Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles, but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will put a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me. It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The skew
does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with it but
still its only good at 1 thing.


"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:4bmLg.9654$Mh7.3913@edtnps90...
Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles,
but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will put
a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me. It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for
newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"James" wrote in message
...
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The
skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with
it but still its only good at 1 thing.



Boy is Richard Raffan ever going to be disappointed when he reads your
comments.......

--

Regards,
M.J. (Mike) Orr
http://members.shaw.ca/approachingart

I guess that if I was going to start a student from ground zero, I
would start with bowls because that is what I am best at, and most
familiar with. The first thing I turned was a spindle with beads and
coves, straight from the Richard Raffin book.

I did see Chris Stott, and a comment he made was," some say to use the
point of the skew, some say to use the heel, I say use this." and he
held up a spindle gouge.

The Richard Raffin basic turning video was the first turning video I
ever saw, and I was amazed to see him use the skew as a roughing tool
in a cutting method, not as a scraper. That was one of my turning
epiphamies.

I have seen pictures of the Oland tool, and don't get it at all. It
looks like a scraper tip on round bar stock. Is it a roughing tool,
kind of like the 'Big Ugly Tool' that we have here in Oregon? Does it
sheer scrape/cut?

I guess no clear cut answers here, just as always, do what workd best
for you, but don't be bashful about trying something new.

robo hippy
M.J. wrote:
"James" wrote in message
...
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The
skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with
it but still its only good at 1 thing.



Boy is Richard Raffan ever going to be disappointed when he reads your
comments.......

--

Regards,
M.J. (Mike) Orr
http://members.shaw.ca/approachingart

robo hippy wrote:
....snip...
I did see Chris Stott, and a comment he made was," some say to use the
point of the skew, some say to use the heel, I say use this." and he
held up a spindle gouge.

I've watched a very fine, fast, and prolific turner (Martin Pidgen) turn
many beads with a 3/8 beading and parting tool. I bought one from him
and now turn beads with it unless they are very small. In that case, I
use either a 1/8" parting tool or a 3/8" round skew. And, I do not
scrape with any of these tools -- I get a good finish.

The French use a bedan -- I've tried it but don't like it as of now.

I also watched Raffin bead the entire outside of a bowl (not a spindle)
with a spindle gouge.

Bill

I felt the same way before I was shown the light. Now one of my favorite
tools. It does take practice tho. I keep a practice spindle on my lathe
between bowls & pens. When I feel like puttering I sharpen the skew and get
my fix. It really does give a very nice finish cut, even when you rough out
a piece from square.
"James" wrote in message
...
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The
skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with
it but still its only good at 1 thing.


"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:4bmLg.9654$Mh7.3913@edtnps90...
Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles,
but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will put
a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me.
It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for
newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"James" wrote in message
...
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The
skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with
it but still its only good at 1 thing.


I have always had difficulty with a skew. I aggree it's only good for
making vee cuts. The Robert Sorby spindle master does everything a skew
does with none of the problems and in my opinion gives a better finish

Tom

James
I use a skew to turn spindles. It is a great tool for V cuts and also for
long smooth surfaces, beads and gentle coves. Come to think of it I hardly
use a spindle gouge.
______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"James" wrote in message
...
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The
skew
does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with it
but
still its only good at 1 thing.


"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:4bmLg.9654$Mh7.3913@edtnps90...
Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles,
but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will
put
a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me.
It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for
newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

RH
The Oland tool is a cutting tool. It looks like a scraper if you are used to
the Ellsworth style hollowers as he got some of the idea for his scrapers
from Knud Oland. The tip on the Oland is sharpened to 45* and used as a
cutter. Shavings roll.

______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I guess that if I was going to start a student from ground zero, I
would start with bowls because that is what I am best at, and most
familiar with. The first thing I turned was a spindle with beads and
coves, straight from the Richard Raffin book.

I did see Chris Stott, and a comment he made was," some say to use the
point of the skew, some say to use the heel, I say use this." and he
held up a spindle gouge.

