Grunff wrote:


I use crappy angle grinders too (for masonry work, keeping my good ones
clean for metal work). They are useful, but pretty crap compared to good
ones.

I would have thought that a good one will stand up to masonary work just
fine. As long as the bearings and switch gear are well sealed against
the dust they ought to last well. I have a 2kW Hitachi 9" grinder that
has done nothing but cut masonary, slabs, roof tiles, concrete paths etc
for the last 3 years - still working as good as new.

What is more it actually cost less in real terms than a number of the
cheapie options - got it from a local trade supplier (alas now closed it
seems) who specialied in Hitachi kit - it was 72 quid but that included
about 30 quids worth of diamond disc! (must admit I asked the girl
behind the counter to check that the disc really was included in the price!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

(Kooky45) wrote in message . com...
Mike Clarke wrote in message ...
In article , N.
Thornton wrote:

I expect to get an SDS, most likely from scerwfix or toolstation - big
Q is which ones have rotostop AND will not let the chisel wander round
(gradually rotate) as it hammers? Theres no info in the cats about
this. I'm after a 2kg one.

I've just bought the Makita HR2450, you can lock the chisel. Just move
the selector half way towards the hammer only setting (the white dot
just visible in the Screwfix catalogue photo), rotate the chisel to your
desired position and move the selector fully over to lock. It also has
an interlock on the mode selector to stop it jumping from one mode to
the other on it's own accord as I understand some of the cheaper models
have been known to do.

Hi Nick,

What's the Makita like with the conventional chuck on the end? Does
it feel loose until you put pressure on it? Also, is it any good for
drilling into wood?

Thanks,

Ken


I bought the Makita HR2450X based on newsgroup reccomendations as well
as personal preferences. It came with the conventional chuck adaptor
and can say that the machine is awesome!

Just to test it out I used a 35mm frostner bit and it went clean
through the 3" wood I was massacring Youre right about the slight
play in the chuck as with all sds bits it has that slight give but
once youre in about 1/4-1/2" this is no longer a problem as the
pressure and walls of the hole keep it from wandering. I can only
imagine that with auger bits it will be even better and much smoother.
By comparison the 18v cordless Makita went through the wood also with
apparent ease (slightly less) but the SDS won just on the basis of
much higher torque. Speed did not seem to play that big a part as
with big holes you really need the torque which I assume will drop
once you set the metabo on the higer speed setting.

The speed is definitely not an issue with smaller bits i.e. anything
less than 15mm bit in wood. Also for making holes (with hole saws) in
wood, chipboard, mdf etc this drill is more than up to the job.

However, one very crucial point to note is that often with these types
of holes it relates to waste pipes in kitchens etc and the size of the
drill needs to be considered. Often you will find that in those
situations youre better off with a small but powerful cordless or
mains drill. Just on this reason alone I would opt for two drills. An
SDS and a cordless.

By the way do you have a cordless drill driver already? As there is no
way the SDS would be suited for anything other than coach bolts IMHO.
You definitely need a cordless driver with torque control (if you dont
have one) as I would not even consider manual screwing anymore (did I
just say that?!!) and the SDS is just too big for such jobs.

The HR2450 comes in three flavours:

1 HR2450 - no conventional chuck adapter included £116
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...hisel%20Drills

2 HR2450X - With keyless Conventional chuck adapter £116
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...hisel%20Drills

3 HR2450T - With interchangeable chuck from SDS+ to keyless
conventional @ £185
http://www.ishop.co.uk/ishop/982/shopscr2172.html

IMO the extra £70 for a fancy chuck system does not seem worth it. The
keyless adapter works just fine unless you are overly concerned about
the bit moving around.

ON the Lawson website the metabo range is also there but not sure
which one you want but £280 for the UHE38 !! If I were you I'd buy the
Hr2450X (with keyless adapter) and a cordless 12v as a screwdriver for
general drilling and driving. Both will be top quality and give you
greater flexibility AND still have £60 left over for all the new SDS
bits you could want.

