On Sun, 27 May 2007 22:53:42 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

On Sun, 27 May 2007 21:32:31 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

Let's carry this a step further. Let the bottle neck show, so it
becomes part of the design. How about this? Make a gift,
consisting of a bottle of wine, contained in a two-piece turned
wooden shell. After the wine is gone, the recipient keeps the
container, and uses it as a vase. Or buys another bottle of wine to
put on the dinner table inside the same "box."

Terrific Idea!!

Another thing occurred to me after I hit send. There's no reason why
a turned wine box would have to be two pieces- Why not turn a small
hole for the neck, and leave the bottom open? With a little care,
it's not too tough to get a fit that will allow the "cover" to fit
tightly enough to stay on well with no further encouragement.

The big concern here, of course, is that it might split badly instead
of just warping a little if it's held tight against a glass vessel
when the air gets really dry.



Does that limit you in the design for the base?

Not sure exactly what you're getting at, but I'm thinking that if
we're on the same page here, it would not. If you wanted the base to
be a different shape, you could just leave more wood on the outside-
the important part would just be getting the inside to fit properly.

On Sun, 27 May 2007 22:59:26 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

That's a possibility- and while I had initially thought to myself that
the neck makes that a unusable suggestion, I just recalled seeing a
guy cutting bottle glass to make outdoor lamps. The process was
pretty simple- you heat up a bar of metal to an orange heat (and I
would assume that an oxy acetaline torch would work fine in lieu of a
forge,) bend it over, and then press the bottle against the point of
the bend while rotating it. It melts the glass a little bit, and gets
it hot in a thin line all the way around- and then to break it, you
just plunge it into water, and the shock shears the glass cleanly.



You can do this with heated nichrome wire (foam cutter) or even tie
string around the bottle and set it on fire. I recall doing the string
thing back in the 60s and it worked quite well.

Good to know- and less work than getting the forge started and heating
a piece of metal.

On the subject of nichrome wire- I bought my wife a razortip
woodburner a while back (she's into pyrography) and we were looking
for a cheap way to dig up some wire for tips- Razortip wanted a mint
for them.

While it wasn't all that cheap, I messed up our (clothes) dryer a
while back and wrecked the heating element. Since I was the dumb SOB
that broke it in the first place, I paid a repairman to come and fix
it up. After he left, I saw that he had left the old element sitting
on my table saw. I untwisted the element, and cut it into 12" pieces-
there's a lot of nichrome wire in one of those things.

Sure enough, it works great on the razortip, and I bet it'd be perfect
for cutting glass with the method described above, and might even make
a good foam cutter, if a guy needed one.

Just a heads-up, in case any of you have an electric dryer go out on
you.

On Mon, 28 May 2007 07:33:45 +0200, Peter Wells
wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 04:11:33 -0500, Prometheus
wrote:

SNIP

I was wondering if there is some kind of waterproofing agent that can
soak into wood? If so, maybe you could just fill the vase up with it,
cover it for a day or so, then decant the remainder back into the
container. A final stupid idea: what about that wrench handle
dip? It's nice and thick so it should be easy to sloosh around
inside a piece, and it doesn't have to be strong to hold water--the
vase would supply all the support.

SNIP

Now, that last idea... that isn't stupid at all, and to be perfectly
honest, I think it might be the best suggestion in the bunch. I
haven't used or thought about that stuff in quite a while, but I bet
it'd do the trick very nicely.


Suggestion from SWMBO on the same basis that the vase itself provides
support: trap a plastic bag of some kind between the neck of the vase
and a turned ring (like an end-grain fitted-box lid with a hole in
the middle). You might need to reinforce the locking ring with a dowel
or some such device to prevent splitting along the grain.

I had thought of that, but I'd be concerned that something like the
roses we have next to the house would cut right through a plastic bag
when the thorns touch it. The wrench dip is pretty thick, and seems
like it would be at least mostly self-healing if it was punctured.

Prometheus wrote:

snip

While it wasn't all that cheap, I messed up our (clothes) dryer a
while back and wrecked the heating element. Since I was the dumb SOB
that broke it in the first place, I paid a repairman to come and fix
it up. After he left, I saw that he had left the old element sitting
on my table saw. I untwisted the element, and cut it into 12" pieces-
there's a lot of nichrome wire in one of those things.

Sure enough, it works great on the razortip, and I bet it'd be perfect
for cutting glass with the method described above, and might even make
a good foam cutter, if a guy needed one.

Just a heads-up, in case any of you have an electric dryer go out on
you.
I used to dampen a piece of string with kerosene, tie it around a
bottle, and light it. When it was burning well I dunked it in a bucket
of water and it would pop right into. Probably should have worn
safety glasses, but had never heard of them on the farm in the dark ages.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The trouble with not having a job is
that you can't take a day off!

