I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

--
Mint 20.0, kernel 5.4.0-42-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.

On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

The question is, what audio outputs the TV has (if any). Some "modern"
TVs don't have an audio output, or only optical, but you can get HDMI
adapters to extract the audio from one of the TV sockets I think.

My Sony has a 3.5mm jack socket, and it can be configured (through the
menus) to act as a line output rather than for a headphone, but the
headphone output should work all right, as the mismatch in level
compensates for the mismatch in impedance.

--
Max Demian

On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 18:31:04 +0000, Max Demian wrote:

On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an
HTPC. It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the
TV's speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to
the TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect
up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

The question is, what audio outputs the TV has (if any). Some "modern"
TVs don't have an audio output, or only optical, but you can get HDMI
adapters to extract the audio from one of the TV sockets I think.

My Sony has a 3.5mm jack socket, and it can be configured (through the
menus) to act as a line output rather than for a headphone, but the
headphone output should work all right, as the mismatch in level
compensates for the mismatch in impedance.

Thanks for this but I think I really need to replace the 2:1 computer
sound system with the hi-fi system.

It looks like you have clarified this. The grren socket aotputs analog
sound and that can go straight into the amplifier.

Thank you.





--
Mint 20.0, kernel 5.4.0-45-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.

On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

Yup in theory fine, as long as the amp has some spare inputs and you can
get a suitable line level signal to feed them. Note that the PC will see
the audio device on the end of the HDMI lead and its own analogue
outputs as separate audio output devices, so you may need to switch
between them if swapping from TV to HiFi audio.

(or take a feed to the amp from the the TV to capture whatever its
"playing". Sometimes this may need to be via a optical to phone
converter since not all modern TVs have analogue audio outputs for some
daft reason, but most have a SPDIF / Toslink out)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/10/2020 18:31, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer.Â* I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

The question is, what audio outputs the TV has (if any). Some "modern"
TVs don't have an audio output, or only optical, but you can get HDMI
adapters to extract the audio from one of the TV sockets I think.

My Sony has a 3.5mm jack socket, and it can be configured (through the
menus) to act as a line output rather than for a headphone, but the
headphone output should work all right, as the mismatch in level
compensates for the mismatch in impedance.

yes. I am driving my hifi from a 'headphone' socket. that way the volume
control on the TV works.

I think on that TV the only other alternative is optical, and that needs
a converter.

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

I don't see why not. I have an optical to phono output on the Samsung bought
from Amazon. The only issue I had was that hdmi lead to pc, put pc sound
into tv after the optical output, so had to pretend it was not hdmi by using
a vga to hdmi box and leaving the sound going via my external sound card
which has phonos too, so one could simply switch it as another source. I
have an annoying pulse though tht goes sheesh every few seconds if the hdmi
is connected on any input, Suspect some polling from the TV even in standby
is actually getting in via an earth loop somewhere, but I guess I will find
it in the end!
I do find however that modern tvs max output via line on these dongles is a
lot lower than the sound effects the TV makes and all other sound inputs so
one obviously does need some kind of level adjustment device I think. Too
many different standards, clearly!

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"pinnerite" wrote in message
...
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

--
Mint 20.0, kernel 5.4.0-42-generic, Cinnamon 4.6.7
running on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition processor with 8GB of DRAM.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:31, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

The question is, what audio outputs the TV has (if any). Some "modern"
TVs don't have an audio output, or only optical, but you can get HDMI
adapters to extract the audio from one of the TV sockets I think.

My Sony has a 3.5mm jack socket, and it can be configured (through the
menus) to act as a line output rather than for a headphone, but the
headphone output should work all right, as the mismatch in level
compensates for the mismatch in impedance.

yes. I am driving my hifi from a 'headphone' socket. that way the volume
control on the TV works.

I think on that TV the only other alternative is optical, and that needs
a converter.

My hi-fi unit has an optical input. To be coupled up today or tomorrow.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:31, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an
HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to
the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

The question is, what audio outputs the TV has (if any). Some "modern"
TVs don't have an audio output, or only optical, but you can get HDMI
adapters to extract the audio from one of the TV sockets I think.

