I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses.
This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me
communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around
this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet. I use,
and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an internet provider

On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 12:10:29 PM UTC, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses.
This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me
communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around
this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet. I use,
and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an internet provider

I could be wrong but I would have thought that Plusnet would limit the use of their SMTP server to their own customers.

I have a similar setup in that I am a BT customer and I have my own domain which I use for emails in conjunction with BT's email system.
Incoming emails are forwarded from the company hosting my domain to my BT email address. I download my emails from the BT email server. Responses/outgoing emails are sent to BT's email server which has an alias for my domain email. This basically lets me pretend to be someone (from a BT email point of view).

I'm not quite sure what you mean by not being able to communicate with hotmail addresses.

I havent had any problem sending emails from BT (using my domain alias) to hotmail addresses.

I have had incoming emails being discarded by BT. Their spam filtering seems to be a bit over the top. I ended up in the middle of an argument between BT and the domain hosting company. I was literally in the middle was neither support team were prepared to talk directly to each other. Various DNS settings were changed which seemed to help a little bit but I still have some missing emails.

The best cure I found was to add each incoming email address to the BT email whitelist (accessible from the Web GUI). A bit of a pain but it seemed to help.

Alan

The Natural Philosopher posted
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses.
This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me
communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around
this problem?

Are you sure it's BT and not Hotmail that's stopping you sending to
Hotmail addresses? What are the symptoms? What SMTP server are you
using?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

He's just said he's moved from Plusnet, so he can no longer use the
Plusnet SMTP server.

--
Evremonde

On 17/12/2019 12:10, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses.
This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me
communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around
this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet. I use,
and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an internet provider

My bad, you switched to BT FROM plus net.

Ah. And are you using BT's relay?



--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On 17/12/2019 12:34, AlanC wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 12:10:29 PM UTC, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain
so that when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email
addresses. This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not
let me communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a
way around this problem?

Why are you using BT at all? Use PlusNets smtp relay for
outgoing. = smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet. I
use, and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an internet
provider

I could be wrong but I would have thought that Plusnet would limit
the use of their SMTP server to their own customers.


As I say I miserad that as moving from BT TO plusnet.

I simply couldnt imagine anyone moving TO BT.


I have a similar setup in that I am a BT customer and I have my own
domain which I use for emails in conjunction with BT's email system.
Incoming emails are forwarded from the company hosting my domain to
my BT email address. I download my emails from the BT email server.
Responses/outgoing emails are sent to BT's email server which has an
alias for my domain email. This basically lets me pretend to be
someone (from a BT email point of view).


There can be issues sending via BT using a foreign (to BT) email address.

But it is not clear

(a) whether the problem is sending or receiving
(b) How mail is being sent, or received.



--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On 17/12/2019 12:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 12:10, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so
that when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email
addresses. This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let
me communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way
around this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet. I
use, and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an internet
provider

My bad, you switched to BT FROM plus net.

Ah. And are you using BT's relay?

And why is the use of Thunderbird or any other particular email client
relevant?

Well sending direct from BTs web server using their webmail does not
invlove an SMTP relay...



--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 10:05:56 +0000, Broadback
wrote:

I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

I think there may be two different variants of BT Mail. I was switched
some years ago to a different system and I've no notification since
that I've been switched again. My URL is
https://ux.btmail.bt.com/cp/index-ru....10.1#app/mail

In article ,
Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

I too have my own domain. But not Hotmail.

Are you sure your POP details are all correct? The local host may be
totally different to that in the email address, as may the server.

With my BT email, they are and mail.btinternet.com
My own domain, very different.

I think it also required a mandatory password, unlike by previous ISP.

--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/12/2019 12:10, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses.
This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me
communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around
this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet. I use,
and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an internet provider

That may give you problems.

In order to have good delivery, you need to

(a) Use your ISP's SMTP relay (if sending @[your isp] addresses) or
(b) Use a SMTP relay that isn't on any RBL lists (see C below) and
matches any SPF records for your domain that you may have. If you have
no SPF records, that may give problems at times, but not that often.
(c) choose a half competent ISP (BT aren't so bad, but not that
brilliant either).
(d) Probably use SMTP-Auth, these days.

Hotmail (and outlook.com) are very, very keen on blocking mail that
looks even slightly spammy, and in particular for being real sticklers
for correct reverse DNS and SPF. One domain I'm involved with at work
has regular issues because (for reasons I won't bore you with) I cannot
set up SPF properly.

