I'm working on daughters new (to her, 21 year old) Honda motorbike.
She would normally do it (under my supervision) but Covid etc etc.

I've done the chain and sprockets (un-seizing the rear brake in the
process) and today replaced the fork seals and dust covers and in the
process, found the front brake caliper to be pretty stiff (single
sided floating caliper with dual pistons) so currently have it on the
bench with some Plus Gas round the pistons.

Now in the past I have forced the pistons out with compressed air
(restricting their travel with suitable blocks of wood / rag / clamps
etc) but feel it would be better to do hydraulically because it would
be more predictable and possibly safer.

So I might hook it back up to the bikes front brake system this time
but I was wondering about rigging up a general purpose hydraulic hand
pump for when I need to do such things.

It seems they do them fairly cheap on eBay and I'm assuming I could
use basic hydraulic fluid (less likely to take the paint off?) but I'd
need to make up some fairly high pressure adaptor hoses (25 bar)?

Is this something one can do diy and if so, do you need any special
tools for the joints etc?

I think the pumps come with a 1/2" male (looks tapered) outlet and so
I'd need a mating female to whatever I was working on, in the case of
most motorbikes, a 'banjo' connection of some sort.

Cheers, T i m

On 25/10/2020 22:07, T i m wrote:
I'm working on daughters new (to her, 21 year old) Honda motorbike.
She would normally do it (under my supervision) but Covid etc etc.

I've done the chain and sprockets (un-seizing the rear brake in the
process) and today replaced the fork seals and dust covers and in the
process, found the front brake caliper to be pretty stiff (single
sided floating caliper with dual pistons) so currently have it on the
bench with some Plus Gas round the pistons.

Now in the past I have forced the pistons out with compressed air
(restricting their travel with suitable blocks of wood / rag / clamps
etc) but feel it would be better to do hydraulically because it would
be more predictable and possibly safer.

So I might hook it back up to the bikes front brake system this time
but I was wondering about rigging up a general purpose hydraulic hand
pump for when I need to do such things.

It seems they do them fairly cheap on eBay and I'm assuming I could
use basic hydraulic fluid (less likely to take the paint off?) but I'd
need to make up some fairly high pressure adaptor hoses (25 bar)?

Is this something one can do diy and if so, do you need any special
tools for the joints etc?

I think the pumps come with a 1/2" male (looks tapered) outlet and so
I'd need a mating female to whatever I was working on, in the case of
most motorbikes, a 'banjo' connection of some sort.

Cheers, T i m

Given that you already have a hydraulic pump with all the right fittings
and fluid to hand this seems like a lot of work.

If you are going to make a general purpose system you have a choice
between using mineral oil and "brake fluid". (When you say "hydraulic
fluid" earlier it is not quite clear what you mean). I would generally
use mineral oil (absorbs less water, gives better lubrication for a
stuck or rusted system, and less likely to strip paint). But, you might
then worry about compatibility with seals specified for brake fluid. No
problem if you are going to replace them once you get the thing apart.
In fact in general people worry more than is necessary about
compatibility of mineral oil with rubbers other than nitrile and viton.
Provided the exposure is short and it is cleaned off well with suitable
solvents there should not be a problem. Although mineral oil will cause
natural and many other rubbers to swell and become soft the effect is
generally reversible.

On 25/10/2020 22:07, T i m wrote:


So I might hook it back up to the bikes front brake system this time
but I was wondering about rigging up a general purpose hydraulic hand
pump for when I need to do such things.

It seems they do them fairly cheap on eBay and I'm assuming I could
use basic hydraulic fluid (less likely to take the paint off?) but I'd
need to make up some fairly high pressure adaptor hoses (25 bar)?

Is this something one can do diy and if so, do you need any special
tools for the joints etc?

I think the pumps come with a 1/2" male (looks tapered) outlet and so
I'd need a mating female to whatever I was working on, in the case of
most motorbikes, a 'banjo' connection of some sort.

I still use reusable fittings for repairs, they're good up to 200bar

https://www.whitehouseproductsltd.co...ES/R010404.jpg

The ferrule has a ******* thread which you wind on the hose, there are
different types depending on whether you skive off the outer rubber
first or not or how many steal braid layers the hose has, you then wind
the coupling in and the taper grips the hose to the ferrule.

