On 24/12/2019 13:54, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/12/2019 00:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/12/2019 19:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/12/2019 19:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/12/2019 00:27, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/12/2019 13:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/12/2019 21:39, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 21/12/2019 19:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/12/2019 16:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/12/2019 15:45, John Rumm wrote:
I think most would be comfortable with the concept of a "SMTP
server", a "POP3 server" and an "IMAP server" as being fair
description a software process running on a server that
implements
the server end of those protocols.

They might be, but the established terminology is of an SMTP
relay,
because it *serves* nothing.

If it sits there with an open rendezvous port, waiting for a
client
to connect, then its a server.

No, it isnt.

A router does that.

No, routers route packets.

For some reason I can't see TNP's reply which you quoted. However
I am
somewhat surprised by it since I had thought he had a better grip on
networking related stuff and hence would know that a router is
layer 3
device with no concept of end to end transport steam concepts
like ports
and sockets.


Every router I have had has a management interface. It listens to
telnelt ssh or http.
Does that make it a server?

Yes.Â*Â* In a rather trivial, but undeniable, sense.


I wonder why we call it a 'router' then. Not a 'server'

Because that is its primary function. It likely has a network switch
built in as well, but they don't call it that. Same for the built in
WAP.

In addition to its layer 3 routing capabilities, it will have many
actual servers built in that typically operate at OSI layers 4/5 and
above, to facilitate management and other activities. The obvious
ones being things like a DHCP server, plus HTTP, and Telnet/SSH
servers to allow configuration. WPS server for automatic wifi
configuration.

Same is true for pretty much any other box you plug into a network
these days.

And a mail relay aÂ* mail relay, not a mail server.

All mail relays are servers, not all servers are mail relays.


Oh dear. Relaying mail is its 'primary function'. Not servingÂ* mail.

You seem to be trying to contort into a semantic oozlum bird, and I
think you are close to succeeding.



No, I have basically got people to admit that the term 'server' is not
used when the primray function is not serving.

The proimaryu fimction of a mail relay is not serving it is relaying.
Thats why we never called them servers, but relays,


--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

On 24/12/2019 16:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/12/2019 13:54, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/12/2019 00:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/12/2019 19:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/12/2019 19:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/12/2019 00:27, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/12/2019 13:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/12/2019 21:39, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 21/12/2019 19:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/12/2019 16:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/12/2019 15:45, John Rumm wrote:
I think most would be comfortable with the concept of a "SMTP
server", a "POP3 server" and an "IMAP server" as being fair
description a software process running on a server that
implements
the server end of those protocols.

They might be, but the established terminology is of an SMTP
relay,
because it *serves* nothing.

If it sits there with an open rendezvous port, waiting for a
client
to connect, then its a server.

No, it isnt.

A router does that.

No, routers route packets.

For some reason I can't see TNP's reply which you quoted.
However I am
somewhat surprised by it since I had thought he had a better
grip on
networking related stuff and hence would know that a router is
layer 3
device with no concept of end to end transport steam concepts
like ports
and sockets.


Every router I have had has a management interface. It listens to
telnelt ssh or http.
Does that make it a server?

Yes.Â*Â* In a rather trivial, but undeniable, sense.


I wonder why we call it a 'router' then. Not a 'server'

Because that is its primary function. It likely has a network switch
built in as well, but they don't call it that. Same for the built in
WAP.

In addition to its layer 3 routing capabilities, it will have many
actual servers built in that typically operate at OSI layers 4/5 and
above, to facilitate management and other activities. The obvious
ones being things like a DHCP server, plus HTTP, and Telnet/SSH
servers to allow configuration. WPS server for automatic wifi
configuration.

Same is true for pretty much any other box you plug into a network
these days.

And a mail relay aÂ* mail relay, not a mail server.

All mail relays are servers, not all servers are mail relays.


Oh dear. Relaying mail is its 'primary function'. Not servingÂ* mail.

You seem to be trying to contort into a semantic oozlum bird, and I
think you are close to succeeding.



No, I have basically got people to admit that the term 'server' is not
used when the primray function is not serving.