Save the SDS beast for brick ,concrete Chiselling, Chanelling etc.

The Makita comes with 3m of thick cable in an excellent case with
storage for enough of the sds bits that you may need.

Intake vent holes on the side and on top (not sure if that is the same
for the Dewalt) which may prevent accidents previously debated. ;-)

Hope this helps.

John Rumm wrote:

I would have thought that a good one will stand up to masonary work just
fine. As long as the bearings and switch gear are well sealed against
the dust they ought to last well.

Even if this is true, would I really want to get nasty stone/concrete
dust on my lovely metal working tools? I might do maybe 1 days worth of
masonry work per year, compared to several weeks worth of metal work.

I'd rather use my cheapie grinder for this, keeping my good ones
relatively dust free.

--
Grunff

"David" wrote in message ...
"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:25:16 +0000 (UTC), mike ring
strung together this:

I think that's pretty good advice - I've got a cheapish old SDS which
does
me, but I can't imagine how I would use it with a convebntional chuck and
a
smallish bit.

With a SDS to conventional 3 jaw chuck adapter.

I think he knows that but can't imagine actually using it becasue it's such
a great big effing thing to handle, and probably pretty unweildly with the
gimickt replacement chuck stuckup front.


I'd be interested to know if anyone who has a replacement chuck woould
use
in with a 2-3mm HS bit, or to drill a pilot for a #8 woodscrew

Eh? Replace what chuck with what?
--

the point looks to be about using a 4kg SDS with small drills requiring
possibly requiring relatively high precision. (he said ..trying to second
guess the OP)

cheers

Daid

Yes, that's the exact point. I'll be using it in the loft and I want
something easy to handle and precise so I can drill into brick and
wood.

Ken

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Kooky45 wrote:

I want an SDS drill for some work on brick and concrete, but I want
one that'll be very good for general DIY as well. I'm considering
one from the Metabo range as they have a very good quick change
mechanism for swapping the SDS chuck with a conventional one (better
than Makita I believe). I first thought I'd get a BHE24 drill but I
know they don't have a rotation lock and chiseling might be useful
in the future - wish I had one when I was hacking off tiles last
year. I then thought I'd get a KHE24 though they're more expensive
(rotation and percussion locks, but only one gear), and then I
noticed the UHE range are good for screw driving as well with their
two speed gear box, but they're the most expensive of all. I'm also
concerned that all of these SDS drills might not be good on wood
with the percussion stop as I've seen they have lower rotation
speeds than normal hammer drills.

Can anyone with SDS experience for general DIY work tell advise me on
which one to buy please?

Many thanks,

Ken

Rather than spending a lot of money on *one* drill which does a lot of
things (some badly!), I would recommend buying *three* drills - but
spending far less on each. Get a cheapish SDS drill - but with
rotation and persussion locks - and use it just for drilling
brick/concrete and chiselling. Get a 2-speed conventional (mains)
drill for general wood and metal drilling. [It will probably come
with hammer action - but ignore that!]. Finally, get a rechargeable
drill for light drilling and screwdriving. That way, you will always
have the best tool for each particular job - without endless chuck
and bit changing.


FWIW, Makro are doing a JCB twin pack for UKP54.99+VAT (64.60) in their
promotion starting on 7th July. This consists of an 18v cordless drill with
2 batteries and 1 hour charger, together with a corded hammer drill
(admittedly only one mechanical speed, but electronic speed control). The
same pack is in the current Argos catalogue for UKP79.99 - so the Makro deal
looks quite good. I would be sorely tempted if I didn't already have
equivalent drills.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

FWIW, Makro are doing a JCB twin pack for UKP54.99+VAT (64.60) in their
promotion starting on 7th July. This consists of an 18v cordless drill
with
2 batteries and 1 hour charger, together with a corded hammer drill
(admittedly only one mechanical speed, but electronic speed control). The
same pack is in the current Argos catalogue for UKP79.99 - so the Makro
deal
looks quite good. I would be sorely tempted if I didn't already have
equivalent drills.