My Sony has a 3.5mm jack socket, and it can be configured (through the
menus) to act as a line output rather than for a headphone, but the
headphone output should work all right, as the mismatch in level
compensates for the mismatch in impedance.

When I lived in a much smaller house with my settee only about 4 feet from
the (14") TV, I had my hi-fi unit next to the TV, and took a line-out feed
from the VCR to the hi-fi, and listened using wired headphones. This was
because the sound circuit and speaker in the TV were fairly poor - and
anyway they were mono because the TV predated NICAM. I very rarely, if ever,
had the volume turned up on the TV.

One thing that was interesting was to play the sound of ITV
(Southern/Meridian) through the TV and sound from ITV (Thames/LWT) through
the hi-fi and headphones - I could receive from both regions - and there was
a time lag that was just perceivable, especially on the "bongs" of News at
Ten. Nowadays, with fully digital feed to the transmitters and from the
transmitters to the TV, I imagine that the time difference might be *much*
greater depending on buffering.

In article ,
pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

A modern TV may well not have phono outputs. It likely has a headphone
socket, but maybe an ugly way to do it. But it will have an optical sound
output - toslink. You can buy toslink to phono adaptors for not a lot. But
they are mains powered.

If you don't want to run cables between them, pass.

--
*DON'T SWEAT THE PETTY THINGS AND DON'T PET THE SWEATY THINGS.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/10/2020 19:48, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer.Â* I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

Yup in theory fine, as long as the amp has some spare inputs and you can
get a suitable line level signal to feed them. Note that the PC will see
the audio device on the end of the HDMI lead and its own analogue
outputs as separate audio output devices, so you may need to switch
between them if swapping from TV to HiFi audio.

(or take a feed to the amp from the the TV to capture whatever its
"playing". Sometimes this may need to be via a optical to phone
converter since not all modern TVs have analogue audio outputs for some
daft reason, but most have a SPDIF / Toslink out)


Lip Sync ?.

I have a Denon mini hifi system upstairs in my computer room/office
and a 20? YO Phillips cassette/radio in the kitchen. If both are on
and tuned to the same BBC FM channel I can hear that they are out
of sync for some reason.

On 28/10/2020 13:58, Andrew wrote:
On 27/10/2020 19:48, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to
the
TV and /or computer.Â* I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

Yup in theory fine, as long as the amp has some spare inputs and you
can get a suitable line level signal to feed them. Note that the PC
will see the audio device on the end of the HDMI lead and its own
analogue outputs as separate audio output devices, so you may need to
switch between them if swapping from TV to HiFi audio.

(or take a feed to the amp from the the TV to capture whatever its
"playing". Sometimes this may need to be via a optical to phone
converter since not all modern TVs have analogue audio outputs for
some daft reason, but most have a SPDIF / Toslink out)


Lip Sync ?.

I have a Denon mini hifi system upstairs in my computer room/office
and a 20? YO Phillips cassette/radio in the kitchen. If both are on
and tuned to the same BBC FM channel I can hear that they are out
of sync for some reason.

Is the Denon playing from its FM tuner, or is it playing from a computer
based online radio?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 18:16:40 -0000 (UTC), pinnerite wrote:

I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

Just don't put the speakers close to the TV. I've a pair of good KEF but
wouldn't want them within a yard of the TV - but don't have room for them
anyway.
I bought a reasonable sound bar and it's agreat improvement. No point in
paying too much as I don't want a sub and going for excellent sound would be
wasted on my hearing.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.


There's a whole world of connectors out there, to go from
1/8" to stereo phono. I made up a bunch of adapter cables for my
receiver/mixer, so I could combine all audio device signals
into the one unit.

https://static.bhphoto.com/images/im...70_1020436.jpg

There are also cables with one type on one end, and the
other type on the opposite end. Doing it DIY is to save
some money on the deal.

The red and the white coloration are to suit the
standard for labeling Left and Right.

