the crack, and effectively seals the
wood and prevents it from taking finish, stain or anything else

I haven't as yet ever used stain on turnings so I can't comment, but I haven't
had probems with oil varnish mixes adhereing to areas that I've hit with CA,
either in cases where I sealed before application or not (the latter for woods
that the CA did not discolor.) May I ask what finish(es) you have observed
this with??

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

Removing the pit as quickly as possible may work with oak more so right
after the tree has been cut. With fruit wood, ash and at time oak my
mentor suggested to fill the inside of the rough bowl with wet wood chips
and then place the bowl into a plastic bag. When in doubt it was suggested
to apply three coats of Anchorseal. The other thing suggested was that when
roughing the bowl the wall thickness should be about 10% of diameter of the
rough bowl. The wall thickness should be uniform throughout so as not to
create stress points. I have noticed that the wall thickness of most of my
cracked oak and ash bowls are not uniformed and consistent. FWIW

"George" george@least wrote in message
...
"Am turning" seems to suggest over a period of time. As the cracks are
certainly the result of green wood drying, your best advice is to schedule
your turning to get the center out immediately after turning the outside.
Failing that, bag your bowl in plastic when not working - I'll let Leif
offer his alternative - to hold moisture.

Now, are the "cracks" just end checks caused by surface dryness, or are
they
the biggies that run through where the wall will be? If the former, turn
them away and dry with care. If the latter, lots of advice, but red oak
is
not precious enough, in my opinion, to go to such lengths as others have
mentioned. If it's otherwise ordinary wood, pitch and begin anew. If
highly figured, have at it with either CA or Epoxy-supported fill,
remembering that highly contrasting is usually preferable to similar.

"Frosty Thunder" wrote in message
...
I am turning a red oak bowl and have several cracks that have developed.
What is the best way to repair this? I have heard of epoxy being used
but
don't know what type or where to get it. Any thoughts would be
appricated.

George

On 07 Oct 2004 03:16:48 GMT, (Kip055) wrote:

I am turning a red oak bowl and have several cracks that have developed.
What is the best way to repair this?

As an alternate,
pack the crack with the stone or whateve and drip on thin CA glue. CA stains
some woods,(I don't know about red oak), test on scrap and if it stains, seal
the area around the crack with Deft or a similar product befor you inlay the
crack

Even worse than the staining of the wood, CA is so thin that it wicks
a lot further into the wood than the crack, and effectively seals the
wood and prevents it from taking finish, stain or anything else.

As for locating the "powdered stone", you pretty much have to powder
it yourself, which there is another thread about, somewhere on here.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

"Denis Marier" stated
Epoxy does not adhere well on oily and porous wood. Traditionally, acetone
is used to remove oxidation and natural oil before using epoxy. Even at
that teak and oak need mechanical devices (screws, dowels and joinery) to
provide a good bonding.

Hmmmmmm I think you should tell the Gugeon brothers about this because
they might find all of their beautiful yachts are falling apart.
I suggest you get a copy of their information pamphlet from Lee Valley
Tools and read up on West System Epoxy

On 07 Oct 2004 17:25:21 GMT, (Kip055) wrote:

Even worse than the staining of the wood, CA is so thin that it wicks
a lot further into the wood than the crack, and effectively seals the
wood and prevents it from taking finish, stain or anything else

I haven't as yet ever used stain on turnings so I can't comment, but I haven't
had probems with oil varnish mixes adhereing to areas that I've hit with CA,
either in cases where I sealed before application or not (the latter for woods
that the CA did not discolor.) May I ask what finish(es) you have observed
this with??

Water based poly, danish oil, cellulose sanding sealer

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

I haven't
had probems with oil varnish mixes adhereing to areas that I've hit with CA,
either in cases where I sealed before application or not (the latter for
woods
that the CA did not discolor.) May I ask what finish(es) you have observed
this with??

Water based poly, danish oil, cellulose sanding sealer

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.









I haven't
had probems with oil varnish mixes adhereing to areas that I've hit with CA,
either in cases where I sealed before application or not (the latter for
woods
that the CA did not discolor.) May I ask what finish(es) you have observed
this with??

Water based poly, danish oil, cellulose sanding sealer

This is kind of interesting. On water pased poly, one can say, OK, solvent
polarity differences. But "danish oil" (the commercial varieties) is probably
a mix of varnish and tung or linseed oil - chemically similar to what I concoct
at home and use pretty much w/o problems. Ditto for "cellulose sanding sealer"
which I am guessing is lacquer based.