Hope it's better than the JCB 1/2 sheet orbital sander I mistakenly bought.
Even the smaller 1/3 sheet B&Q Performance (non-pro) one is better than it.

(Quddus) wrote in message . com...
(Kooky45) wrote in message . com...
Mike Clarke wrote in message ...
In article , N.
Thornton wrote:

I expect to get an SDS, most likely from scerwfix or toolstation - big
Q is which ones have rotostop AND will not let the chisel wander round
(gradually rotate) as it hammers? Theres no info in the cats about
this. I'm after a 2kg one.

I've just bought the Makita HR2450, you can lock the chisel. Just move


Are Ryobi Erbauer and Skil inferior in some way? If so how?

I think if there were a 2kg budget one I'd probably buy it, as it
probably wont see that much use here.

Thanks, NT

On 3 Jul 2004 04:08:11 -0700, (N. Thornton) wrote:

(Quddus) wrote in message . com...
(Kooky45) wrote in message . com...
Mike Clarke wrote in message ...
In article , N.
Thornton wrote:

I expect to get an SDS, most likely from scerwfix or toolstation - big
Q is which ones have rotostop AND will not let the chisel wander round
(gradually rotate) as it hammers? Theres no info in the cats about
this. I'm after a 2kg one.

I've just bought the Makita HR2450, you can lock the chisel. Just move


Are Ryobi Erbauer and Skil inferior in some way? If so how?

I think if there were a 2kg budget one I'd probably buy it, as it
probably wont see that much use here.

Thanks, NT

Erbauer appears to be Screwfix own brand with all of the usual
limitations of questionnable quality and no service backup.

Skil products are pretty reasonable (for example their circular saws
are solid although basic.

I'm not sure about the Ryobi SDS drill specifically, but generally
their tools are not reviewed well. For example, I was looking at a
review of 18v cordless drills in a wood working magazine this morning
where products were scored on performance and value for money.
Ryobi came bottom of the list on both counts.

If you are looking for a 2kg budget product, Bosch is pretty good. If
"budget" means in the £100 area then you are into the realms of much
better quality products like Makita and DeWalt.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 3 Jul 2004 04:08:11 -0700, (N. Thornton) wrote:
(Quddus) wrote in message . com...
(Kooky45) wrote in message . com...
Mike Clarke wrote in message ...

I expect to get an SDS, most likely from scerwfix or toolstation - big
Q is which ones have rotostop AND will not let the chisel wander round
(gradually rotate) as it hammers? Theres no info in the cats about
this. I'm after a 2kg one.

I've just bought the Makita HR2450, you can lock the chisel. Just move

Are Ryobi Erbauer and Skil inferior in some way? If so how?

I think if there were a 2kg budget one I'd probably buy it, as it
probably wont see that much use here.

Erbauer appears to be Screwfix own brand with all of the usual
limitations of questionnable quality and no service backup.

Skil products are pretty reasonable (for example their circular saws
are solid although basic.

I'm not sure about the Ryobi SDS drill specifically, but generally
their tools are not reviewed well. For example, I was looking at a
review of 18v cordless drills in a wood working magazine this morning
where products were scored on performance and value for money.
Ryobi came bottom of the list on both counts.

If you are looking for a 2kg budget product, Bosch is pretty good. If
"budget" means in the £100 area then you are into the realms of much
better quality products like Makita and DeWalt.

Cheapest Bosch is £88 at both toolstation and screwfix. Doesnt say f
they have rotostop thugh.
rant
How they expect to seel stuff without basic info like that I dont
know.
/rant

I like the price of the Skil one at £100, that includes a complete bit
set. Its still far more than I'm convinced I need to spend though, its
not liek I'm using it on a business basis.

Are there cheaper 2kg ones with rotostop?


Regards, NT

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
Andy Hall wrote in message
. ..
On 3 Jul 2004 04:08:11 -0700, (N. Thornton) wrote:
(Quddus) wrote in message
. com...
(Kooky45) wrote in message
. com...
Mike Clarke wrote in message
...

I expect to get an SDS, most likely from scerwfix or
toolstation - big
Q is which ones have rotostop AND will not let the chisel wander
round
(gradually rotate) as it hammers? Theres no info in the cats
about
this. I'm after a 2kg one.

I've just bought the Makita HR2450, you can lock the chisel. Just
move

Are Ryobi Erbauer and Skil inferior in some way? If so how?

I think if there were a 2kg budget one I'd probably buy it, as it
probably wont see that much use here.

Erbauer appears to be Screwfix own brand with all of the usual
limitations of questionnable quality and no service backup.

Skil products are pretty reasonable (for example their circular saws
are solid although basic.

I'm not sure about the Ryobi SDS drill specifically, but generally
their tools are not reviewed well. For example, I was looking at a
review of 18v cordless drills in a wood working magazine this morning
where products were scored on performance and value for money.
Ryobi came bottom of the list on both counts.

If you are looking for a 2kg budget product, Bosch is pretty good. If
"budget" means in the £100 area then you are into the realms of much
better quality products like Makita and DeWalt.

Cheapest Bosch is £88 at both toolstation and screwfix. Doesnt say f
they have rotostop thugh.
rant
How they expect to seel stuff without basic info like that I dont
know.
/rant

I like the price of the Skil one at £100, that includes a complete bit
set. Its still far more than I'm convinced I need to spend though, its
not liek I'm using it on a business basis.

Are there cheaper 2kg ones with rotostop?

Go to any B&Q store, and pay about £25.

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
Cheapest Bosch is £88 at both toolstation and screwfix. Doesnt say f
they have rotostop thugh.
rant
How they expect to seel stuff without basic info like that I dont
know.
/rant

Totally agree. I almost bought the wrong DeWalt in the same way but noticed
at the last minute.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

Are there cheaper 2kg ones with rotostop?

Go to any B&Q store, and pay about £25.


And get one that weighs 5kg !!!!!!!

(That said, it is good at heavy work - so far)

Cheapest 2 kg one is nearer £80

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:10:53 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

Go to any B&Q store, and pay about £25.

Even though I couldn't read your reply without scrolling, (and usually
I just skip to the next message at this point because it's probably
not worth the effort of scrolling down to read a one liner), I thought
to myself "I bet he mentions something about PPPoo in his one liner"
so out of idle curiosity scrolled down this time. Well, you're
predictable if nothing else.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

G&M wrote:

(That said, it is good at heavy work - so far)

Mine keeps spitting out the chisel. The person who designed the SDS
chuck on it doesn't seem to have grasped the concept of retaining the bit.

--
Grunff

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:10:53 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

Go to any B&Q store, and pay about £25.

Even though I couldn't read your reply without scrolling,

Mr Pole, stop babbling ********.

snip ********

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
G&M wrote:

(That said, it is good at heavy work - so far)

Mine keeps spitting out the chisel. The person who designed the SDS
chuck on it doesn't seem to have grasped the concept of retaining the bit.

Ah - mine holds on for grim death - even when trying to get it out :-)
Aren't production tolerances wonderful :-)

I also notice the gearbox needs re-filling with grease every five hours and
the pot of grease they supply isn't full but has about five helpings in it.
I assume this means the drill is designed to never get to 30 hours before it
dies :-)

G&M wrote:

Ah - mine holds on for grim death - even when trying to get it out :-)
Aren't production tolerances wonderful :-)

Hehe..I think you may have the bit I'm missing.


I also notice the gearbox needs re-filling with grease every five hours and
the pot of grease they supply isn't full but has about five helpings in it.
I assume this means the drill is designed to never get to 30 hours before it
dies :-)

Wow, you've bothered opening the gearbox? I intend to run it dry, see
how long it lasts.

On a similar note, we have an H reg Metro bought for £50 which we use as
a powered wheelbarrow around the place (good value, eh?). About 2 years
ago it developed a major oil leak, and lost all of its oil. I thought it
would be interesting to see how long it can go on running with no oil.
Today it left us on a flatbed, 2 years and 250 miles later.

--
Grunff

Steve Firth wrote:

However on several cheap makes, the tool is still free to rotate. NuTool
drills are particularly bad for this. It may sound trivial, but when
using a chisel it's impossible to control if it starts to rotate with
the vibration of the drill. Since I wanted an SDS drill mostly for
chasing in electrical sockets, the NuTool was inappropriate.

Particularly bad if you want to use the corner of the chisel and it
won't stay put I would expect.

Another aspect of the budget drills that is often overlooked is the need
to keep re-greasing them. After a while they end up covered in the stuff
and start gobbing black gunk out all over the place.

(the better tools normally only recommend that you lightly grease the
shank of the SDS bit once in a while!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
G&M wrote:

Ah - mine holds on for grim death - even when trying to get it out :-)
Aren't production tolerances wonderful :-)

Hehe..I think you may have the bit I'm missing.


I also notice the gearbox needs re-filling with grease every five hours
and
the pot of grease they supply isn't full but has about five helpings in
it.
I assume this means the drill is designed to never get to 30 hours
before it
dies :-)

Wow, you've bothered opening the gearbox? I intend to run it dry, see
how long it lasts.

On a similar note, we have an H reg Metro bought for £50 which we use as
a powered wheelbarrow around the place (good value, eh?). About 2 years
ago it developed a major oil leak, and lost all of its oil. I thought it
would be interesting to see how long it can go on running with no oil.
Today it left us on a flatbed, 2 years and 250 miles later.

Do you mean it went for 250 miles with no oil?

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
G&M wrote:

The DeWalt 566 is quite light and very well balanced. I use it
one-handed
all the time almost as one would a battery powered drill.

Highly recommended providing you don't do a Grunff on it :-)

It's funny, since buying my Makita 18V combi, I've only used my Bosch
mains hammer drill once - and that was for mixing tile adhesive. It's
always either the DeWalt for drilling holes in walls/chiseling etc, or
the Makita for everything else.

I think it is more that at that price you use it to get your moneys worth.

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 18:26:24 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

Do you mean it went for 250 miles with no oil?

It's taken you over 18 hours to work that out? You are doing well.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
G&M wrote:

Ah - mine holds on for grim death - even when trying to get it out :-)
Aren't production tolerances wonderful :-)

Hehe..I think you may have the bit I'm missing.


I also notice the gearbox needs re-filling with grease every five hours
and
the pot of grease they supply isn't full but has about five helpings in
it.
I assume this means the drill is designed to never get to 30 hours
before it
dies :-)

Wow, you've bothered opening the gearbox? I intend to run it dry, see
how long it lasts.

Hmm :-)

You have a sadistic streak when it comes to crap tools. I trust you
wouldn't do this with proper ones.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
N. Thornton wrote:

Cheapest Bosch is £88 at both toolstation and screwfix. Doesnt say f
they have rotostop thugh.

Watch out for those descriptions as well. I've seen SDS drills described
as "rotostop" and I suppose technically they were. A control could be
used to stop the tool being rotated by the motor.

However on several cheap makes, the tool is still free to rotate. NuTool
drills are particularly bad for this. It may sound trivial, but when
using a chisel it's impossible to control if it starts to rotate with
the vibration of the drill. Since I wanted an SDS drill mostly for
chasing in electrical sockets, the NuTool was inappropriate.

Even my DeWalt 566 does that a bit. Nowhere near as much as the PPro one
which rotates loosely but I often have to engage rotation and cycle it back
to where I want it.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 18:26:24 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

Do you mean it went for 250 miles with no oil?

It's taken you over 18 hours to work that out? You are doing well.

