I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?


Is it a Rolls or a Reliant, Lada or Lagonda?

Dave

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:37:09 +0100, David Wade
wrote:

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?


Is it a Rolls or a Reliant, Lada or Lagonda?

Somewhere in between - Nissan Micra K12 series.

I'm surprised there is no little friendly icon that lights up when the
clutch is on the blink. They seem to have icons for everything these days,
one presumes they do not need translating.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"David Wade" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?


Is it a Rolls or a Reliant, Lada or Lagonda?

Dave

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 07:52:03 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I'm surprised there is no little friendly icon that lights up when the
clutch is on the blink. They seem to have icons for everything these days,
one presumes they do not need translating.
Brian

2008 vehicle. The new ones probably have an app for the mobile phone
that carries out a full diagnostic test !!!

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 09:39:34 +0100
Scott wrote:

2008 vehicle. The new ones probably have an app for the mobile phone
that carries out a full diagnostic test !!!

The Micra does too if you plug an OBD-II dongle into it.

On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 00:33:20 +0100, Rob Morley
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 09:39:34 +0100
Scott wrote:

2008 vehicle. The new ones probably have an app for the mobile phone
that carries out a full diagnostic test !!!

The Micra does too if you plug an OBD-II dongle into it.

Actually, I have done that. It never occurred to me that it could
detect a mechanical failure such as a clutch.

Brian Gaff wrote

I'm surprised there is no little friendly icon that lights up when the
clutch is on the blink.

That’s done with OBD2 now.

They seem to have icons for everything these days, one presumes they do
not need translating.

"David Wade" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?


Is it a Rolls or a Reliant, Lada or Lagonda?

Dave

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 19:00:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I'm surprised there is no little friendly icon that lights up when the
clutch is on the blink.

That¢s done with OBD2 now.

Actually previous versions already did, you self-opinionated, self-important
senile asshole!

--
addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You on the other hand are a heavyweight bull****ter who demonstrates
your particular prowess at it every day."
MID:

On 01/07/2019 21:37, David Wade wrote:
On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out.Â* The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills.Â* Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles.Â* Does this sound like a clutch issue?


yes

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get?Â* Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

Mostly they slip in top gear first.

You can limp for a week or two

But more clutch slip will wear the plate out fatser, and if its you
that's already worn it out, well...

Modern clutches shouldl NOT wear out: not unless its a taxicab.



Is it a Rolls or a Reliant, Lada or Lagonda?

Dave


--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 09:00:51 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 01/07/2019 21:37, David Wade wrote:
On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out.* The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills.* Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles.* Does this sound like a clutch issue?


yes

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get?* Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

Mostly they slip in top gear first.

Thanks. It does seem to be worse in fifth.

You can limp for a week or two

But more clutch slip will wear the plate out fatser, and if its you
that's already worn it out, well...

Modern clutches shouldl NOT wear out: not unless its a taxicab.

I bought the vehicle second hand so I am blaming someone else. .

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it. Or it may be new clutch time.

It'll last a good long time if you drive like a Granny and never make it
slip. (My mum had a slave cylinder failure on the car she hadn't had
long - and hadn't noticed. But then, she _is_ a Granny...)

My clutch is at 160k miles and counting.

Andy

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:53:01 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it. Or it may be new clutch time.

Thanks. I'll get it looked at.

It'll last a good long time if you drive like a Granny and never make it
slip. (My mum had a slave cylinder failure on the car she hadn't had
long - and hadn't noticed. But then, she _is_ a Granny...)

My clutch is at 160k miles and counting.

In my defence I bought the car with over 60,000 on the clock. I was a
bit dubious at the time but the seller said it was fine. I have
previously exceeded that figure on one clutch in a Metro.

On 01/07/2019 22:03, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:53:01 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it. Or it may be new clutch time.

Thanks. I'll get it looked at.

It'll last a good long time if you drive like a Granny and never make it
slip. (My mum had a slave cylinder failure on the car she hadn't had
long - and hadn't noticed. But then, she _is_ a Granny...)

My clutch is at 160k miles and counting.

In my defence I bought the car with over 60,000 on the clock. I was a
bit dubious at the time but the seller said it was fine. I have
previously exceeded that figure on one clutch in a Metro.

My Sierra did 124,000 miles on one clutch before I got rid of it, my
Focus TDCI 150,000 and only had a new clutch then because of a dual-mass
flywheel. I tend to keep cars a fair few years and the only one I have
have had to change the clutch on due to wear was my first car (a Yugo
45) and that had been a driving school car before I had it!

I'd say that if you've got a problem at 70,000 miles, it's likely that
the previous owner slipped it a lot or there's some other mechanical
problem that is either causing the problem directly or has caused wear
to the clutch.

SteveW

On 01/07/2019 22:45, Steve Walker wrote:
On 01/07/2019 22:03, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:53:01 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out.Â* The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills.Â* Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles.Â* Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get?Â* Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is
slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it. Or it may be new clutch
time.

Thanks.Â* I'll get it looked at.

It'll last a good long time if you drive like a Granny and never make it
slip. (My mum had a slave cylinder failure on the car she hadn't had
long - and hadn't noticed. But then, she _is_ a Granny...)

My clutch is at 160k miles and counting.

In my defence I bought the car with over 60,000 on the clock.Â* I was a
bit dubious at the time but the seller said it was fine.Â* I have
previously exceeded that figure on one clutch in a Metro.

My Sierra did 124,000 miles on one clutch before I got rid of it, my
Focus TDCI 150,000 and only had a new clutch then because of a dual-mass
flywheel. I tend to keep cars a fair few years and the only one I have
have had to change the clutch on due to wear was my first car (a Yugo
45) and that had been a driving school car before I had it!

I'd say that if you've got a problem at 70,000 miles, it's likely that
the previous owner slipped it a lot or there's some other mechanical
problem that is either causing the problem directly or has caused wear
to the clutch.

If the car has done a lot of urban miles, then I'll be less surprised of
failure at 70k miles.

On 01/07/2019 23:11, Fredxx wrote:
On 01/07/2019 22:45, Steve Walker wrote:

I'd say that if you've got a problem at 70,000 miles, it's likely that
the previous owner slipped it a lot or there's some other mechanical
problem that is either causing the problem directly or has caused wear
to the clutch.

If the car has done a lot of urban miles, then I'll be less surprised of
failure at 70k miles.

Yes. Clutch life is very variable, depending on usage and style of
driving. Anything over 70K is fair gaime, but many people get much, much
more.

On 01/07/2019 23:11, Fredxx wrote:
On 01/07/2019 22:45, Steve Walker wrote:
On 01/07/2019 22:03, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:53:01 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out.Â* The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills.Â* Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles.Â* Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get?Â* Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is
slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it. Or it may be new clutch
time.

Thanks.Â* I'll get it looked at.

It'll last a good long time if you drive like a Granny and never
make it
slip. (My mum had a slave cylinder failure on the car she hadn't had
long - and hadn't noticed. But then, she _is_ a Granny...)

My clutch is at 160k miles and counting.

In my defence I bought the car with over 60,000 on the clock.Â* I was a
bit dubious at the time but the seller said it was fine.Â* I have
previously exceeded that figure on one clutch in a Metro.

My Sierra did 124,000 miles on one clutch before I got rid of it, my
Focus TDCI 150,000 and only had a new clutch then because of a
dual-mass flywheel. I tend to keep cars a fair few years and the only
one I have have had to change the clutch on due to wear was my first
car (a Yugo 45) and that had been a driving school car before I had it!

I'd say that if you've got a problem at 70,000 miles, it's likely that
the previous owner slipped it a lot or there's some other mechanical
problem that is either causing the problem directly or has caused wear
to the clutch.

If the car has done a lot of urban miles, then I'll be less surprised of
failure at 70k miles.

