I turned a small cherry bowl (3" deep x 9" in diameter) yesterday on my Jet
Mini lathe. The cherry blank was green, but has been air-drying in my shop
for about a year. When I began to turn it, I got short curls not long
shavings, if that gives some idea of the relative moisture content. The
turning went fairly well (or seemed to). The bowl has a fairly nice shape.
(Or, at least I think so.)

When I began to sand the interior of the bowl, I noticed that I had some
tear-out on end grain. I immediately went back to the scraper. I put a
fresh edge on a domed scraper and went to work. Well, it didn't work so
well. I still have tear-out.

I have a Sorby shear scraping tool. I tried it. It helped, but I still
have way too much tear-out. I went all the way back to 80 grit sandpaper
with little results. The tear-out seems to defy removal, (at least by me).

I am pretty much a newby when it comes to turning bowls. From my reading, I
thought one of these methods would make short work of my tear-out. I have
considered wetting the interior of the bowl and trying the shear scraper on
the wet wood. The shape of the bowl in this area of tear-out eliminates any
possibility of power sanding. How do I get rid of the tear out? Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Hi Barry. The easiest way would have been to rough turn the blank a year ago.
It would have been dry by now and would cut a lot better. Wood dries at a rate
of an inch per year plus a year.
At this point a coat of wax on the area will make the fibers of the wood stiff
enough to cut.
A coat of lacquer, shelac or sanding sealer will also work.
And as always keep your tools as sharp as possible when your nearing final
thickness.
Bob, Naugatuck Ct.
http://www.outofcontrol-woodturning.com

Hi Barry,
Everything the others suggest is true. Another option that helps when
you just can't seem to get rid of that last bit of torn endgrain while
turning is to try wax-sanding. I read about this tactic on the newsgroup
about a year ago. I remember Ruth mentioning trying it. A couple times
recently I've had to resort to it to help remove the torn endgrain and it
works. You might have to reapply the wax once or twice to the area,
depending on how bad it is.
I was doing a demo for the 4-H over the weekend at the county fair
grounds. And I had a small piece of willow to make a bowl out of. And no
matter the tool or the cut I just couldnt get rid of all the tear-out. Some
woods are like that. So I put on some wax in the problem area, and a little
sanding and it was gone.
--Jim M.

Hello Barry,

Here are a few things to try:

1. Apply sanding sealer or the finish that you will be using. This will
cause the fibers to expand; they will be in a better position to be sheared
rather than "plucked". Let the sealer/finish dry overnight and the fibers
will stiffen and stick together; again, more likely to be sheared crisply.
Sometimes paste wax is enough to make the difference.

2. Try a freshly sharpened bowl gouge and cut the fibers cleanly rather than
scrape. Cherry is only medium hard. The harder the wood, the better results
that you will get from a scraper.

3. There are even 2 part epoxy finishes, Polycryl and even thin CA adhesive
as are used on spalted wood but those should not be necessary for just
normal dry cherry.

I would much rather spend a few seconds sharpening and taking a fine, finish
cut with a bowl gouge than many minutes sanding!

--
Marshall Gorrow
Hogansburg, NY USA
http://mgorrow.tripod.com/
"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
.. .
I turned a small cherry bowl (3" deep x 9" in diameter) yesterday on my
Jet
Mini lathe. The cherry blank was green, but has been air-drying in my
shop
for about a year. When I began to turn it, I got short curls not long
shavings, if that gives some idea of the relative moisture content. The
turning went fairly well (or seemed to). The bowl has a fairly nice
shape.
(Or, at least I think so.)

When I began to sand the interior of the bowl, I noticed that I had some
tear-out on end grain. I immediately went back to the scraper. I put a
fresh edge on a domed scraper and went to work. Well, it didn't work so
well. I still have tear-out.

I have a Sorby shear scraping tool. I tried it. It helped, but I still
have way too much tear-out. I went all the way back to 80 grit sandpaper
with little results. The tear-out seems to defy removal, (at least by
me).

I am pretty much a newby when it comes to turning bowls. From my reading,
I
thought one of these methods would make short work of my tear-out. I have
considered wetting the interior of the bowl and trying the shear scraper
on
the wet wood. The shape of the bowl in this area of tear-out eliminates
any
possibility of power sanding. How do I get rid of the tear out? Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Hi Barry, It's implicit in the good advice you 've gotten, but
remember to work the _problem. ie. when cutting or scraping fails, stop
the lathe and seal, oil, wax or wet the paper and the two torn areas and
sand _only those bad areas_ til smooth. Then feather out. Hope you don't
'save' by using worn out or cheap abrasives. Sometimes sterate paper
works better than open grit. Try holding the paper in your rt. hand and
rocking the piece back & forth with your left hand. Sometimes reversing
the lathe's rotation will bring those surly fibers to attention and they
can be cut or sanded off at the knees. Now clean up by gently
shearscraping with a heavy sharp tool. Sometimes 'floating' the
shearscraper by holding it unsupported off the toolrest helps. Higher
speed seems to help me. Sometimes, for me, nothing helps except to
re-turn the interior or to 'decorate' the torn grain area! Remember
those 'soda straws' and finish cut cross grain interior surfaces toward
the center. I think the $5 word is centripetal. Finally, there may
be a place for LDD in dealing with this problem.

Recall that there are ways to hand or power sand most bowl interiors
other than with discs, ex.: flap sanding by holding small strips of the
abrasive in a slotted dowel. winding the paper around a dowel or stapled
over a domed pad, etc. Arch

Fortiter,

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:43:09 -0500, "Marshall Gorrow"
wrote:

Barry,

1. Apply sanding sealer or the finish that you will be using. This will
cause the fibers to expand; they will be in a better position to be sheared
rather than "plucked". Let the sealer/finish dry overnight and the fibers
will stiffen and stick together; again, more likely to be sheared crisply.
Sometimes paste wax is enough to make the difference.

I just turned a wet, green cherry bowl, on my Jet Mini, and had the
same problem. I used the above method, but cut the cellulose sanding
sealer 50% with gum turpentine. (This is Bob Rosand's mix), let it sit
for a few minutes, gave it a quick buff and then took another pass
with the freshly-sharpened bowl gouge. It mostly cleaned it up,
although I did have a little sanding to do.

I've tried the paste wax route too, but with more variable results
than with the sanding sealer or sanding sealer mix.

So far, I've not had much luck with my Sorby scraper -- at least the
full-sized one. I've got a mini one that is pretty effective, but the
full-sized one had a crappy edge on it when I got it, and the one I've
been able to put on it since then, quite honestly, isn't a whole lot
better.


--
Chuck *#:^)
chaz3913(AT)yahoo(DOT)com
Anti-spam sig: please remove "NO SPAM" from e-mail address to reply.


September 11, 2001 - Never Forget


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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I turn a lot of cherry, and it seems no more prone to tearing than other
domestics, perhaps it's just more noticeable.

I suspect it happens where you're turning the corner between wall and
bottom. That's where I have the problem. I found out early that a scraper
was _not_ the answer. If it's a steep transition, and I suspect it is
because you said you couldn't power sand the area, the best I've found is to
use a pointy gouge or the narrowest bowl gouge I own, freshly sharpened,
beginning in the wall area, cutting point and left, rotating clockwise
through the transition to cut point and right. Two things you want to avoid
are riding the tool on the wood, where it might crush the fibers at the
early/late transition areas, and _ever_ cutting nose up. The nose of the
gouge should be as close to vertical as possible, making the shavings
tightly coiled. Your description of "short curls" tells me you're cutting
nose up, where you take a shaving on face grain, and break it on endgrain.
This is more or less normal for some brittle porous woods like oak, but
cherry and other short-grained woods give continuous curls to a properly
placed gouge. As a matter of fact, I have to watch the finishing cuts on the
opposite side of the bowl, because the shavings accumulate in a huge mat at
the gouge.

If the transition is not so steep, I love a flat forged gouge for the final
pass(es). With a steady, even thin-walled turnings can be cut
continuously, though you have to take care not to dig in near the center.
Best to leave a button to scrape or sand.

As to saturating the surface fibers with this or that, I have no experience.
The first time I examined the torn areas, I figured out it was caused by
picking up the ends of the fibers with a gouge cutting too broadly and nose
up, and modified my technique to cut a narrow face at an angle that cuts
through rather than pulling up the fibers. I never plan any particular
finish in advance, which means I might make a bad choice of what to use to
set up the fibers, so the only set is the one between 180 and 220, and that
with water.

"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
.. .
I turned a small cherry bowl (3" deep x 9" in diameter) yesterday on my
Jet
Mini lathe. The cherry blank was green, but has been air-drying in my
shop
for about a year. When I began to turn it, I got short curls not long
shavings, if that gives some idea of the relative moisture content.

When I began to sand the interior of the bowl, I noticed that I had some
tear-out on end grain. I immediately went back to the scraper.

The shape of the bowl in this area of tear-out eliminates any
possibility of power sanding. How do I get rid of the tear out? Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

One other possible solution is to spritz some fabric softener on the
wood,allow it to soak awhile,and "lightly" shear scrape the inside with a
freshly sharpened gouge..good luck,Rick
"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
.. .
I turned a small cherry bowl (3" deep x 9" in diameter) yesterday on my
Jet
Mini lathe. The cherry blank was green, but has been air-drying in my
shop
for about a year. When I began to turn it, I got short curls not long
shavings, if that gives some idea of the relative moisture content. The
turning went fairly well (or seemed to). The bowl has a fairly nice
shape.
(Or, at least I think so.)

When I began to sand the interior of the bowl, I noticed that I had some
tear-out on end grain. I immediately went back to the scraper. I put a
fresh edge on a domed scraper and went to work. Well, it didn't work so
well. I still have tear-out.

I have a Sorby shear scraping tool. I tried it. It helped, but I still
have way too much tear-out. I went all the way back to 80 grit sandpaper
with little results. The tear-out seems to defy removal, (at least by
me).

I am pretty much a newby when it comes to turning bowls. From my reading,
I
thought one of these methods would make short work of my tear-out. I have
considered wetting the interior of the bowl and trying the shear scraper
on
the wet wood. The shape of the bowl in this area of tear-out eliminates
any
possibility of power sanding. How do I get rid of the tear out? Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the help. Actually, I'm using stearated paper. In my
estimation, the surface that I have is not ready for sandpaper.........even
80 grit. It still needs tool work. Its not so much fuzzy fibers on the
surface as it is pits that need to be leveled out by recutting.

I had tried most of the advice already. I finally re-sharpened my new Sorby
shear scraper (just because its new doesn't mean its sharp!). I made a
couple of passes with the newly sharpened shear scraper and then re-sanded.
Its acceptable. Not as good as I would like, but passable. Maybe I'll do
better next time. Thanks.

Barry

PS My Jet Mini won't reverse.

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Hi Barry, It's implicit in the good advice you 've gotten, but
remember to work the _problem. ie. when cutting or scraping fails, stop
the lathe and seal, oil, wax or wet the paper and the two torn areas and
sand _only those bad areas_ til smooth. Then feather out. Hope you don't
'save' by using worn out or cheap abrasives. Sometimes sterate paper
works better than open grit. Try holding the paper in your rt. hand and
rocking the piece back & forth with your left hand. Sometimes reversing
the lathe's rotation will bring those surly fibers to attention and they
can be cut or sanded off at the knees. Now clean up by gently
shearscraping with a heavy sharp tool. Sometimes 'floating' the
shearscraper by holding it unsupported off the toolrest helps. Higher
speed seems to help me. Sometimes, for me, nothing helps except to
re-turn the interior or to 'decorate' the torn grain area! Remember
those 'soda straws' and finish cut cross grain interior surfaces toward
the center. I think the $5 word is centripetal. Finally, there may
be a place for LDD in dealing with this problem.

Recall that there are ways to hand or power sand most bowl interiors
other than with discs, ex.: flap sanding by holding small strips of the
abrasive in a slotted dowel. winding the paper around a dowel or stapled
over a domed pad, etc. Arch

Fortiter,

Snip

How do I get rid of the tear out? Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Well, it is not using a turning tool, but in a former life (as a
regular woodworker) I had a lot of success with cabinet scrapers - you
know those flat pieces of metal with a small burr raised on the edge.
They make some that have a curved edge on them, and although it may be
cheating (grin) I have found that they are often my best bet for
removing torn grain on the inside of a bowl. I had some poplar (I
know, I know - but it was free) that I was using to turn some bowls
and practice thin turning with and the chatter and tear out was really
tough till I tried the cabinet scrapers. Hope this helps!

Sawblade

Been there, done that! Watch out for catches! Wear gloves and turn at low
speeds!

Leif
"Sawblade" wrote in message
om...
Snip

How do I get rid of the tear out? Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Well, it is not using a turning tool, but in a former life (as a
regular woodworker) I had a lot of success with cabinet scrapers - you
know those flat pieces of metal with a small burr raised on the edge.
They make some that have a curved edge on them, and although it may be
cheating (grin) I have found that they are often my best bet for
removing torn grain on the inside of a bowl. I had some poplar (I
know, I know - but it was free) that I was using to turn some bowls
and practice thin turning with and the chatter and tear out was really
tough till I tried the cabinet scrapers. Hope this helps!

Sawblade

I guess I am just too impatient! *G* Actually, I haven't done any inside
the bowl scraping in a while. I still use cabinet scrapers on the outside
of the bowl occasionally.

Leif
"Sawblade" wrote in message
. ..
Actually Leif, I did not use the cabinet scraper when the lathe was
running.
I locked the spindle and scraped a section then unlocked, moved it by hand
to get to another section of the bowl and relocked the spindle. It is
fairly
slow, but faster than sandpaper and leaves a nicer finish in my opinion.

Link to the scrapers:

http://www.fine-tools.com/zieh.htm


--
Sawblade
(use SWBell to fix address)


"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message
...
Been there, done that! Watch out for catches! Wear gloves and turn at
low
speeds!

Leif
"Sawblade" wrote in message
om...
Snip

How do I get rid of the tear out? Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Well, it is not using a turning tool, but in a former life (as a
regular woodworker) I had a lot of success with cabinet scrapers - you
know those flat pieces of metal with a small burr raised on the edge.
They make some that have a curved edge on them, and although it may be
cheating (grin) I have found that they are often my best bet for
removing torn grain on the inside of a bowl. I had some poplar (I
know, I know - but it was free) that I was using to turn some bowls
and practice thin turning with and the chatter and tear out was really
tough till I tried the cabinet scrapers. Hope this helps!

Sawblade