Reposting a message I found in ABPW:

(FWIW)

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:47:54 -0500, 25th Century Quaker
wrote:

Safety Innovator and SawStop Founder Stephen Gass to Meet With CPSC
Head; Open Meeting Held to Discuss Proposed New Safety Rule

9/5/2006 10:23:00 AM
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=71705

To: National Desk

Contact: Joe Householder, 713-301-0733, or
, for SawStop

WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 /U.S. Newswire/ -- On Wednesday, Sept. 6, Acting
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) Chair Nancy Nord will hold
an open meeting with SawStop founder Stephen Gass to discuss a
proposed new safety rule that could save the American economy billions
of dollars each year and prevent thousands of workplace and home
injuries. Gass is the inventor of the SawStop technology, which
drastically reduces the risk of injury in the use of table saws.

According to the CPSC, there are 55,000 table saw injuries each year
with an estimated cost to society of $2 billion. Many of those
injuries occur when an operator's fingers or hand comes into contact
with the rapidly spinning table saw blade. These injuries are often
devastating, ruining careers, putting families into emotional and
financial turmoil and disrupting businesses.

"So many of those injuries can be prevented," said Gass. The proven
SawStop technology stops a table saw blade within milliseconds after
it comes into contact with human skin, in most cases resulting in a
small nick, rather than an amputation.

Presently, CPSC staff is developing an Advanced Notice of Proposed
Rulemaking which, if it ultimately becomes an official rule, will
require all table saw manufacturers to ensure that blade contact
injuries result in a minor injury.

"The proposed rule under consideration by the CPSC would prevent
thousands of life-altering table saw injuries each year," said Gass.
"It would preserve jobs, reduce costs to employers, cut worker
compensation claims and ensure that families don't suffer the
emotional and financial devastation that these injuries cause."

The meeting, which is open to the public and the news media, will be
at 11 a.m. on Wednesday, Sept. 6. It will be held in the hearing room
at CPSC Headquarters, 4330 East West Highway, Bethesda, Md., 20814

For more information about SawStop and this innovative technology,
visit its Web page at http://www.sawstop.com.

George Max wrote in
:

Reposting a message I found in ABPW:

(FWIW)

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:47:54 -0500, 25th Century Quaker
wrote:

Safety Innovator and SawStop Founder Stephen Gass to Meet With CPSC
Head; Open Meeting Held to Discuss Proposed New Safety Rule

9/5/2006 10:23:00 AM
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=71705

To: National Desk

Contact: Joe Householder, 713-301-0733, or
, for SawStop

WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 /U.S. Newswire/ -- On Wednesday, Sept. 6, Acting
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) Chair Nancy Nord will hold
an open meeting with SawStop founder Stephen Gass to discuss a
proposed new safety rule that could save the American economy billions
of dollars each year and prevent thousands of workplace and home
injuries. Gass is the inventor of the SawStop technology, which
drastically reduces the risk of injury in the use of table saws.

According to the CPSC, there are 55,000 table saw injuries each year
with an estimated cost to society of $2 billion. Many of those
injuries occur when an operator's fingers or hand comes into contact
with the rapidly spinning table saw blade. These injuries are often
devastating, ruining careers, putting families into emotional and
financial turmoil and disrupting businesses.

"So many of those injuries can be prevented," said Gass. The proven
SawStop technology stops a table saw blade within milliseconds after
it comes into contact with human skin, in most cases resulting in a
small nick, rather than an amputation.

Presently, CPSC staff is developing an Advanced Notice of Proposed
Rulemaking which, if it ultimately becomes an official rule, will
require all table saw manufacturers to ensure that blade contact
injuries result in a minor injury.

"The proposed rule under consideration by the CPSC would prevent
thousands of life-altering table saw injuries each year," said Gass.
"It would preserve jobs, reduce costs to employers, cut worker
compensation claims and ensure that families don't suffer the
emotional and financial devastation that these injuries cause."

The meeting, which is open to the public and the news media, will be
at 11 a.m. on Wednesday, Sept. 6. It will be held in the hearing room
at CPSC Headquarters, 4330 East West Highway, Bethesda, Md., 20814

For more information about SawStop and this innovative technology,
visit its Web page at http://www.sawstop.com.



I find the numbers a bit hard to believe. How many table saw users are
there? I can't find a single person at work that owns one.

"R. Pierce Butler" wrote in message
I find the numbers a bit hard to believe. How many table saw users are
there? I can't find a single person at work that owns one.


I work for a small company (20 people) and there are at least four of us
that have a table saw. My neighbor across the street has one, as does the
neighbor next door. Given that percentage, with 300 million people in the
US, that is one hell of a lot of saws. I did see the number of injuries
someplace other that Saw Stop too, but I don't recall where it was.

I respect the technology and I believe that the SawStop is an excellant
product. I do not like the fact that the manufacture is trying to
force his product down my throat. I want to make the buying decision,
not being forced by some lawyer!

I can not believe his mission in life is to make all of us woodworkers
safe, but to line his own pockets!

