On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 10:47:42 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

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On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 14:04:22 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

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On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 14:07:54 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH senile troll****

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On 16/01/2021 19:27, Rod Speed wrote:
....
If he were not going to expect that, he should not have left so little
time between getting a deal and ending the transition period.

He left a full year..

The time between getting the deal and ending the transition period was a
matter of a few days. Business should have been given several months to
prepare for the ending of the transition period, even if that meant
extending it as part of the deal.

--
Colin Bignell

On 17/01/2021 10:58, nightjar wrote:
On 16/01/2021 19:27, Rod Speed wrote:
...
If he were not going to expect that, he should not have left so
little time between getting a deal and ending the transition period.

He left a full year..

The time between getting the deal and ending the transition period was a
matter of a few days. Business should have been given several months to
prepare for the ending of the transition period, even if that meant
extending it as part of the deal.


But extending the transition period would also have kicked down the road
the deadline for negotiations on a deal.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 15/01/2021 15:49, fred wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 2:47:35 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scion wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 14:09:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which voted
Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to start
moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

Is the moaning just as loud from those fishermen who sold their quotas to
foreign firms?
Just read a minister saying the answer was for us to eat more fishery
products. Now I know what they really meant by getting back control.
Telling us what we have to eat.

--
*I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter
Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


The whole fishing row was dreamt up as a red herring. Fishing makes no major financial contribution to the country. Apparently a major portion of fishing caught by British boats goes to France. Storm in a tea cup. Did an excellent job of diverting attention to the whole debacle



They may not make a major contribution, but to the fishermen whose jobs
have been lost or will be lost it matters a great deal.

On 17/01/2021 11:49, Robin wrote:
On 17/01/2021 10:58, nightjar wrote:
On 16/01/2021 19:27, Rod Speed wrote:
...
If he were not going to expect that, he should not have left so
little time between getting a deal and ending the transition period.

He left a full year..

The time between getting the deal and ending the transition period was
a matter of a few days. Business should have been given several months
to prepare for the ending of the transition period, even if that meant
extending it as part of the deal.


But extending the transition period would also have kicked down the road
the deadline for negotiations on a deal.


I don't think that would have been a bad thing. The deal has obviously
been rushed. However, what I said was that it could have been part of
the deal. That would have not extended the deadline for getting a deal
made, but would have given business time to get ready for the new
regulations.

--
Colin Bignell

In article ,
Chris Green wrote:
Fredxx wrote:

Of course some poor sod in a shop forced to work Xmas eve doesn't matter.

That is their choice. I would say if you really don't want to work
Christmas Eve you really ought to have chosen an alternative career.
There is always a choice.

It's only in the last few decades that Christmas Eve has been such a
'not working day'. When I was young Christmas Eve was just a normal
working day, if you were lucky, the boss told you to go home a couple
of hours early.

Err, Xmas day was a normal working day for most when I were a kid in
Scotland. Well remember going to the toy department in a large store to
spend my Xmas money.
New Year's day was the holiday. But not in England.

--
*What happens when none of your bees wax? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Is that the Fisheries Minister who was too busy to read the Brexit
Deal because she was organising a nativity trail?

She seems to have a balanced work - life ethic. If I was PM I
wouldn't expect her read the document on Christmas Eve either, nor
would I expect a Civil Servant to brief her on the same day.

Perhaps you'd like that extended to every single worker in the country
(where possible)? No? Just why would that be?

Of course some poor sod in a shop forced to work Xmas eve doesn't
matter.

That is their choice. I would say if you really don't want to work
Christmas Eve you really ought to have chosen an alternative career.
There is always a choice.

Let me see now. Someone who's job it is to run the country is entitled to
the normal public holidays regardless?

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 16/01/2021 11:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
All the whingeing I see here is from Remainers. Oh, and Brexiters
whingeing about Remainers whingeing about their perceived loss.


Err, this thread is about Brexiteers whinging about a real loss to them.

But carry on as you started. Head in the sand. All of Farage's predictions
are true.

BTW, hope all those in industry who voted Brexit are delighted the EU
employment laws are to be rescinded. About time they did what they were
told and work any hours their boss wants. Breaks are for wimps.