Kip Powers
Rogers, AR

Thanks for your comments Peter.

I own a sailboat and build numerous dinghies and repaired several small
boats using epoxy and different type of wood.
In boat building when working with oak and teak, biscuits, screws, dowels
and joinery are using with epoxy to obtain a good bonding

When I had delaminating problems in boat building I contacted the Tech.
Department at Gougeon Brothers, Inc
Should you need more information I can email you what I received from Tom
Pawlak
Technical Service at Gougeon Brothers, Inc or you can contact them directly.


Gougeon Brothers, Inc.
100 Patterson Ave., PO Box 908
Bay City, MI 48707-0908 U.S.A.
tel: 989-684-7286
fax: 989-684-1287
URL: www.gougeon.com or www.westsystem.com




"Peter Hyde" wrote in message
om...
"Denis Marier" stated
Epoxy does not adhere well on oily and porous wood. Traditionally,
acetone
is used to remove oxidation and natural oil before using epoxy. Even at
that teak and oak need mechanical devices (screws, dowels and joinery)
to
provide a good bonding.

Hmmmmmm I think you should tell the Gugeon brothers about this because
they might find all of their beautiful yachts are falling apart.
I suggest you get a copy of their information pamphlet from Lee Valley
Tools and read up on West System Epoxy

I've used both danish oil and cellulose sanding sealer over CA glue without
having any adhesion issues.
Tony Manella
ndd1"at"prolog.net (remove "at")
http://home.ptd.net/~ndd1/
Lehigh Valley Woodturners
http://www.lehighvalleywoodturners.com/

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
On 07 Oct 2004 17:25:21 GMT, (Kip055) wrote:

Even worse than the staining of the wood, CA is so thin that it wicks
a lot further into the wood than the crack, and effectively seals the
wood and prevents it from taking finish, stain or anything else

I haven't as yet ever used stain on turnings so I can't comment, but I
haven't
had probems with oil varnish mixes adhereing to areas that I've hit with
CA,
either in cases where I sealed before application or not (the latter for
woods
that the CA did not discolor.) May I ask what finish(es) you have
observed
this with??

Water based poly, danish oil, cellulose sanding sealer

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget

Our variety of red oak, the genuine Q. rubrum, behaves superbly when drying.
The measures you suggest have proven unnecessary, even for year-old logs.
Truth be known, I haven't ever used any of them more than a few times,
because I discovered benign neglect was all that I needed. That I am more
than willing to give! I have a basement. If the NB is New Brunswick, you
should have the same available, I would think. White oak, with its larger
ray figure might be different. Don't know, as it doesn't grow this far
north.

The bottom thickness business is mentioned often, but on a bowl cut across
the grain, that 's the part under the least radial stress, which is
generated by the early wood shrinking. It's also normally tapered to what
will become the bottom, reducing actual cross-grain section to a minimum.
Wood technology says there should not be a problem. My experience is the
same.

Are the people who have trouble leaving the bottoms of their bowls thick
also leaving them exceptionally wide, rather than tapering inside and out?
The only bowls that consistently cracked for me were the ones with vertical
sides. That makes sense, since the stress developed by shrinkage between
the close rings cannot be relieved obliquely. When I used to fuss over
drying methods the first deformation I observed was a "fold" at the ends,
which would have been the result of the bottom shrinking across the grain.
This appeared prior to the upward bulge - what our brothers of the flat call
"crown"- generated by shrinkage between tightly curved annual rings dropping
the long grain edges. The key evidence that stress is relieved by shape
shows when the crown on the inside of the bowl - the part with most wood
underneath, rises more than the outside, a mere inch away.

Oh yes, I haven't yet figured out why someone would coat the interior of a
bowl with a sealer, as the natural drying geometry will close those pores,
even as it tries to spread the outside.
One thing for sure - hold moisture in too long and you get mildew.

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Removing the pit as quickly as possible may work with oak more so right
after the tree has been cut. With fruit wood, ash and at time oak my
mentor suggested to fill the inside of the rough bowl with wet wood chips
and then place the bowl into a plastic bag. When in doubt it was
suggested
to apply three coats of Anchorseal. The other thing suggested was that
when
roughing the bowl the wall thickness should be about 10% of diameter of
the
rough bowl. The wall thickness should be uniform throughout so as not to
create stress points. I have noticed that the wall thickness of most of
my
cracked oak and ash bowls are not uniformed and consistent. FWIW

Thanks for you comments.