The Richard Raffin basic turning video was the first turning video I
ever saw, and I was amazed to see him use the skew as a roughing tool
in a cutting method, not as a scraper. That was one of my turning
epiphamies.

I have seen pictures of the Oland tool, and don't get it at all. It
looks like a scraper tip on round bar stock. Is it a roughing tool,
kind of like the 'Big Ugly Tool' that we have here in Oregon? Does it
sheer scrape/cut?

I guess no clear cut answers here, just as always, do what workd best
for you, but don't be bashful about trying something new.

robo hippy
M.J. wrote:
"James" wrote in message
...
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels.
The
skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more
with
it but still its only good at 1 thing.



Boy is Richard Raffan ever going to be disappointed when he reads your
comments.......

--

Regards,
M.J. (Mike) Orr
http://members.shaw.ca/approachingart

So we have bedans; beading and parting tools; spindle gouges; spindle
masters and skews for many of the same cuts. I would also put skewchigouges
and three point tools in there. Could there be more than one way to skin a
cat?
______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"T. Dougall" wrote in message
...

"James" wrote in message
...
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The
skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more
with
it but still its only good at 1 thing.


I have always had difficulty with a skew. I aggree it's only good for
making vee cuts. The Robert Sorby spindle master does everything a skew
does with none of the problems and in my opinion gives a better finish

Tom

In article ,
(James) wrote:

*From:* "James"
*Date:* Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:35:27 -0700

Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels.
The skew does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do
more with it but still its only good at 1 thing.
You make me wish I'd never learnt to use one *properly*!
While it certainly isn't the 'be all and end all' and many beginners do
have problems with it, if you follow the rules and use the correct
portion of the edge, it can do a darn sight more than cut 'V's -
something that is usually done wrongly, anyway!


Ken

Darrell,

Simply you were referring to newbies. I tried a skew again this weekend and
think #@%&$#@!!!!!

No way can my wife handle this thing. If a really skilled & practiced person
can make it talk, then I think that comes under advanced work. Personally
started on a piece of side grain wet wood just fiddling with coves, beads
and a spindle gouge. She's getting more from that while trying to be precise
to a pattern than anything she did with bowls. I agree the skew cuts an
awesome V. Just that it catches better than Johnny Bench.

I did notice something I'd missed before on an Ellsworth vid. A detail gouge
with a convex bevel for parting his bowls. I found it works great versus the
usual concave.

TomNie

In article , (Tom
Nie) wrote:

*From:* "Tom Nie"
*Date:* Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:20:38 -0400

Darrell,

Simply you were referring to newbies. I tried a skew again this
weekend and think #@%&$#@!!!!!
Try using a 3/8" beading and parting tool to take a planing cut - or
better, sharpen it like a skew. You should find it difficult *to* get a
dig in. A well known pro turner in the UK, Ray Jones always uses that
one and decries the advice a lot of others give to get at least a 1" one.

Even with a wider one, though, if you just present the tool, short point
down and with the edge between that point and about a third of the way
along to the wood, it should plane fine. It's when you try cutting
closer to the long point that the tool is then out of balance and will
pivot around its point of contact on the rest and dig right in.

That - and being frightened you will get a dig, are in my view, the main
causes of problems but, at least until you've succeeded that way, never
use it with the long point down except for cutting vees - and cutting
them, don't just point the tool at the wood and hope. Cut to one side
of the intended line of the vee and then cut down each side in turn
until you reach the depth you want, *where* you want it.

Ken

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:42:24 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles, but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will put a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me. It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com


Darrell... as a "I'll never turn pens" guy that got converted, her's my take on
it...

I think that pens would be a great way to start... especially for younger
turners because it's instant gratification... As Chuck has said, his group can
take a few kids that have never used a lathe and send them home with pens in 1/2
a day..

Pens can be done on a small, quiet lathe... translate that into
"unintimidating"...