Sounds good to me, I have no workers' rights. I doubt you do either
albeit for different reasons.

The most booming economy is where you can hire labour without subsequent
costs of shrinking your workforce if conditions demand/change.

Yup. Let's turn the UK into a sweatshop. For the sake of the economy. If
only this was made plain at the time of the referendum. There then would
have been far fewer turkeys voting for Xmas.

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

nightjar wrote
Rod Speed wrote

If he were not going to expect that, he should not have left so little
time between getting a deal and ending the transition period.

He left a full year..

The time between getting the deal and ending
the transition period was a matter of a few days.

Only because that arsehole Barnier chose to do it like that.

Business should have been given several months
to prepare for the ending of the transition period,
even if that meant extending it as part of the deal.

If that had been done, that arsehole Barnier would
have kept the entire charade going for years more.

"nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 17/01/2021 11:49, Robin wrote:
On 17/01/2021 10:58, nightjar wrote:
On 16/01/2021 19:27, Rod Speed wrote:
...
If he were not going to expect that, he should not have left so little
time between getting a deal and ending the transition period.

He left a full year..

The time between getting the deal and ending the transition period was a
matter of a few days. Business should have been given several months to
prepare for the ending of the transition period, even if that meant
extending it as part of the deal.


But extending the transition period would also have kicked down the road
the deadline for negotiations on a deal.

I don't think that would have been a bad thing.

Because you are a remoaner and dont care if the
UK never leaves and dont give a damn about what
the majority of those who bothered to vote said
they wanted. You know better than them, just like
all those unelected bureaucrats you love so much.

The deal has obviously been rushed.

There was no alternative with Barnier being an arsehole.

However, what I said was that it could have been part of the deal. That
would have not extended the deadline for getting a deal made,

Thats what was claimed with the deal done
a year ago, and it didnt work out like that,
Barnier played arsehole, again.

but would have given business time to get ready for the new regulations.

Wrong.

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 06:14:55 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 05:22:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll**** unread

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 14:09:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which voted
Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to start
moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

And now they are driving trucks round Westminster in 'protest' for
getting what they voted for (including not getting the Unicorns yet)?

I saw a TV item ages ago (~2 years) where some lady who ran a
shellfish business selling live catch into the EU ('we' didn't want to
pay the high prices and bought ours from the EU???), who actually told
the interviewer that she would have to jump though a load more hoops
post us leaving the EU (extra (vet?) checks of the stock pre dispatch)
and loads more forms (each 'batch' needing it's own paperwork) but was
still very much for us leaving the EU. She had even bought and
converted her own vehicle in an effort to overcome any 'hurdles'.

I wonder if she's still in business (or she may not as she can't get
any workers as they generally come from the EU and are paid less than
the wage threshold).

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 11:07:19 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 14:09:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which voted
Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to start
moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

And now they are driving trucks round Westminster in 'protest' for
getting what they voted for (including not getting the Unicorns yet)?

I saw a TV item ages ago (~2 years) where some lady who ran a shellfish
business selling live catch into the EU ('we' didn't want to pay the
high prices and bought ours from the EU???), who actually told the
interviewer that she would have to jump though a load more hoops post us
leaving the EU (extra (vet?) checks of the stock pre dispatch)
and loads more forms (each 'batch' needing it's own paperwork) but was
still very much for us leaving the EU. She had even bought and converted
her own vehicle in an effort to overcome any 'hurdles'.

I wonder if she's still in business (or she may not as she can't get any
workers as they generally come from the EU and are paid less than the
wage threshold).

Cheers, T i m

They could sell it to us at a reduced price, europeans keep the cost high.

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 12:16:50 +0000, critcher
wrote:

snip

They may not make a major contribution, but to the fishermen whose jobs
have been lost or will be lost it matters a great deal.

Of course, just has every person / family who has lost their jobs
because of competition, progress or a change of the rules.

This has been happening since the beginning of time and any 'smart'
people re-train or diversify when they see the writing on the wall.

And the UK fishermen, (not making a significant input to the UK GPD)
didn't seem to care about all the other UK workers in more 'relevant
industries that could lose their jobs when voting for us all to leave
the EU?