Paul

On 28/10/2020 13:58, Andrew wrote:
On 27/10/2020 19:48, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to
the
TV and /or computer.Â* I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

Yup in theory fine, as long as the amp has some spare inputs and you
can get a suitable line level signal to feed them. Note that the PC
will see the audio device on the end of the HDMI lead and its own
analogue outputs as separate audio output devices, so you may need to
switch between them if swapping from TV to HiFi audio.

(or take a feed to the amp from the the TV to capture whatever its
"playing". Sometimes this may need to be via a optical to phone
converter since not all modern TVs have analogue audio outputs for
some daft reason, but most have a SPDIF / Toslink out)

Lip Sync ?.

Not a problem if you are taking the feed off the TV itself. The delay in
the optical to DAC converter is at most a few us.

I have a Denon mini hifi system upstairs in my computer room/office
and a 20? YO Phillips cassette/radio in the kitchen. If both are on
and tuned to the same BBC FM channel I can hear that they are out
of sync for some reason.

Are you sure one of them isn't on DAB or using a DAB digital tuner of
some sort for FM reception which introduces an interesting delay on
programme content (as well as being highly inefficient).

Most noticeable when the pips are on the hour and you can hear more than
one tuner in different rooms. A classical FM decoder should produce a
radio output with at most a few us timing error.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared to the
TV and /or computer. I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.


Keep it simple. Selecting a gazillion switches just to watch TV is not fun.

On the other hand, you probably have multichannel outputs from your
computer sound card.

And I'm now counting that you effectively you have 5.1 speakers.

Do you enjoy films?

--
Adrian C

In article ,
PeterC wrote:
Just don't put the speakers close to the TV. I've a pair of good KEF but
wouldn't want them within a yard of the TV

Don't think that applies with a flat screen set. Only CRT types.

--
*Is there another word for synonym?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
I have a Denon mini hifi system upstairs in my computer room/office
and a 20? YO Phillips cassette/radio in the kitchen. If both are on
and tuned to the same BBC FM channel I can hear that they are out
of sync for some reason.

Are you sure one of them isn't on DAB or using a DAB digital tuner of
some sort for FM reception which introduces an interesting delay on
programme content (as well as being highly inefficient).

No audible delay between any FM tuners I've ever heard. But may well be
within the computer, which likely changes the analogue to digital and then
back to analogue for its speakers.

--
*Velcro - what a rip off!*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/10/2020 16:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
I have a Denon mini hifi system upstairs in my computer room/office
and a 20? YO Phillips cassette/radio in the kitchen. If both are on
and tuned to the same BBC FM channel I can hear that they are out
of sync for some reason.

Are you sure one of them isn't on DAB or using a DAB digital tuner of
some sort for FM reception which introduces an interesting delay on
programme content (as well as being highly inefficient).

No audible delay between any FM tuners I've ever heard. But may well be
within the computer, which likely changes the analogue to digital and then
back to analogue for its speakers.

Roberts Play using FM has a bit of an echo with other (frequency
synthesiser type) FM radios.

Motorola smart phone FM radio function has a delay of about 1/3 second.
So there must be some digital processing, even with FM.

(DAB is about 3 seconds behind.)

--
Max Demian

On 28/10/2020 16:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
PeterC wrote:
Just don't put the speakers close to the TV. I've a pair of good KEF but
wouldn't want them within a yard of the TV

Don't think that applies with a flat screen set. Only CRT types.

I used to have a big speaker right next to a CRT TV; it must have "got
used" to it being there, as removing it resulted in faint colour effects
on a plain white field.

--
Max Demian

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:

Motorola smart phone FM radio function has a delay of about 1/3 second.
So there must be some digital processing, even with FM.

Think with all modern computers there's no analogue side chain. So all
analogue is digitised, then converted back to analogue for the headphones.

And all digital has latency.

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 28/10/2020 16:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
PeterC wrote:
Just don't put the speakers close to the TV. I've a pair of good KEF but
wouldn't want them within a yard of the TV

Don't think that applies with a flat screen set. Only CRT types.

I used to have a big speaker right next to a CRT TV; it must have "got
used" to it being there, as removing it resulted in faint colour effects
on a plain white field.

