It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN
Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 21:26:35 +0000, wrote:

It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN
Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

If you hold off giving the toys to the kids till the new year, we will
really be out of the EU and the toys could be as dangerous as you
like. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN

Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

Why not just use common sense?

Bill

williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN

Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

Why not just use common sense?

Because its surprisingly uncommon. ;-)

I mean, just as an example, whoever though that a babys cot with bars far
enough apart for a babys body to fit through (but not its head) was a good
idea?

With the benefit of hindsight some faults are obvious but seemed to elude
everyone until a problem occurred.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 03/11/2020 07:22, Tim+ wrote:
williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN

Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

Why not just use common sense?

Because its surprisingly uncommon. ;-)

I mean, just as an example, whoever though that a babys cot with bars far
enough apart for a babys body to fit through (but not its head) was a good
idea?

With the benefit of hindsight some faults are obvious but seemed to elude
everyone until a problem occurred.

Indeed. Car windows that wind up by standing on a child sized lever,
with the ignition off.

Wind Turbines as a source of electricity.

Marxism as a viable political theory.

The world is full of stupidity. Darwin of course says that it doesn't
matter how miserable impoverished or enslaved you are, provided
you manage to produce offspring...



--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On 03/11/2020 07:22, Tim+ wrote:
williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN

Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

Why not just use common sense?

Because its surprisingly uncommon. ;-)

I mean, just as an example, whoever though that a babys cot with bars far
enough apart for a babys body to fit through (but not its head) was a good
idea?

With the benefit of hindsight some faults are obvious but seemed to elude
everyone until a problem occurred.

Tim

licking lead paint was my fav in the 50's........

On 02/11/2020 22:19, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 21:26:35 +0000, wrote:

It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN
Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

If you hold off giving the toys to the kids till the new year, we will
really be out of the EU and the toys could be as dangerous as you
like. ;-)

The testing and certification of your DIY toys would take years anyway!


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 02:34:09 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN

Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

Why not just use common sense?

Because I'm not sure it's always the case, especially when being
tested in the courts.

You design and make a wooden log carrying toy truck / trailer for your
sensible and careful young niece / nephew and use 1/8" diameter dowels
to support the logs on the trailer as they are 1) reasonably in scale
for that job and 2) more than adequate to do the job.

The niece / nephew takes it to the playgroup and some other kid trips,
falls on it and takes their eye out on said upright.

You now find yourself in court and having to justify your competency
to design and make such a dangerous toy and what safety standard you
followed during it's design?

The Mrs used to work in a large educational suppliers (producing the
yearly catalogue that used to fill two artic trailers) and they sold
cheap plastic storage boxes and very (comparatively) expensive plastic
storage boxes.

Both were fine for storing all sorts of things but only one was tested
not to split and trap a child's foot when they turned it upside down
and used it as a step.

Cheers, T i m

I don't actually think that is true as we are adopting a lot of the
standards, we just want to pick the ones we don't want!

Whatever the safety standards you cannot protect children against doing
stupid stuff like sticking lego bricks up their noses etc.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 21:26:35 +0000, wrote:

It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN
Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

If you hold off giving the toys to the kids till the new year, we will
really be out of the EU and the toys could be as dangerous as you
like. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 03/11/2020 02:34, williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but,
in this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN

Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

Why not just use common sense?

Bill
It's the unkown unknowns that matter. Also, why re-invent wheels?

On 03/11/2020 11:57, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
I don't actually think that is true as we are adopting a lot of the
standards, we just want to pick the ones we don't want!

Whatever the safety standards you cannot protect children against doing
stupid stuff like sticking lego bricks up their noses etc.
Brian

actually, that's the sort of thing that the EN does prevent for those
toys aimed at the sub-36 months kids

On 03/11/2020 08:54, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 03/11/2020 07:22, Tim+ wrote:
williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:

It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN


Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

Why not just use common sense?

Because its surprisingly uncommon. ;-)

I mean, just as an example, whoever though that a babys cot with bars
far
enough apart for a babys body to fit through (but not its head) was a
good
idea?

With the benefit of hindsight some faults are obvious but seemed to elude
everyone until a problem occurred.

Tim

licking lead paint was my fav in the 50's........

Yummy!

--
Max Demian

On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 12:34:44 +0000, wrote:

On 03/11/2020 02:34, williamwright wrote:
snip

Why not just use common sense?

It's the unkown unknowns that matter.

Quite.

Also, why re-invent wheels?

Again, quite, and if 'goD forbid' a child get injured by something you
have made, even if it wasn't from anything obvious to be a potential
danger / risk, at least you can demonstrate you have made 'best
efforts' and at the same time acknowledge an awareness of any rules
and have tried to follow them (that still might not help you being
sued etc).