Pens teach use of morse taper, tail stock, etc... with little of the dangers
that bowls or larger items can provide for the beginner..

Pens FORCE you to get comfortable with the skew and tool rest position....much
more, IMO, that bowls...

The sanding and finishing on pens is tougher than on bowls, and only a small
surface... easier to learn and practice on without ruining a nice bowl blank..

I started on spindle work and found that I was more interested in bowls and
stuff... but my past work would have been better, especially the sanding and
finishing, if I'd done pens first...

I'd rather work rebuilding engines that working at "oil changers" but you're
usually better off starting with the basics before you specialize...

Bottom line? screw up a pen and you're out a couple of 2" wood scrapes... *g*


Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:20:38 -0400, "Tom Nie" wrote:

Darrell,

Simply you were referring to newbies. I tried a skew again this weekend and
think #@%&$#@!!!!!

No way can my wife handle this thing. If a really skilled & practiced person
can make it talk, then I think that comes under advanced work. Personally
started on a piece of side grain wet wood just fiddling with coves, beads
and a spindle gouge. She's getting more from that while trying to be precise
to a pattern than anything she did with bowls. I agree the skew cuts an
awesome V. Just that it catches better than Johnny Bench.

I did notice something I'd missed before on an Ellsworth vid. A detail gouge
with a convex bevel for parting his bowls. I found it works great versus the
usual concave.

TomNie

Tom... you haven't tried an oval skew yet, have you? (nag,nag)

Take one of your skews and file or grind the corners off the shaft from the
cutting edge to past where the skew rests on the tool rest...
Play with a piece of scrap, rotating the skew so that the point is "pointed"
slightly down... the only way it will catch now is if you dig the heel in (which
can be rounded when you sharpen) or hit the damn handle end with a mallet.. *g*

I've been amazed how much difference rotating the skew a bit makes... not only
in catching but in smoothness of cut... YMPWV
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

Tom
I hear ya. Besides, a spectacular catch is good for a heart check. And I
have had a few (or more) catches that is :-) thing is, after a hundred or so
Christmas ornaments, the skew gets to be an old friend. Practice, practice,
practice...
______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
Darrell,

Simply you were referring to newbies. I tried a skew again this weekend
and
think #@%&$#@!!!!!

No way can my wife handle this thing. If a really skilled & practiced
person
can make it talk, then I think that comes under advanced work. Personally
started on a piece of side grain wet wood just fiddling with coves, beads
and a spindle gouge. She's getting more from that while trying to be
precise
to a pattern than anything she did with bowls. I agree the skew cuts an
awesome V. Just that it catches better than Johnny Bench.

I did notice something I'd missed before on an Ellsworth vid. A detail
gouge
with a convex bevel for parting his bowls. I found it works great versus
the
usual concave.

TomNie

Mac
I'll grant you that pens are easy to learn and a mistake does not use up
much wood, but then in one sense neither does a bowl. Usually I will start
someone on a a 7 inch or so bowl. So I knock out a blank from the friewood
pile and they rough out a bowl. Then we grab a dried one from the pile and
they finsih turn, sand and finish it. There is always a pile of small bowls
I am not going to get to for ages, so even if it goes to future kindling, no
sweat. Now if I was "buying" bowl blanks, ouch!
______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:42:24 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles,
but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will put
a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me.
It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for
newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com


Darrell... as a "I'll never turn pens" guy that got converted, her's my
take on
it...

I think that pens would be a great way to start... especially for younger
turners because it's instant gratification... As Chuck has said, his group
can
take a few kids that have never used a lathe and send them home with pens
in 1/2
a day..

Pens can be done on a small, quiet lathe... translate that into
"unintimidating"...

Pens teach use of morse taper, tail stock, etc... with little of the
dangers
that bowls or larger items can provide for the beginner..

Pens FORCE you to get comfortable with the skew and tool rest
position....much
more, IMO, that bowls...

The sanding and finishing on pens is tougher than on bowls, and only a
small
surface... easier to learn and practice on without ruining a nice bowl
blank..

