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For peer review, new FAQ section: Power Tools. Draft 2
I think I have incorporated most of the comments from the previous
thread, so hear is a revised version. There is now a section on specific tools and what one can do with them - contribuitions for this section especially would be welcome! *** Choosing a portable power tool Choice of power tool is a topic that comes up for discussion at regular intervals on uk.d i y, which frequently generates long threads of opinion and counter opinion! (aka arguments, and flame wars!) Much of this discussion seems to stem from different peoples understanding of what “DIY” is all about, as well as each person having often conflicting needs and expectations. To help focus discussion, this section of the FAQ sets out some of the various tool buying policies that are routinely suggested. If you use this to identify which policy most closely resembles your favoured approach, you should be able to solicit advice from the group that takes this into consideration, and will save you needing to wade through too many heated debates! What do *you* mean by DIY? This is not as daft a questions as you may think! Since it will have a big impact on the tools you will consider “suitable”. DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby. It could be as simple as occasionally erecting a shelf, or changing a tap washer. For others it could be as elaborate as building their own house! For many today (especially if you live in the south east) DIY is often the only option because finding good trades people willing to actually quote or even turn up for work on some jobs is getting increasingly difficult! It is safe to say that the tool you purchase with the expectation that it will live in a cupboard for 362 days of the year, may well be very different to the one with which you indulge your hobby of fine furniture making five days a week. So before deciding on much else, it is advisable to decide on what level of use you anticipate making of the tool. Class of tool: There are a huge variety of power tools available from the general purpose to the highly specialised. Almost every DIY shop will not only stock a selection of well know brands, they will often offer their own range of “own brand” tools, and prices for similar looking tools can range from as little as £5 to well over £500. The choice can seem bewildering. Understanding the way in which these different ranges of tools are marketed and distributed can go a long way to help understanding this large range. Budget tools The prices of budget tools in recent years have fallen dramatically. The majority of tools are manufactured in the far east and then “branded” for the eventual retailer. It is not uncommon to find exactly the same tool available under several different “brands” where the only difference is the label and the colour of the case. Since access to the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) is limited, getting any after sales service and spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. Often the retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of these limitations. So if a tool breaks during its warranty period, then the retailer will simply replace it. However if it breaks after this time, the tool will need to be discarded and a replacement sought. Although a long warranty may seem attraction remember that you may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement. High End tools At the high end, tools are often built and assembled by factories owned by the brand maker, or built for them by OEMs to the brands own specification and quality standards. There will be a service and support network that will enable tools to be repaired, and spare parts obtained. Needless to say this backup and support has to be paid for in higher tool prices. Mid Range tools The mid range can be even more confusing since it can encompass tools from the “edges” of both categories above – often with the range of tools available under one brand spanning a good proportion quality and price range available. It is also an area with a large number of suppliers, sellers, and advertisers, each competing for your money. Where should I buy from? Many tools are available from a wide range of sources including the big name DIY shop, to the specialised independent tool supplier. A growing market sector is the dedicated “online” seller. For easy availability of budget and mid range tools, it is hard to beat the big DIY shops. If you want the best and most knowledgeable advice and after sales service you will need to seek out a dedicated tool merchant. If you are looking for the best possible price the online shop will often give it to you. There are cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that usually only comes with much higher price tools. The purchasing factors Assuming you have dismissed hiring a tool, there are some are obvious factors like features of the product and its price that you will consider before you buy, but some are more subtle. For any given purchase you will need to weigh up these factors, since they may often be different for each tool you buy. 1) Tool features 2) Purchase Price 3) Availability of spares and support 4) Tool quality (and quality of results achievable with it) 5) Total cost of ownership (factoring in your time to buy and maintain the tool, cost of spares etc) 6) Comfort of use (Not only ergonomic design, but also factors like weight, noise, vibration, effective dust collection) 7) Speed of operation 8) Availability of suppliers (and service where applicable) 9) How much you anticipate the tool will be used 10) How long you need it to last 11) Brand image Buying policies: The disposable tool This is an easy one! Sometimes a tool is needed for a specific job and then that is it. Chances that it will be used again are slim. Often hiring a tool is a good way to meet this need, but that will not always be cost effective or practical if you are going to need it on an ad hoc basis spread over several weeks. In this category tools from the cheaper end of the market can be ideal, often you are not too concerned what the life expectancy of the tool will be, so long as it gets the job done. If it lasts longer then that is a bonus. Almost any DIY shop will have a suitable supply of tools. The down side it that the quality of the tool compared to a hired one may be inferior since the hire shops will typically buy top end tools so as to get the best life out of them, make sure they stand up to the abuse dolled out in unskilled hands, and to keep their trade customers happy! The tool may also be less comfortable to use, achieve lower standard of results, and take longer. Finally, you either need to store or otherwise dispose of the tool when the job is done. The second hand tool Don’t dismiss this option! Sometimes places like hire shops will sell off surplus tools. If you can find one that has not been hammered to the edge of its useful life this can be a way of picking up a top quality tool for not much money. The buy to try approach Sometimes you are not sure how much actual use you will make of a particular tool, but you can’t be sure until you have a chance to try one for yourself. Hiring can be a solution here although you would need to a specific project in mind. The alternative is to buy one from the budget or mid range, to see how you get on with it. You may find that your purchase satisfies your need, or it may be a stepping stone to something better. It also means when you do buy “something better” you have a much clearer understanding of what features to look for and which ones can be dismissed as “fluff”. The “buy several” approach The own brand tool may not offer the reliability and performance of a more expensive tool. However the price is often such that some people advocate buying more than one of each tool, often for the less than the price of a single better tool. Should a tool fail, you simply discard it and switch to its replacement and carry on working. (The same policy can actually be applied to any type of tool in any price range if it is important that you can carry on working, not just the “DIY shop special”, Even expensive tools bought for business use may fall into this category). You can have several tools “on the go at once”. With things like drills this may equate to faster working since you will not need to stop to swap between say a drill bit and a screwdriver bit, just pick up a different tool. You need to balance this with the fact that the money spent on two tools may buy one of better quality, which may outlast the two cheaper ones, give better results, and be nicer to use. Also you will need more storage space if you have several of each!. The mid range choice This is the hardest range to purchase from, because there is a huge choice, and it is not possible to make blanket purchasing decisions based on brand for example. Each brand will have good and not so good products in this class. Buying from this range is often what the ad men call an “aspirational purchase” (i.e. you would like something better, but budget dictates you buy something similar but cheaper!). Mid range tools are often well suited to the less intensive user. The results and quality of work that can be produced will often be higher than with lower end tools, and some after sales service and support may be available (this is often true where the manufacturer sells tools in several ranges (like B&D or Bosch for example). You have ready availability of tools and lots of competition keeps prices low. You may find that the quality, comfort of use, speed etc, may still be lacking. The “top quality” approach Sometimes only the best will do. If the work you want to do demands the highest quality of finish, or you want the utmost comfort and ease of use from your tools then this might be the approach for you. You can expect tools in this category to stand up to intensive every day use, even for “trade” purposes. Reliability should also be better than the other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily available. Ideally suited to the serious DIYer, the tradesman and craftsman. You will be getting the smoothest operation resulting in good finish and low operator fatigue, with good finesse of control. If you have a habit of being a bit “heavy handed” with your tools then remember these were designed to be used and abused on building sites! Sometimes there is just the satisfaction in using and owning “the best” The tools are going to be more expensive, and are more likely to be stolen if not carefully looked after! Note also that just because repair services are available there may be down time waiting for repairs to be carried out. Mains or Cordless Over recent years the number of cordless (i.e. battery powered) tools available has grown enormously. In many cases available power is but an extension lead away and so you may not “need” a cordless tool. There are some items (drills / powered screwdrivers notably) for which the cordless tool is desirable as a class of its own - often in addition to a mains equivalent. If in doubt as to whether to go cordless (for things other than drills) you are probably better sticking to mains. There are a few “givens” with cordless tools: they cost more, and will often deliver less power than a similar price / size mains tool, and if you use them infrequently then they will be flat when you want to use them! There is also a huge range of difference between the best and the worst examples. The worst cordless tools are virtually useless. The best can be used as non stop work horses. The single biggest influence on the quality and usability of a cordless tool are its batteries and their charger. It is simply not possible to purchase good quality rechargeable cells at very low cost. Many budget cordless tools are sold at a price that is less than the wholesale cost of a decent set of batteries. So something has to give! The quality of the batteries will affect how long it runs, and the power or torque available. The quality of the charger will affect how long the batteries take to charge, and more importantly, how many times you can recharge and still get useful performance from the tool. Batteries will need replacement eventually. With a budget tool this will usually be a non economic exercise (assuming spares are available), with a higher end tool it may well be more expensive than you expect. The other influence on performance is the quality of the motor and speed controller used. A good one will deliver lots of torque and control, even at low speeds. The poorer ones will only deliver torque at high speeds which is far less useful. Are more “volts” better In the quest for more power, performance and speed from battery operated tools, there has been a slide upwards in battery voltage. This suits the marketers well since there is a nice “number” to use a sales hook. The bigger the number the better right? Err, no not always. The more volts, the more cells, the bigger and heavier the tool will be. If you want a nimble easy to use drill/driver this is not a “good thing”. Then we come down to quality of batteries again: a top end 14.4V drill will out perform a 18V or 24V budget tool for just this reason, while being smaller and lighter into the bargain. Which brand is which? Identifying which of the above groups a tool belongs to is not always straight forward. Many people will not even agree which is which. Some brands may make tools in several distinct categories, (which may or may not be distinguished in some way). In recent years many of the big name makers have acquired smaller brands so as to be able to compete in several different ranges without confusing people as to which market they are aiming for (i.e. B&D own Elu, Skil, and DeWalt) Budget brand tools: NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop “own brand tools”, Power Devil, Ferm Mid range tools Bosch (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey bodied), Freud, PPPro (B&Q), Ryobi High End Makita, Trend, Bosch (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello, Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt, Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee, Panasonic All about Different Tools The following section lists lots of tools, why you may want them, and highlights specific things to look for that are particular to the tool. [feel free to jump in here guys and gals and provide some sections! – this could go on a bit] The jigsaw This is an example of a tool where there is a massive shift in performance as you move from budget to high end. To the extent that a high end tool is to all intents and purposes a different tool to the low end. It makes answering the question “why would I want one?” a bit tricky since the range of things you might do with a good one is much wider that those you would contemplate for a poor one. Hence it is simpler to treat these as two separate types of tool: The budget / mid range jigsaw: Ideal for cutting curved lines, (indeed without practice, that may be the only type you can cut!). If you need to cut out shapes, (i.e. hole for a sink in a worktop), or make some ornate woodwork this may be the tool for the job. If you need a jigsaw then there are few alternatives, there are some jobs that only a jigsaw will do. The speed of cut is relatively slow (ones with pendulum action will cut faster (and rougher)). The tools are pretty small and light. They are often a bit uncomfortable to use since you get a fair bit of vibration. They are not suited to being a general purpose saw (a circular saw will often be a better choice). The quality of the cut is moderate, and will need a fair amount of sanding etc prior to finishing if it is to be on display. Features worth having include tool less blade change (sometimes called SDS just to confuse), an illuminated cutting line is nice, as is a dust blower that keeps the cutting line clear of sawdust. The high end jigsaw This will do all of the things the budget one will do. However it is a far more general purpose tool. It cuts quickly and smoothly with little or no vibration. It is much better at cutting straight lines, and can often be used with a straight edge or rip fence without the blade wandering to “interesting” angles. Tool less blade change is a given, as is a good speed controller. The base plate will be a solid cast metal rather than a flexible pressed steel one. With a fine or medium blade it will also give a very fine finish to a cut. The Drill The SDS Drill The Sander The Circular Saw The Planer The Router The Biscuit Jointer The Reciprocating Saw The Mitre Saw -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#2
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John Rumm wrote:
I think I have incorporated most of the comments from the previous thread, so hear is a revised version. There is now a section on specific tools and what one can do with them - contribuitions for this section especially would be welcome! What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#3
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John Rumm wrote:
What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! I have no quibbles with the current draft, at least! It sets out lots of the relevant factors, doesn't ridicule different buying policies, and has lots of specifics. I particularly valued the section on cordless tools and the wide differences in battery quality. If anything, I'd drop the more ambitious 'ways in which particular tools differ' sections at the end (well, the section on jigsaws and the placeholders for the others) for now. It's a big extra chunk of effort, and I think you should rest for now ;-) Of course if others want to chip in with words for the empty sections, so much the better. Stefek |
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#4
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Stefek Zaba wrote:
If anything, I'd drop the more ambitious 'ways in which particular tools I see what you are saying... it seemed like the logical place to go next, although as you highlight there is plenty work required to get this section to a really useful state. differ' sections at the end (well, the section on jigsaws and the placeholders for the others) for now. It's a big extra chunk of effort, and I think you should rest for now ;-) Of course if others want to chip in with words for the empty sections, so much the better. Yup some words for the other sections would help.... I could do the router and drill sections easy enough, but more input on things like planes, sanders, circ says etc. would be good (just noticed I forgot to include angle grinders!). A good amount of it could be culled googling posts to this group in fact. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#5
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Stefek Zaba wrote:
If anything, I'd drop the more ambitious 'ways in which particular tools differ' sections at the end (well, the section on jigsaws and the placeholders for the others) for now. It's a big extra chunk of effort, and I think you should rest for now ;-) Of course if others want to chip OK done another bit: The Drill We can deal with two types he the mains and the cordless. Mains Drills Probably most peoples first DIY tool purchase. Essential for the classic DIY task of affixing shelves, but also able to make holes in most materials, sand (quick and rough), grind, polish, polish etc… if you start looking at all the add on gadgets you can get a drill becomes a very versatile bit of kit. Drills in their most basic form are single speed with rotation in one direction only. These are fine for drilling in wood, and also ok for many polishing, sanding and grinding operations. The are also pretty small and hence can be handy for getting into tight spaces like between joists etc. Adding things like variable speed and reverse expand the range of tasks that can be done safely like screw driving, and drilling metals. The addition of a gearbox with two or three speed ranges also add the ability to use less speed and more torque for tasks that will benefit. The other usual addition is that of “hammer” action. Hammer is perhaps overstating the facility a little, "vibration" might be better! This gives you some capacity to drill hard stuff like masonry at the expense of lots of noise. For big, or deep holes in masonry (especially really hard materials like concrete or engineering bricks) the recent advent of the SDS drill will wipe the floor with any hammer drill as well as adding some party tricks of its own. The bigger more powerful drills can turn tools like big hole saws, core bores (for big holes in masonry), and are good at mixing stuff with a suitable mixing paddle. For basic operations the budget tools will do pretty much what the high end ones will. Spending more money will buy you better endurance from the motor (you can run it longer without rest periods, and it will last longer), better speed controllers, and more robust gearboxes. Bearings will improve and become more impervious to dust (handy if you do much masonry work, or lots of grinding and sanding). If looked after, even a basic drill should last years (there must be countless 30 year old Black and Decker drills floating about). Cordless Drills The cordless drill is a godsend any time you need a drill and the freedom from a mains flex. Ideal for screw driving (where the DC motor will provide a much smoother delivery of power than many mains drills). If you assemble flat pack furniture then a cordless drill will save many hours of work! The spread in performance between budget and high end is very marked in cordless drills (far more so than with mains drills). The cheaper end of the market can be pretty disappointing – to the extent that it is often better looking only at the mid range or up. Remember a good amount of money will need to be spent on batteries and charger before you are going to get decent performance. Two types are readily available, the Drill/Driver and the Combi Drill. The latter adds a hammer action. The former will be cheaper and in many cases more than adequate if backed up by a mains or SDS drill for times that hammer is needed. Most will have a speed controller, this essential feature when implemented well, will greatly enhances the usability of the tool. Some better tools implement a rotor break that will stop the rotation when you release the trigger. This helps to avoid accidentally driving a screw too far into the work, stripping threads etc. Many will have a variable torque limiter. This will allow you to set how much to tighten a screw. It can make the task of putting in lots of small screws quick and easy since you can be quite ham fisted with the trigger, in the knowledge that the drill will back off before you over do it! With better tools the repeatability of the limiter improves. Having more than one battery is to be very much recommended. If you have three and a good charger, then chances are it will keep going all day, and you will be worn out long before it is! What type of cordless do I want? If you are talking about a good quality tool with decent cells then the limits of performance are roughly: 9V will do most do most wood drilling tasks, but will struggle with bigger spade bits. Hammer action will be a tad feeble but better than none. Screw driving will start to have difficulties with 4” and bigger screws into softwood. 12V will get your 4” screw driven home with more authority and better performance on masonry. 14.4V will deal with pretty much any screw, handle smaller hole saws, and make a pretty reasonable stab at hammer action. 18V+ will swing a 5” hole saw, mix a bucket of plaster, and stick a 6” roofing screw into solid wood without any difficulty. It is at this level you match the power of a smallish mains drill, but with far more finesse and controllability. However the weight and size is creeping up so it pays to choose one with a nice balance to it. If you are looking at the £29.95 18V combi drill special on the back of your screwstation catalogue then all bets are off, but it might make a nice dumbbell! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#7
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John Rumm wrote:
I think I have incorporated most of the comments from the previous thread, so hear is a revised version. There is now a section on specific tools and what one can do with them - contribuitions for this section especially would be welcome! Good job... I think in this draft you've dropped any mention of what I consider to be one valid reason for not going for top-end power tools, and that is their nickability. I suspect most people who take their tools out of their home or business premises do so without insurance, so it's not a trivial issue. A collection of four or five high-end tools could easily represent a £1K investment; very attractive to thieves and potentially disastrous to lose; the equivalent in cheapo brands could probably be had for 130 quid - far less desirable to John Q Lowlife, and an 'affordable' loss if the worst did happen. David |
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#8
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Have you checked out the Axminster catalouge? They rate power tools
into Hobby, Light Trade, Trade & Industrial. They use some interesting criteria including the expected 'hours per week' use. Dave |
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On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 13:35:54 +0000, in uk.d-i-y John Rumm
wrote: John Rumm wrote: I think I have incorporated most of the comments from the previous thread, so hear is a revised version. There is now a section on specific tools and what one can do with them - contribuitions for this section especially would be welcome! What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! I'm a bit busy to give it proper attention at the mo, but I'll be back soon. Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ The Google uk.d-i-y archive is at http://tinyurl.com/65kwq Remove NOSPAM from address to email me |
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John Rumm wrote:
I think I have incorporated most of the comments from the previous thread Good stuff. I'd add more on second hand tools. I've no experience of buying ex-hire, but from using hired, I wouldnt touch them with a bargepole. Maybe others have had better luck. There is definitely a place for cheap old stuff though. I got an ancient drill for =A33, didnt need it but thought it was worth =A33 for a spare. Dont use it much, but when I do its repaid its value many times over. Its for the occasional job where its really not rpactical to keep changing bits, and there are more bits in use than modern tools. Did one job where having this drill must have saved hours of extra work and hassle. Did another where a chuck seized up, out came the history piece, job completed, saving a days work. People tend to dismiss cheap old stuff, but it has its place. If I were travelling out on jobs I'd take some cheapo backup kit in the car/van. tool failures and losses happen too often, why choose to be stuck when you could have a complete set of ****e backup kit there for =A320. Use it once and cost repaid. And not much hope of anyone nicking it either: useful if you ever work in real rough situations. Also ideal for the penniless diy beginner I spose. Its surprising how much you can do when broke, but thats another story. Lots of great content there John, will be very useful. Only one thing I can whine about: the waffle. It ads nothing, just irritates, I'd take it out. NT |
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Lets dewaffle a bit, and offer some more material:
Choosing a portable power tool Choice of power tool is a topic that comes up for discussion at regular intervals on uk.d i y, which frequently generates long threads of opinion and counter opinion! (aka arguments, and flame wars!) Much of this discussion seems to stem from different peoples understanding of what "DIY" is all about, as well as each person having often conflicting needs and expectations. can be translated as 'opinions will vary.' To help focus discussion, this section of the FAQ sets out some of the various tool buying policies that are routinely suggested. If you use this to identify which policy most closely resembles your favoured approach, you should be able to solicit advice from the group that takes this into consideration, and will save you needing to wade through too many heated debates! Or: The main buying policies are explained. What do *you* mean by DIY? This is not as daft a questions as you may think! Since it will have a big impact on the tools you will consider "suitable". 2 more lines to snip out, since the concept is about to be covered in the coming lines anyway. DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby, or building their own house! note: It could be as simple as occasionally erecting a shelf, or changing a tap washer. For others it could be as elaborate as was wafflesnipped For many today (especially if you live in the south east) DIY is often the only option because finding good trades people willing to actually quote or even turn up for work on some jobs is getting increasingly difficult! John this is a guide to buying tools, not choosing tupperware. Snip it This is a good guide, but the waffle is my one gripe with it. When Im buying tools I couldnt give a monkeys about the distribution of labour in the building market. It is safe to say that the tool you purchase with the expectation that it will live in a cupboard for 362 days of the year, may well be very different to the one with which you indulge your hobby of fine furniture making five days a week. think I preferred the previous version of that  So before deciding on much else, it is advisable to decide on what level of use you anticipate making of the tool. redundant: people already know what theyre going to do with it, at least roughly. And if they dont... they dont. Class of tool: There are a huge variety of power tools available from the general purpose to the highly specialised. Almost every DIY shop will not only stock a selection of well know brands, they will often offer their own range of "own brand" tools, and prices for similar looking tools can range from as little as =A35 to well over =A3500. Translate to: A wide range is available, sometimes covering the range from =A35 to =A3300. The choice can seem bewildering. snippable, that point has just been made obvious already Understanding the way in which these different ranges of tools are marketed and distributed can go a long way to help understanding this large range. redundant, this will become clear below. snip. Budget tools The prices of budget tools in recent years have fallen dramatically. The majority of tools are manufactured in the far east and then "branded" for the eventual retailer. redundant, snip It is not uncommon to find exactly the same tool available under several different "brands" where the only difference is the label and the colour of the case. Since access to the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) is limited, redundant snip getting any after sales service and spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. but also not important, since a new tool is generally cheaper than a repair anyway. If I buy this type of tool I'm not expecting to get it repaired any day. Often the retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of these limitations. Although a long warranty may seem attraction remember that you may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement. this was sniped out, its too obvious to be worth saying: So if a tool breaks during its warranty period, then the retailer will simply replace it. However if it breaks after this time, the tool will need to be discarded and a replacement sought. High End tools At the high end, tools are often built and assembled by factories owned by the brand maker, or built for them by OEMs to the brands own specification and quality standards. irrelevant, the real point is made below. There will be a service and support network that will enable tools to be repaired, and spare parts obtained. Needless to say this backup and support has to be paid for in higher tool prices. Mid Range tools The mid range can be even more confusing since it can encompass tools from the "edges" of both categories above - often with the range of tools available under one brand spanning a good proportion quality and price range available. It is also an area with a large number of suppliers, sellers, and advertisers, each competing for your money. Where should I buy from? Many tools are available from a wide range of sources including the big name DIY shop, to the specialised independent tool supplier. A growing market sector is the dedicated "online" seller. dont forget argos. Customer service is incompetent, but prices keen. For easy availability of budget and mid range tools, it is hard to beat the big DIY shops. If you want the best and most knowledgeable advice and after sales service you will need to seek out a dedicated tool merchant. seek out uk.d-i-y, much more knowledgeable and impartial. In most cases. If you are looking for the best possible price the online shop will often give it to you. When I shopped around for sds the onliners came nowhere near, for comparable tools. But maybe thats true for other things. There are cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that usually only comes with much higher price tools. would you explain? The purchasing factors Assuming you have dismissed hiring a tool, that might be worth a paragraph actually, since it is often an option in peoples minds, though not one I'd often encourage. there are some are obvious factors like features of the product and its price that you will consider before you buy, but some are more subtle. For any given purchase you will need to weigh up these factors, since they may often be different for each tool you buy. 1) Tool features 2) Purchase Price 3) Availability of spares and support 4) Tool quality (and quality of results achievable with it) 5) Total cost of ownership (factoring in your time to buy and maintain the tool, cost of spares etc) 6) Comfort of use (Not only ergonomic design, but also factors like weight, noise, vibration, effective dust collection) 7) Speed of operation 8) Availability of suppliers (and service where applicable) 9) How much you anticipate the tool will be used 10) How long you need it to last 11) Brand image Buying policies: The disposable tool This is an easy one! Sometimes a tool is needed for a specific job and then that is it. Chances that it will be used again are slim. Often hiring a tool is a good way to meet this need, but that will not always be cost effective or practical if you are going to need it on an ad hoc basis spread over several weeks. In this category tools from the cheaper end of the market can be ideal, often you are not too concerned what the life expectancy of the tool will be, so long as it gets the job done. If it lasts longer then that is a bonus. Yup, but could all be said in 2-3 lines. 'For a single job, a cheap disposable tool is often the lowest cost option, cheaper and more convenient than hiring.' Almost any DIY shop will have a suitable supply of tools. The down side it that the quality of the tool compared to a hired one may be inferior since the hire shops will typically buy top end tools so as to get the best life out of them, make sure they stand up to the abuse dolled out in unskilled hands, and to keep their trade customers happy! yes, but by the time you get it its probably f---d. This is a real problem with hired tools; if youre travelling to a job, try the tool out before you go. The tool may also be less comfortable to use, achieve lower standard of results, and take longer. Finally, you either need to store or otherwise dispose of the tool when the job is done. The second hand tool Don't dismiss this option! Sometimes places like hire shops will sell off surplus tools. If you can find one that has not been hammered to the edge of its useful life why else would they sell them? Even the stuff theyre hiring out can be like that. this can be a way of picking up a top quality tool for not much money. The buy to try approach Sometimes you are not sure how much actual use you will make of a particular tool, but you can't be sure until you have a chance to try one for yourself. Hiring can be a solution here although you would need to a specific project in mind. The alternative is to buy one from the budget or mid range, to see how you get on with it. You may find that your purchase satisfies your need, or it may be a stepping stone to something better. It also means when you do buy "something better" you have a much clearer understanding of what features to look for and which ones can be dismissed as "fluff". or translated: 'If youre not sure how much youll use a tool, a budget one will enable you to try one, and find out what things to look for if you do want to upgrade later.' The "buy several" approach The own brand tool may not offer the reliability and performance of a more expensive tool. However the price is often such that some people advocate buying more than one of each tool, often for the less than the price of a single better tool. Should a tool fail, you simply discard it and switch to its replacement and carry on working. (The same policy can actually be applied to any type of tool in any price range if it is important that you can carry on working, not just the "DIY shop special", Even expensive tools bought for business use may fall into this category). You can have several tools "on the go at once". With things like drills this may equate to faster working since you will not need to stop to swap between say a drill bit and a screwdriver bit, just pick up a different tool. On some jobs that can save ages. You need to balance this with the fact that the money spent on two tools may buy one of better quality, which may outlast the two cheaper ones, give better results, and be nicer to use. Also you will need more storage space if you have several of each!. The mid range choice This is the hardest range to purchase from, because there is a huge choice, and it is not possible to make blanket purchasing decisions based on brand for example. Each brand will have good and not so good products in this class. Buying from this range is often what the ad men call an "aspirational purchase" (i.e. you would like something better, but budget dictates you buy something similar but cheaper!). or 'A wide range of brands and qualities. Individual brands may make tools of significantly varying quality.' (dont I know it) Bear in mind if tempted, and many are, that megapacks of drill bits bundled with tools can be junk in some cases. Mid range tools are often well suited to the less intensive user. The results and quality of work that can be produced will often be higher than with lower end tools, and some after sales service and support may be available frankly I regard that as more of a millstone. I dont like the downtime and aggro that accompanies repairs. (this is often true where the manufacturer sells tools in several ranges (like B&D or Bosch for example). You have ready availability of tools and lots of competition keeps prices low. You may find that the quality, comfort of use, speed etc, may still be lacking. yes, and it can be pretty good too. Quality varies. The "top quality" approach Sometimes only the best will do. If the work you want to do demands the highest quality of finish, or you want the utmost comfort and ease of use from your tools then this might be the approach for you. You can expect tools in this category to stand up to intensive every day use, even for "trade" purposes. Reliability should also be better than the other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily available. if sometimes pricey Ideally suited to the serious DIYer, the tradesman and craftsman. You will be getting the smoothest operation resulting in good finish and low operator fatigue, with good finesse of control. If you have a habit of being a bit "heavy handed" with your tools then remember these were designed to be used and abused on building sites! Sometimes there is just the satisfaction in using and owning "the best" The tools are going to be more expensive, and are more likely to be stolen if not carefully looked after! Note also that just because repair services are available there may be down time waiting for repairs to be carried out. Yes, and I think that needs serious emphasis, it is a real problem with decent tools. It can put people out of action for 1-2 weeks. This is where budget backup tools come in, even cheap old sht can get the job done. Mains or Cordless Over recent years the number of cordless (i.e. battery powered) tools available has grown enormously. In many cases available power is but an extension lead away and so you may not "need" a cordless tool. There are some items (drills / powered screwdrivers notably) for which the cordless tool is desirable as a class of its own - often in addition to a mains equivalent. If in doubt as to whether to go cordless (for things other than drills) you are probably better sticking to mains. There are a few "givens" with cordless tools: they cost more, and will often deliver less power than a similar price / size mains tool, always, and much less. Its inevitable. Codless is a feature you will pay for. To make codless tools affordable, heavy compromises are made. They have to be. Codless tools are rated in volts instead of watts precisely because they are not comparable, and they dont want to tell you how big the difference is. This is getting into what I'm properly qualified in. Take a circ saw for example: the motor power is so much lower that other compromises are made to squeeze acceptable performance. The blade has larger tooth spacing to speed up cut, though it gives a rougher finish. The blade may be thinner to reclaim some lost cut speed, but you will then have a much weaker blade, and one with a less clearance from cutting edge to blade body, making jams much more likely. And you still have lower cut speed after all that, and poor duty cyle as well. Take a codless scerwdriver: expect a fraction of the power, far lower top speed in order to reclaim some of the lost torque, often cheap plastic gears to trim the price, low duty cycle motor to trim price, and low duty cycle batteries. This isnt some personal pet issue, there is a big difference, and the mfrs try to disguise it as much as poss. You only need look at the sizes of the motor in mains vs codless drill to realise just how much difference exists. Electronics is my subject. The other difference is tool life. In short, only buy codless when you specifically want the codlessness, or only expect light duty use with slower and more limited abilities. and if you use them infrequently then they will be flat when you want to use them! i make it a rule to recharge after every job, no matter how little its been used. There is also a huge range of difference between the best and the worst examples. The worst cordless tools are virtually useless. The best can be used as non stop work horses. The single biggest influence on the quality and usability of a cordless tool are its batteries and their charger. It is simply not possible to purchase good quality rechargeable cells at very low cost. Many budget cordless tools are sold at a price that is less than the wholesale cost of a decent set of batteries. So something has to give! ..=2E.in most cases everything has to give, to try to get acceptable price. The quality of the batteries will affect how long it runs, and the power or torque available. The quality of the charger will affect how long the batteries take to charge, and more importantly, how many times you can recharge and still get useful performance from the tool. Batteries will need replacement eventually. With a budget tool this will usually be a non economic exercise (assuming spares are available), with a higher end tool it may well be more expensive than you expect. Whereas midrange mains kit usually lasts decades. Dont know if its worth mentioning that one can repack the batteries with sub-c cells oneself for way less money. The other influence on performance is the quality of the motor and speed controller used. I'd snip that cos its made clear by: A good one will deliver lots of torque and control, even at low speeds. The poorer ones will only deliver torque at high speeds which is far less useful. Are more "volts" better In the quest for more power, performance and speed from battery operated tools, there has been a slide upwards in battery voltage. This suits the marketers well since there is a nice "number" to use a sales hook. The bigger the number the better right? Err, no not always. Thats all about to be explained below anyway, so can be snipped. The more volts, the more cells, the bigger and heavier the tool will be. If you want a nimble easy to use drill/driver this is not a "good thing". Then we come down to quality of batteries again: a top end 14.4V drill will out perform a 18V or 24V budget tool for just this reason, while being smaller and lighter into the bargain. Which brand is which? Identifying which of the above groups a tool belongs to is not always straight forward. Many people will not even agree which is which. Some brands may make tools in several distinct categories, (which may or may not be distinguished in some way). In recent years many of the big name makers have acquired smaller brands so as to be able to compete in several different ranges without confusing people as to which market they are aiming for (i.e. B&D own Elu, Skil, and DeWalt) or 'Bear in mind opinions do vary to some extent:' The rest isnt that relevant Budget brand tools: NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop "own brand tools", Power Devil, Ferm dont forget kinzo, challenge, silverline, Mid range tools Bosch (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey bodied), Freud, PPPro (B&Q), Ryobi 'Skil' I think it is. Not sure tho. And why did someone call their tools 'peepee pro'?? I cant remember if it was erbaurer or ryobi that kept getting slated as the worst of all brands by the woodwork reviewers. High End Makita, Trend, Bosch (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello, Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt, Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee, Panasonic All about Different Tools The following section lists lots of tools, why you may want them, and highlights specific things to look for that are particular to the tool. [feel free to jump in here guys and gals and provide some sections! - this could go on a bit] useful idea this, and it only needs a few sentences apiece. The jigsaw This is an example of a tool where there is a massive shift in performance as you move from budget to high end. To the extent that a high end tool is to all intents and purposes a different tool to the low end. It makes answering the question "why would I want one?" a bit tricky since the range of things you might do with a good one is much wider that those you would contemplate for a poor one. Hence it is yes, but again that can be said withut waffle. 'Budget jigsaws suffer from blade bend, twist, misalignment, wander, and blade snapping due to bending sideways during work. They must be steered by twisting to keep them in line, using them agaunst a straight edge will simply break the blade. Cutting is slow, the cut edge a mess, and expect blade breakages.' less words, more info. simpler to treat these as two separate types of tool: The budget / mid range jigsaw: Ideal for cutting curved lines, (indeed without practice, that may be the only type you can cut!). If you need to cut out shapes, (i.e. hole for a sink in a worktop), or make some ornate woodwork this may be the tool for the job. If you need a jigsaw then there are few alternatives, there are some jobs that only a jigsaw will do. The speed of cut is relatively slow (ones with pendulum action will cut faster (and rougher)). The tools are pretty small and light. They are often a bit uncomfortable to use since you get a fair bit of vibration. They are not suited to being a general purpose saw (a circular saw will often be a better choice). The quality of the cut is moderate, and will need a fair amount of sanding etc prior to finishing if it is to be on display. Features worth having include tool less blade change (sometimes called SDS just to confuse), an illuminated cutting line is nice, as is a dust blower that keeps the cutting line clear of sawdust. The high end jigsaw This will do all of the things the budget one will do. However it is a far more general purpose tool. It cuts quickly and smoothly with little or no vibration. It is much better at cutting straight lines, and can often be used with a straight edge or rip fence without the blade wandering to "interesting" angles. Tool less blade change is a given, as is a good speed controller. The base plate will be a solid cast metal rather than a flexible pressed steel one. With a fine or medium blade it will also give a very fine finish to a cut. The Drill The SDS Drill SDS drills operate in 3 modes: drill drill and hammer hammer only, no rotation. Descriptions routinely fail to mention which functions the machine does. Beware, many dont do all 3. Look for: sensible weight, ie 2.2kg not 5kg one that does all 3 functions! a brand name that will survive chisel position lock when used in hammer mode. SDS Downsides: Sds drill bits are several times the price. Cant put hex bits in an SDS chuck The Sander so many types... a whole faq in itself probably. The Circular Saw Many Low cost circs do a fairly good job. Avoid power devil, have had problems with the blade guard. Low priced laser line ones often have an unalignable laser line. Avoid that 1970s one for =A31, it has no riving knife and no blade guard, both dangers, and performance best described as pathetic. The Planer there is a technique needed for electric planes, and not everyone gets the hang of it. When going onto the workpiece, all th weight needs to be put on the front end of the plane. When coming off, all weight should be on the rear end. Otherwise you'll gouge lumps out at one end or the other. There is no blade guard, the blade is still spinning when the motor noise has stopped, and the lightest touch can take a finger off, so always treat with respect, never get cocky. The Router The Biscuit Jointer The Reciprocating Saw The Mitre Saw Low cost ones suffer from: plastic bases that bend out of alignment as you press the workpiece down poor blade that can burn the wood imperfect alignment all round failure to extract dust Avoid the uncommon rock bottom ones that use a steel tipped blade. Such blades cut slow and dull fast. Check the dimensions of cut are adequate for your uses. Prices: =A326-=A3400. I wonder if its worth mentioning the old hammer drill trick used in the days of non-hammer drills? Occasional diyers may only have non hammer types, even today. NT |
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#12
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Now without all the comments:
Choosing a portable power tool Choice of power tool is a topic that comes up for discussion at regular intervals on uk.d i y. Opinions do vary. The main buying policies are explained. What do *you* mean by DIY? DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby, or building their own house! It is safe to say that the tool you purchase with the expectation that it will love in a cupboard for 362 days of the year, may well be very different to the one with which you indulge your hobby of fine furniture making five days a week. Class of tool: A wide range is available, sometimes covering the range from =A35 to =A3300. Budget tools It is not uncommon to find exactly the same tool available under several different "brands" where the only difference is the label and the colour of the case. Getting any after sales service and spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible, but also not important, since a new tool is generally cheaper than a repair anyway. Often the retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of these limitations. Although a long warranty may seem attraction remember that you may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement. High End tools There will be a service and support network that will enable tools to be repaired, and spare parts obtained. Needless to say this backup and support has to be paid for in higher tool prices. Mid Range tools The mid range can be even more confusing since it can encompass tools from the "edges" of both categories above - often with the range of tools available under one brand spanning a good proportion quality and price range available. It is also an area with a large number of suppliers, sellers, and advertisers, each competing for your money. Where should I buy from? Many tools are available from a wide range of sources including the big name DIY shop, to the specialised independent tool supplier. A growing market sector is the dedicated "online" seller. Argos is also useful. For easy availability of budget and mid range tools, it is hard to beat the big DIY shops. If you want the best and most knowledgeable advice and after sales service you will need to seek out a dedicated tool merchant, or uk.d-i-y. If you are looking for the best possible price the online shop will often give it to you. There are cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that usually only comes with much higher price tools. The purchasing factors Assuming you have dismissed hiring a tool, that might be worth a paragraph actually, since it is often an option in peoples minds, though not one I'd often encourage. there are some are obvious factors like features of the product and its price that you will consider before you buy, but some are more subtle. For any given purchase you will need to weigh up these factors, since they may often be different for each tool you buy. 1) Tool features 2) Purchase Price 3) Availability of spares and support 4) Tool quality (and quality of results achievable with it) 5) Total cost of ownership (factoring in your time to buy and maintain the tool, cost of spares etc) 6) Comfort of use (Not only ergonomic design, but also factors like weight, noise, vibration, effective dust collection) 7) Speed of operation 8) Availability of suppliers (and service where applicable) 9) How much you anticipate the tool will be used 10) How long you need it to last 11) Brand image Buying policies: The disposable tool For a single job, a cheap disposable tool is often the lowest cost option, cheaper and more convenient than hiring. Almost any DIY shop will have a suitable supply of tools. The down side it that the quality of the tool compared to a hired one may be inferior since the hire shops will typically buy top end tools so as to get the best life out of them, make sure they stand up to the abuse dolled out in unskilled hands, and to keep their trade customers happy! yes, but by the time you get it its probably f---d. This is a real problem with hired tools; if youre travelling to a job, try the tool out before you go. The tool may also be less comfortable to use, achieve lower standard of results, and take longer. Finally, you either need to store or otherwise dispose of the tool when the job is done. The second hand tool Don't dismiss this option! Sometimes places like hire shops will sell off surplus tools. If you can find one that has not been hammered to the edge of its useful life why else would they sell them? Even the stuff theyre hiring out can be like that. this can be a way of picking up a top quality tool for not much money. The buy to try approach If youre not sure how much youll use a tool, a budget one will enable you to try one, and find out what things to look for if you do want to upgrade later. The "buy several" approach The own brand tool may not offer the reliability and performance of a more expensive tool. However the price is often such that some people advocate buying more than one of each tool, often for the less than the price of a single better tool. Should a tool fail, you simply discard it and switch to its replacement and carry on working. (The same policy can actually be applied to any type of tool in any price range if it is important that you can carry on working, not just the "DIY shop special", Even expensive tools bought for business use may fall into this category). You can have several tools "on the go at once". With things like drills this may equate to faster working since you will not need to stop to swap between say a drill bit and a screwdriver bit, just pick up a different tool. On some jobs that can save ages. You need to balance this with the fact that the money spent on two tools may buy one of better quality, which may outlast the two cheaper ones, give better results, and be nicer to use. Also you will need more storage space if you have several of each!. The mid range choice A wide range of brands and qualities. Individual brands may make tools of significantly varying quality. Bear in mind if tempted, and many are, that megapacks of drill bits bundled with tools can be junk in some cases. Mid range tools are often well suited to the less intensive user. The results and quality of work that can be produced will often be higher than with lower end tools, and some after sales service and support may be available frankly I regard that as more of a millstone. I dont like the downtime and aggro that accompanies repairs. (this is often true where the manufacturer sells tools in several ranges (like B&D or Bosch for example). You have ready availability of tools and lots of competition keeps prices low. You may find that the quality, comfort of use, speed etc, may still be lacking. yes, and it can be pretty good too. Quality varies. The "top quality" approach Sometimes only the best will do. If the work you want to do demands the highest quality of finish, or you want the utmost comfort and ease of use from your tools then this might be the approach for you. You can expect tools in this category to stand up to intensive every day use, even for "trade" purposes. Reliability should also be better than the other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily available. if sometimes pricey Ideally suited to the serious DIYer, the tradesman and craftsman. You will be getting the smoothest operation resulting in good finish and low operator fatigue, with good finesse of control. If you have a habit of being a bit "heavy handed" with your tools then remember these were designed to be used and abused on building sites! Sometimes there is just the satisfaction in using and owning "the best" The tools are going to be more expensive, and are more likely to be stolen if not carefully looked after! Note also that just because repair services are available there may be down time waiting for repairs to be carried out. Yes, and I think that needs serious emphasis, it is a real problem with decent tools. It can put people out of action for 1-2 weeks. This is where budget backup tools come in, even cheap old sht can get the job done. Mains or Cordless Over recent years the number of cordless (i.e. battery powered) tools available has grown enormously. In many cases available power is but an extension lead away and so you may not "need" a cordless tool. There are some items (drills / powered screwdrivers notably) for which the cordless tool is desirable as a class of its own - often in addition to a mains equivalent. If in doubt as to whether to go cordless (for things other than drills) you are probably better sticking to mains. There are a few "givens" with cordless tools: they cost more, and will often deliver less power than a similar price / size mains tool, always, and much less. Its inevitable. Codless is a feature you will pay for. To make codless tools affordable, heavy compromises are made. They have to be. Codless tools are rated in volts instead of watts precisely because they are not comparable, and they dont want to tell you how big the difference is. This is getting into what I'm properly qualified in. Take a circ saw for example: the motor power is so much lower that other compromises are made to squeeze acceptable performance. The blade has larger tooth spacing to speed up cut, though it gives a rougher finish. The blade may be thinner to reclaim some lost cut speed, but you will then have a much weaker blade, and one with a less clearance from cutting edge to blade body, making jams much more likely. And you still have lower cut speed after all that, and poor duty cyle as well. Take a codless scerwdriver: expect a fraction of the power, far lower top speed in order to reclaim some of the lost torque, often cheap plastic gears to trim the price, low duty cycle motor to trim price, and low duty cycle batteries. This isnt some personal pet issue, there is a big difference, and the mfrs try to disguise it as much as poss. You only need look at the sizes of the motor in mains vs codless drill to realise just how much difference exists. Electronics is my subject. The other difference is tool life. In short, only buy codless when you specifically want the codlessness, or only expect light duty use with slower and more limited abilities. and if you use them infrequently then they will be flat when you want to use them! i make it a rule to recharge after every job, no matter how little its been used. There is also a huge range of difference between the best and the worst examples. The worst cordless tools are virtually useless. The best can be used as non stop work horses. The single biggest influence on the quality and usability of a cordless tool are its batteries and their charger. It is simply not possible to purchase good quality rechargeable cells at very low cost. Many budget cordless tools are sold at a price that is less than the wholesale cost of a decent set of batteries. So ..=2E.in most cases everything has to give, to try to get acceptable price. The quality of the batteries will affect how long it runs, and the power or torque available. The quality of the charger will affect how long the batteries take to charge, and more importantly, how many times you can recharge and still get useful performance from the tool. Batteries will need replacement eventually. With a budget tool this will usually be a non economic exercise (assuming spares are available), with a higher end tool it may well be more expensive than you expect. Whereas midrange mains kit usually lasts decades. One can repack the batteries with sub-c cells oneself for way less money. A good one will deliver lots of torque and control, even at low speeds. The poorer ones will only deliver torque at high speeds which is far less useful. Are more "volts" better? The more volts, the more cells, the bigger and heavier the tool will be. If you want a nimble easy to use drill/driver this is not a "good thing". Then we come down to quality of batteries again: a top end 14.4V drill will out perform a 18V or 24V budget tool for just this reason, while being smaller and lighter into the bargain. Which brand is which? Bear in mind opinions do vary to some extent: Budget brand tools: NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop "own brand tools", Power Devil, Ferm kinzo, challenge, silverline, Mid range tools Bosch (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey bodied), Freud, PPPro (B&Q), Ryobi 'Skil' I think it is. Not sure tho. And why did someone call their tools 'peepee pro'?? I cant remember if it was erbaurer or ryobi that kept getting slated as the worst of all brands by the woodwork reviewers. High End Makita, Trend, Bosch (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello, Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt, Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee, Panasonic All about Different Tools The following section lists lots of tools, why you may want them, and highlights specific things to look for that are particular to the tool. [feel free to jump in here guys and gals and provide some sections! - this could go on a bit] The jigsaw Budget jigsaws suffer from blade bend, twist, misalignment, wander, and blade snapping due to bending sideways during work. They must be steered by twisting to keep them in line, using them agaunst a straight edge will simply break the blade. Cutting is slow, the cut edge a mess, and expect blade breakages. simpler to treat these as two separate types of tool: The budget / mid range jigsaw: Ideal for cutting curved lines, (indeed without practice, that may be the only type you can cut!). If you need to cut out shapes, (i.e. hole for a sink in a worktop), or make some ornate woodwork this may be the tool for the job. If you need a jigsaw then there are few alternatives, there are some jobs that only a jigsaw will do. The speed of cut is relatively slow (ones with pendulum action will cut faster (and rougher)). The tools are pretty small and light. They are often a bit uncomfortable to use since you get a fair bit of vibration. They are not suited to being a general purpose saw (a circular saw will often be a better choice). The quality of the cut is moderate, and will need a fair amount of sanding etc prior to finishing if it is to be on display. Features worth having include tool less blade change (sometimes called SDS just to confuse), an illuminated cutting line is nice, as is a dust blower that keeps the cutting line clear of sawdust. The high end jigsaw This will do all of the things the budget one will do. However it is a far more general purpose tool. It cuts quickly and smoothly with little or no vibration. It is much better at cutting straight lines, and can often be used with a straight edge or rip fence without the blade wandering to "interesting" angles. Tool less blade change is a given, as is a good speed controller. The base plate will be a solid cast metal rather than a flexible pressed steel one. With a fine or medium blade it will also give a very fine finish to a cut. The Drill The SDS Drill SDS drills operate in 3 modes: drill drill and hammer hammer only, no rotation. Descriptions routinely fail to mention which functions the machine does. Beware, many dont do all 3. Look for: sensible weight, ie 2.2kg not 5kg one that does all 3 functions! a brand name that will survive chisel position lock when used in hammer mode. SDS Downsides: Sds drill bits are several times the price. Cant put hex bits in an SDS chuck The Sander so many types... a whole faq in itself probably. The Circular Saw Many Low cost circs do a fairly good job. Avoid power devil, have had problems with the blade guard. Low priced laser line ones often have an unalignable laser line. Avoid that 1970s one for =A31, it has no riving knife and no blade guard, both dangers, and performance best described as pathetic. The Planer there is a technique needed for electric planes, and not everyone gets the hang of it. When going onto the workpiece, all th weight needs to be put on the front end of the plane. When coming off, all weight should be on the rear end. Otherwise you'll gouge lumps out at one end or the other. There is no blade guard, the blade is still spinning when the motor noise has stopped, and the lightest touch can take a finger off, so always treat with respect, never get cocky. The Router The Biscuit Jointer The Reciprocating Saw The Mitre Saw Low cost ones suffer from: plastic bases that bend out of alignment as you press the workpiece down poor blade that can burn the wood imperfect alignment all round failure to extract dust Avoid the uncommon rock bottom ones that use a steel tipped blade. Such blades cut slow and dull fast. Check the dimensions of cut are adequate for your uses. Prices: =A326-=A3400. I wonder if its worth mentioning the old hammer drill tricks used in the days of non-hammer drills? Occasional diyers may only have non hammer types, even today. NT |
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#13
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On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:50:36 GMT, "Mark" wrote:
John Rumm typed: What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! Only the wife is Perfect, but it's a reasoned argument that's hard to fault. I guess she told you to say that..... :-) Found this in the last Argos catalogue p150, graphically shows why cheep tools can disappoint some. ;-( Scan at http://tinyurl.com/4jx2z Oh dear...... This really does show how much of marketing game all of this is for the retailers. - The plate of the saw is very obviously bent and in the most obvious place. - The user is wearing gloves - basically unsafe practice with a circular saw. - But it does have a laser and a soft grip. - .. and with names like Challenge and Xtreme it must be really good and suitable for sustained use. - I suppose that "Challenge" can be seen in a number of ways. What a crock of ****. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#14
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#15
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"Mark" wrote in message ... John Rumm typed: What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! Only the wife is Perfect, but it's a reasoned argument that's hard to fault. Found this in the last Argos catalogue p150, graphically shows why cheep tools can disappoint some. ;-( Scan at http://tinyurl.com/4jx2z Nothing wrong with the saw. The man is holding it still while the photo is being taken, probably a number of shots. It looks like it is being pushed up by the blade. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#16
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 8 Mar 2005 21:24:41 -0800, wrote: I can't imagine why anybody would want to do business with Argos. You must lack imagination then, personal experience, or perhaps they see you coming in. They want to be a bricks and mortar retailer and an internet trader and fail miserably at both Really? IME out of stock is unusual and they SMS me when its back in, never experienced a reserved item not reserved, never had a problem returning duff Challenge gear, or any other items for that matter , home deliveries always in agreed time band. What's your problem? M&S OTOH never have my trouser size. Jim A |
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#17
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"Jim Alexander" wrote in message ... "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 8 Mar 2005 21:24:41 -0800, wrote: I can't imagine why anybody would want to do business with Argos. You must lack imagination then, personal experience, or perhaps they see you coming in. They want to be a bricks and mortar retailer and an internet trader and fail miserably at both Really? IME out of stock is unusual and they SMS me when its back in, never experienced a reserved item not reserved, never had a problem returning duff Challenge gear, or any other items for that matter , home deliveries always in agreed time band. What's your problem? Little Middle England petty snobbery is the problem. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#18
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wrote in message ups.com... People tend to dismiss cheap old stuff, but it has its place. Some dismiss cheap new power tools too If I were travelling out on jobs I'd take some cheapo backup kit in the car/van. tool failures and losses happen too often, why choose to be stuck That is why it is best to buy two mid-range power tools rather than one expensive one. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#19
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John Rumm wrote:
! What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! No news is good news. It looks pretty good to me, and I don't know enough to comment further, well done for making such an effort. -- Holly, in France. Holiday home in the Dordogne, website: http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr |
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#20
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Lobster wrote:
Good job... Ta I think in this draft you've dropped any mention of what I consider to be one valid reason for not going for top-end power tools, and that is their nickability. I suspect most people who take their tools out of High end tools, second para begins "The tools are going to be more expensive, and are more likely to be stolen if not carefully looked after!" their home or business premises do so without insurance, so it's not a trivial issue. A collection of four or five high-end tools could easily represent a £1K investment; very attractive to thieves and potentially disastrous to lose; the equivalent in cheapo brands could probably be had for 130 quid - far less desirable to John Q Lowlife, and an 'affordable' loss if the worst did happen. Yup, perhaps more emphasis is required. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#21
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In article ,
Andy Hall wrote: I can't imagine why anybody would want to do business with Argos. I'd agree with that. It seems to be full of chavs. And takes ages to actually complete a transaction and leave with the goods. Only worse place is Ikea. And I've never tried either at peak times. -- *Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#23
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On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 12:37:21 +0000, in uk.d-i-y John Rumm
wrote: I think I have incorporated most of the comments from the previous thread, so hear is a revised version. There is now a section on specific tools and what one can do with them - contribuitions for this section especially would be welcome! *** Choosing a portable power tool Choice of power tool is a topic that comes up for discussion at regular intervals on uk.d i y, which frequently generates long threads of opinion and counter opinion! (aka arguments, and flame wars!) Much of this discussion seems to stem from different peoples understanding of what €œDIY€? is all about, as well as each person having often conflicting needs and expectations. Bear in mind that the DIY FAQ is a stand-alone website and some visitors (probably a majority) have never visited uk.d-i-y. I know this because they email directly for assistance. Therefore I think an introduction discussing uk.d-i-y is not appropriate; the main FAQ has an intro covering that. Keep it to power tools. I also support bigcat/NT's point about waffle, though that word is a bit strong, and his severe snipping perhaps overstates it in relentlessly hammering the point home. I would say the content is as John has it is generally fine, but it needs precis-ing to make it more readable. It reads like a bit like a learned paper; I previously called it 'too formal'. Andy says it is a matter of style, which I don't argue with, and I'll be happy to receive whatever style John as author finishes up using. Comments are for him to act on as he sees fit. To help focus discussion, this section of the FAQ sets out some of the various tool buying policies that are routinely suggested. If you use this to identify which policy most closely resembles your favoured approach, you should be able to solicit advice from the group that takes this into consideration, and will save you needing to wade through too many heated debates! The main purpose of a FAQ is to impart the information directly. Pointers about where to get more info (e.g. uk.d-i-y) should come nearer the end. What do *you* mean by DIY? A reader first coming to a FAQ wants to know if it is relevant to him (or her). He does not want to read 1/2 of it in order to find it is not. So, is this FAQ going to be help a newbie to know in what areas he can benefit from some power? Does it have some nitty-gritty advice for a seasoned diy-er who knows he wants a certain tool and is it looking for advice on what features to look for? Does it contain a run-down on available makes and point out the good, bad and ugly? Of these, which section carries the main emphasis? All this should be answered in the first few paragraphs, otherwise many will not progress further. This is not as daft a questions as you may think! Since it will have a big impact on the tools you will consider €œsuitable€?. DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby. It could be as simple as occasionally erecting a shelf, or changing a tap washer. For others it could be as elaborate as building their own house! For many today (especially if you live in the south east) DIY is often the only option because finding good trades people willing to actually quote or even turn up for work on some jobs is getting increasingly difficult! The reader knows what DIY is! He is reading this FAQ because he wants to know about Power Tools, and is keen enough to have already found the DIY FAQ, or perhaps googled on 'power tools'. That reminds me, how about adding a keyword section to help google to classify it properly? It is safe to say that the tool you purchase with the expectation that it will live in a cupboard for 362 days of the year, may well be very different to the one with which you indulge your hobby of fine furniture making five days a week. So before deciding on much else, it is advisable to decide on what level of use you anticipate making of the tool. Class of tool: There are a huge variety of power tools available from the general purpose to the highly specialised. Almost every DIY shop will not only stock a selection of well know brands, they will often offer their own range of €œown brand€? tools, and prices for similar looking tools can range from as little as £5 to well over £500. Isn't this £5-£500 an exaggeration for 'similar looking' tools? I can believe the range (I think) but I would expect them to look a lot different, one end from the other. A £20 B&Q router looks a lot different to a £300 one, and that's only 15:1. The choice can seem bewildering. The reader know that - that is why he is here. Understanding the way in which these different ranges of tools are marketed and distributed can go a long way to help understanding this large range. Budget tools The prices of budget tools in recent years have fallen dramatically. The majority of tools are manufactured in the far east and then €œbranded€? for the eventual retailer. It is not uncommon to find exactly the same tool available under several different €œbrands€? where the only difference is the label and the colour of the case. Since access to the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) is limited, getting any after sales service and spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. Often the retailer may offer more attractive warranty terms to mitigate some of these limitations. So if a tool breaks during its warranty period, then the retailer will simply replace it. However if it breaks after this time, the tool will need to be discarded and a replacement sought. Although a long warranty may seem attraction remember that you may need to factor in the cost of your time should frequent trips to the shop be needed to acquire a warranty replacement. High End tools At the high end, tools are often built and assembled by factories owned by the brand maker, or built for them by OEMs to the brands own specification and quality standards. There will be a service and support network that will enable tools to be repaired, and spare parts obtained. Needless to say this backup and support has to be paid for in higher tool prices. Mid Range tools The mid range can be even more confusing since it can encompass tools from the €œedges€? of both categories above €“ often with the range of tools available under one brand spanning a good proportion quality and price range available. It is also an area with a large number of suppliers, sellers, and advertisers, each competing for your money. Where should I buy from? Many tools are available from a wide range of sources including the big name DIY shop, to the specialised independent tool supplier. A growing market sector is the dedicated €œonline€? seller. For easy availability of budget and mid range tools, it is hard to beat the big DIY shops. If you want the best and most knowledgeable advice and after sales service you will need to seek out a dedicated tool merchant. If you are looking for the best possible price the online shop will often give it to you. There are cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that usually only comes with much higher price tools. Almost everything down to this point is for the newbie. Our more experienced readers will be giving up. They need a heading they can jump to from the top (it will become a jump link in the html). The purchasing factors Assuming you have dismissed hiring a tool, there are some are obvious factors like features of the product and its price that you will consider before you buy, but some are more subtle. For any given purchase you will need to weigh up these factors, since they may often be different for each tool you buy. 1) Tool features 2) Purchase Price 3) Availability of spares and support 4) Tool quality (and quality of results achievable with it) 5) Total cost of ownership (factoring in your time to buy and maintain the tool, cost of spares etc) 6) Comfort of use (Not only ergonomic design, but also factors like weight, noise, vibration, effective dust collection) 7) Speed of operation 8) Availability of suppliers (and service where applicable) 9) How much you anticipate the tool will be used 10) How long you need it to last 11) Brand image Useful checklist for experienced diy-ers. Mostly over the head of newbies. Buying policies: This mainly for newbies, in the following. Pros might pick up some hints too. The disposable tool This is an easy one! Sometimes a tool is needed for a specific job and then that is it. Chances that it will be used again are slim. Often hiring a tool is a good way to meet this need, but that will not always be cost effective or practical if you are going to need it on an ad hoc basis spread over several weeks. In this category tools from the cheaper end of the market can be ideal, often you are not too concerned what the life expectancy of the tool will be, so long as it gets the job done. If it lasts longer then that is a bonus. Almost any DIY shop will have a suitable supply of tools. The down side it that the quality of the tool compared to a hired one may be inferior since the hire shops will typically buy top end tools so as to get the best life out of them, make sure they stand up to the abuse dolled out in unskilled hands, and to keep their trade customers happy! The tool may also be less comfortable to use, achieve lower standard of results, and take longer. Finally, you either need to store or otherwise dispose of the tool when the job is done. The second hand tool Dont dismiss this option! Sometimes places like hire shops will sell off surplus tools. If you can find one that has not been hammered to the edge of its useful life this can be a way of picking up a top quality tool for not much money. The buy to try approach Sometimes you are not sure how much actual use you will make of a particular tool, but you cant be sure until you have a chance to try one for yourself. Hiring can be a solution here although you would need to a specific project in mind. The alternative is to buy one from the budget or mid range, to see how you get on with it. You may find that your purchase satisfies your need, or it may be a stepping stone to something better. It also means when you do buy €œsomething better€? you have a much clearer understanding of what features to look for and which ones can be dismissed as €œfluff€?. The €œbuy several€? approach The own brand tool may not offer the reliability and performance of a more expensive tool. However the price is often such that some people advocate buying more than one of each tool, often for the less than the price of a single better tool. Should a tool fail, you simply discard it and switch to its replacement and carry on working. (The same policy can actually be applied to any type of tool in any price range if it is important that you can carry on working, not just the €œDIY shop special€?, Even expensive tools bought for business use may fall into this category). You can have several tools €œon the go at once€?. With things like drills this may equate to faster working since you will not need to stop to swap between say a drill bit and a screwdriver bit, just pick up a different tool. You need to balance this with the fact that the money spent on two tools may buy one of better quality, which may outlast the two cheaper ones, give better results, and be nicer to use. Also you will need more storage space if you have several of each!. The mid range choice This is the hardest range to purchase from, because there is a huge choice, and it is not possible to make blanket purchasing decisions based on brand for example. Each brand will have good and not so good products in this class. Buying from this range is often what the ad men call an €œaspirational purchase€? (i.e. you would like something better, but budget dictates you buy something similar but cheaper!). Mid range tools are often well suited to the less intensive user. The results and quality of work that can be produced will often be higher than with lower end tools, and some after sales service and support may be available (this is often true where the manufacturer sells tools in several ranges (like B&D or Bosch for example). You have ready availability of tools and lots of competition keeps prices low. You may find that the quality, comfort of use, speed etc, may still be lacking. The €œtop quality€? approach Sometimes only the best will do. If the work you want to do demands the highest quality of finish, or you want the utmost comfort and ease of use from your tools then this might be the approach for you. You can expect tools in this category to stand up to intensive every day use, even for €œtrade€? purposes. Reliability should also be better than the other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily available. Ideally suited to the serious DIYer, the tradesman and craftsman. You will be getting the smoothest operation resulting in good finish and low operator fatigue, with good finesse of control. If you have a habit of being a bit €œheavy handed€? with your tools then remember these were designed to be used and abused on building sites! Sometimes there is just the satisfaction in using and owning €œthe best€? The tools are going to be more expensive, and are more likely to be stolen if not carefully looked after! Note also that just because repair services are available there may be down time waiting for repairs to be carried out. Mains or Cordless Quite a few pros will find the section below interesting and probably useful too. But it might fit better under "All about Different Tools". Over recent years the number of cordless (i.e. battery powered) tools available has grown enormously. In many cases available power is but an extension lead away and so you may not €œneed€? a cordless tool. There are some items (drills / powered screwdrivers notably) for which the cordless tool is desirable as a class of its own - often in addition to a mains equivalent. If in doubt as to whether to go cordless (for things other than drills) you are probably better sticking to mains. There are a few €œgivens€? with cordless tools: they cost more, and will €œgivens€?, yeuch!! jargon. often deliver less power than a similar price / size mains tool, and if you use them infrequently then they will be flat when you want to use them! There is also a huge range of difference between the best and the worst examples. The worst cordless tools are virtually useless. The best can be used as non stop work horses. The single biggest influence on the quality and usability of a cordless tool are its batteries and their charger. It is simply not possible to purchase good quality rechargeable cells at very low cost. Many budget cordless tools are sold at a price that is less than the wholesale cost of a decent set of batteries. So something has to give! The quality of the batteries will affect how long it runs, and the power or torque available. The quality of the charger will affect how long the batteries take to charge, and more importantly, how many times you can recharge and still get useful performance from the tool. Batteries will need replacement eventually. With a budget tool this will usually be a non economic exercise (assuming spares are available), with a higher end tool it may well be more expensive than you expect. The other influence on performance is the quality of the motor and speed controller used. A good one will deliver lots of torque and control, even at low speeds. The poorer ones will only deliver torque at high speeds which is far less useful. Are more €œvolts€? better In the quest for more power, performance and speed from battery operated tools, there has been a slide upwards in battery voltage. This suits the marketers well since there is a nice €œnumber€? to use a sales hook. The bigger the number the better right? Err, no not always. The more volts, the more cells, the bigger and heavier the tool will be. If you want a nimble easy to use drill/driver this is not a €œgood thing€?. Then we come down to quality of batteries again: a top end 14.4V drill will out perform a 18V or 24V budget tool for just this reason, while being smaller and lighter into the bargain. Which brand is which? If there is a link to this point (and there will be) it is where I reckon most will jump first. Is there any way it can be brought nearer the top of the document, rather than the in last 1/4? I am coming to the view that we really have two FAQs here, or at least 2 major sections. The first section is all about the market and (with the exception of cordless) does not address any specific tool. It explains what power-tools are in general and how they are graded across the market. The second section (below here) is where someone would head if they actually want to buy a tool to get some specific job done, or to find out if a tool exists which would make their life easier. I appreciate that many blanks are yet to be filled in! If the FAQ is divided into two sections like that, most of the comments above would evaporate, because the reader would clearly see the distinction and go to the part that addresses their immediate concern. Identifying which of the above groups a tool belongs to is not always straight forward. Many people will not even agree which is which. Some brands may make tools in several distinct categories, (which may or may not be distinguished in some way). In recent years many of the big name makers have acquired smaller brands so as to be able to compete in several different ranges without confusing people as to which market they are aiming for (i.e. B&D own Elu, Skil, and DeWalt) Budget brand tools: NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop €œown brand tools€?, Power Devil, Ferm Links to manufacturers etc would be useful. Mid range tools Bosch (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey bodied), Freud, PPPro (B&Q), Ryobi Can you explain the body colour significance? Do they promote the colour as a distinguishing mechanism, or is it just today's fashion colour? High End Makita, Trend, Bosch (blue bodied), Hitachi, Festool, Fein, Lamello, Freud, Elu, Metabo, DeWalt, Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee, Panasonic All about Different Tools The following section lists lots of tools, why you may want them, and highlights specific things to look for that are particular to the tool. [feel free to jump in here guys and gals and provide some sections! €“ this could go on a bit] The jigsaw This is an example of a tool where there is a massive shift in performance as you move from budget to high end. To the extent that a high end tool is to all intents and purposes a different tool to the low end. It makes answering the question €œwhy would I want one?€? a bit tricky since the range of things you might do with a good one is much wider that those you would contemplate for a poor one. Hence it is simpler to treat these as two separate types of tool: It would be helpful to explain what this extra "range of things you might do" is. The budget / mid range jigsaw: Ideal for cutting curved lines, (indeed without practice, that may be the only type you can cut!). If you need to cut out shapes, (i.e. hole for a sink in a worktop), or make some ornate woodwork this may be the tool for the job. If you need a jigsaw then there are few alternatives, there are some jobs that only a jigsaw will do. The speed of cut is relatively slow (ones with pendulum action will cut faster (and rougher)). The tools are pretty small and light. They are often a bit uncomfortable to use since you get a fair bit of vibration. They are not suited to being a general purpose saw (a circular saw will often be a better choice). The quality of the cut is moderate, and will need a fair amount of sanding etc prior to finishing if it is to be on display. Features worth having include tool less blade change (sometimes called SDS just to confuse), an illuminated cutting line is nice, as is a dust blower that keeps the cutting line clear of sawdust. The high end jigsaw This will do all of the things the budget one will do. However it is a far more general purpose tool. It cuts quickly and smoothly with little or no vibration. It is much better at cutting straight lines, and can often be used with a straight edge or rip fence without the blade wandering to €œinteresting€? angles. This doesn't seem to offer an extra "range of things you might do", just more accuracy. Tool less blade change is a given, as I suggest "Blades can be changed without the need for Allen keys", as is a good speed controller. The base plate will be a solid cast metal rather than a flexible pressed steel one. With a fine or medium blade it will also give a very fine finish to a cut. What is it about the high-end jigsaw that overcomes the deficiencies listed for the low end one. The Drill The SDS Drill The Sander The Circular Saw The Planer The Router The Biscuit Jointer The Reciprocating Saw The Mitre Saw Tables for mounting saw, router. Work Centres We are presumably not trying to cover fixed workshop tools like thicknessers, spindle cutters? Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ The Google uk.d-i-y archive is at http://tinyurl.com/65kwq Remove NOSPAM from address to email me |
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#24
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On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:32:46 -0000, in uk.d-i-y "Doctor Evil"
wrote: "Mark" wrote in message ... John Rumm typed: What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! Only the wife is Perfect, but it's a reasoned argument that's hard to fault. Found this in the last Argos catalogue p150, graphically shows why cheep tools can disappoint some. ;-( Scan at http://tinyurl.com/4jx2z Nothing wrong with the saw. The man is holding it still while the photo is being taken, probably a number of shots. It looks like it is being pushed up by the blade. Oh dear, I am in agreement with IMM. Not with the "Nothing wrong with the saw" bit though - it certainly looks flimsy. I'm going to lie down in a dark room now. Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ The Google uk.d-i-y archive is at http://tinyurl.com/65kwq Remove NOSPAM from address to email me |
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#25
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"Phil Addison" wrote in message ... On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:32:46 -0000, in uk.d-i-y "Doctor Evil" wrote: "Mark" wrote in message ... John Rumm typed: What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! Only the wife is Perfect, but it's a reasoned argument that's hard to fault. Found this in the last Argos catalogue p150, graphically shows why cheep tools can disappoint some. ;-( Scan at http://tinyurl.com/4jx2z Nothing wrong with the saw. The man is holding it still while the photo is being taken, probably a number of shots. It looks like it is being pushed up by the blade. Oh dear, I am in agreement with IMM. Not with the "Nothing wrong with the saw" bit though - it certainly looks flimsy. I'm going to lie down in a dark room now. Can you take some tablets as well. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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#26
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wrote:
can be translated as 'opinions will vary.' I don't think that adequately covers it when you look back at the number of discussions that happen just as a result of a gulf in understanding. For somone who only ever does minor jobs it may never occur to them that DIYers take on jobs that to them are things "only builders should do". because finding good trades people willing to actually quote or even turn up for work on some jobs is getting increasingly difficult! John this is a guide to buying tools, not choosing tupperware. Snip it This is a good guide, but the waffle is my one gripe with it. When Im buying tools I couldnt give a monkeys about the distribution of labour in the building market. I added this in response to coment on the first draft (needless to say I am not going to please everyone here) For many it would seem to be a key motivation - certainly one that will push them in to more "serious" DIY (and hence choice of tool). The prices of budget tools in recent years have fallen dramatically. The majority of tools are manufactured in the far east and then "branded" for the eventual retailer. redundant, snip Don't think it is, in the sense that recognising the two classes of tool will immediatly tell you a fair bit about what you can expect. getting any after sales service and spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. but also not important, since a new tool is generally cheaper than a repair anyway. If I buy this type of tool I'm not expecting to get it repaired any day. I will reply to this here, as several folks have mentioned it. The assumption seems to be that service and support will only ever be required should the tool break and need fixing. I think this is a too narrow view. What if I want to get a replacement rip fence for my circular saw? If it was a B&D or bosch it would be simple enough given a helpful retailer. For a shed special probably impossible. The argument that the tool is cheap enough does not seem to hold water in this case. If you want the best and most knowledgeable advice and after sales service you will need to seek out a dedicated tool merchant. seek out uk.d-i-y, much more knowledgeable and impartial. In most cases. True, but if they are reading the FAQ chances are they have found us, or will do shortly ;-) There are cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that usually only comes with much higher price tools. would you explain? Axminster would be a good example... in that they will go the extra mile for customers. I would anticipate more luck getting a replacement rip fence for one of their "white" circular saws than from B&Q for example. Assuming you have dismissed hiring a tool, that might be worth a paragraph actually, since it is often an option in peoples minds, though not one I'd often encourage. What would you want to see it cover? Yup, but could all be said in 2-3 lines. Sure it could... then again we are not writing a text book here. why else would they sell them? Even the stuff theyre hiring out can be like that. True, sometimes it is a case they will replace a bunch of similar tools in one go - some will be better than others. Bear in mind if tempted, and many are, that megapacks of drill bits bundled with tools can be junk in some cases. Yup - worth adding somewhere I think other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily available. if sometimes pricey If I want to buy new battey for a Makita drill it will be much the same cost as had I have bought it with the drill... If I want one for a "challenge extreame" it will cost the same as a new drill and what is more will come with one! always, and much less. Its inevitable. Codless is a feature you will pay for. To make codless tools affordable, heavy compromises are made. They have to be. Codless tools are rated in volts instead of watts precisely because they are not comparable, and they dont want to tell you how big the difference is. This is getting into what I'm properly qualified in. Then you will know that it is quite easy to drain a well matched NiCd pack at 2kW for example... The trade of (on better tools) is between power and run time - you can have all the power you want if you don't mind a 5 min battery life Take a codless scerwdriver: expect a fraction of the power, far lower Not compared to a decent 18V high end tool. There is also the point to bear in mind that once it has enough torque to snap a 6" screw, more is not going to be of much practical use. top speed in order to reclaim some of the lost torque, often cheap plastic gears to trim the price, low duty cycle motor to trim price, and low duty cycle batteries. Exactly what I would avoid budget cordless tools. This isnt some personal pet issue, there is a big difference, and the There is also a huge difference between the worst and best of bread... mfrs try to disguise it as much as poss. You only need look at the sizes of the motor in mains vs codless drill to realise just how much difference exists. Electronics is my subject. The main thing a mains drill (for example) will give you over a top end cordless is endurance. If you want to run a wire brush for an hour and a half then mains is the way to go. i make it a rule to recharge after every job, no matter how little its been used. Poor quality NiCd packs have a frightening auto discharge rate. Fully charge them and two weeks later they will be flat. Whereas midrange mains kit usually lasts decades. Dont know if its worth mentioning that one can repack the batteries with sub-c cells oneself for way less money. Depends on what you mean by less. For a budget tool the cells will likely cost more than the whole tool. 'Skil' I think it is. Not sure tho. Yup... -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#27
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Phil Addison wrote:
Bear in mind that the DIY FAQ is a stand-alone website and some visitors (probably a majority) have never visited uk.d-i-y. I know this because they email directly for assistance. Therefore I think an introduction discussing uk.d-i-y is not appropriate; the main FAQ has an intro covering that. Keep it to power tools. Yup fair point, I was not considering the folks who arrive at the FAQ directly. I also support bigcat/NT's point about waffle, though that word is a bit strong, and his severe snipping perhaps overstates it in relentlessly hammering the point home. I would say the content is as John has it is generally fine, but it needs precis-ing to make it more readable. It reads like a bit like a learned paper; I previously called it 'too formal'. Andy says it is a matter of style, which I don't argue with, and I'll be happy to receive whatever style John as author finishes up using. Comments are for him to act on as he sees fit. I will rewrite some sections and see where I can go with them... I don't fancy cutting it down to NT's suggested level of terseness since I don't think that will serve the newbie that well To help focus discussion, this section of the FAQ sets out some of the various tool buying policies that are routinely suggested. If you use this to identify which policy most closely resembles your favoured approach, you should be able to solicit advice from the group that takes this into consideration, and will save you needing to wade through too many heated debates! The main purpose of a FAQ is to impart the information directly. Pointers about where to get more info (e.g. uk.d-i-y) should come nearer the end. What do *you* mean by DIY? A reader first coming to a FAQ wants to know if it is relevant to him (or her). He does not want to read 1/2 of it in order to find it is not. So, is this FAQ going to be help a newbie to know in what areas he can benefit from some power? Does it have some nitty-gritty advice for a seasoned diy-er who knows he wants a certain tool and is it looking for advice on what features to look for? Does it contain a run-down on available makes and point out the good, bad and ugly? Of these, which section carries the main emphasis? Yup, I think I need to start working on the structure and organisation, plus add an "executive summary" to direct readers to the relevant (to them) sections. All this should be answered in the first few paragraphs, otherwise many will not progress further. agreed This is not as daft a questions as you may think! Since it will have a big impact on the tools you will consider €œsuitable€?. DIY will mean different things to different people. For some it will be about saving money, for others it may be a relaxing hobby. It could be as simple as occasionally erecting a shelf, or changing a tap washer. For others it could be as elaborate as building their own house! For many today (especially if you live in the south east) DIY is often the only option because finding good trades people willing to actually quote or even turn up for work on some jobs is getting increasingly difficult! The reader knows what DIY is! He is reading this FAQ because he wants to know about Power Tools, and is keen enough to have already found the DIY FAQ, or perhaps googled on 'power tools'. Does he know what DIY "is" though? He may need some info to put his own vision of DIY into a larger perspective. That reminds me, how about adding a keyword section to help google to classify it properly? yup can do... Isn't this £5-£500 an exaggeration for 'similar looking' tools? I can believe the range (I think) but I would expect them to look a lot Depends on the tool I guess.... for a SDS drill then probably, for a sliding mitre saw then no (not that you will get one for a fiver yet). different, one end from the other. A £20 B&Q router looks a lot different to a £300 one, and that's only 15:1. Depends on what you know about routers I suppose. Mains or Cordless Quite a few pros will find the section below interesting and probably useful too. But it might fit better under "All about Different Tools". Yup, was not too sure as to the best place for that bit... there is also lots more detail on batteries that could go in, (cell matching and implications of etc) but I don't think it adds to the message There are a few €œgivens€? with cordless tools: they cost more, and will €œgivens€?, yeuch!! jargon. ;-) yup might lose that... Which brand is which? If there is a link to this point (and there will be) it is where I reckon most will jump first. Is there any way it can be brought nearer the top of the document, rather than the in last 1/4? In a web format, yup easy - the class titles can be hot linked to the descriptions etc, the brand groups could be boxed out from the main text which flows round it etc. The next draft I may do on the web anyway so as to play with some of these dears I am coming to the view that we really have two FAQs here, or at least 2 major sections. The first section is all about the market and (with the exception of cordless) does not address any specific tool. It explains what power-tools are in general and how they are graded across the market. The second section (below here) is where someone would head if they actually want to buy a tool to get some specific job done, or to find out if a tool exists which would make their life easier. I appreciate that many blanks are yet to be filled in! If the FAQ is divided into two sections like that, most of the comments above would evaporate, because the reader would clearly see the distinction and go to the part that addresses their immediate concern. Yes good idea. Budget brand tools: NuTool, JCB, Many DIY shop €œown brand tools€?, Power Devil, Ferm Links to manufacturers etc would be useful. yup Bosch (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey bodied), Freud, PPPro (B&Q), Ryobi Can you explain the body colour significance? Do they promote the colour as a distinguishing mechanism, or is it just today's fashion colour? I was thinking of the way that Bosch for example have DIY tools that are green (and of variable quality), and a pro range which is blue and on the whole pretty good, etc. Wicks do grey bodied stuff which tends to be decent brands badged for them, while the other colours (black mostly) can be any old tat. It would be helpful to explain what this extra "range of things you might do" is. I did hint at that (i.e. cut smooth and fast and in straight line... I was kind of leaving the factoring the imprecations of that new found ability to the reader) This will do all of the things the budget one will do. However it is a far more general purpose tool. It cuts quickly and smoothly with little or no vibration. It is much better at cutting straight lines, and can often be used with a straight edge or rip fence without the blade wandering to €œinteresting€? angles. This doesn't seem to offer an extra "range of things you might do", just more accuracy. You more examples would be good. The basic answer is stuff you would not do with a low end jigsaw because the quality of finish matters, you need a straight cut, it would take too long etc. Tool less blade change is a given, as I suggest "Blades can be changed without the need for Allen keys", as or screw driver is a good speed controller. The base plate will be a solid cast metal rather than a flexible pressed steel one. With a fine or medium blade it will also give a very fine finish to a cut. What is it about the high-end jigsaw that overcomes the deficiencies listed for the low end one. Rigidity of design, accuracy of alignment of parts, accurate blade support, decent effort made with the counter balancing of the mechanism to reduce vibration, attention to detail like blowers etc, soft start, feedback speed control, soft shoe covers, rip fence or beam trammel attachment bush, motor rated for endurance and continuous use, better dust extraction capabilities (i.e. some!), balance Tables for mounting saw, router. Work Centres We are presumably not trying to cover fixed workshop tools like thicknessers, spindle cutters? Not yet - another FAQ or section perhaps.... it is also not so much of a newbie area. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 00:08:14 +0000, in uk.d-i-y John Rumm
wrote: Phil Addison wrote: 8 snippity snip 8 I will rewrite some sections and see where I can go with them... I don't fancy cutting it down to NT's suggested level of terseness since I don't think that will serve the newbie that well I don't think he meant it as verbatim copy ;-) 8 snippity snip 8 A reader first coming to a FAQ wants to know if it is relevant to him (or her). He does not want to read 1/2 of it in order to find it is not. So, is this FAQ going to be help a newbie to know in what areas he can benefit from some power? Does it have some nitty-gritty advice for a seasoned diy-er who knows he wants a certain tool and is it looking for advice on what features to look for? Does it contain a run-down on available makes and point out the good, bad and ugly? Of these, which section carries the main emphasis? Yup, I think I need to start working on the structure and organisation, plus add an "executive summary" to direct readers to the relevant (to them) sections. I quite like Word's outline mode for that. Quite easy to drag whole sections around, promote, demote etc. It does have a use! 8 snippity snip 8 The reader knows what DIY is! He is reading this FAQ because he wants to know about Power Tools, and is keen enough to have already found the DIY FAQ, or perhaps googled on 'power tools'. Does he know what DIY "is" though? He may need some info to put his own vision of DIY into a larger perspective. Agreed. It is quite a difficult job to interweave these threads from differing perspectives. Hot-links should help, as you say (later). 8 snippity snip 8 different, one end from the other. A £20 B&Q router looks a lot different to a £300 one, and that's only 15:1. Depends on what you know about routers I suppose. Not a lot - that's why he's here ;-) Mains or Cordless 8 snippity snip 8 If there is a link to this point (and there will be) it is where I reckon most will jump first. Is there any way it can be brought nearer the top of the document, rather than the in last 1/4? In a web format, yup easy - the class titles can be hot linked to the descriptions etc, the brand groups could be boxed out from the main text which flows round it etc. The next draft I may do on the web anyway so as to play with some of these dears OK. (dears/ideas??) 8 snippity snip 8 Bosch (green bodied), Black & Decker, Skill, Wicks own brand (grey bodied), Freud, PPPro (B&Q), Ryobi Can you explain the body colour significance? Do they promote the colour as a distinguishing mechanism, or is it just today's fashion colour? I was thinking of the way that Bosch for example have DIY tools that are green (and of variable quality), and a pro range which is blue and on the whole pretty good, etc. Wicks do grey bodied stuff which tends to be decent brands badged for them, while the other colours (black mostly) can be any old tat. It's just that you put the colour in brackets. I (the reader) am not sure if they just happen to be that colour, or if Bosch etc really call them their Green Pro Range, or whatever. I don't want to march up to a trade counter boldly saying "I want an xyz from their green pro range" only to be told they are yellow this year. Its a trivial point - forget it. It would be helpful to explain what this extra "range of things you might do" is. I did hint at that (i.e. cut smooth and fast and in straight line... I was kind of leaving the factoring the imprecations of that new found ability to the reader) I was looking for 'how the better performance is achieved', so that if you say it is by e.g. having a sturdy sole plate, I can make a point of checking the sturdiness of one I am buying. This is so I can pick up a tool in a shop and check if it seems to have the pro features without actually having to use it to see if it can cut straight and true. Mind you, a dealer that would lend you one to try out as well would be nice - some hopes! This will do all of the things the budget one will do. However it is a far more general purpose tool. It cuts quickly and smoothly with little or no vibration. It is much better at cutting straight lines, and can often be used with a straight edge or rip fence without the blade wandering to €œinteresting€? angles. This doesn't seem to offer an extra "range of things you might do", just more accuracy. You more examples would be good. The basic answer is stuff you would not do with a low end jigsaw because the quality of finish matters, you need a straight cut, it would take too long etc. This may be getting too detailed, but are there specific examples of what tasks can be done ok with a cheap one and a good one. I have a cheapo jigsaw and its OK for hacking out cutouts for pipes under my sink. Using it to cut some chipboard flooring to fit round a projection produced some wavy cuts though - not that it mattered much, the skirting covered it. Tool less blade change is a given, as I suggest "Blades can be changed without the need for Allen keys", as or screw driver Not possessing a pro jigsaw, just how is a tool-less blade fixed in? 8 snippity snip 8 What is it about the high-end jigsaw that overcomes the deficiencies listed for the low end one. Rigidity of design, accuracy of alignment of parts, accurate blade support, decent effort made with the counter balancing of the mechanism to reduce vibration, attention to detail like blowers etc, soft start, feedback speed control, soft shoe covers, rip fence or beam trammel attachment bush, motor rated for endurance and continuous use, better dust extraction capabilities (i.e. some!), balance Great, that's the sort of thing. Tables for mounting saw, router. Work Centres We are presumably not trying to cover fixed workshop tools like thicknessers, spindle cutters? Not yet - another FAQ or section perhaps.... it is also not so much of a newbie area. Doesn't have to be; the pros can hot-link straight to it. Who knows, someone with experience of these supertoys might feel like penning something. Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ The Google uk.d-i-y archive is at http://tinyurl.com/65kwq Remove NOSPAM from address to email me |
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John Rumm wrote:
wrote: I added this in response to coment on the first draft (needless to say I am not going to please everyone here) For many it would seem to be a key motivation - certainly one that will push them in to more "serious" DIY (and hence choice of tool). perhaps youre right (grudgingly The prices of budget tools in recent years have fallen dramatically. majority of tools are manufactured in the far east and then "branded" for the eventual retailer. redundant, snip Don't think it is, in the sense that recognising the two classes of tool will immediatly tell you a fair bit about what you can expect. that idea is covered below with the 3 headings, budget, midrange, topend. But its your faq, not mine. getting any after sales service and spares for these tools can be difficult or impossible. but also not important, since a new tool is generally cheaper than a repair anyway. If I buy this type of tool I'm not expecting to get it repaired any day. I will reply to this here, as several folks have mentioned it. The assumption seems to be that service and support will only ever be required should the tool break and need fixing. I think this is a too narrow view. What if I want to get a replacement rip fence for my circular saw? If it was a B&D or bosch it would be simple enough given a helpful retailer. For a shed special probably impossible. The argument that the tool is cheap enough does not seem to hold water in this case. ok. This can be said in one sentence. Normally no replacement parts or repair are available for budget tools. If you want the best and most knowledgeable advice and after sales service you will need to seek out a dedicated tool merchant. seek out uk.d-i-y, much more knowledgeable and impartial. In most cases. True, but if they are reading the FAQ chances are they have found us, or will do shortly ;-) yes, i spose my point was that they might think they need to run to a tool merchant when really speaking to us will inform/confuse them fairly thoroughly. I would pick ukdiy before a tool merchant anyway. There are cases where a average quality tool purchased from an above average retailer will offer some of the benefits and after sales care that usually only comes with much higher price tools. would you explain? Axminster would be a good example... in that they will go the extra mile for customers. I would anticipate more luck getting a replacement rip fence for one of their "white" circular saws than from B&Q for example. gotcha Assuming you have dismissed hiring a tool, that might be worth a paragraph actually, since it is often an option in peoples minds, though not one I'd often encourage. What would you want to see it cover? hmm... I guess just briefly the pros and cons of hire vs buy, and really i think it needs to be honest, hire tools are the most unreliable of all tool types. Hi + high power trade quality tool - highest incidence of duff or faulty tools and blades - if the work goes over time, you usually pay more. - 2 journeys for the tool instead of one - significant deposit usually required Buy: - Lower cost less rugged tools + much more reliable + you keep the tool for other jobs, at no further cost +/- In many cases, buying a new budget tool is cheaper than hiring, but by no means all. Check: compare prices, sometimes buying is the clear winner, sometimes hiring is. Yup, but could all be said in 2-3 lines. Sure it could... then again we are not writing a text book here. why else would they sell them? Even the stuff theyre hiring out can be like that. True, sometimes it is a case they will replace a bunch of similar tools in one go - some will be better than others. yep... I'd bet theyre replacing them for a reason though, ie too many complaints. Bear in mind if tempted, and many are, that megapacks of drill bits bundled with tools can be junk in some cases. Yup - worth adding somewhere I think other groups, and spares and after sales service should be readily available. if sometimes pricey If I want to buy new battey for a Makita drill it will be much the same cost as had I have bought it with the drill... If I want one for a "challenge extreame" it will cost the same as a new drill and what is more will come with one! heh, yup always, and much less. Its inevitable. Codless is a feature you will pay for. To make codless tools affordable, heavy compromises are made. They have to be. Codless tools are rated in volts instead of watts precisely because they are not comparable, and they dont want to tell you how big the difference is. This is getting into what I'm properly qualified in. Then you will know that it is quite easy to drain a well matched NiCd pack at 2kW for example... The trade of (on better tools) is between power and run time - you can have all the power you want if you don't mind a 5 min battery life you could, but you usually dont get it. Take a codless scerwdriver: expect a fraction of the power, far lower Not compared to a decent 18V high end tool. There is also the point to bear in mind that once it has enough torque to snap a 6" screw, more is not going to be of much practical use. otoh a 2.4v screwdriver couldnt snap a 3mm thick 1" screw. Many readers will be considering this sort of tool, because they know no better. top speed in order to reclaim some of the lost torque, often cheap plastic gears to trim the price, low duty cycle motor to trim price, and low duty cycle batteries. Exactly what I would avoid budget cordless tools. This isnt some personal pet issue, there is a big difference, and the There is also a huge difference between the worst and best of bread... yes, you seem to be thinking more of better quality kit with your comments, me more of budget to midrange, which is what I expected most faq readers to be considering. I guess this all needs explaining a bit more then. Somewhere in this, People do need to get just how limited low end codless tools are. They can be a big disappointment. mfrs try to disguise it as much as poss. You only need look at the sizes of the motor in mains vs codless drill to realise just how much difference exists. Electronics is my subject. The main thing a mains drill (for example) will give you over a top end cordless is endurance. If you want to run a wire brush for an hour and a half then mains is the way to go. That certainly is a major difference. So is power. Just look at the size of the motor. I tend to use mains drills for screwing if there are many screws involved, as theyre far faster and have far more torque. Both at the same time. You just can not get that with a little motor. With all the comments in this thread, it will be a well honed faq I think. NT |
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dont forget argos. Customer service is incompetent, but prices keen.