One of the things I have to be careful of is assuming anyone else has
the same skills / experience (FWIW etc) as me when suggesting they do
something themselves, just because I may happen to find it easy?

Like getting daughter and her ex, both reasonable / practical people
(both have chainsaw tickets and familiar with all sorts of dangerous
plant) to replace the front wishbone on their car when it failed an
MOT on it. TBF, they did get the replacement wishbone, had access to
all the tools, the HBOL and started on the job but it was soon obvious
they didn't have the confidence and it was quite a safety critical
component ... and had they got the old one off but broken something on
the car in so doing that they couldn't resolve themselves, the cost
*then* would have been even greater than getting the garage to do it
in the first place.

The chances are I would know what sort of torque / effort was needed /
acceptable on each part and therefore know that I need to apply more
penetrating oil and give it more time, or heat or that it has to be
cut off to give access to the other side etc.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I recently talked a young and not-really-technical family friend
though installing W10 on what was previously her D: drive the other
day. What took most of the time was guiding her though things like
getting the side off the PC and finding the SATA cables (to isolate
each of the drives in turn to be sure we were dealing with the right
one), accessing the BIOS boot menu (not the Linux / Windows one) and
getting the PC to boot from the USB boot drive I'd made on her laptop
(remotely) previously.

On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:

It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids

Not me.




--
Adam

On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN

Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

When I were a lad, toys were more Darwinistic.

--
Colin Bignell

In message , nightjar
writes
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making
toys for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because
there's been no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed
safety spec guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is
freely available he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but,
in this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the
"toys Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy
going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...ELEX:32009L004
8&from=EN Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

When I were a lad, toys were more Darwinistic.

We had catapults and bows and arrows before progressing to air rifles
and then shotguns/rifles. Somewhere I still have my sisters smooth bore
Webly air pistol!


--
Tim Lamb

On 3 Nov 2020 at 22:05:10 GMT, "Tim Lamb"
wrote:

In message , nightjar
writes
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making
toys for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because
there's been no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed
safety spec guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is
freely available he
https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but,
in this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the
"toys Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy
going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...ELEX:32009L004
8&from=EN Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

When I were a lad, toys were more Darwinistic.

We had catapults and bows and arrows before progressing to air rifles
and then shotguns/rifles. Somewhere I still have my sisters smooth bore
Webly air pistol!


And real chemistry sets. And chlorate and sugar from Woolworths and
grocers.

--
Roger Hayter

On 03/11/2020 07:22, Tim+ wrote:

Why not just use common sense?

Because its surprisingly uncommon. ;-)

I have it. Don't you? It doesn't matter about anyone else. If the dim
witted allow their children to perish it is good for the race.

Bill

On 03/11/2020 07:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The world is full of stupidity. Darwin of course says that it doesn't
matter how miserable impoverished or enslaved you are, provided
you manage to produce offspring...

I always think shagging in a bed where she hasn't had the brains to
change the sheets is a dreadful thought. And can you imagine if she
says, "Go down on me"? Argh! Then going to the bog for a post-coital
**** and finding it all stinky because she hasn't cleaned it that day! I
hate the idea of a mucky woman. Ugh!

Bill

On 03/11/2020 08:54, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

licking lead paint was my fav in the 50's........

Yes and me. It explains a lot doesn't it?

Bill

On 03/11/2020 13:08, Max Demian wrote:

licking lead paint was my fav in the 50's........

Yummy!


When the roadmen came along with their horse-drawn tar boiler our mams
used to hold us over it because the fumes were supposed to strengthen
our lungs. And when the roadmen had gone we used to pick up bits of
solidified tar and chew them.

Bill

On 03/11/2020 10:25, T i m wrote:
Why not just use common sense?

Because I'm not sure it's always the case, especially when being
tested in the courts.


This is DIY, not manufacturing. Who can say who made a particular item?

Bill

On 03/11/2020 12:34, wrote:

Why not just use common sense?

Bill
It's the unkown unknowns that matter. Also, why re-invent wheels?

I think we've become so used to a regimented life with everything
decided by higher powers that we've lost any sense of reality and
individual responsibility. You can't bake cakes and sell them at the
church fayre in case you poison half the village. You can't rent bikes
to kids at the fayre in case they fall off. You can't let kids pet farm
animals in case they get dreaded lurgi. Bloody ridiculous.

Bill

On 03/11/2020 19:20, ARW wrote:
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:

It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids

Not me.


No, because you don't know who your children are, never mind your
grandchildren.

Bill

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 00:34:22 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 03/11/2020 10:25, T i m wrote:
Why not just use common sense?

Because I'm not sure it's always the case, especially when being
tested in the courts.