So if you vote for an unknown and especially where that decision is
made by a tiny minority (suggesting it was far from wanted by 'most
people') and based on dubious 'facts', you really get what's coming to
you. Ironically, it means we all suffer.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 12:16:50 +0000, critcher
wrote:

snip

They may not make a major contribution, but to the fishermen whose jobs
have been lost or will be lost it matters a great deal.

Of course, just has every person / family who has lost their jobs
because of competition, progress or a change of the rules.

This has been happening since the beginning of time and any 'smart'
people re-train or diversify when they see the writing on the wall.

And the UK fishermen, (not making a significant input to the UK GPD)
didn't seem to care about all the other UK workers in more 'relevant
industries that could lose their jobs when voting for us all to leave
the EU?

So if you vote for an unknown and especially where that decision is
made by a tiny minority (suggesting it was far from wanted by 'most
people') and based on dubious 'facts', you really get what's coming to
you. Ironically, it means we all suffer.

As I understand it, Michael Goves (adoptive) father ran a fish processing
business in Aberdeen which closed as a result of the Common Fisheries
Policy. This is why Gove is so anti-EU.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 17/01/2021 17:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 16/01/2021 11:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
All the whingeing I see here is from Remainers. Oh, and Brexiters
whingeing about Remainers whingeing about their perceived loss.


Err, this thread is about Brexiteers whinging about a real loss to them.

But carry on as you started. Head in the sand. All of Farage's predictions
are true.

BTW, hope all those in industry who voted Brexit are delighted the EU
employment laws are to be rescinded. About time they did what they were
told and work any hours their boss wants. Breaks are for wimps.

Sounds good to me, I have no workers' rights. I doubt you do either
albeit for different reasons.

The most booming economy is where you can hire labour without subsequent
costs of shrinking your workforce if conditions demand/change.

Yup. Let's turn the UK into a sweatshop. For the sake of the economy. If
only this was made plain at the time of the referendum. There then would
have been far fewer turkeys voting for Xmas.

It became sweatshop UK when in the EU. You've been sheltered from the
labour market from being retired. The first thing that happened after
the vote was wages went up.

If it wasn't for Covid with the exodus of Eastern European immigrant
workers and lack of workers as claimed by remainers, farm labourers etc,
wages could only go up.

In article ,
charles wrote:
As I understand it, Michael Goves (adoptive) father ran a fish processing
business in Aberdeen which closed as a result of the Common Fisheries
Policy. This is why Gove is so anti-EU.

Oil took over Aberdeen harbour. Fishing moved up the coast a bit to places
like Peterhead. Same applied to all the premises round about the harbour.
Oil companies paid more to use them than fishing earned.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Yup. Let's turn the UK into a sweatshop. For the sake of the economy.
If only this was made plain at the time of the referendum. There then
would have been far fewer turkeys voting for Xmas.

It became sweatshop UK when in the EU. You've been sheltered from the
labour market from being retired.

Err, we were in the EU for much of my working life.

The first thing that happened after
the vote was wages went up.

Tell that to my colleagues still working. They will be most surprised.
And how any market reacts to the result of a vote short term is neither
here nor there.

If it wasn't for Covid with the exodus of Eastern European immigrant
workers and lack of workers as claimed by remainers, farm labourers etc,
wages could only go up.

And I'm sure you believed that nice Mr Trump too.

--
*Reality is the illusion that occurs due to the lack of alcohol *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/01/2021 13:42, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Yup. Let's turn the UK into a sweatshop. For the sake of the economy.
If only this was made plain at the time of the referendum. There then
would have been far fewer turkeys voting for Xmas.

It became sweatshop UK when in the EU. You've been sheltered from the
labour market from being retired.

Err, we were in the EU for much of my working life.

The first thing that happened after
the vote was wages went up.

Tell that to my colleagues still working. They will be most surprised.
And how any market reacts to the result of a vote short term is neither
here nor there.

How many Eastern Europeans are in your line of work?

I suspect the main source of pay increase was from the drop in £; where
UK was no longer competitive in hiring East European who would go to
other EU countries.