They are deprecated by the hydraulics engineers whose code of practice
does not allow them to repair hoses but only supply a new hose with new
swaged fittings.

On 25/10/2020 22:29:55, newshound wrote:
On 25/10/2020 22:07, T i m wrote:
I'm working on daughters new (to her, 21 year old) Honda motorbike.
She would normally do it (under my supervision) but Covid etc etc.

I've done the chain and sprockets (un-seizing the rear brake in the
process) and today replaced the fork seals and dust covers and in the
process, found the front brake caliper to be pretty stiff (single
sided floating caliper with dual pistons) so currently have it on the
bench with some Plus Gas round the pistons.

Now in the past I have forced the pistons out with compressed air
(restricting their travel with suitable blocks of wood / rag / clamps
etc) but feel it would be better to do hydraulically because it would
be more predictable and possibly safer.

So I might hook it back up to the bikes front brake system this time
but I was wondering about rigging up a general purpose hydraulic hand
pump for when I need to do such things.

It seems they do them fairly cheap on eBay and I'm assuming I could
use basic hydraulic fluid (less likely to take the paint off?) but I'd
need to make up some fairly high pressure adaptor hoses (25 bar)?

Is this something one can do diy and if so, do you need any special
tools for the joints etc?

I think the pumps come with a 1/2" male (looks tapered) outlet and so
I'd need a mating female to whatever I was working on, in the case of
most motorbikes, a 'banjo' connection of some sort.

Cheers, T i m

Given that you already have a hydraulic pump with all the right fittings
and fluid to hand this seems like a lot of work.

+1, that was my very thought. If it was a commercial business doing
loads then I can see the advantage.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:29:55 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

I think the pumps come with a 1/2" male (looks tapered) outlet and so
I'd need a mating female to whatever I was working on, in the case of
most motorbikes, a 'banjo' connection of some sort.


Given that you already have a hydraulic pump with all the right fittings
and fluid to hand this seems like a lot of work.

Well true, it's just that I'll have to do that with the caliper
dangling on the bike and with risk of spraying brake fluid everywhere
rather than on the bench in the workshop. ;-)

If you are going to make a general purpose system you have a choice
between using mineral oil and "brake fluid". (When you say "hydraulic
fluid" earlier it is not quite clear what you mean).

Jack oil? I saw a litre of something like that when looking for fork
oil yesterday but will have a closer look at it today.

I would generally
use mineral oil (absorbs less water, gives better lubrication for a
stuck or rusted system, and less likely to strip paint).

Yup, they seem to be the properties I'm looking for.

But, you might
then worry about compatibility with seals specified for brake fluid. No
problem if you are going to replace them once you get the thing apart.

Good point and true.

In fact in general people worry more than is necessary about
compatibility of mineral oil with rubbers other than nitrile and viton.
Provided the exposure is short and it is cleaned off well with suitable
solvents there should not be a problem.

As would be the case (brake cleaner).

Although mineral oil will cause
natural and many other rubbers to swell and become soft the effect is
generally reversible.

OK, thanks.

I appreciate Tribology is your thing g but do you have any
experience of any diy-able fittings that can takes the sorts of
pressure you might find in such a system?

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:33:59 +0000, AJH
wrote:

snip

I think the pumps come with a 1/2" male (looks tapered) outlet and so
I'd need a mating female to whatever I was working on, in the case of
most motorbikes, a 'banjo' connection of some sort.

I still use reusable fittings for repairs, they're good up to 200bar

More than enough! ;-)

https://www.whitehouseproductsltd.co...ES/R010404.jpg

Thanks.

The ferrule has a ******* thread which you wind on the hose, there are
different types depending on whether you skive off the outer rubber
first or not or how many steal braid layers the hose has, you then wind
the coupling in and the taper grips the hose to the ferrule.

So no need for an outer crimp / ferrule or is there still one?

They are deprecated by the hydraulics engineers whose code of practice
does not allow them to repair hoses but only supply a new hose with new
swaged fittings.

Understood. This would only be for the odd thing like this where I
have always wanted something more powerful (than ear) and more
controlled (than air) and for £12 for the hand pump and reservoir
(plus some adaptors), I thought it was worth the cost / effort setting
something up (even this late in my life). ;-)

We currently have 7 motorcycles in various states of readiness and
several cars so there is a 'good chance' I will be able to make use of
something like this in the future (as might mates etc).

I'll have to have a measure up and see if the motorcyles tend to use
the same size banjo connector and if so, I might just need one 'tail'
(1/2" female to banjo) adaptor (and it doesn't matter if it isn't a
perfect fit, as long as I can seal it for the job).

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
It seems they do them fairly cheap on eBay and I'm assuming I could
use basic hydraulic fluid (less likely to take the paint off?) but I'd
need to make up some fairly high pressure adaptor hoses (25 bar)?

Is this something one can do diy and if so, do you need any special
tools for the joints etc?

Vehicle Wiring Products have a fair selection of auto hydraulic fittings,
pipe and tools.

--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 10:29:23 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
It seems they do them fairly cheap on eBay and I'm assuming I could
use basic hydraulic fluid (less likely to take the paint off?) but I'd
need to make up some fairly high pressure adaptor hoses (25 bar)?

Is this something one can do diy and if so, do you need any special
tools for the joints etc?

Vehicle Wiring Products have a fair selection of auto hydraulic fittings,
pipe and tools.

Could be handy if I do car related stuff (and I might) so thanks.

For the moment I'm interested to consider how I might 'best' convert
whatever the fitting is that comes on the hose supplied with this pump
kit and whatever I might be trying to test.

Like, do I leave the 1/2" mal thread on there or cut it off and fit a
hydraulic quick connector of some sort (that might be more logical /
flexible. If that makes it all too expensive, the idea of screwing a
temporary fitting to the cut end of the flexi hose might be sufficient
(assuming I can get what I want in the right size in that format etc).

Cheers, T i m

On 26/10/2020 08:48, T i m wrote:


I appreciate Tribology is your thing g but do you have any
experience of any diy-able fittings that can takes the sorts of
pressure you might find in such a system?

Cheers, T i m

I've never DIY'd hydraulics apart from flaring brake pipe (easy enough
with the right tools) or buying and fitting ready made commercial hoses.
In another life a colleague of mine used to recharge Citroen suspension
spheres (I'm not sure what pressure they ran at). Another poster gave a
link for DIY hose terminations that looked quite interesting. Since I
replaced my tractor with an ATV I don't have any hydraulic kit except on
the cars and vans (and I only touch those in emergencies).

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:05:47 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 26/10/2020 08:48, T i m wrote:


I appreciate Tribology is your thing g but do you have any
experience of any diy-able fittings that can takes the sorts of
pressure you might find in such a system?


I've never DIY'd hydraulics apart from flaring brake pipe (easy enough
with the right tools)

Noted.

or buying and fitting ready made commercial hoses.

Ok.

In another life a colleague of mine used to recharge Citroen suspension
spheres (I'm not sure what pressure they ran at). Another poster gave a
link for DIY hose terminations that looked quite interesting.

Yeah, I will follow those up, when I get the pressure testing gadget
thing.

Since I
replaced my tractor with an ATV I don't have any hydraulic kit except on
the cars and vans (and I only touch those in emergencies).

Understood. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Whatabout what difference it might make if I put 5W oil in a
motorcycle fork as opposed to the recommended 10W?

I ask because one of the issues that most people suffer on motorbikes
is 'dive' under braking and unless your bike is fitted with any 'anti
dive' solutions (one of mine is), I don't think going between most of
the std weight oils used in such roles would impact that much (given
how much the suspension has to move 'normally' to give a reasonably
smooth ride)?

On 26/10/2020 09:14, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 22:33:59 +0000, AJH
wrote:

snip

I think the pumps come with a 1/2" male (looks tapered) outlet and so
I'd need a mating female to whatever I was working on, in the case of
most motorbikes, a 'banjo' connection of some sort.

I still use reusable fittings for repairs, they're good up to 200bar

More than enough! ;-)

https://www.whitehouseproductsltd.co...ES/R010404.jpg

Thanks.

The ferrule has a ******* thread which you wind on the hose, there are
different types depending on whether you skive off the outer rubber
first or not or how many steal braid layers the hose has, you then wind
the coupling in and the taper grips the hose to the ferrule.

So no need for an outer crimp / ferrule or is there still one?

No the taper thread screwing into the ferrule which is already screwed
onto the hose with a reverse thread replaces the need for crimping.

The ferrules for one type of hose are then used with whatever end you
want, of the type in the link.

I am only saying you can use it to adapt fittings for testing, certainly
not for use in hydraulic components for brake systems of vehicles.

On 26/10/2020 14:14, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:05:47 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 26/10/2020 08:48, T i m wrote:


I appreciate Tribology is your thing g but do you have any
experience of any diy-able fittings that can takes the sorts of
pressure you might find in such a system?


I've never DIY'd hydraulics apart from flaring brake pipe (easy enough
with the right tools)

Noted.

or buying and fitting ready made commercial hoses.

Ok.

In another life a colleague of mine used to recharge Citroen suspension
spheres (I'm not sure what pressure they ran at). Another poster gave a
link for DIY hose terminations that looked quite interesting.

Yeah, I will follow those up, when I get the pressure testing gadget
thing.

Since I
replaced my tractor with an ATV I don't have any hydraulic kit except on
the cars and vans (and I only touch those in emergencies).

Understood. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Whatabout what difference it might make if I put 5W oil in a
motorcycle fork as opposed to the recommended 10W?

I ask because one of the issues that most people suffer on motorbikes
is 'dive' under braking and unless your bike is fitted with any 'anti
dive' solutions (one of mine is), I don't think going between most of
the std weight oils used in such roles would impact that much (given
how much the suspension has to move 'normally' to give a reasonably
smooth ride)?

The one anti-dive system I had that really worked was on an MZ 250 with
a leading link fork. The torque reaction on the shoe carrier plate
(can't remember the proper name for it) made a huge difference. Contrast
that with the Aerial Leader / Arrow with their trailing link suspension,
I'm convinced that even with the tiny 6 inch drums the braking effect
was deliberately weakened to reduce dive.

I don't know about modern anti dive systems, is there some cleverness?
The only passive effect I can see with a telescopic fork is that the
torque reaction will increases the loads on the plain bearings. (On the
MZ you could actually feel the front lift when you braked hard).

Putting in a thinner oil will just reduce the damping a bit. But 10 to 5
is not a very big change. I know all the design theory about EHL film
thicknesses, but (within limits) gearboxes are not actually all that
sensitive to oil viscosity because a thicker oil will run a bit warmer,
and that will drop the viscosity significantly. The same is probably
true of fork oil, especially on bumpy terrain.

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:24:08 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

p.s. Whatabout what difference it might make if I put 5W oil in a
motorcycle fork as opposed to the recommended 10W?

I ask because one of the issues that most people suffer on motorbikes
is 'dive' under braking and unless your bike is fitted with any 'anti
dive' solutions (one of mine is), I don't think going between most of
the std weight oils used in such roles would impact that much (given
how much the suspension has to move 'normally' to give a reasonably
smooth ride)?

The one anti-dive system I had that really worked was on an MZ 250 with
a leading link fork.

I had a few step though mopeds and small motorcycles that were the
same. ;-)

The torque reaction on the shoe carrier plate
(can't remember the proper name for it)

Backplate?

made a huge difference. Contrast
that with the Aerial Leader / Arrow with their trailing link suspension,
I'm convinced that even with the tiny 6 inch drums the braking effect
was deliberately weakened to reduce dive.

Like fitting narrower tyres to stop a car from rolling over. ;-)

I don't know about modern anti dive systems, is there some cleverness?

All the active suspension and electronics.

The only passive effect I can see with a telescopic fork is that the
torque reaction will increases the loads on the plain bearings.

On my GPZ550 it has hydraulic anti-dive. When you operate the front
brake it actions a piston in a bypass valve on the fork legs that
prevents the damper oil going past the damper itself and so stops the
fork from diving. Also it has 'air assisted' front suspension (you
pump it up).

It also has a complex rear suspension linkage (Uni-trak) that provides
'anti squat' (the back sinking down on acceleration) so it was quite
technically advanced tool in it's day. ;-)

(On the
MZ you could actually feel the front lift when you braked hard).

Yeah, like the bikes I mentioned above. ;-)

Putting in a thinner oil will just reduce the damping a bit. But 10 to 5
is not a very big change.

I guess as with most things it's a compromise. For me it would be
right if it keep the front wheel running smoothly on the road (no
patter or other anomalies) whilst providing the best ride for the
rider?

I know all the design theory about EHL film
thicknesses, but (within limits) gearboxes are not actually all that
sensitive to oil viscosity because a thicker oil will run a bit warmer,
and that will drop the viscosity significantly.

Yeah.

The same is probably
true of fork oil, especially on bumpy terrain.

Oh, for sure, Paris-Dakar suspension units spontaneously combusting is
proof of that!

Whilst the UK roads are bad, they aren't quite that bad so I think
some of it can be a bit suck it and see (within some constraints).

It's funny, when I thought I was going to put the 2L Pinto engine in
the kitcar (instead of the 1300 Kent) I needed to replace a broken
road spring to took the opportunity to upgrade the struts for stronger
ones with heavier springs and damping. Then I changed my mind so had
some std tension springs made (with +1" lift to offset the extra
weight over the donor vehicle) but left the h/d dampers. So, if you
sit on the front in now sags as would be right for a comfortable ride
but you don't actually get one once moving because of the stiff
dampers. ;-(

I kept the springs and may return to them if / when I convert it to
electric. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:04:02 +0000, AJH
wrote:
snip

The ferrule has a ******* thread which you wind on the hose, there are
different types depending on whether you skive off the outer rubber
first or not or how many steal braid layers the hose has, you then wind
the coupling in and the taper grips the hose to the ferrule.

So no need for an outer crimp / ferrule or is there still one?

No the taper thread screwing into the ferrule which is already screwed
onto the hose with a reverse thread replaces the need for crimping.

Ah, gotcha.

The ferrules for one type of hose are then used with whatever end you
want, of the type in the link.

Cool.

I am only saying you can use it to adapt fittings for testing, certainly
not for use in hydraulic components for brake systems of vehicles.

Understood ... and exactly how I would be using it (testing).

Cheers, T i m

On 27/10/2020 00:22, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:24:08 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip


The torque reaction on the shoe carrier plate
(can't remember the proper name for it)

Backplate?

That's it!


I don't know about modern anti dive systems, is there some cleverness?

All the active suspension and electronics.

The only passive effect I can see with a telescopic fork is that the
torque reaction will increases the loads on the plain bearings.

On my GPZ550 it has hydraulic anti-dive. When you operate the front
brake it actions a piston in a bypass valve on the fork legs that
prevents the damper oil going past the damper itself and so stops the
fork from diving. Also it has 'air assisted' front suspension (you
pump it up).

I was forgetting that with these new fangled hydraulic brakes on bikes
it's relatively easy to add a second actuator. Damned clever, these Japs.

(Cue Peter Sellers in Dr Strangelove, "The swine! Funny thing is they
make such bloody good cameras")


It also has a complex rear suspension linkage (Uni-trak) that provides
'anti squat' (the back sinking down on acceleration) so it was quite
technically advanced tool in it's day. ;-)

Although of course that doesn't prevent the weight transfer to the back
wheel



I guess as with most things it's a compromise. For me it would be
right if it keep the front wheel running smoothly on the road (no
patter or other anomalies) whilst providing the best ride for the
rider?

Agreed


Whilst the UK roads are bad, they aren't quite that bad so I think
some of it can be a bit suck it and see (within some constraints).

Agreed. If it really made such a difference you would use a multi-grade,
or change the grade from summer to winter. I guess since the quantities
are small they probably have a high viscosity index, perhaps even Group
V synthetics.

On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 12:26:57 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

On my GPZ550 it has hydraulic anti-dive. When you operate the front
brake it actions a piston in a bypass valve on the fork legs that
prevents the damper oil going past the damper itself and so stops the
fork from diving. Also it has 'air assisted' front suspension (you
pump it up).

I was forgetting that with these new fangled hydraulic brakes on bikes
it's relatively easy to add a second actuator.

Well, I guess some might call the early 80's 'new fangled'. ;-)

Damned clever, these Japs.

They have certainly be good at getting stuff out there, knowing it
made sense, even if isn't 'typical' of the time. As soon as they did
the killed the British Bike industry as we failed to do that looking
ahead ... ;-(

(Cue Peter Sellers in Dr Strangelove, "The swine! Funny thing is they
make such bloody good cameras")

;-)


It also has a complex rear suspension linkage (Uni-trak) that provides
'anti squat' (the back sinking down on acceleration) so it was quite
technically advanced tool in it's day. ;-)

Although of course that doesn't prevent the weight transfer to the back
wheel

Indeed, as anti dive doesn't to the front, it just feels 'flatter' for
the rider. There was a marked difference in both when comparing my BMW
R100RT (sorts tourer) and her Yamaha XV750 (custom cruiser). Because
hers was much lower, you didn't seem to get anything like the dive /
squat of the BMW.


snip

Whilst the UK roads are bad, they aren't quite that bad so I think
some of it can be a bit suck it and see (within some constraints).

Agreed. If it really made such a difference you would use a multi-grade,
or change the grade from summer to winter.

Good point.

I guess since the quantities
are small they probably have a high viscosity index, perhaps even Group
V synthetics.

https://www.silkolene.com/motorcycle...-fluids/rsf-5/

That's (or it's the latest variant of) what I used on daughters front
forks, doesn't give you a list of ingredients, only that it's ISO22.

OOI, does that mean that I could use 'any' oil that complied to ISO22
(average viscosity 22 @ 40DegC etc) or is that just an umbrella term
(because of the additives I believe you have mentioned previously)?

Cheers, T i m

On 27/10/2020 15:40, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 12:26:57 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

On my GPZ550 it has hydraulic anti-dive. When you operate the front
brake it actions a piston in a bypass valve on the fork legs that
prevents the damper oil going past the damper itself and so stops the
fork from diving. Also it has 'air assisted' front suspension (you
pump it up).

I was forgetting that with these new fangled hydraulic brakes on bikes
it's relatively easy to add a second actuator.

Well, I guess some might call the early 80's 'new fangled'. ;-)

Damned clever, these Japs.

They have certainly be good at getting stuff out there, knowing it
made sense, even if isn't 'typical' of the time. As soon as they did
the killed the British Bike industry as we failed to do that looking
ahead ... ;-(

(Cue Peter Sellers in Dr Strangelove, "The swine! Funny thing is they
make such bloody good cameras")

;-)


It also has a complex rear suspension linkage (Uni-trak) that provides
'anti squat' (the back sinking down on acceleration) so it was quite
technically advanced tool in it's day. ;-)

Although of course that doesn't prevent the weight transfer to the back
wheel

Indeed, as anti dive doesn't to the front, it just feels 'flatter' for
the rider. There was a marked difference in both when comparing my BMW
R100RT (sorts tourer) and her Yamaha XV750 (custom cruiser). Because
hers was much lower, you didn't seem to get anything like the dive /
squat of the BMW.


snip

Whilst the UK roads are bad, they aren't quite that bad so I think
some of it can be a bit suck it and see (within some constraints).

Agreed. If it really made such a difference you would use a multi-grade,
or change the grade from summer to winter.

Good point.

I guess since the quantities
are small they probably have a high viscosity index, perhaps even Group
V synthetics.

https://www.silkolene.com/motorcycle...-fluids/rsf-5/

That's (or it's the latest variant of) what I used on daughters front
forks, doesn't give you a list of ingredients, only that it's ISO22.

OOI, does that mean that I could use 'any' oil that complied to ISO22
(average viscosity 22 @ 40DegC etc) or is that just an umbrella term
(because of the additives I believe you have mentioned previously)?

Cheers, T i m

It's a highly refined mineral oil, so not likely to have a particularly
good viscosity index (this is a measure of how rapidly viscosity changes
with temperature).

https://www.google.com/search?q=silk...ome& ie=UTF-8

ISO 22 just tells you about its viscosity. Most hydraulic oils seem to
use Group II base oils (refined mineral oils) with assorted additives
including anti-wear, anti-oxidation, anti-sludge, foam inhibitors. I'd
go for something that claims to be suitable for m/c forks since a
trolley jack oil doesn't really need anti foam performance, for example.

On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:55:41 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

OOI, does that mean that I could use 'any' oil that complied to ISO22
(average viscosity 22 @ 40DegC etc) or is that just an umbrella term
(because of the additives I believe you have mentioned previously)?


It's a highly refined mineral oil, so not likely to have a particularly
good viscosity index (this is a measure of how rapidly viscosity changes
with temperature).

Ok.

ISO 22 just tells you about its viscosity. Most hydraulic oils seem to
use Group II base oils (refined mineral oils) with assorted additives
including anti-wear, anti-oxidation, anti-sludge, foam inhibitors.

Ok.

I'd
go for something that claims to be suitable for m/c forks since a
trolley jack oil doesn't really need anti foam performance, for example.

Ok thanks ... I was only wondering if it was just marketing.

Talking to an old motorcycle mechanic the other day and he said he'd
often used ATF in forks and it worked well?

When I drained the forks on daughters new bike the other day the leg
the PO said he's changed the seal on (but was still leaking) had some
cleanish fluid in it but the other side that had an unchanged seal in
it wasn't leaking because there was only an eggcup of a grey sludge in
there (grey from the ally of the from the inside of the fork leg). ;-(

In one way I'm glad it showed the signs of needing a 'good going over'
as otherwise she might have been riding it like that.

Once I've got the front forks / wheel / mudguard / new disk and pads
and rebuilt caliper back on, I'll change the oil and check the air
filter and take it out for a test ride for her (assuming it's not
still raining ... ). ;-(

I'll probably get mine back on the road as well as I like to have at
least one bike available, just in case ... and it's nice to have a
pootle round the B roads. You get some nice dry days, even in the
winter and she's bound to want to go for a little ride out with her
old Dad. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 27/10/2020 21:38, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:55:41 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

OOI, does that mean that I could use 'any' oil that complied to ISO22
(average viscosity 22 @ 40DegC etc) or is that just an umbrella term
(because of the additives I believe you have mentioned previously)?


It's a highly refined mineral oil, so not likely to have a particularly
good viscosity index (this is a measure of how rapidly viscosity changes
with temperature).

Ok.

ISO 22 just tells you about its viscosity. Most hydraulic oils seem to
use Group II base oils (refined mineral oils) with assorted additives
including anti-wear, anti-oxidation, anti-sludge, foam inhibitors.

Ok.

I'd
go for something that claims to be suitable for m/c forks since a
trolley jack oil doesn't really need anti foam performance, for example.

Ok thanks ... I was only wondering if it was just marketing.

Talking to an old motorcycle mechanic the other day and he said he'd
often used ATF in forks and it worked well?

ATF is the same sort of stuff and probably very similar viscosity.
There's perhaps not quite the same scope for foaming as in forks.


When I drained the forks on daughters new bike the other day the leg
the PO said he's changed the seal on (but was still leaking) had some
cleanish fluid in it but the other side that had an unchanged seal in
it wasn't leaking because there was only an eggcup of a grey sludge in
there (grey from the ally of the from the inside of the fork leg). ;-(

In one way I'm glad it showed the signs of needing a 'good going over'
as otherwise she might have been riding it like that.

Once I've got the front forks / wheel / mudguard / new disk and pads
and rebuilt caliper back on, I'll change the oil and check the air
filter and take it out for a test ride for her (assuming it's not
still raining ... ). ;-(

I'll probably get mine back on the road as well as I like to have at
least one bike available, just in case ... and it's nice to have a
pootle round the B roads. You get some nice dry days, even in the
winter and she's bound to want to go for a little ride out with her
old Dad. ;-)

I don't often feel tempted to get another bike, I get my kicks (as it
were) from horses these days. However having been dumped on a rock the
other day leaving me with a very bruised glute I do sometimes wonder.

:-)

On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 09:23:05 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

Talking to an old motorcycle mechanic the other day and he said he'd
often used ATF in forks and it worked well?

ATF is the same sort of stuff and probably very similar viscosity.

OK. I've not played with ATF much, only ever adding it to the auto box
on our 1300 Mk1 Escort. ;-)

There's perhaps not quite the same scope for foaming as in forks.

True, I'd imagine it would get pretty 'busy' in there, especially on
more bumpy roads.

I try to look upon such things is that the manufacturers probably put
a fair bit of effort of tweaking the characteristics of this hardware
(even though it might be used across a range of different vehicles,
albeit that they would probably all share similar roles, like
'commuter' or 'offroad' bikes) and therefore it would be sensible or
respectful to follow their guidance. That said, these vehicles can be
used by a range of people (weights, riding styles, goods carrying) and
in a wide range of climates that might all need catering for, to
maintain the original functionality.

A classic example of people generally making things worse is those who
dump the factory exhaust (optimised for all sorts of things across the
entire rev range) and replace it for something that is 'lighter' (when
they could same loads more by going on a diet) or better because it's
louder' (when it's actually worse, if not Dyno'd in etc). ;-(


snip

I'll probably get mine back on the road as well as I like to have at
least one bike available, just in case ... and it's nice to have a
pootle round the B roads. You get some nice dry days, even in the
winter and she's bound to want to go for a little ride out with her
old Dad. ;-)

I don't often feel tempted to get another bike, I get my kicks (as it
were) from horses these days.

I think if you have ever had a bike, especially from a kid (first
motorised transport etc, rarely the case these days probably) it's
difficult to be without one.

I'm lucky as apart from commuting to college on my moped(s) and then
BT on my Lambretta scooter for a bit (there was a railway crossing and
being on a bike meant you could *always* get across on the first
opening when it might take several goes in a car), I've only really
used my bikes for the odd trip when it was likely to be faster
(traffic) or in the early days, more economic (fuel costs) and
recreation. Going somewhere on the / a bike for a change, like
motorcycle touring / camping.

However having been dumped on a rock the
other day leaving me with a very bruised glute I do sometimes wonder.

Yeah, there do seem to be some quite nasty injuries from people being
thrown / falling from horses (helicopter rescue as there are rarely on
the high street) but there are probably loads more associated from
biking, even if equally not always the riders fault (someone pulling
out without looking like a horse being spooked etc).

From a vegans POV, ignoring the general moral aspect of 'not
exploiting animals for any reason', I would put the idea of a light
person riding a large horse at a rate the horse enjoyed and over
terrain the horse found easy / enjoyable and given all the pampering
and care they might also enjoy, that would be well down the list ...
and certainly well below horse racing and jumping etc.

I think any arguments against could be countered to some degree by the
idea of increasing the animals enrichment, over what it might
experience if it was doing it's own thing in the wild.

Daughters rescue terrier seems 'game' to climb / jump up / over
anything ... and often climbing stuff taller than me. We first learned
this when we took him to dog training and whilst being the worst
behaved dog there (and certainly the noisiest) he seemed more than
willing to try all the agility equipment on the breaks. 7' tall ramps,
see-saw, tunnels ... you only had to point him at and he'd do them,
not quite so good at the zig-zag thing. In contrast, the lurcher we
are currently providing convalescence to has no interest in any of
that sort of thing and just wants to run.

The good news is how many dogs you meet that are out walking are also
'rescues'. One, a lovely Great Dane came from turkey where they clip
their ears ... ;-(

https://ibb.co/HT1Dfwy

I think it's to make them less vulnerable in a fight or when hunting?
;-(

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
OK. I've not played with ATF much, only ever adding it to the auto box
on our 1300 Mk1 Escort. ;-)

A mixture of ATF and paraffin makes a decent penetrating oil. Or rather as
good as most.

--
*Cover me. I'm changing lanes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 11:01:06 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
OK. I've not played with ATF much, only ever adding it to the auto box
on our 1300 Mk1 Escort. ;-)

A mixture of ATF and paraffin makes a decent penetrating oil. Or rather as
good as most.

I'll see if I have some of each as my Plus Gas spouty (long ally spout
and has probably lasted a long time because you can use the spout to
apply it just where you want it, not spray it everywhere) tin is
nearly empty. ;-(

Cheers, T i m