To use BT's relay, you used to have to authorise your domain on a
webpage somewhere. No idea if that still is the case.

Do you get any non-delivery reports back? You might not because hotmail
is again notorious for not sending them, probably to reduce backscatter.

On 17/12/2019 14:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

I too have my own domain. But not Hotmail.

Are you sure your POP details are all correct? The local host may be
totally different to that in the email address, as may the server.

With my BT email, they are and mail.btinternet.com
My own domain, very different.

I think it also required a mandatory password, unlike by previous ISP.

Thank you all for your replies, but the questions are to involved for
me. :-((

On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

You are probably doing something wrong. There is an issue that some BT
headers look like forgeries to their own email system so that people on
BT cannot always send emails to each other. You have to be unlucky to
encounter this intermittent problem but I have seen it happen.

I can't see any reason why BT should blacklist sending to hotmail
addresses - how exactly does it fail and with what error msg?

I can only assume you enjoy paying more to get customer service slowly
from half way around the world to move from Plusnet to BT. They are both
nominally the same ISP only with different external skins.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 17/12/2019 12:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 12:10, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so
that when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email
addresses. This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let
me communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way
around this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet. I
use, and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an internet
provider

My bad, you switched to BT FROM plus net.

Ah. And are you using BT's relay?

And why is the use of Thunderbird or any other particular email client
relevant?

Thunderbird does have the odd bug if the mail server is tardy in
responding or there is a mismatch in security certificates.



--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tuesday, 17 December 2019 16:52:45 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

You are probably doing something wrong. There is an issue that some BT
headers look like forgeries to their own email system so that people on
BT cannot always send emails to each other. You have to be unlucky to
encounter this intermittent problem but I have seen it happen.

I can't see any reason why BT should blacklist sending to hotmail
addresses - how exactly does it fail and with what error msg?

I can only assume you enjoy paying more to get customer service slowly
from half way around the world to move from Plusnet to BT. They are both
nominally the same ISP only with different external skins.

We too have moved from Plusnet to BT.

Plusnet would not offer a connection using FTTP. Not at all. So, given we have just had FTTP made available and our ADSL was appalling[1], we had to find an ISP that does - and there are not many.

[1] Appalling meaning a good day gave 4 Mbps download. A poor day gave 0.07 Mbps. A bad day gave 0.0 Mbps. Hence moving to FTTP was essential.

On 17/12/2019 19:38, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 December 2019 16:52:45 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

You are probably doing something wrong. There is an issue that some BT
headers look like forgeries to their own email system so that people on
BT cannot always send emails to each other. You have to be unlucky to
encounter this intermittent problem but I have seen it happen.

I can't see any reason why BT should blacklist sending to hotmail
addresses - how exactly does it fail and with what error msg?

I can only assume you enjoy paying more to get customer service slowly
from half way around the world to move from Plusnet to BT. They are both
nominally the same ISP only with different external skins.

We too have moved from Plusnet to BT.

Plusnet would not offer a connection using FTTP. Not at all. So, given we have just had FTTP made available and our ADSL was appalling[1], we had to find an ISP that does - and there are not many.

Really? IDNET certainly do.


[1] Appalling meaning a good day gave 4 Mbps download. A poor day gave 0.07 Mbps. A bad day gave 0.0 Mbps. Hence moving to FTTP was essential.

Then you had an unresolved cable fault.


--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?


Don't know if your problem is the same but when I had problems with mail
from BT addresses Mythic Beasts told me:
"you have greylisting turned on for your domain. This is a spam
filtering system that works by delaying mail from unknown senders and
servers. This works because most legitimate mail servers will retry
after a few minutes, whereas spammers won't.

Unfortunately, it seems that BT are very slow to retry, hence the delay
that you're seeing.

Generally we no longer recommend greylisting, as we find the delays that
can be caused are more of a nuisance than the spam that it prevents."






--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

polygonum wrote:

Plusnet would not offer a connection using FTTP. Not at all.

Really?

Yes, they did have an FTTP trial programme, and those who got onto it
can stay on it, but they no longer accept trial participants, and have
no FTTP service for sale, hopefuly they will change this once FTTP
rollout increases ...

DJC wrote:

Mythic Beasts told me: "you have greylisting turned on for your domain"

But if it's greylisting in this case, then it's not Broadback who would
need to disable it for his domain, rather hotmail who would need to
disable it for theirs ...

I have no idea whether hotmail does use greylisting, but obviously there
would be zero chance of asking them to turn it off if they did.