If it wasn't for Covid with the exodus of Eastern European immigrant
workers and lack of workers as claimed by remainers, farm labourers etc,
wages could only go up.

And I'm sure you believed that nice Mr Trump too.

You are so wrong. What is it with remainers they think they know what I
believe?

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021 13:36:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
charles wrote:
As I understand it, Michael Goves (adoptive) father ran a fish processing
business in Aberdeen which closed as a result of the Common Fisheries
Policy. This is why Gove is so anti-EU.

Oil took over Aberdeen harbour. Fishing moved up the coast a bit to places
like Peterhead. Same applied to all the premises round about the harbour.
Oil companies paid more to use them than fishing earned.

And that's the point. Everything has a value / price (especially these
days) and it's quite possible these fisherman could earn a living ...
maybe even a better / more predictable living than the one they are
doing that often damages the seabed, damages the viability of many
species and causes the greatest levels of animal death (inc 'by
catch') of any of those 'animal exploitation' industries.

I wonder how much (more) diesel and lost earnings it takes to land
your catch in Denmark rather than your (UK) home port?

What people will do to be able to sell their product to the EU eh.

Makes you wonder if there was a way we could deal with the EU that
could have been easier, fewer delays and less paperwork etc ... ? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 18/01/2021 13:42, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Yup. Let's turn the UK into a sweatshop. For the sake of the economy.
If only this was made plain at the time of the referendum. There then
would have been far fewer turkeys voting for Xmas.

It became sweatshop UK when in the EU. You've been sheltered from the
labour market from being retired.

Err, we were in the EU for much of my working life.

The first thing that happened after
the vote was wages went up.

Tell that to my colleagues still working. They will be most surprised.
And how any market reacts to the result of a vote short term is neither
here nor there.

How many Eastern Europeans are in your line of work?

My line of work is common to just about every country in the world.

I suspect the main source of pay increase was from the drop in £; where
UK was no longer competitive in hiring East European who would go to
other EU countries.

And were all the jobs those East Europeans did previously now filled by
the UK born unemployed? If not we appear to have shot ourselves in the
foot.

If it wasn't for Covid with the exodus of Eastern European immigrant
workers and lack of workers as claimed by remainers, farm labourers
etc, wages could only go up.

Meaning we now have a surfeit of farm etc labourers? Or is your wish to
shrink the size of such things to push wages up? Supply and demand?

And I'm sure you believed that nice Mr Trump too.

You are so wrong. What is it with remainers they think they know what I
believe?

Well, you seem to be saying much the same as Trump said at his election.

--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which voted
Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to start
moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

I don't understand how we got to where we have on this

it ought to have been clear to a 3 year old that on leaving they would have
more forms to fill in

why they aren't better prepared for that, makes no sense at all

Unless there's something else going on here

"nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 16/01/2021 01:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/01/2021 17:09, nightjar wrote:
On 15/01/2021 14:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scion wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 14:09:24 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which
voted
Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to start
moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

Is the moaning just as loud from those fishermen who sold their quotas
to
foreign firms?

Just read a minister saying the answer was for us to eat more fishery
products. Now I know what they really meant by getting back control.
Telling us what we have to eat.


Is that the Fisheries Minister who was too busy to read the Brexit Deal
because she was organising a nativity trail?

She seems to have a balanced work - life ethic. If I was PM I wouldn't
expect her read the document on Christmas Eve either, nor would I expect
a Civil Servant to brief her on the same day.

If he were not going to expect that, he should not have left so little
time between getting a deal and ending the transition period.

the deal would have been done three days before the end of transition
whatever the date was

It's how the EU work to extract the most concessions from the other side

I agree than ending transition on Dec 31st was a bit daft

In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which voted
Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to start
moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

I don't understand how we got to where we have on this

it ought to have been clear to a 3 year old that on leaving they would have
more forms to fill in

why they aren't better prepared for that, makes no sense at all

Unless there's something else going on here

Not so much the form filling, but the time taken to get the fresh produce
to the destination in the EU. It's called taking back control of our
borders. And the EU doing the same. You cannot have control of a border
without checking everything that goes through it.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
If he were not going to expect that, he should not have left so little
time between getting a deal and ending the transition period.

the deal would have been done three days before the end of transition
whatever the date was

It's how the EU work to extract the most concessions from the other side

Surely it was the UK working to extract concessions from the EU? Since we
already had an agreement with the EU, and it was the UK who broke that.