"Prometheus" wrote: Just a heads-up, in case any of you have an electric
dryer go out on you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you're lucky, you will have to wait a long time for your drier to die.
Check the thrift stores for toasters, small convection ovens, electric space
heaters, etc.

Gerald Ross wrote:

I used to dampen a piece of string with kerosene, tie it around a
bottle, and light it. When it was burning well I dunked it in a bucket
of water and it would pop right into. Probably should have worn
safety glasses, but had never heard of them on the farm in the dark ages.


The kerosene was the part I forgot!! I used to use lighter fluid, but I
wasn't on the farm. Didn't wear glasses either - lack of safety instruction
& sense.

"Gerald Ross" wrote: (clip) When it was burning well I dunked it in a
bucket of water and it would pop right into. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you use a heated wire, I am sure you won't want to drop it into a bucket
of water. I have done it by applying one drop of water to the heated glass.
I am sure that would also work with the kerosene/string method.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:


"Gerald Ross" wrote: (clip) When it was burning well I dunked it in a
bucket of water and it would pop right into. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you use a heated wire, I am sure you won't want to drop it into a
bucket of water. I have done it by applying one drop of water to the
heated glass. I am sure that would also work with the kerosene/string
method.




One drop won't douse the flame.

On Mon, 28 May 2007 16:16:06 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote: Just a heads-up, in case any of you have an electric
dryer go out on you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you're lucky, you will have to wait a long time for your drier to die.
Check the thrift stores for toasters, small convection ovens, electric space
heaters, etc.

Sure, if you're lucky, and don't do something stupid. In my case, a
bit of wire from one of my wife's pieces of clothing got stuck and I
couldn't see it, so I decided to remove what looked like an access
panel in the back of the drum to see if the bearings had something in
them (see how much I know about dryers already?)

If you know anything about dryers, it's probably pretty obvious what
happened- the drum dropped, and I hadn't cut off the power, so it
fried the element. Yeah, stupid, I know...

How about some sort of hot plastic spray, while the lathe is running?

John

Prometheus wrote:

Hello all,

Like many of your probably have, I've turned a few vases on my lathe-
and it's not all that easy to get the finish on the inside uniform
enough that I would feel comfortable with filling any of them with
water. Bowls are often a different story, but they are not as
difficult to finish.

This, of course, defeats the purpose of a vase, if you want to have
fresh flowers in it. Since the neck on my vases is always narrower
than the body, putting something that is solid inside them to hold
water would be a big reduction in the amount of fluid it could hold.

Of course, there may be a well-established method for dealing with
this, but I haven't yet run across it, so I've come up with a theory
for your consideration.

Today, when I was a little bored at work, I was contemplating the soda
I was drinking from a plastic bottle. I recalled the economy of scale
in that industry, where a large container of the product is almost the
same price as a smaller one, and that I had heard at some point that
this is because every size of soda bottle is made from one standard
blank similar to a plastic test tube, heated and blown into a mould.
It's the same stuff, whether you make a tiny 8 oz bottle or a
two-liter Goliath. That's pretty impressive, when you consider it.

Now, while a soda bottle blank might not be the thing needed here, it
occurs to me that other plastics will soften and deform with the
application of heat and [air?] pressure. There are different kinds,
of course, but a soda bottle is a good example of what I'm talking
about.

So, if a guy were to slide a plastic tube into a turned vase, and then
use a heat gun with a blower to soften it, what do you think the odds
of that air pressure being enough to expand it within the vase to form
a tight fit are? Centrifigal force could assist the plastic's
expansion, if the lathe were on when you were heating the plastic
blank.

An alternate senario might be to place a flat piece of the correct
type of plastic over the mouth of the vase, and heat it with a hair
dryer while applying suction through a hole in the bottom with a shop
vac.

In either case, you'd (hopefully- I'm not really a plastics guy) end
up with a second vessel inside your turned vase that would be entirely
water-proof, would cost very little, and would make an item that might
be for sale to the general public much more durable and practical.

If anyone on the list happens to be involved with plastics in some
capacity, feel free to steal the idea if it has any merit and run with
it- I'd be thrilled to be able to buy vase liners that are made of the
right material and easy to use in packs of a dozen or so, provided the
price was not insanely high.

I know this may not appeal to those who are heavily invested in the
mystique of all-wood, and traditional finishing- but I think it's an
idea that might be worth pursuing for a lot of folks. For me, the
vase is all about the outside- I could care less if the interior was
covered with plastic, paint, or even that spray-in truck bed liner,
and I doubt that the stems of the flowers are going to lodge any
formal protests, either!

I'll give it a try during the holliday weekend, and report back- if
anyone else decides to give this a go, and has some success or
additional thoughts on how it might be done in the easiest possible
way, I'd be very happy to hear about it!

(Also, for your general consideration, I just tried heating a soda
bottle with my lighter, and it *will* shrink before it burns- so it's
not a thermoset product. It's quite possible that they may be just
the thing to use, and it's a good recycling trick, if you're into
that! My inital thought is that a wide-mouth bottle would probably be
easier to work with, but I won't know until I play with this a bit.)

"Prometheus" wrote: (clip) Yeah, stupid, I know...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's NOT stupid to make the same mistake for the first time.

It's NOT stupid if you figure out what happened, admit that you made a
mistake, and treat it as a learning experience.

It's NOT stupid to turn a lemon into lemonade. You did get an ample suply
of heater wire for your pyrography pen.

Was it an underwire bra? It's okay to use words like that here. We're
adults.

In scanning through all of the replies, I was surprised that no one
suggested using the two part expoxy finish that you can pick up at any
Woodcraft store. Two coats will give you a very durable finish that is
better than 1/16" thick. I would just mix a batch, pour it in and then
rotate the bottle until the entire inside is coated. Than wait a day or so
and repeat the process. This is the same material that they use to coat bar
tops where they embed various things (insects, coins?) etc. right in the
top. They never wear out and are continually exposed not only to water but
also alcohol. Should work fine for a vase.
"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

Like many of your probably have, I've turned a few vases on my lathe-
and it's not all that easy to get the finish on the inside uniform
enough that I would feel comfortable with filling any of them with
water. Bowls are often a different story, but they are not as
difficult to finish.

This, of course, defeats the purpose of a vase, if you want to have
fresh flowers in it. Since the neck on my vases is always narrower
than the body, putting something that is solid inside them to hold
water would be a big reduction in the amount of fluid it could hold.

Of course, there may be a well-established method for dealing with
this, but I haven't yet run across it, so I've come up with a theory
for your consideration.

Today, when I was a little bored at work, I was contemplating the soda
I was drinking from a plastic bottle. I recalled the economy of scale
in that industry, where a large container of the product is almost the
same price as a smaller one, and that I had heard at some point that
this is because every size of soda bottle is made from one standard
blank similar to a plastic test tube, heated and blown into a mould.
It's the same stuff, whether you make a tiny 8 oz bottle or a
two-liter Goliath. That's pretty impressive, when you consider it.

Now, while a soda bottle blank might not be the thing needed here, it
occurs to me that other plastics will soften and deform with the
application of heat and [air?] pressure. There are different kinds,
of course, but a soda bottle is a good example of what I'm talking
about.

So, if a guy were to slide a plastic tube into a turned vase, and then
use a heat gun with a blower to soften it, what do you think the odds
of that air pressure being enough to expand it within the vase to form
a tight fit are? Centrifigal force could assist the plastic's
expansion, if the lathe were on when you were heating the plastic
blank.

An alternate senario might be to place a flat piece of the correct
type of plastic over the mouth of the vase, and heat it with a hair
dryer while applying suction through a hole in the bottom with a shop
vac.

In either case, you'd (hopefully- I'm not really a plastics guy) end
up with a second vessel inside your turned vase that would be entirely
water-proof, would cost very little, and would make an item that might
be for sale to the general public much more durable and practical.

If anyone on the list happens to be involved with plastics in some
capacity, feel free to steal the idea if it has any merit and run with
it- I'd be thrilled to be able to buy vase liners that are made of the
right material and easy to use in packs of a dozen or so, provided the
price was not insanely high.

I know this may not appeal to those who are heavily invested in the
mystique of all-wood, and traditional finishing- but I think it's an
idea that might be worth pursuing for a lot of folks. For me, the
vase is all about the outside- I could care less if the interior was
covered with plastic, paint, or even that spray-in truck bed liner,
and I doubt that the stems of the flowers are going to lodge any
formal protests, either!

I'll give it a try during the holliday weekend, and report back- if
anyone else decides to give this a go, and has some success or
additional thoughts on how it might be done in the easiest possible
way, I'd be very happy to hear about it!

(Also, for your general consideration, I just tried heating a soda
bottle with my lighter, and it *will* shrink before it burns- so it's
not a thermoset product. It's quite possible that they may be just
the thing to use, and it's a good recycling trick, if you're into
that! My inital thought is that a wide-mouth bottle would probably be
easier to work with, but I won't know until I play with this a bit.)