I gave up on hotmail some time ago on virgin. It was flakey to say the least
and for some weird reason I could not enable pop3 even though it was allowed
previously.
Now I can send to and from hotmail addresses from virgin ones but my own
hotmail account never did work again. I was on one of the bt piggy backers
before.
i have just had issues with Gmail as my new hub on Virgin seems to have
made Gmail think I'm a hacker on my own account. Bah humbug.

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Broadback" wrote in message
...
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that when
I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This has
worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with Hotmail
addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

I still don't know why people would leave plusnet for Batty telecockups in
the first place.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

"Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)" posted
I gave up on hotmail some time ago on virgin. It was flakey to say the least
and for some weird reason I could not enable pop3 even though it was allowed
previously.
Now I can send to and from hotmail addresses from virgin ones but my own
hotmail account never did work again. I was on one of the bt piggy backers
before.
i have just had issues with Gmail as my new hub on Virgin seems to have
made Gmail think I'm a hacker on my own account. Bah humbug.


Gmail is the worst offender in this respect IME. If the sender's SMTP
does not "match" their "From" address [using Gmail's own interpretation
of "match"], they delay the message by a variable and sometimes
unlimited time.

I suspect this is little to do with spam. Rather that they are trying to
force as many people as possible to use Gmail's own SMTP servers, so
they can collect more personal information to sell.

--
Evremonde

On 17/12/2019 17:45, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 12:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 12:10, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so
that when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email
addresses. This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not
let me communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a
way around this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet. I
use, and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an internet
provider

My bad, you switched to BT FROM plus net.

Ah. And are you using BT's relay?

And why is the use of Thunderbird or any other particular email client
relevant?

Thunderbird does have the odd bug if the mail server is tardy in
responding or there is a mismatch in security certificates.

What are security certificates?

The certificate that assures you that you are talking securely to your
selected mailserver and not to some man-in-the-middle attacker.

The bug is that in certain circumstances the security settings override
can get lost. I think the trigger is a timeout somewhere in the chain.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 17/12/2019 20:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 19:38, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 December 2019 16:52:45 UTC, Martin BrownÂ* wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:

I can't see any reason why BT should blacklist sending to hotmail
addresses - how exactly does it fail and with what error msg?

Still unanswered by the OP


I can only assume you enjoy paying more to get customer service slowly
from half way around the world to move from Plusnet to BT. They are both
nominally the same ISP only with different external skins.

We too have moved from Plusnet to BT.

Plusnet would not offer a connection using FTTP. Not at all. So, given
we have just had FTTP made available and our ADSL was appalling[1], we
had to find an ISP that does - and there are not many.

Really? IDNET certainly do.

It could be that as yet there isn't enough demand and that OpenWretch
charge other ISPs usurious prices for the fibre installation and access.


[1] Appalling meaning a good day gave 4 Mbps download. A poor day gave
0.07 Mbps. A bad day gave 0.0 Mbps. Hence moving to FTTP was essential.

Then you had an unresolved cable fault.

Not uncommon in rural areas. My figures are not dissimilar although on a
very good dry day I can get as high as 6Mbps. That is on basic ADSL 2+
since there is no FTTC close enough to me to work. 2Mbps is more typical
for the average household here - I have a particularly good line.

Amazing what tea and biscuits will do for telcom field staff morale ;-)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

The Marquis Saint Evremonde wrote:

"Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)" posted
I gave up on hotmail some time ago on virgin. It was flakey to say the least
and for some weird reason I could not enable pop3 even though it was allowed
previously.
Now I can send to and from hotmail addresses from virgin ones but my own
hotmail account never did work again. I was on one of the bt piggy backers
before.
i have just had issues with Gmail as my new hub on Virgin seems to have
made Gmail think I'm a hacker on my own account. Bah humbug.


Gmail is the worst offender in this respect IME. If the sender's SMTP
does not "match" their "From" address [using Gmail's own interpretation
of "match"], they delay the message by a variable and sometimes
unlimited time.

I suspect this is little to do with spam. Rather that they are trying to
force as many people as possible to use Gmail's own SMTP servers, so
they can collect more personal information to sell.

Back in the day, ISPs would commonly hijack port 25 SMTP traffic
and silently push it through their own SMTP server instead as an
anti-spam measure. Even though nowadays other ports are used,
is that not still the case?

--
^Ï^ My pet rock Gordon just is.

On 18/12/2019 09:31, Sn!pe wrote:
Back in the day, ISPs would commonly hijack port 25 SMTP traffic
and silently push it through their own SMTP server instead as an
anti-spam measure. Even though nowadays other ports are used,
is that not still the case?

I think only BT has the power to do that. And possibly mobile operators.

No one lese wnats to spend that much CPU power doing something that is
essentually breaking the internet protocols.

No: if you try and sent to an arbitraty port 25 you can.

It may not accept your traffic, though.


--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:

I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

It might be that you have a SPF (Sender Policy Framework) record
configured in your domain that specifies which mail servers can be
trusted as legitimate ones for the domain. This is generally a good
thing, since it makes it harder for people to spoof email purporting to
come from your domain.

However if the SPF record does not include the SMTP server you are now
using to relay messages, then your mail will tend to look more "spammy"
to the recipients, and has a higher chance of being discarded before
delivery.

(You can normally see this in the headers of an email received from you
- so send yourself a message and look at the headers (CTRL + U in
thunderbird. See if you can see a line in the header starting "X-SPF:
Received-SPF:")

You can check your domain to see if it has a SPF record. Open a command
prompt, and type

nslookup

That will drop you into the DNS lookup utility.

Type:

set type=txt

Now type your domain name without any leading www etc:

example.com

If there are no text records in the domain entry, then it will just
display basic information about what the name servers etc. If there is a
SPF record, then you will see a line that will start with "v=spf1 mx"

If there is a SPF record, then you will need to make sure it matches the
system you are using for sending mail.

There is more details on SPF he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Policy_Framework







--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/12/2019 20:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 19:38, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 December 2019 16:52:45 UTC, Martin BrownÂ* wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

You are probably doing something wrong. There is an issue that some BT
headers look like forgeries to their own email system so that people on
BT cannot always send emails to each other. You have to be unlucky to
encounter this intermittent problem but I have seen it happen.

I can't see any reason why BT should blacklist sending to hotmail
addresses - how exactly does it fail and with what error msg?

I can only assume you enjoy paying more to get customer service slowly
from half way around the world to move from Plusnet to BT. They are both
nominally the same ISP only with different external skins.

We too have moved from Plusnet to BT.

Plusnet would not offer a connection using FTTP. Not at all. So, given
we have just had FTTP made available and our ADSL was appalling[1], we
had to find an ISP that does - and there are not many.

Really? IDNET certainly do.

+1 IDNet FTTP has been flawless for me since installation.


Other than BT, there are only a handful of ISPs that offer FTTP at the
moment. They tend to be the more specialist / smaller ones.

There is a list he

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broa...fttp-providers



[1] Appalling meaning a good day gave 4 Mbps download. A poor day gave
0.07 Mbps. A bad day gave 0.0 Mbps. Hence moving to FTTP was essential.

Then you had an unresolved cable fault.

Had similar here - the unresolved cable "fault" was that there was 6km
of the stuff!



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 18/12/2019 09:53, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 17:45, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 12:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 12:10, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain
so that when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email
addresses. This has worked fine in the past but now BT will not
let me communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a
way around this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet.
I use, and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an
internet provider

My bad, you switched to BT FROM plus net.

Ah. And are you using BT's relay?

And why is the use of Thunderbird or any other particular email client
relevant?

Thunderbird does have the odd bug if the mail server is tardy in
responding or there is a mismatch in security certificates.

What are security certificates?

The certificate that assures you that you are talking securely to your
selected mailserver and not to some man-in-the-middle attacker.

Is there an RFC for these?

https://comodosslstore.com/resources...ificate-works/

I certainly dont use them - its more an end to end thing. I suspect he
is more thinking of other ways in which 'kosher' relays announce themselves

And of course its common practice to sign in to a relay to send email.

I had to implement that in order to be able to use my own mail relay
from anywhere in the world. Without being abused by spammers.

I get upwards of 100 attacks an hour from people trying...the amusing
things is thay use the same form of password as big mail relays like BT
used - the username is of the form 'name@domain'. Mine however are not
of that form at all.


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 18/12/2019 10:30, John Rumm wrote:
Really? IDNET certainly do.

+1 IDNet FTTP has been flawless for me since installation.


Other than BT, there are only a handful of ISPs that offer FTTP at the
moment. They tend to be the more specialist / smaller ones.

There is a list he

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broa...fttp-providers

Good lord. Thats not many is it? But the three old favourites of A&A
IDNET asnd ZEN are all there.


I wonder why the others havent bothered?


When we all compared how much we paid for broadband IDNET were as cheap
as anyone else.




[1] Appalling meaning a good day gave 4 Mbps download. A poor day
gave 0.07 Mbps. A bad day gave 0.0 Mbps. Hence moving to FTTP was
essential.

Then you had an unresolved cable fault.

Had similar here - the unresolved cable "fault" was that there was 6km
of the stuff!


Nope. Its very unilikely that noise levels will give you a 0-4Mpbs range
on a daily basis on a clean cable.

Its far more likely there were bad joints and crackles on it.

--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On 18/12/2019 10:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/12/2019 09:53, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 17:45, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 12:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/12/2019 12:10, Broadback wrote:
On 17/12/2019 11:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 10:05, Broadback wrote:
I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain
so that when I move internet supplier I can keep the same
email addresses. This has worked fine in the past but now BT
will not let me communicate with Hotmail addresses. Why, and
is there a way around this problem?

Why are you using BT at all?
Use PlusNets smtp relay for outgoing.
= smtp.plus.net

Because I wish to. I never used Plusnet other than for internet.
I use, and have for years, Thunderbird, it is only BT as an
internet provider

My bad, you switched to BT FROM plus net.

Ah. And are you using BT's relay?

And why is the use of Thunderbird or any other particular email
client
relevant?

Thunderbird does have the odd bug if the mail server is tardy in
responding or there is a mismatch in security certificates.

What are security certificates?

The certificate that assures you that you are talking securely to
your selected mailserver and not to some man-in-the-middle attacker.

Is there an RFC for these?

Dunno, but it's essentially like the relationship between HTTP and
HTTPS: it's just SMTP wrapped inside a secure transport. It's becoming
increasingly commonplace now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMTPS


https://comodosslstore.com/resources...ificate-works/

I certainly dont use them - its more an end to end thing. I suspect he
is more thinking of other ways in which 'kosher' relays announce themselves

And of course its common practice to sign in to a relay to send email
I had to implement that in order to be able to use my own mail relay
from anywhere in the world. Without being abused by spammers.

Yes. In the old days it was commonplace to have an open relay, but the
spammers misused that a lot. After that, it became common to limit
relaying to "local" IPs- either your LAN, or an ISP's customer. Nowadays
SMTP-Auth (and often over TLS) is the way many ISPs do it.

On 18/12/2019 10:30, John Rumm wrote:
On 17/12/2019 20:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/12/2019 19:38, polygonum_on_google wrote:

[1] Appalling meaning a good day gave 4 Mbps download. A poor day
gave 0.07 Mbps. A bad day gave 0.0 Mbps. Hence moving to FTTP was
essential.

Then you had an unresolved cable fault.

Had similar here - the unresolved cable "fault" was that there was 6km
of the stuff!

Probably with plenty of bad joints often flooded with brackish water if
our local configuration is anything to go by. They sometimes upgrade
exceptionally bad lengths of cable but there is neither rhyme nor reason
to what gets done. They only do the bare minimum they can get away with.

Rural telecoms like the rural mail service is simply not profitable.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 18/12/2019 07:05, Andy Burns wrote:
DJC wrote:

Mythic Beasts told me: "you have greylisting turned on for your domain"

But if it's greylisting in this case, then it's not Broadback who would
need to disable it for his domain, rather hotmail who would need to
disable it for theirs ...

I have no idea whether hotmail does use greylisting, but obviously there
would be zero chance of asking them to turn it off if they did.

Hotmail will not budge an inch from their published policies, ever, IMO.

Anyway, if it's greylisting, surely they should accept the mail at a
second/third attempt?

On 18/12/2019 10:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/12/2019 09:31, Sn!pe wrote:
Back in the day, ISPs would commonly hijack port 25 SMTP traffic
and silently push it through their own SMTP server instead as an
anti-spam measure.Â* Even though nowadays other ports are used,
is that not still the case?

I think only BT has the power to do that. And possibly mobile operators.


BT at one time used to block TCP/25 to anywhere but their own SMTP
servers for domestic customers. Not sure if that's still the case.

On 18/12/2019 10:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/12/2019 10:30, John Rumm wrote:

[1] Appalling meaning a good day gave 4 Mbps download. A poor day
gave 0.07 Mbps. A bad day gave 0.0 Mbps. Hence moving to FTTP was
essential.

Then you had an unresolved cable fault.

Had similar here - the unresolved cable "fault" was that there was 6km
of the stuff!


Nope. Its very unilikely that noise levels will give you a 0-4Mpbs range
on a daily basis on a clean cable.

Its far more likely there were bad joints and crackles on it.

A clean line of 5km will just about do 5Mbps. That is pretty much what I
have.

A typical line back to the exchange at that distance will do 2-3Mbps or
less if the house phone wiring is old and decrepit (as many houses are).
Bell wire hack is always worth a try in any property with slow internet.

My line attenuation is 48dB but many neighbours see 60+dB losses.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 18/12/2019 11:41, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 18/12/2019 10:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/12/2019 09:31, Sn!pe wrote:
Back in the day, ISPs would commonly hijack port 25 SMTP traffic
and silently push it through their own SMTP server instead as an
anti-spam measure.Â* Even though nowadays other ports are used,
is that not still the case?

I think only BT has the power to do that. And possibly mobile operators.


BT at one time used to block TCP/25 to anywhere but their own SMTP
servers for domestic customers. Not sure if that's still the case.

Are you sure?

https://community.bt.com/t5/Archive-...25/td-p/413447


That is a horrendous situation if true.

It certainly isnt true now as a friend uses my relay to send no problem
via BT


I only ever came across THAT on my sisters German installation with te
state run telecoms comany (she was on a modem years after UK broadband)
where the ROUTER came supplied with all SMTP traffic blacklisted apart
from explicit whitelisted entries for google, microsoft and hotmail etc.

I added my own server and all was well.


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On 18/12/2019 11:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/12/2019 11:41, Chris Bartram wrote:
On 18/12/2019 10:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/12/2019 09:31, Sn!pe wrote:
Back in the day, ISPs would commonly hijack port 25 SMTP traffic
and silently push it through their own SMTP server instead as an
anti-spam measure.Â* Even though nowadays other ports are used,
is that not still the case?

I think only BT has the power to do that. And possibly mobile operators.


BT at one time used to block TCP/25 to anywhere but their own SMTP
servers for domestic customers. Not sure if that's still the case.

Are you sure?

https://community.bt.com/t5/Archive-...25/td-p/413447



Pretty sure, yes. One place I help support had it's own branded ISP at
one time, back when you had to pay for dial-up time. We discontinued
that, but had to retain the mail domain and migrate it elsewhere. The
users migrated away for connectivity to other ISPs, but retained the email.

Then one day, the SMTP stopped working for BT customers, so loads of
support calls.


That is a horrendous situation if true.

It certainly isnt true now as a friend uses my relay to send no problem
via BT


Indeed. I think they thought better of it.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 10:05:56 +0000, Broadback
wrote:

I recently switched from Plus net to BT. I have my own domain so that
when I move internet supplier I can keep the same email addresses. This
has worked fine in the past but now BT will not let me communicate with
Hotmail addresses. Why, and is there a way around this problem?

1) Who provides your own domain?
2) What do you use as your outgoing mail server?


--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 18/12/2019 10:30, John Rumm wrote:
Really? IDNET certainly do.

+1 IDNet FTTP has been flawless for me since installation.


Other than BT, there are only a handful of ISPs that offer FTTP at the
moment. They tend to be the more specialist / smaller ones.

There is a list he

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broa...fttp-providers

Good lord. Thats not many is it? But the three old favourites of A&A
IDNET asnd ZEN are all there.


I wonder why the others havent bothered?


When we all compared how much we paid for broadband IDNET were as cheap
as anyone else.




[1] Appalling meaning a good day gave 4 Mbps download. A poor day
gave 0.07 Mbps. A bad day gave 0.0 Mbps. Hence moving to FTTP was
essential.

Then you had an unresolved cable fault.

Had similar here - the unresolved cable "fault" was that there was 6km
of the stuff!


Nope. Its very unilikely that noise levels will give you a 0-4Mpbs range
on a daily basis on a clean cable.

Its far more likely there were bad joints and crackles on it.

I agree. I get 0 - 0.8Mbps on a 9km cable, and that has occasional
faults which generally bring the availability down to 0 - 10%.

--

Roger Hayter

Chris Bartram wrote:

On 18/12/2019 10:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/12/2019 09:31, Sn!pe wrote:
Back in the day, ISPs would commonly hijack port 25 SMTP traffic
and silently push it through their own SMTP server instead as an
anti-spam measure. Even though nowadays other ports are used,
is that not still the case?

I think only BT has the power to do that. And possibly mobile operators.


BT at one time used to block TCP/25 to anywhere but their own SMTP
servers for domestic customers. Not sure if that's still the case.

Nildram used to do the same, unless you asked nicely. I thought it was
pretty general.

--

Roger Hayter