Mike

I would think that the 55,000 TS injuries a year might be a little low.
This week I have had 3 injuries from my table saw, bumped into it once and
hurt my leg, laid down a stack of boards and mashed my finger, had a piece
of wood (large) fall from the table and hit my foot. None of these injuries
occurred when the saw was running, Total loss of time 5 min at most while I
was cussing my own stupidity, cost to business $0. Will the saw stop help
with any of those? they seem to be the most common type around my shop.
"George Max" wrote in message
...
Reposting a message I found in ABPW:

(FWIW)

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:47:54 -0500, 25th Century Quaker
wrote:

Safety Innovator and SawStop Founder Stephen Gass to Meet With CPSC
Head; Open Meeting Held to Discuss Proposed New Safety Rule

9/5/2006 10:23:00 AM
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=71705

To: National Desk

Contact: Joe Householder, 713-301-0733, or
, for SawStop

WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 /U.S. Newswire/ -- On Wednesday, Sept. 6, Acting
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) Chair Nancy Nord will hold
an open meeting with SawStop founder Stephen Gass to discuss a
proposed new safety rule that could save the American economy billions
of dollars each year and prevent thousands of workplace and home
injuries. Gass is the inventor of the SawStop technology, which
drastically reduces the risk of injury in the use of table saws.

According to the CPSC, there are 55,000 table saw injuries each year
with an estimated cost to society of $2 billion. Many of those
injuries occur when an operator's fingers or hand comes into contact
with the rapidly spinning table saw blade. These injuries are often
devastating, ruining careers, putting families into emotional and
financial turmoil and disrupting businesses.

"So many of those injuries can be prevented," said Gass. The proven
SawStop technology stops a table saw blade within milliseconds after
it comes into contact with human skin, in most cases resulting in a
small nick, rather than an amputation.

Presently, CPSC staff is developing an Advanced Notice of Proposed
Rulemaking which, if it ultimately becomes an official rule, will
require all table saw manufacturers to ensure that blade contact
injuries result in a minor injury.

"The proposed rule under consideration by the CPSC would prevent
thousands of life-altering table saw injuries each year," said Gass.
"It would preserve jobs, reduce costs to employers, cut worker
compensation claims and ensure that families don't suffer the
emotional and financial devastation that these injuries cause."

The meeting, which is open to the public and the news media, will be
at 11 a.m. on Wednesday, Sept. 6. It will be held in the hearing room
at CPSC Headquarters, 4330 East West Highway, Bethesda, Md., 20814

For more information about SawStop and this innovative technology,
visit its Web page at http://www.sawstop.com.

"mike" wrote in message
I can not believe his mission in life is to make all of us woodworkers
safe, but to line his own pockets!

And what you prefer to believe has been the subject of lively debate for
some time. However, there's always two sides to every story and I believe
there is some substance to the debate that the bulk of other tablesaw
manufacturers banded together to "slow" this technology.

Either way, it's a good technology and if money was no object for people, I
think this technology would not be receiving near as many negative comments
that it has.

"sweetsawdust" wrote in message
I would think that the 55,000 TS injuries a year might be a little low.
This week I have had 3 injuries from my table saw, bumped into it once
and
hurt my leg, laid down a stack of boards and mashed my finger, had a
piece
of wood (large) fall from the table and hit my foot. None of these
injuries
occurred when the saw was running, Total loss of time 5 min at most while
I
was cussing my own stupidity, cost to business $0. Will the saw stop help
with any of those?

Well, if the cost of the Sawstop prevented you from buying one, you'd have
been prevented from experiencing all of those klutz injuries and saved that
5 minutes. Think of it. 52 weeks x 5 minutes = over 4 hours. Think of the
money you could save then?

"mike" wrote in news:1157515777.972488.27840
@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:


I respect the technology and I believe that the SawStop is an excellant
product. I do not like the fact that the manufacture is trying to
force his product down my throat. I want to make the buying decision,
not being forced by some lawyer!

I can not believe his mission in life is to make all of us woodworkers
safe, but to line his own pockets!

Mike



I agree with you Mike. there comes a point in time when good common sense
and a little training goes a long way.

My father operated a Delta Unisaw for decades and never once had an injury
and he operated it as part of his full time job. I have operated the same
saw for many years as a hobbyist and never once had an injury. Safety
features on the saw? None at all. The saw was stripped of the blade guard
long before I was born. My father taught me to use the Unisaw and maybe
that is what keeps my digits attached.

The scariest saw in my shop? The band saw. My sons and I agree on that.
The one that will maim the quickest? The table saw of course. The tool
most likely to injure you? The drill press. The safest saw in the shop?
The scroll saw.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 23:43:13 -0500, "sweetsawdust"
wrote:

I would think that the 55,000 TS injuries a year might be a little low.
This week I have had 3 injuries from my table saw, bumped into it once and
hurt my leg, laid down a stack of boards and mashed my finger, had a piece
of wood (large) fall from the table and hit my foot. None of these injuries
occurred when the saw was running, Total loss of time 5 min at most while I
was cussing my own stupidity, cost to business $0. Will the saw stop help
with any of those? they seem to be the most common type around my shop.

What you need is my new IdiotSaw. We've thoughtfully silkscreened
"You're an idiot" on all sides of the base to save you valuable time.

Look for our future product that will audibly berate you whenever a
loud noise is detected. Accepting preorders now! You must be at
least 18 to order.


-Leuf

I've lurked long enough. . . .

I agree with almost everyone above - that this is a great safety
feature, yet that it shouldn't be forced on individuals. I agree that
the company's goal is to line their pockets, but I can't begrudge
someone a few bucks for what can save a lot of grief.

I am a hand surgeon in a suburb west of Cleveland, and have seen a
minimum 2-3 woodworking injuries a week over the last 15 years, many of
which end up in the OR. They range from close calls and nicked nails,
to devastating life changing and career ending injuries. Almost
everyone one of them is a table saw related injury (with a smattering of
chop saws, circular saws, drills, and the occasional router or jointer),
and every injury of significance involves contact with a moving (under
power or coasting) blade. While most admittedly represent some error in
judgment (poor outfeed support, small workpiece, blocking kickback,
fatigue, lapse of concentration, etc.), they happen to the experienced
woodworkers probably more often than to the inexperienced.

The best safety remains the guard and splitter (I'm ready for the
assault! - but I've still NEVER seen a table saw injury that needed to
see me when the guard was in place), but for people who feel better
without it, this could be a great thing. (Although even SawStop
recommends the guard and riving knife.)

Twenty (maybe 10?) years from now, some variation of this technology
will be as standard as the on-off switch, at least in the industrial
environment, and yes, it will likely be legislated. As individual
woodworkers today, our best bet is to learn the technologies and
encourage them, in the hope that, as Upscale said, the negative
impressions will fade away when the cost decreases.

David S.

sweetsawdust wrote:

I would think that the 55,000 TS injuries a year might be a little low.
This week I have had 3 injuries from my table saw, bumped into it once and
hurt my leg, laid down a stack of boards and mashed my finger, had a piece
of wood (large) fall from the table and hit my foot. None of these injuries
occurred when the saw was running, Total loss of time 5 min at most while I
was cussing my own stupidity, cost to business $0. Will the saw stop help
with any of those? they seem to be the most common type around my shop.
"George Max" wrote in message
...

Reposting a message I found in ABPW:

(FWIW)

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:47:54 -0500, 25th Century Quaker
wrote:


Safety Innovator and SawStop Founder Stephen Gass to Meet With CPSC
Head; Open Meeting Held to Discuss Proposed New Safety Rule

9/5/2006 10:23:00 AM
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=71705

To: National Desk

Contact: Joe Householder, 713-301-0733, or
, for SawStop

WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 /U.S. Newswire/ -- On Wednesday, Sept. 6, Acting
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) Chair Nancy Nord will hold
an open meeting with SawStop founder Stephen Gass to discuss a
proposed new safety rule that could save the American economy billions
of dollars each year and prevent thousands of workplace and home
injuries. Gass is the inventor of the SawStop technology, which
drastically reduces the risk of injury in the use of table saws.

According to the CPSC, there are 55,000 table saw injuries each year
with an estimated cost to society of $2 billion. Many of those
injuries occur when an operator's fingers or hand comes into contact
with the rapidly spinning table saw blade. These injuries are often
devastating, ruining careers, putting families into emotional and
financial turmoil and disrupting businesses.

"So many of those injuries can be prevented," said Gass. The proven
SawStop technology stops a table saw blade within milliseconds after
it comes into contact with human skin, in most cases resulting in a
small nick, rather than an amputation.

Presently, CPSC staff is developing an Advanced Notice of Proposed
Rulemaking which, if it ultimately becomes an official rule, will
require all table saw manufacturers to ensure that blade contact
injuries result in a minor injury.

"The proposed rule under consideration by the CPSC would prevent
thousands of life-altering table saw injuries each year," said Gass.
"It would preserve jobs, reduce costs to employers, cut worker
compensation claims and ensure that families don't suffer the
emotional and financial devastation that these injuries cause."

The meeting, which is open to the public and the news media, will be
at 11 a.m. on Wednesday, Sept. 6. It will be held in the hearing room
at CPSC Headquarters, 4330 East West Highway, Bethesda, Md., 20814

For more information about SawStop and this innovative technology,
visit its Web page at http://www.sawstop.com.

You folks ready for the other shoe to drop?
I predict that, once SawStop-type products are mandated, it will become
either flat-out illegal to resell old tablesaws (Unisaws, etc.) that don't
have that feature,
or corporate lawyers will recommend scrapping them out, rather than exposing
themselves to that liability. I also predict a sharp near-term rise in the
price
of Old Iron, thereby preventing me from ever being able to afford even a
used one.
(However, I might buy a SawStop for the local school, and donate it in
exchange
for their Unisaur, if I can write off the difference...)

(Oh, and Dr. Dave -- I'm amazed you see that stuff and still do
woodworking...
Nothing like a constant reminder, huh?)

"Chip"

"David" wrote in message
. ..
I've lurked long enough. . . .

I agree with almost everyone above - that this is a great safety
feature, yet that it shouldn't be forced on individuals. I agree that
the company's goal is to line their pockets, but I can't begrudge
someone a few bucks for what can save a lot of grief.