No - he's been typing replies as fast as he can read :-)

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Kooky45 wrote:


from the Metabo range as they have a very good quick change mechanism
for swapping the SDS chuck with a conventional one (better than Makita
I believe). I first thought I'd get a BHE24 drill but I know they

Not sure I follow that... there is no such thing as an SDS chuck as such
- SDS bits just plug straight into the end of the drill. A
conventional chuck for a SDS drill is to all intents and purposes just a
special SDS bit that plugs in like any other.

don't have a rotation lock and chiseling might be useful in the future
- wish I had one when I was hacking off tiles last year. I then

Chisel is very handy!

thought I'd get a KHE24 though they're more expensive (rotation and
percussion locks, but only one gear), and then I noticed the UHE range
are good for screw driving as well with their two speed gear box, but

I have used my Makita SDS for screwdriving. It has the power and low
speed torque, but the main problem is actually the length - by the time
you have a conventional chuck in there with a hex bit holder the end of
the drill is a long way away. Hence less natural to use for this task.

I used an SDS on 6 inch screws. The screws were in a floor, so no problem
holding the drill. The low speed and torque ensures the screw is well
screwed in.

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
Kooky45 wrote:
John Rumm wrote in message
...

Not sure I follow that... there is no such thing as an SDS chuck as such
- SDS bits just plug straight into the end of the drill. A
conventional chuck for a SDS drill is to all intents and purposes just a
special SDS bit that plugs in like any other.

Chisel is very handy!

I have used my Makita SDS for screwdriving. It has the power and low
speed torque, but the main problem is actually the length - by the time
you have a conventional chuck in there with a hex bit holder the end of
the drill is a long way away. Hence less natural to use for this task.

Something about 2kg with roto and hammer stop.


What you're recommending then points me at most expensive UHE24 which
is around 2Kg, has roto and hammer stop, and two gears for either high
torque driving or high speed drilling. Your point about the chuck and
the extra length doesn't apply to the Metabo as you replace the
existing SDS bit holder (chuck?) with a conventional chuck so the
length and weight stays the same.

No-one has commented on drill bit speed for wood. I've already got a
12V Power Devil cordless drill which is fine for thin wood and
plasterboard but it's not very fast. I noticed the mains powered
drills have much higher speeds than either a cordless or SDS. Does
the high speed have any advantage for drilling or is torque more
important? Can you give me an example of wood drilling where the SDS
wasn't very good? I've a job on at the moment where I have to drill a
lot of 5mm holes all the way through 70mm timbers and my cordless
isn't up to the job.


DeWalt 566 SDS - £120 ish, will go through anything stone/brick and has
roto/hammer stop

Makita make one for the same price available from Screwfix. Makita are a
far better bet than a Black &Decker, as that is all a DeWalt is.

Makita - 8443DWDE-3 18v Cordless £240 ish, will go through anything
wood, fantastic at driving screws

You'll never regret it

Nick Brooks

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 18:26:24 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

Do you mean it went for 250 miles with no oil?

It's taken you over 18 hours to work that out? You are doing well.

Mr Pole, are you Grunff? Was it your motor? How do you know?

IMM wrote:


I think it is more that at that price you use it to get your moneys worth.

No, you use it because it feels and works so much better. You obviously
have no experiance of using decent tools.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:


I think it is more that at that price you use it to get your moneys
worth.

No, you use it because it feels and works so much better. You obviously
have no experiance of using decent tools.

No you use it because it cost a fortune to buy.

IMM wrote:

I think it is more that at that price you use it to get your moneys worth.

No, you obviously haven't been following the story. I bought the Makita
because I use my cordless drill *a lot*, and they kept failing or
performing unsatisfactorily. Remember, you receommended I try the 18V
PPPoo, which I did and found to be ****.

--
Grunff

IMM wrote:


Do you mean it went for 250 miles with no oil?

Yes.

--
Grunff

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 22:29:04 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




Makita make one for the same price available from Screwfix. Makita are a
far better bet than a Black &Decker, as that is all a DeWalt is.