This is DIY, not manufacturing. Who can say who made a particular item?

The owner, when pushed to it in court.

Daughter had a TY80 mini trials bike when she was about 10 and it was
very difficult to find places for her to ride it, not because people /
land owners were worried about what damage she might do to the land
(it was a trials bike, not a motocrosser so more about ups and downs
than speed and jumps) but us suing them if she got caught up in some
barbed wire or hit a obscured tree stump ... even if we offered to
sign a disclaimer sating we would take full responsibility (and I'm
not sure you can do that in any case).

There are loads of jobs I've not taken on, simply because I didn't
want to be put in the position of responsibility for doing something
that could end up being dangerous for others, even if the person I was
doing it for was ok themselves.

You fix their TV but with the proviso the wall mount fixings are now
unreliable (but it isn't an issue because they are using the stand).
Then they give the TV to their friend and the TV falls off the wall
and kills their kid. Do you think the person you fixed the TV for
would take responsibility, if it was looked into and found to have
been 'tampered with'?

Cheers, T i m

On 04/11/2020 00:33, williamwright wrote:
On 03/11/2020 13:08, Max Demian wrote:

licking lead paint was my fav in the 50's........

Yummy!


When the roadmen came along with their horse-drawn tar boiler our mams
used to hold us over it because the fumes were supposed to strengthen
our lungs. And when the roadmen had gone we used to pick up bits of
solidified tar and chew them.

Bill
I still smell any tarry biolers I pass .......

On 04/11/2020 00:31, williamwright wrote:
On 03/11/2020 08:54, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

licking lead paint was my fav in the 50's........

Yes and me. It explains a lot doesn't it?

Bill
yes licking lead dulls the brain indeed but not as badly as the
century's layers of paint that used to fall off buildings in Edinburgh
and clbber you .....

On 03/11/2020 07:22, Tim+ wrote:
williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making toys
for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because there's been
no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed safety spec
guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is freely available
he https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but, in
this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the "toys
Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...9L0048&from=EN

Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

Why not just use common sense?

Because its surprisingly uncommon. ;-)

I mean, just as an example, whoever though that a babys cot with bars far
enough apart for a babys body to fit through (but not its head) was a good
idea?

With the benefit of hindsight some faults are obvious but seemed to elude
everyone until a problem occurred.

Tim

that is where the 100mm sphere was used in the building regs to stop
this happening......

On 04/11/2020 00:30, williamwright wrote:
On 03/11/2020 07:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The world is full of stupidity. Darwin of course says that it doesn't
matter how miserable impoverished or enslaved you are, provided
you manage to produce offspring...

I always think shagging in a bed where she hasn't had the brains to
change the sheets is a dreadful thought. And can you imagine if she
says, "Go down on me"? Argh! Then going to the bog for a post-coital
**** and finding it all stinky because she hasn't cleaned it that day! I
hate the idea of a mucky woman. Ugh!

Bill
OMG where is the mind bleech but seeing a vision of paul scofield
sucking a cock every time the poofter is on TV is bad enough....

On 03/11/2020 22:05, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , nightjar
writes
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making
toysÂ* for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because
there's beenÂ* no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed
safety specÂ* guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is
freely availableÂ* he
https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but,
inÂ* this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the
"toysÂ* Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly
easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...ELEX:32009L004
8&from=ENÂ*Â* Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

When I were a lad, toys were more Darwinistic.

We had catapults and bows and arrows before progressing to air rifles
and then shotguns/rifles. Somewhere I still have my sisters smooth bore
Webly air pistol!


I had a crossbow because of willian tell on the telly in the 50's

On 03/11/2020 23:40, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 3 Nov 2020 at 22:05:10 GMT, "Tim Lamb"
wrote:

In message , nightjar
writes
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making
toys for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because
there's been no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed
safety spec guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is
freely available he
https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but,
in this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the
"toys Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly easy
going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...ELEX:32009L004
8&from=EN Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

When I were a lad, toys were more Darwinistic.

We had catapults and bows and arrows before progressing to air rifles
and then shotguns/rifles. Somewhere I still have my sisters smooth bore
Webly air pistol!


And real chemistry sets. And chlorate and sugar from Woolworths and
grocers.

was that the Pontypandy branch ?

that was a great thread....quality

On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 08:08:56 +0000, jim.gm4dhj wrote:

I had a crossbow because of willian tell on the telly in the 50's

Some one made, in the mid '70's, with permission of parents and
school, a full sized practical crossbow in wood work/metal work at
secondary school. When it was ready for a test firing we all went out
onto the playing field to watch. The bolt went beyond a hedge a
several hundred yards away...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 04/11/2020 00:41, williamwright wrote:
On 03/11/2020 12:34, wrote:

Why not just use common sense?