I am a hand surgeon in a suburb west of Cleveland, and have seen a
minimum 2-3 woodworking injuries a week over the last 15 years, many of
which end up in the OR. They range from close calls and nicked nails,
to devastating life changing and career ending injuries. Almost
everyone one of them is a table saw related injury (with a smattering of
chop saws, circular saws, drills, and the occasional router or jointer),
and every injury of significance involves contact with a moving (under
power or coasting) blade. While most admittedly represent some error in
judgment (poor outfeed support, small workpiece, blocking kickback,
fatigue, lapse of concentration, etc.), they happen to the experienced
woodworkers probably more often than to the inexperienced.

The best safety remains the guard and splitter (I'm ready for the
assault! - but I've still NEVER seen a table saw injury that needed to
see me when the guard was in place), but for people who feel better
without it, this could be a great thing. (Although even SawStop
recommends the guard and riving knife.)

Twenty (maybe 10?) years from now, some variation of this technology
will be as standard as the on-off switch, at least in the industrial
environment, and yes, it will likely be legislated. As individual
woodworkers today, our best bet is to learn the technologies and
encourage them, in the hope that, as Upscale said, the negative
impressions will fade away when the cost decreases.

David S.

sweetsawdust wrote:

I would think that the 55,000 TS injuries a year might be a little low.
This week I have had 3 injuries from my table saw, bumped into it once
and
hurt my leg, laid down a stack of boards and mashed my finger, had a
piece
of wood (large) fall from the table and hit my foot. None of these
injuries
occurred when the saw was running, Total loss of time 5 min at most
while I
was cussing my own stupidity, cost to business $0. Will the saw stop
help
with any of those? they seem to be the most common type around my shop.
"George Max" wrote in message
...

Reposting a message I found in ABPW:

(FWIW)

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:47:54 -0500, 25th Century Quaker
wrote:


Safety Innovator and SawStop Founder Stephen Gass to Meet With CPSC
Head; Open Meeting Held to Discuss Proposed New Safety Rule

9/5/2006 10:23:00 AM
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=71705

To: National Desk

Contact: Joe Householder, 713-301-0733, or
, for SawStop

WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 /U.S. Newswire/ -- On Wednesday, Sept. 6, Acting
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) Chair Nancy Nord will hold
an open meeting with SawStop founder Stephen Gass to discuss a
proposed new safety rule that could save the American economy billions
of dollars each year and prevent thousands of workplace and home
injuries. Gass is the inventor of the SawStop technology, which
drastically reduces the risk of injury in the use of table saws.

According to the CPSC, there are 55,000 table saw injuries each year
with an estimated cost to society of $2 billion. Many of those
injuries occur when an operator's fingers or hand comes into contact
with the rapidly spinning table saw blade. These injuries are often
devastating, ruining careers, putting families into emotional and
financial turmoil and disrupting businesses.

"So many of those injuries can be prevented," said Gass. The proven
SawStop technology stops a table saw blade within milliseconds after
it comes into contact with human skin, in most cases resulting in a
small nick, rather than an amputation.

Presently, CPSC staff is developing an Advanced Notice of Proposed
Rulemaking which, if it ultimately becomes an official rule, will
require all table saw manufacturers to ensure that blade contact
injuries result in a minor injury.

"The proposed rule under consideration by the CPSC would prevent
thousands of life-altering table saw injuries each year," said Gass.
"It would preserve jobs, reduce costs to employers, cut worker
compensation claims and ensure that families don't suffer the
emotional and financial devastation that these injuries cause."

The meeting, which is open to the public and the news media, will be
at 11 a.m. on Wednesday, Sept. 6. It will be held in the hearing room
at CPSC Headquarters, 4330 East West Highway, Bethesda, Md., 20814

For more information about SawStop and this innovative technology,
visit its Web page at http://www.sawstop.com.

"Chip Chester" wrote in
news
You folks ready for the other shoe to drop?
I predict that, once SawStop-type products are mandated, it will become
either flat-out illegal to resell old tablesaws (Unisaws, etc.) that
don't have that feature,
or corporate lawyers will recommend scrapping them out, rather than
exposing themselves to that liability. I also predict a sharp near-term
rise in the price
of Old Iron, thereby preventing me from ever being able to afford even a
used one.
(However, I might buy a SawStop for the local school, and donate it in
exchange
for their Unisaur, if I can write off the difference...)

(Oh, and Dr. Dave -- I'm amazed you see that stuff and still do
woodworking...
Nothing like a constant reminder, huh?)

"Chip"

"David" wrote in message
. ..
I've lurked long enough. . . .

I agree with almost everyone above - that this is a great safety
feature, yet that it shouldn't be forced on individuals. I agree that
the company's goal is to line their pockets, but I can't begrudge
someone a few bucks for what can save a lot of grief.