I agree than ending transition on Dec 31st was a bit daft

Even more so when the agreement was essentially the same as May negotiated
months ago. Had that been agreed it would have left a reasonable time to
sort out the nuts and bolts.

--
*Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which voted
Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to start
moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

I don't understand how we got to where we have on this

it ought to have been clear to a 3 year old that on leaving they would
have
more forms to fill in

why they aren't better prepared for that, makes no sense at all

Unless there's something else going on here

Not so much the form filling, but the time taken to get the fresh produce
to the destination in the EU.

that hasn't changed

It is not the problem here

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
If he were not going to expect that, he should not have left so little
time between getting a deal and ending the transition period.

the deal would have been done three days before the end of transition
whatever the date was

It's how the EU work to extract the most concessions from the other side

Surely it was the UK working to extract concessions from the EU? Since we
already had an agreement with the EU, and it was the UK who broke that.

I agree than ending transition on Dec 31st was a bit daft

Even more so when the agreement was essentially the same as May negotiated
months ago.

It had one very important difference, which I feel sure I have discussed
with you before

Had that been agreed it would have left a reasonable time to
sort out the nuts and bolts.

As per my PP, the amount of time allowed for discussion is irrelevant here

The agreement would always have been settled on 3 days notice

It is only the actual choice of end date that could have been more sensible

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Not so much the form filling, but the time taken to get the fresh produce
to the destination in the EU.

that hasn't changed

Really? Meaning we don't have control of our borders and neither does
France etc? Everything just sails through?

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , tim...
writes


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which voted
Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to start
moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

I don't understand how we got to where we have on this

it ought to have been clear to a 3 year old that on leaving they would
have more forms to fill in

In which case, they seem to have allowed lots of pro-Brexit under-threes
to vote in the referendum.

Didn't several pro-Brexit MPs assure us that leaving the EU would allow
us to 'make a bonfire of red tape' (or something similar)?

why they aren't better prepared for that, makes no sense at all

Unless there's something else going on here

Indeed there is. Loads of Brexit supporters are finally waking up to the
fact that they have been well and truly duped (although few are yet
prepared to admit it).
--
Ian

On Mon, 01 Feb 2021 14:02:40 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , tim...
writes


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
If anyone had told me all those years ago that the industry which
voted Brexit perhaps more than any other would be one of the first to
start moaning when it was 'done' I'm not sure I'd have believed it.

I don't understand how we got to where we have on this

it ought to have been clear to a 3 year old that on leaving they would
have more forms to fill in

In which case, they seem to have allowed lots of pro-Brexit under-threes
to vote in the referendum.

Didn't several pro-Brexit MPs assure us that leaving the EU would allow
us to 'make a bonfire of red tape' (or something similar)?

why they aren't better prepared for that, makes no sense at all

Unless there's something else going on here

Indeed there is. Loads of Brexit supporters are finally waking up to the
fact that they have been well and truly duped (although few are yet
prepared to admit it).


In what way, we don't have to trade with gauls.

On 01/02/2021 14:02, Ian Jackson wrote:
Didn't several pro-Brexit MPs assure us that leaving the EU would allow
us to 'make a bonfire of red tape' (or something similar)?
Its already happening, but oddly enough the remoaning media is not
reporting on it - unless it can be spun into 'removing wurkahs rights' etc.

The war continues.



--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 01/02/2021 14:02, Ian Jackson wrote:
Indeed there is. Loads of Brexit supporters are finally waking up to the
fact that they have been well and truly duped (although few are yet
prepared to admit it).
--
You couldn't make it up. Well in fact you did. The reverse is true.
Europhiles are finally seeing the reality of what they wanted to stay a
part of, writ large in terms of utter incompetence, total disregard for
international law, and total lack of compassion for the people who they
allegedly represent, but who never elected them, and selection of
European pharma (even when it doesn't work) to throw someone else's
money at.

Makes Stalin's Russia look like a picnic.




--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan