The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 14:34:49 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Isn't that like saying 'Some of my best mates are black'?

This will always be the issue when people do the 'Wrong thing' and
whilst slavery may have been 'legal' then, doesn't mean it was moral
'then', and it's the general morality of people being held up as 'Good
people' that is now being questioned.

So no one would question many of these people *also* did good things,
but the fact that they also did bad (immoral) things means it may not
be appropriate to present them as 'heroes', especially to those who
may have suffered by their hand.

I understand the toppled statue of Edward Colston will still be on
display in a museum for anyone to see if they wish and I'm sure many
will still celebrate any good things he did, it just won't be 'put on
a pedestal' in a generally public / prominent position.

That's not whitewashing anything, it's just reflecting the feelings of
those who may not appreciate said bad things.

Conversely, don't we [1] actually 'celebrate' the failed attempt to
blow up the Houses of Parliament by burning effigies of a person
involved in the attempt?

Cheers, T i m

[1] Well, not me of course, the wasteful 'celebration' by the
effective setting fire to money and terrifying animals bit.

T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 14:34:49 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Isn't that like saying 'Some of my best mates are black'?

This will always be the issue when people do the 'Wrong thing' and
whilst slavery may have been 'legal' then, doesn't mean it was moral
'then', and it's the general morality of people being held up as 'Good
people' that is now being questioned.

So no one would question many of these people *also* did good things,
but the fact that they also did bad (immoral) things means it may not
be appropriate to present them as 'heroes', especially to those who
may have suffered by their hand.

I understand the toppled statue of Edward Colston will still be on
display in a museum for anyone to see if they wish and I'm sure many
will still celebrate any good things he did, it just won't be 'put on
a pedestal' in a generally public / prominent position.

That's not whitewashing anything, it's just reflecting the feelings of
those who may not appreciate said bad things.

Conversely, don't we [1] actually 'celebrate' the failed attempt to
blow up the Houses of Parliament by burning effigies of a person
involved in the attempt?

Cheers, T i m

[1] Well, not me of course, the wasteful 'celebration' by the
effective setting fire to money and terrifying animals bit.


Is there no end to your stupidity?

On 24/09/2020 15:39, Radio Man wrote:

Is there no end to your stupidity?

You apparently don't agree, but you could have kept that to yourself.
Unless you are going to say precisely what you don't agree with, and
why, it seems really pointless to say anything at all.

As my son says to me occasionally, it's better to say nothing and let
people think you're a fool, than open your mouth and prove it.

On 24/09/2020 13:34, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

A couple of years ago the National Trust painted Easter out of their
Easter celebrations. There was a bit of a row about it at the time.
Seems like nothing changes in that organisation.

--
Spike

On 24/09/2020 14:55:08, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 14:34:49 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Isn't that like saying 'Some of my best mates are black'?

That's quite a sad, irrelevant statement to post.

It is wrong to rewrite and distort history. To correct it, yes.

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of
Jesus any more than blacks should hold present whites for the salve trade.

Both are historic facts/beliefs and they should be embraced as such.
Sometimes we can learn from the past and stops it being reinvented.

On 24/09/2020 14:34, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/


Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Most stately homes (with their formal gardens and less formal parks)
were financed by the sweat of agricultural workers, and, earlier, serfs.

The rest were financed during the industrial revolution by the sweat of
factory workers &c.

That just about wraps the National Trust up.

--
Max Demian

On 24/09/2020 15:52, Spike wrote:
On 24/09/2020 13:34, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

A couple of years ago the National Trust painted Easter out of their
Easter celebrations. There was a bit of a row about it at the time.
Seems like nothing changes in that organisation.


Part of me wishes that I was still a member, so that I could cancel my
subscription - but I did that some time back on another occasion they
were playing silly buggers.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 17:00:58 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2020 14:55:08, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 14:34:49 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Isn't that like saying 'Some of my best mates are black'?

That's quite a sad, irrelevant statement to post.

Only if you don't understand it troll.

It is wrong to rewrite and distort history.

No one is trying to troll.

To correct it, yes.

Or that troll.

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of
Jesus any more than blacks should hold present whites for the salve trade.

Whoosh (troll). You *really* are thick aren't you troll?

Both are historic facts/beliefs and they should be embraced as such.

Of course, and they are.

Sometimes we can learn from the past and stops it being reinvented.

You don't seem able to, the number of times you faceplant here
(troll).

Cheers, T i m

On 24/09/2020 17:21, Max Demian wrote:
On 24/09/2020 14:34, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of
their properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston
Churchills former home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/


Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Most stately homes (with their formal gardens and less formal parks)
were financed by the sweat of agricultural workers, and, earlier, serfs.

The rest were financed during the industrial revolution by the sweat of
factory workers &c.

That just about wraps the National Trust up.

That is what makes this apologising for being white so ridiculous.

On 24/09/2020 18:18, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 17:00:58 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2020 14:55:08, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 14:34:49 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Isn't that like saying 'Some of my best mates are black'?

That's quite a sad, irrelevant statement to post.

Only if you don't understand it troll.

It is wrong to rewrite and distort history.

No one is trying to troll.

To correct it, yes.

Or that troll.

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of
Jesus any more than blacks should hold present whites for the salve trade.

Whoosh (troll). You *really* are thick aren't you troll?

Both are historic facts/beliefs and they should be embraced as such.

Of course, and they are.

Sometimes we can learn from the past and stops it being reinvented.

You don't seem able to, the number of times you faceplant here
(troll).

Cheers, T i m


It should be clear to all who the troll is here!

"Jack Harry Teesdale" wrote in message
...
The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their properties
linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former home Chartwell House.

Which Churchill bought in 1922 and had largely re-built at considerable
expense, borrowing heavily in the process. The house was sold to the
National Trust in 1945 in a purchase financed by a group of friends, over
worries he could no longer afford its upkeep.



michael adams

....

On 24/09/2020 19:00, michael adams wrote:
"Jack Harry Teesdale" wrote in message
...
The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their properties
linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former home Chartwell House.

Which Churchill bought in 1922 and had largely re-built at considerable
expense, borrowing heavily in the process. The house was sold to the
National Trust in 1945 in a purchase financed by a group of friends, over
worries he could no longer afford its upkeep.



michael adams

...



The NT seem to have conveniently forgotten that.

On 24/09/2020 14:55, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 14:34:49 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Isn't that like saying 'Some of my best mates are black'?

This will always be the issue when people do the 'Wrong thing' and
whilst slavery may have been 'legal' then, doesn't mean it was moral
'then', and it's the general morality of people being held up as 'Good
people' that is now being questioned.

So no one would question many of these people *also* did good things,
but the fact that they also did bad (immoral) things means it may not
be appropriate to present them as 'heroes', especially to those who
may have suffered by their hand.

I understand the toppled statue of Edward Colston will still be on
display in a museum for anyone to see if they wish and I'm sure many
will still celebrate any good things he did, it just won't be 'put on
a pedestal' in a generally public / prominent position.

That's not whitewashing anything, it's just reflecting the feelings of
those who may not appreciate said bad things.

Conversely, don't we [1] actually 'celebrate' the failed attempt to
blow up the Houses of Parliament by burning effigies of a person
involved in the attempt?

Cheers, T i m

[1] Well, not me of course, the wasteful 'celebration' by the
effective setting fire to money and terrifying animals bit.


You are a miserable sod aren't you?

Bill

On 24/09/2020 18:16, Farmer Giles wrote:

but I did that some time back on another occasion they
were playing silly buggers.

+1



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 24/09/2020 17:21, Max Demian wrote:
On 24/09/2020 14:34, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of
their properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston
Churchills former home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/


Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Most stately homes (with their formal gardens and less formal parks)
were financed by the sweat of agricultural workers, and, earlier, serfs.

The rest were financed during the industrial revolution by the sweat of
factory workers &c.

That just about wraps the National Trust up.


Better boycott those damn pyramids in Egypt too. All done by slave
labour.

Well I've not seen the latest, but there was never any punches pulled on the
few I have been to in this area. Tour guides are pretty on the ball with
that kind of thing. One has to realise though that a building is guilty of
nothing, and the social norms of society many years ago is going to seem
completely at odds now. That is the whole point of history, to teach us not
to always slip on the same banana skin. You can't destroy the past by
burning all the books.
Brian

--
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jack Harry Teesdale" wrote in message
...
The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/

Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 19:22:57 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

snip

[1] Well, not me of course, the wasteful 'celebration' by the
effective setting fire to money and terrifying animals bit.


You are a miserable sod aren't you?

Ironically, no.

Just because someone doesn't share your idea of 'fun', doesn't mean
they are miserable.

Maybe I'm just a thinker, try to be considerate, would prefer my 'fun'
didn't impact other people negatively.

Now, 'fireworks' might have been fun when I was a kid and setting them
off for the family myself, not since then, nah.

I'd say 'miserable is what you are when you send a few hundred
thousand pounds up in spoke in a short time when that money could make
the last weeks of a kids life more 'fun'.

I believe this years public NYE firework display is cancelled due to
Covid19 so if we get to see 'it' somehow on TV instead, what
percentage of the population would care and how many would watch it in
comfort on the TV in any case?

Cheers, T i m

On 24/09/2020 17:00, Fredxx wrote:

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of
Jesus

Wasn't he killed by the Romans?

"GB" wrote in message ...
On 24/09/2020 17:00, Fredxx wrote:

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of Jesus

Wasn't he killed by the Romans?

The Jewish Priests dobbed him in, on the grounds of unfair competiton.
No overheads etc. Despite "The Life of Brian" the Jews weren't allowed to
just go around stoning anyone they chose. Trying and executing people was
a Roman perogative as it helped demonstrate and maintain their authority.

While in this case also maintaining good community relations.


michael adams

....

williamwright wrote:
On 24/09/2020 14:55, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 14:34:49 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/


Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Isn't that like saying 'Some of my best mates are black'?

This will always be the issue when people do the 'Wrong thing' and
whilst slavery may have been 'legal' then, doesn't mean it was moral
'then', and it's the general morality of people being held up as 'Good
people' that is now being questioned.

So no one would question many of these people *also* did good things,
but the fact that they also did bad (immoral) things means it may not
be appropriate to present them as 'heroes', especially to those who
may have suffered by their hand.

I understand the toppled statue of Edward Colston will still be on
display in a museum for anyone to see if they wish and I'm sure many
will still celebrate any good things he did, it just won't be 'put on
a pedestal' in a generally public / prominent position.

That's not whitewashing anything, it's just reflecting the feelings of
those who may not appreciate said bad things.

Conversely, don't we [1] actually 'celebrate' the failed attempt to
blow up the Houses of Parliament by burning effigies of a person
involved in the attempt?

Cheers, T i m

[1] Well, not me of course, the wasteful 'celebration' by the
effective setting fire to money and terrifying animals bit.


You are a miserable sod aren't you?

No, just moderately sensible it seems to me.

--
Chris Green
·

On 24/09/2020 17:21, Max Demian wrote:
On 24/09/2020 14:34, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of
their properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston
Churchills former home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/


Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Most stately homes (with their formal gardens and less formal parks)
were financed by the sweat of agricultural workers, and, earlier, serfs.

The rest were financed during the industrial revolution by the sweat of
factory workers &c.

all paid for by those dastardly capitalist industrialists creating
employment and generating wealth for multitudes previously existing at a
subsistence living tending their (or more likely their landlords) plot
of land. The *******s!




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 24/09/2020 20:37, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 19:22:57 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

snip

[1] Well, not me of course, the wasteful 'celebration' by the
effective setting fire to money and terrifying animals bit.


You are a miserable sod aren't you?

Ironically, no.

Just because someone doesn't share your idea of 'fun', doesn't mean
they are miserable.

Maybe I'm just a thinker, try to be considerate, would prefer my 'fun'
didn't impact other people negatively.

Now, 'fireworks' might have been fun when I was a kid and setting them
off for the family myself, not since then, nah.

There ya go. *You* are allowed *your* fun. Now everyone else should have
*your* ideals imposed on them.
Yes, when I was young I did all manner of things which were fun at the
time. No doubt, it annoyed the older generation. Now, aged 65, other
young people doing similar annoy me. I tend to look back at *my* youth
and let them have their fun.
It's called tolerance. Look it up.


I'd say 'miserable is what you are when you send a few hundred
thousand pounds up in spoke in a short time when that money could make
the last weeks of a kids life more 'fun'.

I believe this years public NYE firework display is cancelled due to
Covid19 so if we get to see 'it' somehow on TV instead, what
percentage of the population would care and how many would watch it in
comfort on the TV in any case?

Cheers, T i m

On 24/09/2020 20:49, GB wrote:
On 24/09/2020 17:00, Fredxx wrote:

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of
Jesus

Wasn't he killed by the Romans?




At the behest of the Jews IIRC.


--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

"Honest Richard" wrote in message
...

Now, 'fireworks' might have been fun when I was a kid and setting them
off for the family myself, not since then, nah.

There ya go. *You* are allowed *your* fun. Now everyone else should have *your* ideals
imposed on them.

When he was a kid
a ) fireworks were only allowed on Nov 5.

b) So that even if fireworks did scare the **** out of wildlife and
people's pets it was only one night a year. So get over it.

c)_To all but a small minority of kids, the Greta Thumbergs of his
generation, such questions probably never entered their heads.

Now

a) There are fireworks going off nowadays on a more or less random
basis. Except maybe for people who study religious calendars for a hobby

b) Most likely fireworks are still scaring the **** out of wildlife and
peoples pets, only far more often than was the case in the past..

c) Any adult incapable of understanding any of this shouldn't be allowed
anywhere near boxes of matches or lighters; for there own sake as much
as anyone else's,

Yes, when I was young I did all manner of things which were fun at the time.
No doubt, it annoyed the older generation.

Now, aged 65, other young people doing similar annoy me. I tend to look
back at *my* youth and let them have their fun.

Kids dying their hair green or listening to inferior "beat combos" or upsetting
old men by banging on about global warming have never bothered me. It's when they
*want* to conform that people should be worried.

I wonder where Greta (3rd mention) stands on fireworks BTW ?

It's called tolerance. Look it up.

No it isn't. Its called appeasing Noise Nazis !


michael adams

....

michael adams wrote:

"GB" wrote in message ...
On 24/09/2020 17:00, Fredxx wrote:

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of Jesus

Wasn't he killed by the Romans?

The Jewish Priests dobbed him in, on the grounds of unfair competiton.
No overheads etc. Despite "The Life of Brian" the Jews weren't allowed to
just go around stoning anyone they chose. Trying and executing people was
a Roman perogative as it helped demonstrate and maintain their authority.

While in this case also maintaining good community relations.


michael adams

...




You really shouldnt believe the sanitised version. The Romans executed him
because he was a threat to their authority. The Jews were subjugated. He
was a rebel. All of the miracle stuff came later added to attract the
gullible. The Romans executed him but had a PR nightmare when they
converted to Christianity. Fortunately they ran the show and simply rewrote
history. The bit about the Governor giving the people a choice who he
would pardon was a master stroke of rewriting history.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:06:19 +0100, Richard
wrote:

snip

Now, 'fireworks' might have been fun when I was a kid and setting them
off for the family myself, not since then, nah.

There ya go. *You* are allowed *your* fun.

I was allowed to light the fireworks and found that bit (the practical
involvement) 'fun', yes?

Now everyone else should have
*your* ideals imposed on them.

They should? Cool! [1]

Yes, when I was young I did all manner of things which were fun at the
time.

That's interesting ...

No doubt, it annoyed the older generation.

I'm sure it did from what what I know of you from here. Not sure what
that's got to do with anything though?

Now, aged 65, other
young people doing similar annoy me.

So still irrelevant to what I said then?

I tend to look back at *my* youth
and let them have their fun.

Good for you (so do I).

It's called tolerance. Look it up.

Don't need to mate.

..
..
..
..
..

Sorry, did you have a point?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think you are getting me and 'The government' / legislation
mixed up (again).

https://www.gov.uk/fireworks-the-law

On 24/09/2020 20:49:48, GB wrote:
On 24/09/2020 17:00, Fredxx wrote:

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of
Jesus

Wasn't he killed by the Romans?

We're talking semantics here, aren't we? The people in the area are
generally taken to be of Jewish religion and Jewish ethnicity with
instruction from religious leaders to choose Jesus as the one to die.

My post wasn't intended to be a slur on anyone, or any group.

Your posts intimates an element of guilt in order to feel obliged to
respond.

Do you feel the need to protect your guilty ancestors? Perhaps we should
honour Edward Colston all the more as he's white, one of 'us'?

On 24/09/2020 20:37:14, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 19:22:57 +0100, williamwright
wrote:

snip

[1] Well, not me of course, the wasteful 'celebration' by the
effective setting fire to money and terrifying animals bit.


You are a miserable sod aren't you?

Ironically, no.

You don't come across as a happy person. You come across as a fanatic.

"Radio Man" wrote in message ...
michael adams wrote:

"GB" wrote in message ...
On 24/09/2020 17:00, Fredxx wrote:

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing of Jesus

Wasn't he killed by the Romans?

The Jewish Priests dobbed him in, on the grounds of unfair competiton.
No overheads etc. Despite "The Life of Brian" the Jews weren't allowed to
just go around stoning anyone they chose. Trying and executing people was
a Roman perogative as it helped demonstrate and maintain their authority.

While in this case also maintaining good community relations.


michael adams

...




You really shouldn't believe the sanitised version. The Romans executed him
because he was a threat to their authority. The Jews were subjugated. He
was a rebel.

I doubt the sanitised version featured Jewish Priests complaining of
"unfair competition" somehow. That was more my own Larry David version,

All of the miracle stuff came later added to attract the
gullible. The Romans executed him but had a PR nightmare when they
converted to Christianity. Fortunately they ran the show and simply rewrote
history.

And presumably the Romans rewrote the Gospels and St Pauls Epistles as well?

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's;
and to God the things that are God's." [Paul to] Romans 13:1 "Let every person
be in subjection to the governing authorities.

There was a touching story about human gullibility in the news the other day.

There's was is chap in Russia claiming to be the new Christ.
Complete with long hair and beard. Just like in that fake Leonardo that
the Arabs bough for squillions, realised their mistake, and have now
hidden away.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sergei-...siberia-today/

Anyway as a result of the long hair and beard matey has attracted thousands
of followers.

Except that the only "evidence" that Christ ever had long hair and a beard
emerged in the 4th century, and was the standard Byzantine representation
of an Emperor .


michael adams

....

On 25/09/2020 09:10:30, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:06:19 +0100, Richard

snip

It's called tolerance. Look it up.

Don't need to mate.


Like statistics, you don't have a clue about tolerance.

On 24/09/2020 21:28:51, Chris Green wrote:
williamwright wrote:
On 24/09/2020 14:55, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 14:34:49 +0100, Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:

The National Trust have produced a so called 'Shame' list of 93 of their
properties linked to the Slave Trade including Winston Churchills former
home Chartwell House.

https://expressdigest.com/national-t...olonial-links/


Is there no end to their historical 'whitewashing'?

Isn't that like saying 'Some of my best mates are black'?

This will always be the issue when people do the 'Wrong thing' and
whilst slavery may have been 'legal' then, doesn't mean it was moral
'then', and it's the general morality of people being held up as 'Good
people' that is now being questioned.

So no one would question many of these people *also* did good things,
but the fact that they also did bad (immoral) things means it may not
be appropriate to present them as 'heroes', especially to those who
may have suffered by their hand.

I understand the toppled statue of Edward Colston will still be on
display in a museum for anyone to see if they wish and I'm sure many
will still celebrate any good things he did, it just won't be 'put on
a pedestal' in a generally public / prominent position.

That's not whitewashing anything, it's just reflecting the feelings of
those who may not appreciate said bad things.

Conversely, don't we [1] actually 'celebrate' the failed attempt to
blow up the Houses of Parliament by burning effigies of a person
involved in the attempt?

Cheers, T i m

[1] Well, not me of course, the wasteful 'celebration' by the
effective setting fire to money and terrifying animals bit.


You are a miserable sod aren't you?

No, just moderately sensible it seems to me.

Are you Tim's sock?

On 25/09/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 24/09/2020 20:49:48, GB wrote:
On 24/09/2020 17:00, Fredxx wrote:

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the killing
of Jesus

Wasn't he killed by the Romans?

We're talking semantics here, aren't we? The people in the area are
generally taken to be of Jewish religion and Jewish ethnicity with
instruction from religious leaders to choose Jesus as the one to die.

But the Romans were the ones in charge. Crucifixion was their method of
execution. Their soldiers stood guard over the execution, etc. They
didn't have to execute him if they didn't want to.

Jesus was a thorn in the side of the religious establishment, I agree,
but I thought it was a popular vote that Jesus should be the one chosen?
Not my area of expertise at all, I'm afraid, so pardon my ignorance.


Do you feel the need to protect your guilty ancestors?

My Roman ancestors? No, I'm afraid that I rather admitted guilt on their
behalf.

On 25/09/2020 09:47, michael adams wrote:

Anyway as a result of the long hair and beard matey has attracted thousands
of followers.

He was left in peace to carry on for decades, until recently there was
some dispute with local business interests, when suddenly the
authorities became interested in him.

On 24/09/2020 22:23, John Rumm wrote:

all paid for by those dastardly capitalist industrialists creating
employment and generating wealth for multitudes previously existing at a
subsistence living tending their (or more likely their landlords) plot
of land.Â* The *******s!

The industrial revolution must have been a dreadful time for some. As a
skilled hand weaver, you just couldn't make a living competing with a
water or steam powered machine. So, you were forced to come into the
town and take up whatever employment was available, however hazardous
and however low the wage.

On 25/09/2020 10:34:23, GB wrote:
On 25/09/2020 09:44, Fredxx wrote:
On 24/09/2020 20:49:48, GB wrote:
On 24/09/2020 17:00, Fredxx wrote:

We shouldn't hold present Jews any more accountable for the
killing of Jesus

Wasn't he killed by the Romans?

We're talking semantics here, aren't we? The people in the area are
generally taken to be of Jewish religion and Jewish ethnicity with
instruction from religious leaders to choose Jesus as the one to
die.

But the Romans were the ones in charge. Crucifixion was their method
of execution. Their soldiers stood guard over the execution, etc.
They didn't have to execute him if they didn't want to.

Jesus was a thorn in the side of the religious establishment, I
agree, but I thought it was a popular vote that Jesus should be the
one chosen?

Yes, by the people.
So at the very least a joint choice and execution.

Not my area of expertise at all, I'm afraid, so pardon my ignorance.

Do you feel the need to protect your guilty ancestors? Perhaps we
should honour Edward Colston all the more as he's white, one of
'us'?

My Roman ancestors? No, I'm afraid that I rather admitted guilt on
their behalf.

I sense a deflection and denial.

On 25/09/2020 10:44, GB wrote:
On 24/09/2020 22:23, John Rumm wrote:

all paid for by those dastardly capitalist industrialists creating
employment and generating wealth for multitudes previously existing at
a subsistence living tending their (or more likely their landlords)
plot of land.Â* The *******s!

The industrial revolution must have been a dreadful time for some. As a
skilled hand weaver, you just couldn't make a living competing with a
water or steam powered machine. So, you were forced to come into the
town and take up whatever employment was available, however hazardous
and however low the wage.

What drivelling lefty nonsense.

'skilled hand weaver' .

Weaving is a crude boring and repetitive process, which is why it was
one of the first processes to be mechanised.

In the 80s I rented a cottage from a fen farmer. He grew potatoes, half
a dozen of us were all that were left on a fen that had supported a
thousand workers before WWI. One day a primary school teacher brought
her class to see the Farm. One particularly bright and 'woke' pupil said
'how did you get the potatoes before tractors and so on when you just
had horses?' and he replied, 'a hundred people picked 'em by hand'. The
child then asked..' and what would you do if there was no more fossil
fuel and you had to go back to horses?' ...

He paused to consider and looked her in the eye. "I should probably
commit suicide" he replied.


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

In the 80s I rented a cottage from a fen farmer.

He paused to consider and looked her in the eye. "I should probably commit suicide" he
replied.


Another Cheerful Charlie by the looks of things, then.

No wonder the two of you got along so well.

What with that, and that other thing



michael adams

....

Norfolk MP apologises for 'inbreeding' comments

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...liticalnews.uk

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:44:40 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

snip

Your posts intimates an element of guilt in order to feel obliged to
respond.

Now where have we seen that before, eg Fredxx ... ?

https://ibb.co/bW3qXLp

Cheers, T i m

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:49:25 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 25/09/2020 09:10:30, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:06:19 +0100, Richard

snip

It's called tolerance. Look it up.

Don't need to mate.


Like statistics, you don't have a clue about tolerance.

I guess it might depend on what you expect me to be tolerant of?

https://ibb.co/h883FH2

'Live and let live', that's a good saying about tolerance eh?

Cheers, T i m