I am a hand surgeon in a suburb west of Cleveland, and have seen a
minimum 2-3 woodworking injuries a week over the last 15 years, many of
which end up in the OR. They range from close calls and nicked nails,
to devastating life changing and career ending injuries. Almost
everyone one of them is a table saw related injury (with a smattering
of chop saws, circular saws, drills, and the occasional router or
jointer), and every injury of significance involves contact with a
moving (under power or coasting) blade. While most admittedly
represent some error in judgment (poor outfeed support, small
workpiece, blocking kickback, fatigue, lapse of concentration, etc.),
they happen to the experienced woodworkers probably more often than to
the inexperienced.

The best safety remains the guard and splitter (I'm ready for the
assault! - but I've still NEVER seen a table saw injury that needed to
see me when the guard was in place), but for people who feel better
without it, this could be a great thing. (Although even SawStop
recommends the guard and riving knife.)

Twenty (maybe 10?) years from now, some variation of this technology
will be as standard as the on-off switch, at least in the industrial
environment, and yes, it will likely be legislated. As individual
woodworkers today, our best bet is to learn the technologies and
encourage them, in the hope that, as Upscale said, the negative
impressions will fade away when the cost decreases.

David S.

sweetsawdust wrote:

I would think that the 55,000 TS injuries a year might be a little
low. This week I have had 3 injuries from my table saw, bumped into
it once
and
hurt my leg, laid down a stack of boards and mashed my finger, had
a
piece
of wood (large) fall from the table and hit my foot. None of these
injuries
occurred when the saw was running, Total loss of time 5 min at most
while I
was cussing my own stupidity, cost to business $0. Will the saw stop
help
with any of those? they seem to be the most common type around my
shop. "George Max" wrote in
message ...

Reposting a message I found in ABPW:

(FWIW)

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:47:54 -0500, 25th Century Quaker
wrote:


Safety Innovator and SawStop Founder Stephen Gass to Meet With CPSC
Head; Open Meeting Held to Discuss Proposed New Safety Rule

9/5/2006 10:23:00 AM
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=71705

To: National Desk

Contact: Joe Householder, 713-301-0733, or
, for SawStop

WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 /U.S. Newswire/ -- On Wednesday, Sept. 6, Acting
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) Chair Nancy Nord will hold
an open meeting with SawStop founder Stephen Gass to discuss a
proposed new safety rule that could save the American economy
billions of dollars each year and prevent thousands of workplace and
home injuries. Gass is the inventor of the SawStop technology, which
drastically reduces the risk of injury in the use of table saws.

According to the CPSC, there are 55,000 table saw injuries each year
with an estimated cost to society of $2 billion. Many of those
injuries occur when an operator's fingers or hand comes into contact
with the rapidly spinning table saw blade. These injuries are often
devastating, ruining careers, putting families into emotional and
financial turmoil and disrupting businesses.

"So many of those injuries can be prevented," said Gass. The proven
SawStop technology stops a table saw blade within milliseconds after
it comes into contact with human skin, in most cases resulting in a
small nick, rather than an amputation.

Presently, CPSC staff is developing an Advanced Notice of Proposed
Rulemaking which, if it ultimately becomes an official rule, will
require all table saw manufacturers to ensure that blade contact
injuries result in a minor injury.

"The proposed rule under consideration by the CPSC would prevent
thousands of life-altering table saw injuries each year," said Gass.
"It would preserve jobs, reduce costs to employers, cut worker
compensation claims and ensure that families don't suffer the
emotional and financial devastation that these injuries cause."

The meeting, which is open to the public and the news media, will be
at 11 a.m. on Wednesday, Sept. 6. It will be held in the hearing
room at CPSC Headquarters, 4330 East West Highway, Bethesda, Md.,
20814

For more information about SawStop and this innovative technology,
visit its Web page at http://www.sawstop.com.






There is only one problem with the sawstop system. In the even of contact
with a finger it throws a chunk of aluminum into the teeth of the blade. I
wonder how many ruined blades there will be once people get really
careless. Then when they move from a Sawstop to a "unsafe" saw then you
can really watch the digits fly.

David wrote:

The best safety remains the guard and splitter (I'm ready for the assault!

I'm in Europe, where SawStop is unheard of and good guards and
splitters are standard. You have to be using quite old equipment to not
have both, and even then most have been retrofitted. Both are mandatory
for commercial machines (although you're allowed to remove guards where
appropriate for a particular operation)

I've still NEVER seen a table saw injury that needed to
see me when the guard was in place),

So why not follow Europe ? Seems like a sensible level of protection
and regulation.

mike wrote:
I respect the technology and I believe that the SawStop is an excellant
product. I do not like the fact that the manufacture is trying to
force his product down my throat.

Me either.

Now that SS has actual saws for sale, the market should decide if the
brake should be on all saws. If SawStop makes a mint, the other
manufacturers will have to either come up with a comparable feature, or
license it from SS.

If it's mandated on new saws, say buh-bye! to $400 table saws, like the
Bosch, Rigid, or Grizzly. Think of what it will do to the used table
saw market for non-commercial users! G

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. com...
mike wrote:
I respect the technology and I believe that the SawStop is an excellant
product. I do not like the fact that the manufacture is trying to
force his product down my throat.

Me either.