I started on spindle work and found that I was more interested in bowls
and
stuff... but my past work would have been better, especially the sanding
and
finishing, if I'd done pens first...

I'd rather work rebuilding engines that working at "oil changers" but
you're
usually better off starting with the basics before you specialize...

Bottom line? screw up a pen and you're out a couple of 2" wood scrapes...
*g*


Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

James wrote:
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The skew
does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with it but
still its only good at 1 thing.

Hmmm. Me thinks that no tool is good at anything. Turners however are.
So if your skew only does v-cuts well, somehow I don't think it's the
skews fault.

On the other hand, I need a new fiddle, because my current one doesn't
know enough songs...

....Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
Juneau, Alaska
Registered Linux User No: 307357

kdavisa-at-cix.co.uk (Ken Davis) wrote in message Try using a 3/8"
beading and parting tool to take a planing cut - or
better, sharpen it like a skew.

Better yet, use a wider straight chisel. Skews were designed to plane wood,
not form it into beads or coves. Used to have right and left hand versions
so the bevel could be longer. For reasons unknown, manufacturers decided
to give us this two-sided absurdity that people try to use for shaping.
Some are even ground at angles which guarantee no real support from the
rest.

If you're making chair legs, the skew's for you, the rest of the stuff is
make-do, which can be handled best by another tool. Doesn't make a man out
of you to use a skew for other than planing, but it will make a fool if you
catch.

The very first thing I ever turned, as well as the next dozen or so,
were mushrooms. I still have maybe 4 or 5 laying around the house and
shop. Within a month it was bowls and the occasional spindle turning
of tool handles.


Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles, but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will put a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me. It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:34:07 -0800, Kevin Miller
wrote:

James wrote:
Don't buy the hype that a skew is the do all end all for spindels. The skew
does 1 thing and 1 thing only makes V cuts sure you can do more with it but
still its only good at 1 thing.

Hmmm. Me thinks that no tool is good at anything. Turners however are.
So if your skew only does v-cuts well, somehow I don't think it's the
skews fault.

On the other hand, I need a new fiddle, because my current one doesn't
know enough songs...

...Kevin

Reminds me of what we'd say in the bad ol' days when someone made a lucky pool
shot... "nice shot, stick!"
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

Hey Darrell,
This is very much like one of Arch's musings. Are you stirring things
like Arch does. Personally, I really couldn't hope to have a better
model. This is fun! Good job, carry on, I'll most likely kill you in
the morning (the dread pirate Roberts from themovie,
The Princess Bride).
robo hippy
Kevin wrote:
The very first thing I ever turned, as well as the next dozen or so,
were mushrooms. I still have maybe 4 or 5 laying around the house and
shop. Within a month it was bowls and the occasional spindle turning
of tool handles.


Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with spindles, but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will put a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join me. It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

Weed pots! Basically fat spindles with a hole in it for a dry flower
or - a weed? Long sweeping cuts, beads, V grooves, coves, some
end grain - and if you get bored, a loose ring or two. Doesn't use
much wood - you can use just about any piece of wood, including
prunings from a tree or from a douglas fir or redwood 2x4. Small
enough diameter that a catch doesn't involve a change of under
wear. Green or dry - try both - and everything in between. All can
be done between centers and the hole done on the drill press - no
chuck required.

You can try all kinds of shapes and find some that you'll use later
on a larger actually hollow form (I still don't know when a bowl
becomes a vase). Finding the proportions of a nice piece isn't
a function of the scale - small, large or in between, nice proportions
are nice proportions

You can make weed pots with just a couple of gouges - parting tool
and a skew or spindle gouge, or try every gouge in that set you
bought when you got the mini/midi lathe.