Bill
It's the unkown unknowns that matter. Also, why re-invent wheels?

I think we've become so used to a regimented life with everything
decided by higher powers that we've lost any sense of reality and
individual responsibility. You can't bake cakes and sell them at the
church fayre in case you poison half the village. You can't rent bikes
to kids at the fayre in case they fall off. You can't let kids pet farm
animals in case they get dreaded lurgi. Bloody ridiculous.

Bill
I agree with most of that but don't see how it's relevant to this
discussion. The safety specs are written by a bunch of experts (!) and
based on things that have caused problems in the past, as well as those
that fall into the "bleedin' obvious" category. Like most of us here I
think I'm unusually gifted in the common sense department (not to
mention other departments ;-) ) but I know there are things I don't
know, and that's where a document like the EN is useful.
If you think you know everything then I guess you don't need reference
documents and you're either a very lucky chap or very foolish.

On 04/11/2020 09:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 08:08:56 +0000, jim.gm4dhj wrote:

I had a crossbow because of willian tell on the telly in the 50's

Some one made, in the mid '70's, with permission of parents and
school, a full sized practical crossbow in wood work/metal work at
secondary school. When it was ready for a test firing we all went out
onto the playing field to watch. The bolt went beyond a hedge a
several hundred yards away...

My friend made a ball bearing cannon - steel tube on a block with a
banger contents inside it. A quite snug fitting ball bearing was tamped
on top and some Jetex fuse was inserted into a breech hole. We aimed it
at the cast metal sign on the side of a tennis court, that ended up with
a neat 1/4" hole in it. It was never fired again...


--
€œThe ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.€�

Herbert Spencer

On 03/11/2020 22:05, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , nightjar
writes
On 02/11/2020 21:26, wrote:
It's the time of year when many of us start thinking about making
toysÂ* for kids and grandkids (and then panic in 4 weeks because
there's beenÂ* no progress!) so I was just looking around for detailed
safety specÂ* guidance and was surprised that a copy of EN71.1 is
freely availableÂ* he
https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html
If you're not familiar with ENs they can be slightly hard going but,
inÂ* this case, the general principles are given in Annex 2 of the
"toysÂ* Directive". The Directive is tough but the annex is fairly
easy going:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...ELEX:32009L004
8&from=ENÂ*Â* Hope that's some use to someone other than me.

When I were a lad, toys were more Darwinistic.

We had catapults and bows and arrows before progressing to air rifles
and then shotguns/rifles. Somewhere I still have my sisters smooth bore
Webly air pistol!

I was thinking about sharp edged tinplate toys. :-)

--
Colin Bignell

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 04/11/2020 09:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 08:08:56 +0000, jim.gm4dhj wrote:

I had a crossbow because of willian tell on the telly in the 50's
Some one made, in the mid '70's, with permission of parents and
school, a full sized practical crossbow in wood work/metal work at
secondary school. When it was ready for a test firing we all went out
onto the playing field to watch. The bolt went beyond a hedge a
several hundred yards away...

My friend made a ball bearing cannon - steel tube on a block with a
banger contents inside it. A quite snug fitting ball bearing was tamped
on top and some Jetex fuse was inserted into a breech hole. We aimed it
at the cast metal sign on the side of a tennis court, that ended up
with a neat 1/4" hole in it. It was never fired again...

Starting pistol blank cartridges were readily available when I was 15.



--
Tim Lamb

On 04/11/2020 09:41, wrote:
If you think you know everything then I guess you don't need reference
documents and you're either a very lucky chap or very foolish.

It's a big leap from my position (which could be stated as 'within the
narrow confines of this particular DIY job use your own knowledge and
experience') to your misrepresentation of my attitude ('you think you
know everything')

Bill

On 04/11/2020 08:08, jim.gm4dhj wrote:
I had a crossbow because of willian tell on the telly in the 50's

For some reason we used to sing,

"Come away come with William Tell,
Come away come away to **** like hell!"

And also

"I'm Popeye the sailor man,
I live in a caravan,
There's room in the middle
For Popeye to piddle
I'm Popeye the sailor man."

Bill

On 04/11/2020 10:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
My friend made a ball bearing cannon - steel tube on a block with a
banger contents inside it. A quite snug fitting ball bearing was tamped
on top and some Jetex fuse was inserted into a breech hole. We aimed it
at the cast metal sign on the side of a tennis court, that ended up with
a neat 1/4" hole in it. It was never fired again...

Or simply hit with a hammer at an incorrect angle the head of the pin of
a cable clip . Chances are it will break off and fly. It has a lot of
energy and will bury itself in the flesh of any unfortunate passer-by.
Always wear safety glasses.

Bill