Why would people want to "admit" to something that is not true?

The terms "Mail Server", "SMTP server", "POP3 Server", "IMAP Server",
"Exchange Server" are in widespread current usage, and the terms
accurately describe applications that have a server architecture, and
function as servers from the client applications perspective.

The proimaryu fimction of a mail relay is not serving it is relaying.
Thats why we never called them servers, but relays,

You do talk a load of cock...

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5321

Simple Mail Transfer Protocol

"Section 2.3 provides definitions of terms specific to this document.
Except when the historical terminology is necessary for clarity, this
document uses the current 'client' and 'server' terminology to
identify the sending and receiving SMTP processes, respectively."

7.9. Scope of Operation of SMTP Servers

"It is a well-established principle that an SMTP server may refuse to
accept mail for any operational or technical reason that makes sense
to the site providing the server."


Happy Christmas!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 24/12/2019 19:17, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/12/2019 16:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/12/2019 13:54, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/12/2019 00:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/12/2019 19:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/12/2019 19:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/12/2019 00:27, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/12/2019 13:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/12/2019 21:39, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 21/12/2019 19:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/12/2019 16:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/12/2019 15:45, John Rumm wrote:
I think most would be comfortable with the concept of a "SMTP
server", a "POP3 server" and an "IMAP server" as being fair
description a software process running on a server that
implements
the server end of those protocols.

They might be, but the established terminology is of an
SMTP relay,
because it *serves* nothing.

If it sits there with an open rendezvous port, waiting for a
client
to connect, then its a server.

No, it isnt.

A router does that.

No, routers route packets.

For some reason I can't see TNP's reply which you quoted.
However I am
somewhat surprised by it since I had thought he had a better
grip on
networking related stuff and hence would know that a router is
layer 3
device with no concept of end to end transport steam concepts
like ports
and sockets.


Every router I have had has a management interface. It listens to
telnelt ssh or http.
Does that make it a server?

Yes.Â*Â* In a rather trivial, but undeniable, sense.


I wonder why we call it a 'router' then. Not a 'server'

Because that is its primary function. It likely has a network
switch built in as well, but they don't call it that. Same for the
built in WAP.

In addition to its layer 3 routing capabilities, it will have many
actual servers built in that typically operate at OSI layers 4/5
and above, to facilitate management and other activities. The
obvious ones being things like a DHCP server, plus HTTP, and
Telnet/SSH servers to allow configuration. WPS server for automatic
wifi configuration.

Same is true for pretty much any other box you plug into a network
these days.

And a mail relay aÂ* mail relay, not a mail server.

All mail relays are servers, not all servers are mail relays.


Oh dear. Relaying mail is its 'primary function'. Not servingÂ* mail.

You seem to be trying to contort into a semantic oozlum bird, and I
think you are close to succeeding.



No, I have basically got people to admit that the term 'server' is not
used when the primray function is not serving.

Why would people want to "admit" to something that is not true?

The terms "Mail Server", "SMTP server", "POP3 Server", "IMAP Server",
"Exchange Server" are in widespread current usage, and the terms
accurately describe applications that have a server architecture, and
function as servers from the client applications perspective.

The proimaryu fimction of a mail relay is not serving it is relaying.
Thats why we never called them servers, but relays,

You do talk a load of cock...

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5321

Â*Simple Mail Transfer Protocol

Â* "Section 2.3 provides definitions of terms specific to this document.
Â*Â* Except when the historical terminology is necessary for clarity, this
Â*Â* document uses the current 'client' and 'server' terminology to
Â*Â* identify the sending and receiving SMTP processes, respectively."

7.9.Â* Scope of Operation of SMTP Servers

Â*Â* "It is a well-established principle that an SMTP server may refuse to
Â*Â* accept mail for any operational or technical reason that makes sense
Â*Â* to the site providing the server."


Happy Christmas!


A SMTP server is not quite the same as a SMTP relay.

An SMTP server is a machine that accpets mail via mSMTP for the end user
to collect via e.g. POP or IMAP.
An SMTP relay is a machine that accpets mail FROM the end users to
dispatch to other servers on the internet


--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.