If you don't know what a weed pot is - have a look

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/.../Turning6.html

And if you want to develop some finesse with a few gouges
make a bunch of hair sticks. You'll need to know how to get
your edges really sharp though. With stuff this thin, turned
between centers a dull tool will get one of these puppies
flexing like you won't believe - and THAT typically results in
a dig in, spiral cut, catch. When they happen, the piece can
break and just fall down - or fly off in the most difficult
to predict direction.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...Turning12.html

Skip deep hollow forms until you have gotten to know your
lathe, tools and ways of working with them that you're
comfortable and compitent with.

charlie b

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 10:56:31 +0000, Darrell Feltmate wrote:

So we have bedans; beading and parting tools; spindle gouges; spindle
masters and skews for many of the same cuts. I would also put skewchigouges
and three point tools in there. Could there be more than one way to skin a
cat?
______
Yes Darrell, there is a multiplicity of manners by which one may defur a
feline.

Bill

Robo Hippy
Well spoken by a rodent of unusual size. :-)

--

______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
"robo hippy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey Darrell,
This is very much like one of Arch's musings. Are you stirring things
like Arch does. Personally, I really couldn't hope to have a better
model. This is fun! Good job, carry on, I'll most likely kill you in
the morning (the dread pirate Roberts from themovie,
The Princess Bride).
robo hippy
Kevin wrote:
The very first thing I ever turned, as well as the next dozen or so,
were mushrooms. I still have maybe 4 or 5 laying around the house and
shop. Within a month it was bowls and the occasional spindle turning
of tool handles.


Darrell Feltmate wrote:
Mac, this is your fault. You got me thinking which is always a
dangerous
thing. Where should a person start in turning? Most start with
spindles, but
a skew is the best spindle tool going and notthe easiest tool to
learn.
Bowls are a lot easier and if you use Oland tools both cheaper and
less
scary to make. It is harder to get a catch with an Oland tool. I will
put a
thought start up on the blog about this too if anyone cares to join
me. It
is easier to archive on the blog and this should be good stuff for
newbies.
By the way, I start first timers on tealights and bowls.
www.roundopinions.blogspot.com
_____
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

I start with a tree, usually.

I like roughing out cylinders with a gouge, but there's no match for a
skew in making a nice straight cylinder. If the diameter's too big, it
takes too long for the thing to turn around to make nice fair lines,
and then I say there's no match for 40 grit sandpaper for speed or
fairness of a curve. Real small cylinders (dowels) I use a small plane,
which is really just a skew with a built in tool rest to help prevent
whipping and control the cut.


Kevin Miller wrote: On the other hand, I need a new fiddle, because my
current one doesn't
know enough songs...

Like my banjo. Back when I was taking lessons it used to sound real
good. Now it sucks and I think I'll make a guitar and see if it can
play any better.

In article ,
(George) wrote:

*From:* "George"
*Date:* Thu, 07 Sep 2006 09:56:59 GMT

kdavisa-at-cix.co.uk (Ken Davis) wrote in message Try using a
3/8" beading and parting tool to take a planing cut - or
better, sharpen it like a skew.

Better yet, use a wider straight chisel. Skews were designed to
plane wood, not form it into beads or coves. Used to have right

Having been away for about 9 days, I saw this on returning and I'm
afraid I disagree completely.
The problem was "digs" and I'd suggested trying a narrower tool - the
3/8" beading and parting tool or, preferably a 3/8" skew because digs are
*much* less likely to happen with a narrow tool and, if you should still
get one, not so drastic.

To then suggest a *wider* tool seems to me to indicate that the original
problem is simply being ignored!

Ken

kdavisa-at-cix.co.uk (Ken Davis) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(George) wrote:

*From:* "George"
*Date:* Thu, 07 Sep 2006 09:56:59 GMT

kdavisa-at-cix.co.uk (Ken Davis) wrote in message Try using a
3/8" beading and parting tool to take a planing cut - or
better, sharpen it like a skew.

Better yet, use a wider straight chisel. Skews were designed to
plane wood, not form it into beads or coves. Used to have right

Having been away for about 9 days, I saw this on returning and I'm
afraid I disagree completely.
The problem was "digs" and I'd suggested trying a narrower tool - the
3/8" beading and parting tool or, preferably a 3/8" skew because digs are
*much* less likely to happen with a narrow tool and, if you should still
get one, not so drastic.

To then suggest a *wider* tool seems to me to indicate that the original
problem is simply being ignored!


Rethink your disagreement. A wider tool is immaterial in catches - only so
much involved in making the cut, rest being inertia. If you overbite, you
catch. However, guiding longer on the bevel does help make a straighter
planing cut by giving good reference on where you've been to control where
you're going. This was/is the idea behind the skew design, get more bevel
on the work by cutting the edge at a skewed angle the way folks were holding
the square end chisel. With the skew you just move up toward the 11:00
position when cutting versus 10:00.

The square uses the same toolrest height as your gouge, but if you don't
move up with the skew, you're asking for trouble, because the nose leads,
and if it tips in - disaster. Straight chisel has no nose, and is normally
used skewed so that the upper neglected catchy part lags the direction of
the cut. MUCH safer, and with a longer edge available, adjustable to
lengthen the time between sharpenings. Some people even grind their skews
with a curve to put the catchy part a bit farther out of the way.

A narrow tool of either design, of course, carries its own problem set -
shorter distance to the corners. A bit of inattention and you can hook even
the lower corner in the piece.

shrug
I've heard much the same argument from a turner demoing at out club, the
month before Ray Jones argued - more successfully - the narrower tool.

Both views are, IMHO correct *but*, having tried both, I reckon that -
for a beginner - the narrow one is *far* easier to learn on and almost
impossible even to force a dig with.

Having got the hang of it, the learner can then have more confidence to
use a wider tool, should he feel it necessary and, in my experience
since starting to use the narrow one, it rarely, if ever, is.

It all ends up in personal preferences, anyway.

Ken

I think a significant factor has been overlooked - the diameter of the
piece you're turning. If you're using a skew, straight edged or curved
edge, to make planing cuts, long point UP, you're normally cutting/
shearing with the middle third of the cutting edge and TANGENT to the
spinning wood, the bevel riding on the wood. The distance between the
wood at the long point and and the long point as well as the distance
between the wood at the heel corner and the heel corner is a function
of BOTH the length of the cutting edge of the skew AND the diameter
of the piece you're working on.

ASCII illustrations aren't the best but may make the point.

If you look at Examples 3 & 4 you see that on the larger diameter
piece, the long point on the wider skew is farther from the oncoming
wood than is the case with long point of the narrower skew . You'd
have to move the long point of the WIDER skew FARTHER to have it
contact the oncoming wood than you would with the NARROWER
skew.

Example 1. Narrow skew, long point up, small diameter piece,
piece rotationg counter clockwise in this view
/
/+---+
// \
+ +

Example 2. Wide skew, long point up, large small piece
piece rotationg counter clockwise in this view
/
/
/+---+
// \
/ + +

Example 3. Narrow skew, long point up, large diamter piece
piece rotationg counter clockwise in this view

/
/ +----------+
// \
/
+
\

Example 4. Wider skew, long point up, large diamter piece
piece rotationg counter clockwise in this view

/
/
/ +----------+
/ / \
/ /
+
\
Now if the piece is square intially and you're using a skew to
rough it to round - then a wider skew is definitely the way to
go IMHO.

Sure wish we could attach pictures to messages.

charlie b

All my skew *planing* work is with the cutting point in the lower third
of the edge with, as you say, the long point up, irrespective of
diameter. The point of cut is still only a *point* on the edge and very
little of it is actually *used* - so there's another pointer to a narrow
tool being better. Economics. A longer skew just means you're grinding
away more metal that has never 'seen' any wood! And wearing the
grinding wheel down more!

While I have used a skew for roughing - and still do on pens - it really
is ridiculous. Using a tool which really needs to be sharp to get a
finish in the environment most likely to knock it off sharp, when there
are roughing gouges which can easily be used to cut right along their
edge before needing grinding!

Have all those insisting that a long skew is essential actually *tried*
using a shorter one? I did a few days demoing in July where someone
spotted a few pens I'd done - the sort with a long hole to take a BIC
refill - where I'd put a captive ring on the end. Would I show them
how, please? I ended up doing dozens - I'd run out of pen blanks to I
was using some bits I'd taken, intending to do some lace bobbins. Now,
I've seen it done with a 1" skew but with something that small, in my
view, it seems clumsy and I use a 1/2" skew for most of the work on the
pen but use a mini skew, about 3/16" across for the captive ring. If I
have had any digs, I've not noticed them!

Ken

kdavisa-at-cix.co.uk (Ken Davis) wrote in message
...
All my skew *planing* work is with the cutting point in the lower third
of the edge with, as you say, the long point up, irrespective of
diameter. The point of cut is still only a *point* on the edge and very
little of it is actually *used* - so there's another pointer to a narrow
tool being better. Economics. A longer skew just means you're grinding
away more metal that has never 'seen' any wood! And wearing the
grinding wheel down more!

Have all those insisting that a long skew is essential actually *tried*
using a shorter one?

Been using a 1/2 and 1" for as long as I have had a lathe, which of course
is why I prefer the longer for work above ornament or pen size. The "lower
third" is twice as long! Was fortunate enough to read Frank Pain's book
early on, and made a straight chisel out of one of my set's scrapers. Short
one of only 1/2" worked very well. Still does, because I still have it in
its shorter state. As one of the few tools which receives the stone rather
than the wheel routinely - it is a finishing tool, just like my carbon steel
gouges - it's held up well.

Roughing with a skew is sort of silly, because a skew is normally thin
enough to tip easily. If a U shape roughing gouge is used, you have a flat
chisel on each side to plane with and a gouge in the middle for faster
hogging. The curve on my 1 1/2 is a LOT more stable than a 1/4 thick skew.

Not to be picky, because some people only want CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, but a
tool tangent to the surface won't cut, and a tool tangent to the fresh-cut
portion is a tippy narrow-point guide. What you want to establish is called
a secant or a chord, which is why you skew the chisel. I like to use a
gouge to get a more stable reference, perhaps the very reason the form was
created and preferred for general purpose work. I even skew the gouge,
thereby obtaining a stable point so well controlled that I can lift my hand
and scratch my nose without interrupting the cut.

In article ,
(George) wrote:

preferred for general purpose work. I even skew the gouge, thereby
obtaining a stable point so well controlled that I can lift my hand
and scratch my nose without interrupting the cut.
Since, many years ago I broke my right index finger and had to use my
left for various things for a few weeks, I can do that with either
hand.


Ken

At a recent public demonstration, i.e. one that was for the general public
as opposed to being advertised to wood turners, I found myself frequently
pointing to the tip of the tool as I illustrated a cutting maneuver. Not the
thing I wanted them to "try at home."
______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
kdavisa-at-cix.co.uk (Ken Davis) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(George) wrote:

preferred for general purpose work. I even skew the gouge, thereby
obtaining a stable point so well controlled that I can lift my hand
and scratch my nose without interrupting the cut.
Since, many years ago I broke my right index finger and had to use my
left for various things for a few weeks, I can do that with either
hand.


Ken

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote:

At a recent public demonstration, i.e. one that was for the general
public as opposed to being advertised to wood turners, I found myself
frequently pointing to the tip of the tool as I illustrated a cutting
maneuver. Not the thing I wanted them to "try at home."
______
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com
kdavisa-at-cix.co.uk (Ken Davis) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(George) wrote:

preferred for general purpose work. I even skew the gouge, thereby
obtaining a stable point so well controlled that I can lift my hand
and scratch my nose without interrupting the cut.
Since, many years ago I broke my right index finger and had to use my
left for various things for a few weeks, I can do that with either
hand.


Ken




Aye, but can any of you scratch your head And pat your belly while making
the cut?! G