That isn't a realistic comparison. The B&D brand is applied to
entry level DIY tools. DeWalt is applied to professional ones.
Bosch do the same thing with their green and blue ranges.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

G&M wrote:

You have a sadistic streak when it comes to crap tools. I trust you
wouldn't do this with proper ones.

With my babies?? Never!

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I think it is more that at that price you use it to get your moneys
worth.

No, you obviously haven't been following the story. I bought the Makita
because I use my cordless drill *a lot*, and they kept failing or
performing unsatisfactorily. Remember, you receommended I try the 18V
PPPoo, which I did and found to be ****.

I also said try the Riyobi and the Wickes (Kress), which you never.

IMM wrote:

I also said try the Riyobi and the Wickes (Kress), which you never.

How many times am I supposed to try what you suggest? You suggested the
PPPoo first, I tried it, it was ****. Am I supposed to then continue
following your suggestions? Please!

I'm *extremely* happy with the Makita. Yes, it cost twice as much as the
PPPoo or the Bosch (green), but it's far more than twice the tool. Use
one and you'll understand.

--
Grunff

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 23:40:23 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

I think it is more that at that price you use it to get your moneys
worth.

No, you obviously haven't been following the story. I bought the Makita
because I use my cordless drill *a lot*, and they kept failing or
performing unsatisfactorily. Remember, you receommended I try the 18V
PPPoo, which I did and found to be ****.

I also said try the Riyobi and the Wickes (Kress), which you never.



There's no need. The Riyobi 18v cordless came bottom of the bunch on
both performance and value for money in a review that I was reading
yesterday.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

IMM wrote:

I have used my Makita SDS for screwdriving. It has the power and low
speed torque, but the main problem is actually the length - by the time
you have a conventional chuck in there with a hex bit holder the end of
the drill is a long way away. Hence less natural to use for this task.


I used an SDS on 6 inch screws. The screws were in a floor, so no problem
holding the drill. The low speed and torque ensures the screw is well
screwed in.

Oh dear - I think I am agreement with IMM on something.... never mind I
am sure it will pass.

Yup the SDS will do the job just fine. Especially on big screws driven
downwards. The main difficulty is not the weight (The 2kg SDS it is
about the same as the 18V Makita cordless), but the balance and the
distance to the tip of the driver. When you want to be able to place the
screw driver bit into the head of a screw it is much simpler when the
handle of the drill is under its centre of gravity (as with the
cordless) and the end is only 5" away from the handle you are holding.
With the SDS the bit is over 12" away from the handle. Hence the process
of aligning driver with screw is far more difficult and also more tiring
if you are using it for lots of screws since you are holding it right at
the back. Also SDS drills lack the sophistication in their torque
limiters that you get with the cordless.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
I'm *extremely* happy with the Makita. Yes, it cost twice as much as the
PPPoo or the Bosch (green), but it's far more than twice the tool.

I think your maths is a bit out. More like the Makita cost five times as
much as the PPoo but is five times the tool.


( Would love to get the Makita sliding mitre saw but it's just too expensive
for my woodworking needs )

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
How many times am I supposed to try what you suggest? You suggested the
PPPoo first, I tried it, it was ****.

BTW, what is the extra P for in PPPoo, assuming first is for Performance
(sic) and the last for Pro/Poo ?

G&M wrote:

I think your maths is a bit out. More like the Makita cost five times as
much as the PPoo but is five times the tool.

Ok, a little off, but not 5x - the Makita 8443 cost £280, including 3x
2.6Ah NiMH batteries (and a pocket TV!). The PPPro 18V combi was £90,
but only two batteries and only 1.9Ah at that.


( Would love to get the Makita sliding mitre saw but it's just too expensive
for my woodworking needs )

Same here, stuck with a NuTool for now. Works well but is inacurate and
very noisy. Fitting a decent blade helped a lot.

--
Grunff