Yes, NB stands for New Brunswick.
One more things I was reprimanded by one of my mentor is not to store my
blanks for drying with the bottoms up but with bottom down instead. That is
without anchorseal on the inside.


"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Our variety of red oak, the genuine Q. rubrum, behaves superbly when
drying.
The measures you suggest have proven unnecessary, even for year-old logs.
Truth be known, I haven't ever used any of them more than a few times,
because I discovered benign neglect was all that I needed. That I am more
than willing to give! I have a basement. If the NB is New Brunswick, you
should have the same available, I would think. White oak, with its larger
ray figure might be different. Don't know, as it doesn't grow this far
north.

The bottom thickness business is mentioned often, but on a bowl cut across
the grain, that 's the part under the least radial stress, which is
generated by the early wood shrinking. It's also normally tapered to
what
will become the bottom, reducing actual cross-grain section to a minimum.
Wood technology says there should not be a problem. My experience is the
same.

Are the people who have trouble leaving the bottoms of their bowls thick
also leaving them exceptionally wide, rather than tapering inside and out?
The only bowls that consistently cracked for me were the ones with
vertical
sides. That makes sense, since the stress developed by shrinkage between
the close rings cannot be relieved obliquely. When I used to fuss over
drying methods the first deformation I observed was a "fold" at the ends,
which would have been the result of the bottom shrinking across the grain.
This appeared prior to the upward bulge - what our brothers of the flat
call
"crown"- generated by shrinkage between tightly curved annual rings
dropping
the long grain edges. The key evidence that stress is relieved by shape
shows when the crown on the inside of the bowl - the part with most wood
underneath, rises more than the outside, a mere inch away.

Oh yes, I haven't yet figured out why someone would coat the interior of a
bowl with a sealer, as the natural drying geometry will close those pores,
even as it tries to spread the outside.
One thing for sure - hold moisture in too long and you get mildew.

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Removing the pit as quickly as possible may work with oak more so right
after the tree has been cut. With fruit wood, ash and at time oak my
mentor suggested to fill the inside of the rough bowl with wet wood
chips
and then place the bowl into a plastic bag. When in doubt it was
suggested
to apply three coats of Anchorseal. The other thing suggested was that
when
roughing the bowl the wall thickness should be about 10% of diameter of
the
rough bowl. The wall thickness should be uniform throughout so as not
to
create stress points. I have noticed that the wall thickness of most of
my
cracked oak and ash bowls are not uniformed and consistent. FWIW

Once again, a puzzlement. I avoid either extreme by standing them on edge!

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Thanks for you comments.

Yes, NB stands for New Brunswick.
One more things I was reprimanded by one of my mentor is not to store my
blanks for drying with the bottoms up but with bottom down instead. That
is
without anchorseal on the inside.

Not a bad idea.
Today I felled a birch tree and bucked 20 blanks. They have been trimmed on
the band saw and ready to be rough out on the lathe.
I'll experiment with standing them on edge ( like a book) with a slight
angle for drying.
This way I might be saving space during the drying period.

"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Once again, a puzzlement. I avoid either extreme by standing them on edge!

"Denis Marier" wrote in message
...
Thanks for you comments.

Yes, NB stands for New Brunswick.
One more things I was reprimanded by one of my mentor is not to store my
blanks for drying with the bottoms up but with bottom down instead.
That
is
without anchorseal on the inside.

I have use CA to seal a crack and the used teak oil. It left an uncolored
area where the CA wicked into the wood. It dosen't show up when you use poly
or a wax, like briwax, as the finish.

Vern
Jacksonville, AR
"Tony Manella" ndd1 at prolog.net wrote in message
...
I've used both danish oil and cellulose sanding sealer over CA glue
without
having any adhesion issues.
Tony Manella
ndd1"at"prolog.net (remove "at")
http://home.ptd.net/~ndd1/
Lehigh Valley Woodturners
http://www.lehighvalleywoodturners.com/

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
On 07 Oct 2004 17:25:21 GMT, (Kip055) wrote:

Even worse than the staining of the wood, CA is so thin that it wicks
a lot further into the wood than the crack, and effectively seals the
wood and prevents it from taking finish, stain or anything else

I haven't as yet ever used stain on turnings so I can't comment, but I
haven't
had probems with oil varnish mixes adhereing to areas that I've hit with
CA,
either in cases where I sealed before application or not (the latter for
woods
that the CA did not discolor.) May I ask what finish(es) you have
observed
this with??

Water based poly, danish oil, cellulose sanding sealer

--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget