I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard, but
the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from the
softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water from the normal or
softened tap.


(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with compression
fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

On 07/05/2020 14:21, NY wrote:
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from
the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water from the
normal or softened tap.


(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with compression
fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

Depends on the brew. I know for a fact that Greene King purify their
local water, then add back in all the minerals present in the brewing
water of the brewerys they bought out in the past, to recreate the
proper flavour of the corresponding beers/ales.

If you live in Burton on Trent I guess you use it neat and untouched!

NY wrote:
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from
the softener?

Given that "Burtonizing" brewing water raises the hardness levels, I'd
say the former

NY posted
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from
the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water from the
normal or softened tap.



I'd say it is far more important to make sure the tap water isn't
excessively chlorinated. I had to give up home brew years ago when my
water board (Thames) started putting far too much chlorine in the water,
contaminating just about every batch with fermentation by-products that
had a filthy chemical taste.

--
Algernon

On Thursday, 7 May 2020 14:21:27 UTC+1, NY wrote:
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard, but
the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from the
softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water from the normal or
softened tap.


(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with compression
fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

Heating water knocks most of the hardness out (as limescale)anyway.

On 07/05/2020 15:22, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
NY posted
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water
from the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water
from the normal or softened tap.



I'd say it is far more important to make sure the tap water isn't
excessively chlorinated. I had to give up home brew years ago when my
water board (Thames) started putting far too much chlorine in the water,
contaminating just about every batch with fermentation by-products that
had a filthy chemical taste.

But you boiled your wort didn't you? No chlorine should survive that.

On 07/05/2020 14:30, Andy Bennet wrote:
..

Depends on the brew. I know for a fact that Greene King purify their
local water, then add back in all the minerals present in the brewing
water of the brewerys they bought out in the past, to recreate the
proper flavour of the corresponding beers/ales.

If you live in Burton on Trent I guess you use it neat and untouched!

But, IMO, Greene King beers are some that I dislike (taste wise) most.
To me they have an astringent, almost artificial, beer taste.

While taste is down to personal preferences I do enjoy a range of
different beer styles with a preference to hoppy tasting beers rather
than malty tasting beers.

Water for beer
https://www.beerdaybritain.co.uk/how...ew-beer/water/

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 07/05/2020 15:22, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
NY posted
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water
from the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water
from the normal or softened tap.



I'd say it is far more important to make sure the tap water isn't
excessively chlorinated. I had to give up home brew years ago when my
water board (Thames) started putting far too much chlorine in the water,
contaminating just about every batch with fermentation by-products that
had a filthy chemical taste.



The chlorine should boil of if just left for 24 hours or if you boil the
water.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

newshound posted
On 07/05/2020 15:22, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
NY posted
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly
hard, but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen


Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water
from the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water
from the normal or softened tap.


I'd say it is far more important to make sure the tap water isn't
excessively chlorinated. I had to give up home brew years ago when my
water board (Thames) started putting far too much chlorine in the
water, contaminating just about every batch with fermentation
by-products that had a filthy chemical taste.

But you boiled your wort didn't you? No chlorine should survive that.

I boiled the malt extract and sugar. Not the 40 pints of tap water I put
in afterwards.

--
Algernon

On 07/05/2020 14:21, NY wrote:
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from
the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water from the
normal or softened tap.

I would try it with normal tap water first... however:

(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with compression
fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

"Water Softener" can be a bit of a loose term.

A true water softener works on an ion exchange principle and swaps the
calcium ions in the water with sodium ones. These require topping up
with salt from time to time so that they can flush their ion exchange
matrix with saline to "regenerate" it. Systems like these have a cost of
operation, but do give actual softened water. The treated water will not
deposit scale either when heated or on evaporation.

The next step down are phosphate dosing systems (combimate et al). These
add a tiny amount of food grade phosphate to the water, by passing it
through a pile of phosphate balls/crystals. They don't actually soften
the water, but the treatment does make the water less likely to deposit
scale when heated. Hence they protect boilers and heat exchangers, but
water will still leave scale when it evaporates from a surface.

At the bottom of the chain are the magnetic and electronic devices. Its
questionable if these actually achieve anything at all.

So from a beer brewing point of view, the first option may give a
different flavour to the beer - so try it both ways and see what you
prefer. The other options are unlikely to make any difference, unless
doing it on an industrial scale, when the phosphate dosing system may
keep boiling vessels easier to keep clean and scale free.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/05/2020 16:10, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
newshound posted
On 07/05/2020 15:22, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
NY posted
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly
hard,Â* but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water
from the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water
from the normal or softened tap.


Â*I'd say it is far more important to make sure the tap water isn't
excessively chlorinated. I had to give up home brew years ago when my
water board (Thames) started putting far too much chlorine in the
water,Â* contaminating just about every batch with fermentation
by-products thatÂ* had a filthy chemical taste.

But you boiled your wort didn't you? No chlorine should survive that.

I boiled the malt extract and sugar. Not the 40 pints of tap water I put
in afterwards.

Just leaving the water to stand for a day before starting the process,
should allow most of the chlorine a chance to escape.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/05/2020 14:31, Andy Burns wrote:
NY wrote:
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water
from the softener?

The softened water will have more sodium in it. If your water is very
very hard then a mix of the two might have less calcium scum.

Given that "Burtonizing" brewing water raises the hardness levels, I'd
say the former

The right amount of hardness is probably the key to good beer. We never
did anything special on moderately hard water when I was a student.

It is certainly the key to good coffee. I went to a chemistry lecture on
coffee with a barrista tasting session afterwards with the same very
high end coffee made up with three different grades of water.

1. Ultrapure deionised (too soft)
2. Newcastle tap water (almost perfect)
3. Evian Water (too hard)

#1 was very thin and lacklustre.
#3 was oily with free bases and caught the back of your throat

#2 was the just right Goldilocks version.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 07/05/2020 15:53, alan_m wrote:
On 07/05/2020 14:30, Andy Bennet wrote:
.

Depends on the brew. I know for a fact that Greene King purify their
local water, then add back in all the minerals present in the brewing
water of the brewerys they bought out in the past, to recreate the
proper flavour of the corresponding beers/ales.

If you live in Burton on Trent I guess you use it neat and untouched!

But, IMO, Greene King beers are some that I dislike (taste wise) most.
To me they have an astringent, almost artificial, beer taste.

While taste is down to personal preferences I do enjoy a range of
different beer styles with a preference to hoppy tasting beers rather
than malty tasting beers.

Water for beer
https://www.beerdaybritain.co.uk/how...ew-beer/water/


As well as their own beers - GK IPA, Abbot etc, which I too also have a
distaste for, they also brew Olde Trip, Speckled Hen and variants,
Ruddles County and Best, Ridleys Old Bob and a few others - all at the
Bury St. Edmunds brewery. They all have their own special brewing waters
formulated on site as I mentioned.

On 07/05/2020 16:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2020 15:44:50 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 07/05/2020 15:22, Algernon Goss-Custard wrote:
NY posted
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water
from the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water
from the normal or softened tap.



I'd say it is far more important to make sure the tap water isn't
excessively chlorinated. I had to give up home brew years ago when my
water board (Thames) started putting far too much chlorine in the
water,
contaminating just about every batch with fermentation by-products that
had a filthy chemical taste.

But you boiled your wort didn't you? No chlorine should survive that.

Unless you are using a kit.

If you are concerned about chlorine, just leaving water to stand for 24
hours is usually recommended

Ah yes, it is a long time since I made it from a kit.

On 07/05/2020 16:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/05/2020 14:21, NY wrote:
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water
from the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water
from the normal or softened tap.

I would try it with normal tap water first... however:

(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with
compression fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

"Water Softener" can be a bit of a loose term.

A true water softener works on an ion exchange principle and swaps the
calcium ions in the water with sodium ones. These require topping up
with salt from time to time so that they can flush their ion exchange
matrix with saline to "regenerate" it. Systems like these have a cost of
operation, but do give actual softened water. The treated water will not
deposit scale either when heated or on evaporation.

The next step down are phosphate dosing systems (combimate et al). These
add a tiny amount of food grade phosphate to the water, by passing it
through a pile of phosphate balls/crystals. They don't actually soften
the water, but the treatment does make the water less likely to deposit
scale when heated. Hence they protect boilers and heat exchangers, but
water will still leave scale when it evaporates from a surface.

At the bottom of the chain are the magnetic and electronic devices. Its
questionable if these actually achieve anything at all.

So from a beer brewing point of view, the first option may give a
different flavour to the beer - so try it both ways and see what you
prefer. The other options are unlikely to make any difference, unless
doing it on an industrial scale, when the phosphate dosing system may
keep boiling vessels easier to keep clean and scale free.


It's certainly always reckoned the hard water at Burton on Trent is an
important part of the flavour. When the wort is boiled the temporary
hardness will be removed, i.e. Ca and Mg ions with the bicarbonate /
carbonate. The permanent hardness (sulphate) is left, with calcium,
magnesium, and some sodium ions.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 07 May 2020 14:21:40 +0100, NY wrote:

I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from
the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water from the
normal or softened tap.


(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with compression
fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

As with most things to do with food and drink, there's a lot of personal
preference involved. Hardness in and of itself won't affect the process
much so it's really a question of what taste *you* (and any significant
others ) prefer.

The beauty of homebrewing (as with all home cooking) is you get to
experiment and can arrive at what you like. Which may or may not be
commercially available.

Just make sure you sanitise everything, and above all have patience.

Are you bottling for a secondary ferment, or just serving from the keg ?

I've got a keg. Depending on results I may try bottling at a later date.

It's the first time I've tried brewing. I'll be intrigued to taste the
results. Yes, I'll try to keep everything scrupulously clean - and make sure
I wash away the steriliser solution afterwards.

As a matter of interest, is the steriliser solution disodium metasilicate,
sodium carbonate, troclosene sodium (what's that?) likely to be OK in a
septic tank? We're not on mains drainage so we always need to check with
things that go down the drain (eg washing up liquid / dishwasher tablets,
toilet cleaner - no bleach!).

The tap water is from underground aquifers as opposed to reservoirs (I'm in
East Yorkshire, near Bridlington). I've not smelled any strong chlorine
smell when I've run water into the sink or the bath (presumably it would
already have boiled off hot water but would still be present in cold water),
but I'll remember the trick of leaving it to stand for a while, if I can
find a clean vessel to put it into, in addition to the brewing vessel. I
suppose I could put it into the keg to stand before pouring it into the
brewing cylinder.


I'm sure when my dad tried home brewing he kept it in the airing cupboard,
but that would kill the yeast because the temperature could go above 25 deg
C. I remember he put one batch on top of the deep freeze and wondered why he
couldn't get it to clear. Then it dawned on us: the vibration of the freezer
compressor motor was enough to keep the yeast in suspension instead of
allowing it to precipitate out. ;-)

NY wrote

I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied,
or to use water from the softener?

Hard is fine.

I can't detect any difference in taste of
water from the normal or softened tap.

The taste will be swamped by the taste of the beer.

(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with compression
fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

On 07/05/2020 17:10, Andy Bennet wrote:

As well as their own beers - GK IPA, Abbot etc, which I too also have a
distaste for, they also brew Olde Trip, Speckled Hen and variants,
Ruddles County and Best, Ridleys Old Bob and a few others - all at the
Bury St. Edmunds brewery. They all have their own special brewing waters
formulated on site as I mentioned.


I'm aware of what beers they brew all at the same site and pretending
that they come from different breweries.

Do you really believe that they follow the original recipes for the
brands/breweries they have taken over and that the accountants have not
enforced standardisation?

There was a campaign to try and save Morland brewery and Old Speckled
Hen appeared in many free houses at the time. I personally thought that
the beer wasn't worth saving and I've had the GK version since and have
not changed my opinion.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
There was a campaign to try and save Morland brewery and Old Speckled Hen
appeared in many free houses at the time. I personally thought that the
beer wasn't worth saving and I've had the GK version since and have not
changed my opinion.

Yes, I'm inclined to agree. I like most beers (as opposed to lagers) but Old
Speckled Hen is one that I never really liked. I suppose if I was Jilly
Goolden (or someone of her ilk - I know she's a wine, not beer, connoisseur)
I'd come out with some pretentious adjectives to describe its taste, but
"washing up water" probably comes close enough. ;-) Perhaps I just had a
bad pint...

Mind you, I haven't tasted (or even brewed) my efforts yet... What
adjectives will I use to describe its flavour?

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 07 May 2020 14:21:40 +0100, NY wrote:

I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from
the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water from the
normal or softened tap.


(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with compression
fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

As with most things to do with food and drink, there's a lot of personal
preference involved. Hardness in and of itself won't affect the process
much so it's really a question of what taste *you* (and any significant
others ) prefer.

The beauty of homebrewing (as with all home cooking) is you get to
experiment and can arrive at what you like. Which may or may not be
commercially available.

Just make sure you sanitise everything,

I dont bother and have never had a
bad brew and have done over 300 now.

and above all have patience.

Are you bottling for a secondary ferment, or just serving from the keg ?

I've got a keg. Depending on results I may try bottling at a later date.

It's the first time I've tried brewing. I'll be intrigued to taste the
results.

I'll never go back to commercial beer unless
I end up too decrepit to move the crates of
bottled beer around and even then I will
likely just get one of the neighbours kids
to do that bit for me.

Yes, I'll try to keep everything scrupulously clean

It isnt really necessary. I obviously do wash the
brewing barrels out after the mega brewing
run I do every year or so but that all I do.

and make sure I wash away the steriliser solution afterwards.

As a matter of interest, is the steriliser solution disodium metasilicate,
sodium carbonate, troclosene sodium (what's that?) likely to be OK in a
septic tank?

Likely not, but its easy enough to tip that into
a bucket and just tip it onto a bare patch of dirt.

Might be ok in the septic tank tho
given that is pretty dilute by then.

We're not on mains drainage so we always need to check with things that go
down the drain (eg washing up liquid / dishwasher tablets, toilet
cleaner - no bleach!).

The tap water is from underground aquifers as opposed to reservoirs (I'm
in East Yorkshire, near Bridlington). I've not smelled any strong chlorine
smell when I've run water into the sink or the bath (presumably it would
already have boiled off hot water but would still be present in cold
water), but I'll
remember the trick of leaving it to stand for a while, if I can
find a clean vessel to put it into, in addition to the brewing vessel. I
suppose I could put it into the keg to stand before pouring it into the
brewing cylinder.

I'm sure when my dad tried home brewing he kept it in the airing cupboard,
but that would kill the yeast because the temperature could go above 25
deg C.

That doesnt kill the yeast. We do get up to 30C at times
and the beer keeps brewing fine. It not ideal taste of the
beer wise, but the yeast keeps going fine.

I remember he put one batch on top of the deep freeze and wondered why he
couldn't get it to clear. Then it dawned on us: the vibration of the
freezer compressor motor was enough to keep the yeast in suspension
instead of allowing it to precipitate out. ;-)

On 07/05/2020 19:16, alan_m wrote:


I'm aware of what beers they brew all at the same site and pretending
that they come from different breweries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqfL...=youtu.be&t=85



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 8 May 2020 03:59:38 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

Was there not somebody using rain water suitable zapped with uv or
something?
I don't drink so only heard it in passing.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andy Bennet" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 07/05/2020 14:21, NY wrote:
I'm about to try brewing beer from a kit. Our tapwater is fairly hard,
but the house has a water softener (*) for one of the kitchen taps.

Is it better to use hard water, as it is supplied, or to use water from
the softener? I can't detect any difference in taste of water from the
normal or softened tap.


(*) One of those inline cylindrical ones that is fitted with compression
fittings into a branch of copper piping off the rising main.

Depends on the brew. I know for a fact that Greene King purify their local
water, then add back in all the minerals present in the brewing water of
the brewerys they bought out in the past, to recreate the proper flavour
of the corresponding beers/ales.

If you live in Burton on Trent I guess you use it neat and untouched!

On Fri, 8 May 2020 05:00:56 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread


--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/