Now that SS has actual saws for sale, the market should decide if the
brake should be on all saws. If SawStop makes a mint, the other
manufacturers will have to either come up with a comparable feature, or
license it from SS.

If it's mandated on new saws, say buh-bye! to $400 table saws, like the
Bosch, Rigid, or Grizzly. Think of what it will do to the used table saw
market for non-commercial users! G

I wonder how this thing will work with a dado blade.
Jim

Jim Northey wrote:

I wonder how this thing will work with a dado blade.
Jim



SawStop has a special cartridge for dado blades.

On 6 Sep 2006 01:30:14 -0700, wrote:


David wrote:

The best safety remains the guard and splitter (I'm ready for the assault!

I'm in Europe, where SawStop is unheard of and good guards and
splitters are standard. You have to be using quite old equipment to not
have both, and even then most have been retrofitted. Both are mandatory
for commercial machines (although you're allowed to remove guards where
appropriate for a particular operation)

I've still NEVER seen a table saw injury that needed to
see me when the guard was in place),

So why not follow Europe ? Seems like a sensible level of protection
and regulation.

Every tablesaw sold in the US has a splitter and a guard. OSHA
requires these to be in place during operations in all commercial
settings. Quite like Europe, except you seem to have riving knives
while we have splitters. Also, I would guess, just like in Europe,
those who don't want to use the guards in their home workshop take
them off. There are no hobby police that travel around looking in
people's garages to see if their guards are in place. In commercial
shops anyone who allows the guards to be removed risks a nasty visit
from OSHA.

Dave Hall

"sweetsawdust" wrote in message
...
This week I have had 3 injuries from my table saw, bumped into it once
and
hurt my leg, laid down a stack of boards and mashed my finger, had a
piece
of wood (large) fall from the table and hit my foot. .....


My God man don't be posting this information. The next thing we know we
will be required to pad our tools, wear thimbles on our fingers, and use
steel-toe shoes in our home shops. We could also be subject to public
disorder charges if heard swearing in our garage shops.


RonB

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:39:09 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:

Jim Northey wrote:

I wonder how this thing will work with a dado blade.
Jim



SawStop has a special cartridge for dado blades.


Yeah, but at what hassle? I'm thinking most users will simply change
blades without bothering with the cartridge. And if it's not possible
to mount the dao without doing that change, this is going to anger a
lot of users. That's the ticket - sell more product by angering the
customers.

the whole sawstop thing is a perfect example of how broken our system is.
Rather than letting this (rather questionable in my opinion) product survive
in a competetive marketplace, the sawstop folks have decided that they'll
attempt to mandate the use of thier product.

Any time a vendor takes this path, I immediately have to seriously question
the viability of their product. If it as as good as they say it is, there
won't be any need for mandating its use (commercial shop or not). Do some
simple math:

the cost of having an employee lose a finger (even if its still attached,
but no longer works properly) is well over $10K - lost productivity,
increased insurance premiums, time spent on paperwork, etc. If their product
does what they say it does, as long as it costs less than $10K, and smart
shop will be adopting it (assuming of course it really does have no effect
on productivity). If it as good as they say, OSHA will eventually adopt its
use, and insurance companies will offer discounts to those shops that use
it. In other words, it'll pay for itself PDQ.

For the home/hobby shop, OSHA stays out anyway, so it doesn't matter what
OSHA says. Of course, the saw manufacturers may decide to cover their butts
by only selling saws with the sawstop.. BUt then, that is the goal of the
sawstop folks - don't forget: THEY know more about the risks you take in
your shop than you do. You really should let them decide whats safe for
you.....

Bottom line: if the product adds significant safety without impacting
productivity, it will succeed anyway. If it doesn't, it'll fail. The sawstop
folks know this, and are simply trying to force it onto the marketplace to
maximise thier profits. If they succeed, I see the market for used saw
really explaning in the near future.

Just another case of some hoser deciding that he wants more of your money,
weather you want to give it to him or not.....

--JD





"Jim Northey" wrote in message
news:7hzLg.509127$Mn5.104669@pd7tw3no...

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. com...
mike wrote:
I respect the technology and I believe that the SawStop is an excellant
product. I do not like the fact that the manufacture is trying to
force his product down my throat.

Me either.

Now that SS has actual saws for sale, the market should decide if the
brake should be on all saws. If SawStop makes a mint, the other
manufacturers will have to either come up with a comparable feature, or
license it from SS.

If it's mandated on new saws, say buh-bye! to $400 table saws, like the
Bosch, Rigid, or Grizzly. Think of what it will do to the used table saw
market for non-commercial users! G

I wonder how this thing will work with a dado blade.
Jim

RonB wrote:

My God man don't be posting this information. The next thing we know we
will be required to pad our tools, wear thimbles on our fingers, and use
steel-toe shoes in our home shops.

I wear ice hockey goalie gear, plus earplugs and dust protection.

George Max wrote:
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:39:09 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:

Jim Northey wrote:
I wonder how this thing will work with a dado blade.
Jim


SawStop has a special cartridge for dado blades.


Yeah, but at what hassle? I'm thinking most users will simply change
blades without bothering with the cartridge.

I'll bet some SawStop owners end up getting really good at routing dados.

R. Pierce Butler wrote:

I find the numbers a bit hard to believe. How many table saw users are
there? I can't find a single person at work that owns one.

At least 2% (4 out of 200) where I work have a TS at home, if you
applied 2% to 300million people that would be 6 million saws in the US.

Like most I'm not keen on being forced into buying something but I am
very hard-headed (proven by the fact the government didn't make me wear
a helmet to ride a bike as a kid).

I did check out the saw online and wonder how good it is. Looks like
it is about 30% more than a Unisaw but is the quality close? That
extra lifting mechanism that allows the blade to drop when triggered
seems like a good place to have unnecessary slop in the machine.

decent video he
http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/mai...netsaws01.html

How many have tried the sawstop? and does it compare in quality to
other cabinet saws?

I stopped over at the saw stop site and took a look at their products.
Interesting little gizmo, expensive, but very interesting.

I think if you're looking for an absolutely safe saw (from the blade
anyway) this puppy just might be the ticket... Though I didn't see
saftey bumpers on the corners, soft side cushions on the case, or an
airbag type appliance incase of kick backs. And WHAT ABOUT THOSE
BLASTED SPINTERS??

Ok I'll be serious for a moment, well as serious as I can be anyway...
It looks like somebody put a lot of thought into this and if it works
as claimed will save many a person from having to answer questions from
their grandkids about why they have to take their shoes off to count to
ten. However, with all new technology it's expensive. And anytime you
ask a typical woodworker to lay out more cash...Well, let's just say
it's not a good thing and leave it at that.

As for mandating that it be installed on all saws. That's an entirely
different thing. Now you're encroaching on our rights to injure and
maim ourselves in creative and painful ways as we see fit. I agree
with everybody above who says "if it's that good a system, it will sell
it's self and everybody will install it" The price will come down and
like also stated above it will be just like any other feature
"standard" on the saws.

Trying to mandate something in the US does tend to raise most folks
hackles, we're a bit stiff necked about things when somebody comes up
and says "This is how you're gonna do this, by the way you don't have a
choice". Even if it's for our own good, we tend to be stuborn types.

I am kinda curious about a few technical aspects of the system. Not
everybody keeps their shop in absolute perfect condition, some aren't
weather tight, some are damp basements... How does this system handle
adverse conditions. If it's relying on monitoring an electrical
current through the blade will rust effect it?

What about nails? (I realize we should inspect our wood etc, but it
does happen) Will hitting a nail in a piece of wood cause the safety to
trip? I'm thinking hitting metal will cause a rather abrupt spike in
conductivity and there by blow the stop. A block of aluminum hitting a
spinning blade means that blade is toast, at $70 a reload plus $50 (or
more) for a new blade, that's an expensive mistake. Does the saw
function if you don't reload the cartridge?

For industry I'm thinking they're doomed to have to incorporate it.
Insurance companies will make it happen if nobody else does. As with
all things it will eventually trickle down to consumer level products.
But just like the gaurds that are supposed to be on our saws now, how
many are actually in place? I think that that will be the fate of this
device as well for most of them.

My humbe two pennies worth of rambling... Take it as you will. :-)

"R. Pierce Butler" wrote in message
. 1...


I find the numbers a bit hard to believe. How many table saw users are
there? I can't find a single person at work that owns one.


Sounds low. When I had my accident in 1989 the OR nurse said that TS
accidents show up 3 to 4 times a week.

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:39:09 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:



Yeah, but at what hassle? I'm thinking most users will simply change
blades without bothering with the cartridge. And if it's not possible
to mount the dao without doing that change, this is going to anger a
lot of users. That's the ticket - sell more product by angering the
customers.

Maybe a phone call to SawStop will answer your questions and prevent you
from assuming something that may not be.

"jd" wrote in message
. ..
the whole sawstop thing is a perfect example of how broken our system is.
Rather than letting this (rather questionable in my opinion) product
survive in a competetive marketplace, the sawstop folks have decided that
they'll attempt to mandate the use of thier product.

Not true. It is already being marketed and there is no law requiring this
safety device yet. Had there not been any interest there would have been
no product.

Already North American named TS manufacturers are starting to offer some of
the safety features that SawStop already has.

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...

I did check out the saw online and wonder how good it is. Looks like
it is about 30% more than a Unisaw but is the quality close? That
extra lifting mechanism that allows the blade to drop when triggered
seems like a good place to have unnecessary slop in the machine.

..Apparently the SawStop surpasses the Delta and is more comparable in build
quality to the Powermatic 66.



decent video he
http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/mai...netsaws01.html

How many have tried the sawstop? and does it compare in quality to
other cabinet saws?

E-mail Robin at LeeValley. He has bought several that are not for sale.
Several have posted here in the past with favorable reports overall.

"R. Pierce Butler" wrote in message
. 1...

There is only one problem with the sawstop system. In the even of contact
with a finger it throws a chunk of aluminum into the teeth of the blade.
I
wonder how many ruined blades there will be once people get really
careless. Then when they move from a Sawstop to a "unsafe" saw then you
can really watch the digits fly.