Like the Challenge saws for example. I can't imagine why anybody would want to do business with Argos. They want to be a bricks and mortar retailer and an internet trader and fail miserably at both. Price. Primarily for low end stuff, but also B&D and Bosch SDS for eg. NT |
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On 9 Mar 2005 17:14:39 -0800, in uk.d-i-y wrote:
hmm... I guess just briefly the pros and cons of hire vs buy, and really i think it needs to be honest, hire tools are the most unreliable of all tool types. Hi + high power trade quality tool - highest incidence of duff or faulty tools and blades Look at Which? report to find the best hire shops. Or ask here. - if the work goes over time, you usually pay more. Work always does - Fri night to Mon morning is usually at a special cheap rate. Sometimes get a good deal if you pick it up late in the day. Make sure they will give you the proper rate for time actually used if you run over time. - 2 journeys for the tool instead of one - significant deposit usually required + inventory (just look at the catalogue) + available at short notice, ring and check; pick-up + can get advice on its use if you ask (variable quality though) + you get the deposit back ;-) + *only* 2 journeys instead of multiple visits researching what to buy + they will answer the "what do i need for this job" questions. Buy: - Lower cost less rugged tools + much more reliable Be prepared (even expect?) to take it back and demand a replacement/money back. Allow time for this. + you keep the tool for other jobs, at no further cost Major advantage. Main reason I have for hiring vs buying for certain items is lack of storage space for bulky items like scaffold tower, big kango, cement mixer.... +/- In many cases, buying a new budget tool is cheaper than hiring, but by no means all. Check: compare prices, sometimes buying is the clear winner, sometimes hiring is. Phil The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ The Google uk.d-i-y archive is at http://tinyurl.com/65kwq Remove NOSPAM from address to email me |
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Phil Addison wrote:
The next draft I may do on the web anyway so as to play with some of these dears OK. (dears/ideas??) Yup got a bit click happy in the spell checker there.... (did I accidentally click on dears there? Oh well CBA to go back and look!) I was thinking of the way that Bosch for example have DIY tools that are green (and of variable quality), and a pro range which is blue and on the whole pretty good, etc. Wicks do grey bodied stuff which tends to be decent brands badged for them, while the other colours (black mostly) can be any old tat. It's just that you put the colour in brackets. I (the reader) am not sure if they just happen to be that colour, or if Bosch etc really call them their Green Pro Range, or whatever. I don't want to march up to a trade counter boldly saying "I want an xyz from their green pro range" only to be told they are yellow this year. Its a trivial point - forget it. I would guess if you went into a tool shop and asked for a blue Bosch they would know what you were on about, if you asked the same question in Homebase however they may look at you funny (since it should be obvious that they are all green!) ;-) Bosch themselves do distinguish quite clearly between the ranges, for an example see: http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...p?ccat_id=9580 http://www.bosch-pt.com/uk/en/start/...s/Overview.htm I did hint at that (i.e. cut smooth and fast and in straight line... I was kind of leaving the factoring the imprecations of that new found ability to the reader) I was looking for 'how the better performance is achieved', so that if you say it is by e.g. having a sturdy sole plate, I can make a point of checking the sturdiness of one I am buying. This is so I can pick up a tool in a shop and check if it seems to have the pro features without actually having to use it to see if it can cut straight and true. Mind you, a dealer that would lend you one to try out as well would be nice - some hopes! That is the killer test really. With the jigsaw you can perhaps see the sole plate and if it has a non scratching clip over cover etc. But all the other factors only become apparent when you use it. This doesn't seem to offer an extra "range of things you might do", just more accuracy. Oh, thought of a good one... making patterns that you will use to guide a router. Another example: I wanted a radiator shelf in my dining room that would match the general shaping of the table etc. This oval ish, but with the occasional little flourish or pointy bit. I had a nice bit of hardwood ready, and carefully marked out all the curves such that it would have a bow front, plus some corner details. At the time the only jigsaw I has was a 30 quid B&D "nothing special" one. It was just about possible to cut out the shape I had marked, but the finish left much to be desired. since I was going to be using the edge I had just cut with a bearing guided cutter on a router it was important to get the quality of the finish as high as possible since every tiny mark or undulation in the cut surface would be picked up by the router and copied into the final profile. Hence many hours of careful sanding were needed to get a surface good enough to use. Had I have had my Makita jigsaw then it would have been a very much more straight froward job: cut, quick sand, route. This may be getting too detailed, but are there specific examples of what tasks can be done ok with a cheap one and a good one. I have a cheapo jigsaw and its OK for hacking out cutouts for pipes under my sink. Using it to cut some chipboard flooring to fit round a projection produced some wavy cuts though - not that it mattered much, the skirting covered it. Wavy cuts are a good example - it is hard to do a long cut that is not with that type of tool. Part of this is that the lack of blade guide accuracy means it wanders off line and you need to keep dialling in adjustments to get back on track. With the better tool, it is that much better at going where you want it to in the first place. I guess it is a case with a jigsaw that even small errors in accuracy get multiplied quite fast by the nature of the thing. Not possessing a pro jigsaw, just how is a tool-less blade fixed in? You see the little lugs at the top of the blade: http://www.axminster.co.uk//images/p...s/T101D_xl.jpg The jaw mechanism grabs onto those and pulls them into the blade holder. The jaws are opened by giving a quarter turn to the blade guard, you pop the blade in the hole, and then release the guard which locks the blade in under spring tension. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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In article ,
Chris Bacon wrote: Deriding someone who buys an adequate £30 tool for a little bit of DIY where a £300 one is available is ridiculous. Don't think anyone has derided a genuine enquiry. Banter is a different thing. Thing is I've often bought a cheap power tool thinking it would be fine for what I need, but often end up replacing it with a good one afterwards when I realise what I'm missing. A prime example of this is a jigsaw - cheap ones are very inaccurate as opposed to only slightly inaccurate with a decent one. :-) Same with routers. Compound mitre saws. Etc. However, if you're unsure how much use a certain type of tool might be to you, an entry level priced one might help you decide without investing too much. Of course, if all you need to do is drill the occasional hole in wood, pretty well anything will do. -- *Consciousness: That annoying time between naps. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Chris Bacon wrote:
wrote: ok. This can be said in one sentence. Normally no replacement parts or repair are available for budget tools. They're cheap. They will do the job. If they blow up before their guarantee is up, get a refund or replacement. If they don't blow up, they may well be OK for a long while. **** This is uk.d-i-y, not uk.i.come.over.my.expensive.tools!**** This really does need to be born in mind. Deriding someone who buys an adequate £30 tool for a little bit of DIY where a £300 one is available is ridiculous. I hope you will find that my FAQ section does not attempt to deride any point of view, if you think it does then feel free to highlight where. Think through the implications though of "no replacement parts". It does neccisarily not mean it "broke" in a big way and needs fixing/replacing, you may just you want to replace a bit you, lost, or bent. Say you need a new backing pad for your sander because you ripped it on a nail you did not see sticking out. The tool may have cost 30 quid, but £30 for a new backing pad because buying a whole new tool is the only way to get it seems pricey to me. Say you had bought the £40 mid range offering from Bosch, or B&D, then you would be able to pick up replacement backing pads easily enough. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 08:22:23 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote: On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:50:36 GMT, "Mark" wrote: John Rumm typed: What, no comments? Can't believe you all think it is now perfect! Only the wife is Perfect, but it's a reasoned argument that's hard to fault. I guess she told you to say that..... :-) Found this in the last Argos catalogue p150, graphically shows why cheep tools can disappoint some. ;-( Scan at http://tinyurl.com/4jx2z Oh dear...... This really does show how much of marketing game all of this is for the retailers. - The plate of the saw is very obviously bent and in the most obvious place. - The user is wearing gloves - basically unsafe practice with a circular saw. - But it does have a laser and a soft grip. - .. and with names like Challenge and Xtreme it must be really good and suitable for sustained use. - I suppose that "Challenge" can be seen in a number of ways. What a crock of ****. LOL! I have the version of this saw without the laser. I've used it and thought it was fairly good and am quite pleased with it. It came with an extra finer toothed blade. The going rate for a cheap saw like the Challenge is around £25-30, though for £40 you can get an entry level Skil. The Skil only has a 40mm depth of cut, though being smaller is less unwieldy. I'd like to hear what sort of circular saw people have, what they have used it for and what it's good/not good at. cheers, Pete. |
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John Rumm wrote:
Bosch themselves do distinguish quite clearly between the ranges, for an example see: http://ukptocs.bosch-pt.com/boptocs-...p?ccat_id=9580 http://www.bosch-pt.com/uk/en/start/...s/Overview.htm perhaps a link to include at the end for the unclued, with a sentence saying what it is. I was looking for 'how the better performance is achieved', so that if you say it is by e.g. having a sturdy sole plate, I can make a point of checking the sturdiness of one I am buying. This is so I can pick up a tool in a shop and check if it seems to have the pro features without actually having to use it to see if it can cut straight and true. Mind you, a dealer that would lend you one to try out as well would be nice - some hopes! That is the killer test really. With the jigsaw you can perhaps see the sole plate and if it has a non scratching clip over cover etc. But all the other factors only become apparent when you use it. maybe you can describe 2 typical sole plates, 1 pressed steel 2mm thick, one cast ali x mm thick. Without this, newbies buying really havent got any clue how to interpret what constitutes a sufficiently solid sole plate and what doesnt. NT |
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#38
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wrote:
maybe you can describe 2 typical sole plates, 1 pressed steel 2mm thick, one cast ali x mm thick. Without this, newbies buying really havent got any clue how to interpret what constitutes a sufficiently solid sole plate and what doesnt. Being on the web and all, we could even include a photo! (or is that going against the spirit of the FAQ?) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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Chris Bacon wrote:
wrote: ok. This can be said in one sentence. Normally no replacement parts or repair are available for budget tools. They're cheap. They will do the job. If they blow up before their guarantee is up, get a refund or replacement. If they don't blow up, they may well be OK for a long while. **** This is uk.d-i-y, not uk.i.come.over.my.expensive.tools!**** This really does need to be born in mind. Deriding someone who buys an adequate =A330 tool for a little bit of DIY where a =A3300 one is available is ridiculous. did someone do that? NT |
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