Many reasonably up to date speakers from the late CRT days had shielded
magnets.

Here's one for you to ponder. If stray magnetism affected a TV, what did
it do to other speakers in the same box? I'm surprised Russ Andrews
doesn't have a product to sort this.

--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/10/2020 17:29, Max Demian wrote:
On 28/10/2020 16:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Martin Brown wrote:
I have a Denon mini hifi system upstairs in my computer room/office
and a 20? YO Phillips cassette/radio in the kitchen. If both are on
and tuned to the same BBC FM channel I can hear that they are out
of sync for some reason.

Are you sure one of them isn't on DAB or using a DAB digital tuner of
some sort for FM reception which introduces an interesting delay on
programme content (as well as being highly inefficient).

No audible delay between any FM tuners I've ever heard. But may well be
within the computer, which likely changes the analogue to digital and
then
back to analogue for its speakers.

Roberts Play using FM has a bit of an echo with other (frequency
synthesiser type) FM radios.

Motorola smart phone FM radio function has a delay of about 1/3 second.
So there must be some digital processing, even with FM.

(DAB is about 3 seconds behind.)

I think it is because the implementation of FM reception on some modern
tuners is entirely digital as software defined DSP radio implementation
rather than a classical analogue circuit (where delay is negligible).

Tuners sold as DAB tend to have this problem more than most. It
manifests as curious flanging effects as you move between the sound
fields of different radio receivers. It wouldn't surprise me if mobile
phones used a software solution for FM reception.

Different DAB tuners show it much more profoundly.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Max Demian wrote:

Motorola smart phone FM radio function has a delay of about 1/3 second.
So there must be some digital processing, even with FM.

Think with all modern computers there's no analogue side chain. So all
analogue is digitised, then converted back to analogue for the headphones.

And all digital has latency.


The ADC can do a conversion in one sample time. If
sampling at 48KHz, the delay to make digital is
the time period of one clock cycle.

That's not where significant computer audio delay comes from.
At that level, we're talking a few clock cycles here
and there (say 20us to 60us or so). You need time for
the sharp cutoff analog filter, a time for the sample
and hold, then the conversion cycle.

Computer audio delay, comes from interrupt handlers
and in effect, "packet buffers". The driver sends
a few hundred bytes to the sound card. When the buffer
is half empty, the scheme requests another packet.
The idea is to have a fifo buffer, where there aren't
any overruns or underruns. The size of the buffer
determines how many interrupts per second will result.
And across all OSes, the buffer has been set to a rather
large value at times. I don't have a collection
of numbers for this (in Linux you could adjust this
in ALSA).

Packet buffers reduces the overhead. If you had to raise
an interrupt for every byte of data, there would be
48000 interrupts per second. Which is four times
too many. Around 10000 to 15000 interrupts per second
is considered "enough", before the interrupt overload
solution cuts in. It's not practical to do it a
byte at a time.

All computer audio has latency (a latency you can hear
or experience). Not all hardware devices by themselves
though, have latency. If you had an ADC tacked in line
with a DAC, the latency through there would be quite
small and would not appear to affect lip sync on a
TV set.

The video latency through your LCD monitor, is around
four frame times or so.

The next time a computer mis-behaves on you, well,
there's a lot of crazy stuff going on, and not
very good odds of the computer doing a nice job.
Sorta like those LED lightbulbs we bought, that
take three seconds to turn on. Great idea,
but "heavily taxed". A latency tax.

The computer isn't always available when you want it
to be. People building "audio workstations", verify
their build with DPCLAT. The computer this was
collected on, when the desktop is idle, only the
shortest of the green bars is present in DPCLAT.
This means the computer could be used as an
Audio Workstation. However, you can't record audio
and play a 3D video game, without the possibility
of a click or pop in your recording effort. Measuring
the Delay Procedure Call latency, indicates whether
the computer is responsive enough for real time work.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzMkN7pV/dpclat-composite.gif

Using that picture, I could set my buffer depth to
1 millisecond. And tolerate most behaviors on the
machine. If I wanted to cover absolutely everything,
the buffer becomes 20 milliseconds, and then I can
be playing a CD while a game switches to 3D mode,
and the audio won't click, rasp, or buzz.

And just for the record, the video card should
not be allowed to do that. Those tall red bars.
Somebody should give NVidia a smack.

Paul

On 28/10/2020 17:29, Max Demian wrote:
Roberts Play using FM has a bit of an echo with other (frequency
synthesiser type) FM radios.

Motorola smart phone FM radio function has a delay of about 1/3 second.
So there must be some digital processing, even with FM.

There doesn't need to be digital processing. Back in the day delays were
extremely short - a few microseconds at most - on analogue type
filters and decoders.
But it may be that if you can turn an FM signal into a sampled digital
signal somewhere in the high kilohertz band then you can apply digital
filtering and decoding to that . I know that you can use a digital TV
dingle to recieve FM...

(DAB is about 3 seconds behind.)

Well, it would be.

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

ۥ Confucius

On 28/10/2020 17:32, Max Demian wrote:
On 28/10/2020 16:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* PeterC wrote:
Just don't put the speakers close to the TV. I've a pair of good KEF but
wouldn't want them within a yard of the TV

Don't think that applies with a flat screen set. Only CRT types.

I used to have a big speaker right next to a CRT TV; it must have "got
used" to it being there, as removing it resulted in faint colour effects
on a plain white field.

colour TVS were degaussed ...on switch on. Probably after a few hundred
more that would have faded.

--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

In article ,
Paul wrote:
All computer audio has latency (a latency you can hear
or experience). Not all hardware devices by themselves
though, have latency. If you had an ADC tacked in line
with a DAC, the latency through there would be quite
small and would not appear to affect lip sync on a
TV set.

Well, digital radio mics are well known for a degree of latency. Not
really a problem if used on their own, but can cause unwanted effects when
mixed in with pure analogue ones. The ear can hear a tiny delay when both
can be heard together.

--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
I think it is because the implementation of FM reception on some modern
tuners is entirely digital as software defined DSP radio implementation
rather than a classical analogue circuit (where delay is negligible).

Good reason not to buy new then. ;-) Since non of mine exhibit this.

Tuners sold as DAB tend to have this problem more than most. It
manifests as curious flanging effects as you move between the sound
fields of different radio receivers. It wouldn't surprise me if mobile
phones used a software solution for FM reception.

Different DAB tuners show it much more profoundly.

As do Freeview TVs both tuned to the same channel.

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/10/2020 14:08, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/10/2020 13:58, Andrew wrote:
On 27/10/2020 19:48, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/10/2020 18:16, pinnerite wrote:
I am not sure if this is the correct NG but here goes.
I have a vintage Techics Hi-fi system that has stood idle since the
arrival of widescreen TV, mainly because it is on the opposite side of
the room.

The TV is connected to a computer that runs Mythtv an serves as an
HTPC.
It has a cheap 3-speaker pc system that is an improvement on the TV's
speaker but is in no way "good".

We plan to move and I wondered if the hi-fi system could be geared
to the
TV and /or computer.Â* I am uncertain as to the best way to connect up.

Inputs to tha ampifier are all phono sockets.

Yup in theory fine, as long as the amp has some spare inputs and you
can get a suitable line level signal to feed them. Note that the PC
will see the audio device on the end of the HDMI lead and its own
analogue outputs as separate audio output devices, so you may need to
switch between them if swapping from TV to HiFi audio.

(or take a feed to the amp from the the TV to capture whatever its
"playing". Sometimes this may need to be via a optical to phone
converter since not all modern TVs have analogue audio outputs for
some daft reason, but most have a SPDIF / Toslink out)


Lip Sync ?.

I have a Denon mini hifi system upstairs in my computer room/office
and a 20? YO Phillips cassette/radio in the kitchen. If both are on
and tuned to the same BBC FM channel I can hear that they are out
of sync for some reason.

Is the Denon playing from its FM tuner, or is it playing from a computer
based online radio?


Both receiving FM radio through their radio tuner circuitry.
denon connected to home-brew FM aerial in loft, Phillips using
its antenna aerial.