If your finger hits the blade, the cost to replace the cartridge and blade
will be slight compared to the cost of repairing a finger.

"Chip Chester" writes:

or corporate lawyers will recommend scrapping them out, rather than exposing
themselves to that liability. I also predict a sharp near-term rise in the

Schools and colleges/universities are already replacing old iron with
Sawstops for liability reasons even without a CPSC rule.

If insurance companies get wind of the Sawstop they will probably require
businesses to purchase them or lose their insurance.

Brian Elfert

B A R R Y wrote in
om:

RonB wrote:

My God man don't be posting this information. The next thing we know
we will be required to pad our tools, wear thimbles on our fingers,
and use steel-toe shoes in our home shops.

I wear ice hockey goalie gear, plus earplugs and dust protection.


Doesn't the glove get in the way of the cut?

;-)

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On 6 Sep 2006 08:05:17 -0700, "RayV" wrote:


R. Pierce Butler wrote:

I find the numbers a bit hard to believe. How many table saw users are
there? I can't find a single person at work that owns one.

At least 2% (4 out of 200) where I work have a TS at home, if you
applied 2% to 300million people that would be 6 million saws in the US.

First you have to adjust your population figures to "hopuseholds" as
most kids don't own saws. Assuming an average household size of 3,
then 300 million people is 100 million households thus 2 million saws.
Now, after the math homework, back to your original programming....


Like most I'm not keen on being forced into buying something but I am
very hard-headed (proven by the fact the government didn't make me wear
a helmet to ride a bike as a kid).

I did check out the saw online and wonder how good it is. Looks like
it is about 30% more than a Unisaw but is the quality close? That
extra lifting mechanism that allows the blade to drop when triggered
seems like a good place to have unnecessary slop in the machine.

decent video he
http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/mai...netsaws01.html

How many have tried the sawstop? and does it compare in quality to
other cabinet saws?

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:44:35 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"George Max" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 12:39:09 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:



Yeah, but at what hassle? I'm thinking most users will simply change
blades without bothering with the cartridge. And if it's not possible
to mount the dao without doing that change, this is going to anger a
lot of users. That's the ticket - sell more product by angering the
customers.

Maybe a phone call to SawStop will answer your questions and prevent you
from assuming something that may not be.


I'm not going to bother. I won't be a SawStop customer.

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:50:51 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"jd" wrote in message
...
the whole sawstop thing is a perfect example of how broken our system is.
Rather than letting this (rather questionable in my opinion) product
survive in a competetive marketplace, the sawstop folks have decided that
they'll attempt to mandate the use of thier product.

Not true. It is already being marketed and there is no law requiring this
safety device yet. Had there not been any interest there would have been
no product.

Already North American named TS manufacturers are starting to offer some of
the safety features that SawStop already has.


You must be either a SawStop saw owner or an employee of their company
in some fashion.

Dave Hall wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 08:05:17 -0700, "RayV" wrote:


At least 2% (4 out of 200) where I work have a TS at home, if you
applied 2% to 300million people that would be 6 million saws in the US.

First you have to adjust your population figures to "hopuseholds" as
most kids don't own saws. Assuming an average household size of 3,
then 300 million people is 100 million households thus 2 million saws.
Now, after the math homework, back to your original programming....


Most of the people I work with are children or at the very least
childish.

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:31:03 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 06:00:03 GMT, "Chip Chester"
wrote:

I predict that, once SawStop-type products are mandated, it will become
either flat-out illegal to resell old tablesaws (Unisaws, etc.) that don't
have that feature,
Not unless the government wants to give you "just compensation",
otherwise it is a "taking".

Yeah, tell that to everyone with a bit of "wetlands" that they can't
sell or use. I'm pretty sure that they didn't get "just compensation"
for that loss. Same for anyone lucky enough to own a fully automatic
Thompson from the pre-gun control era - I don't think that they are
allowed to freely sell those. The Gov't would just declare the saws
too dangerous to sell except to collectors who have to disable the
sawing capabilities of the saw ;-)

Dave Hall

"Leon" wrote in news:0_BLg.9246$q63.9210
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:


"R. Pierce Butler" wrote in message
. 1...


I find the numbers a bit hard to believe. How many table saw users are
there? I can't find a single person at work that owns one.


Sounds low. When I had my accident in 1989 the OR nurse said that TS
accidents show up 3 to 4 times a week.




I wonder how many of those visiting the ER are repeat customers?

"George Max" wrote in message
...

I'm not going to bother. I won't be a SawStop customer.

That's what I thought.

"George Max" wrote in message
...

You must be either a SawStop saw owner or an employee of their company
in some fashion.

None of the above. Just some one that is not swayed by my emotions.

"R. Pierce Butler" wrote in message
. 1...



I wonder how many of those visiting the ER are repeat customers?


I never wondered that. Usually a trip to the ER leaves a lasting impression
that discourages a repeat of the same accident that got them in the first
place.
In my case however I almost had the same accident again 1 year later as I
never did realize how I was hurt until I almost repeated the accident. The
saw was turned off and there was no wood on the table. That pretty much
rules out improper procedure for 99.99% of preventable measures.