Another gotcha is failed oil seal on the crankshaft spraying the plate
with oil
#
But that doesnt change the bite point



--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 23:11:46 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 01/07/2019 22:45, Steve Walker wrote:
On 01/07/2019 22:03, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:53:01 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out.* The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills.* Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles.* Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get?* Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is
slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it. Or it may be new clutch
time.

Thanks.* I'll get it looked at.

It'll last a good long time if you drive like a Granny and never make it
slip. (My mum had a slave cylinder failure on the car she hadn't had
long - and hadn't noticed. But then, she _is_ a Granny...)

My clutch is at 160k miles and counting.

In my defence I bought the car with over 60,000 on the clock.* I was a
bit dubious at the time but the seller said it was fine.* I have
previously exceeded that figure on one clutch in a Metro.

My Sierra did 124,000 miles on one clutch before I got rid of it, my
Focus TDCI 150,000 and only had a new clutch then because of a dual-mass
flywheel. I tend to keep cars a fair few years and the only one I have
have had to change the clutch on due to wear was my first car (a Yugo
45) and that had been a driving school car before I had it!

I'd say that if you've got a problem at 70,000 miles, it's likely that
the previous owner slipped it a lot or there's some other mechanical
problem that is either causing the problem directly or has caused wear
to the clutch.

If the car has done a lot of urban miles, then I'll be less surprised of
failure at 70k miles.

I think he lived in Edinburgh. Have you ever experienced the driving
there :-)

I am unfortunate enough to own a French car (Peugeot 1007). The self help group Im on recons their clutches are good for 70-80K. Mine failed around that point, not the clutch itself, but the release bearing. I think the discussion went something like

Designer- €œWeve got a bullet proof release bearing for the 1007€�

Accountant - €œNon, weve got boxes of release bearings left over from when we made mopeds, use them€�

The brake disks last no time compared to BL or Vauxhall(Opel) either.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
My Sierra did 124,000 miles on one clutch before I got rid of it, my Focus
TDCI 150,000 and only had a new clutch then because of a dual-mass
flywheel. I tend to keep cars a fair few years and the only one I have
have had to change the clutch on due to wear was my first car (a Yugo 45)
and that had been a driving school car before I had it!

I'd say that if you've got a problem at 70,000 miles, it's likely that the
previous owner slipped it a lot or there's some other mechanical problem
that is either causing the problem directly or has caused wear to the
clutch.

My Peugeot 308 has done 180,000 miles and is still on its original clutch.
The bite point has got progressively higher but there's no sign of
slipping - engine revs rising when you apply power without speedometer
rising correspondingly. I don't drive like a granny but then I don't drive
like a bat out of hell either: somewhere in between. And I try to match the
engine speed to the new gear to minimise the amount of clutch slipping -
unlike someone who once gave me a lift who had been taught to come right off
the power, change gear, let up the clutch on an idling engine, and then
re-apply power, which must have caused horrendous wear on the clutch... and
on the passengers! She was gobsmacked when I rather tentatively said that
there was a better way of doing it, and demonstrated that if you keep your
foot on the accelerator and keep the engine speed fairly constant while you
are changing gear, and then either increase or decrease it a little
depending on whether you are changing down or up, as you let the clutch up,
you get a much smoother change.

The only problem I had with the clutch was at about 30,000 miles when the
hydraulic actuator between the pedal cable and the clutch itself failed -
leaving the car stuck in gear at the head of traffic lights. I was not
popular because there was no way to move it: I couldn't get it out of gear.
But that was not the clutch lining - the part that normally wears.

On all my previous cars, with older 1980s/90s technology, I've needed a new
clutch at around 70-80,000 miles, so this Pug is doing *very* much better.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
My Sierra did 124,000 miles on one clutch before I got rid of it, my
Focus TDCI 150,000 and only had a new clutch then because of a dual-mass
flywheel. I tend to keep cars a fair few years and the only one I have
have had to change the clutch on due to wear was my first car (a Yugo 45)
and that had been a driving school car before I had it!

I'd say that if you've got a problem at 70,000 miles, it's likely that
the previous owner slipped it a lot or there's some other mechanical
problem that is either causing the problem directly or has caused wear to
the clutch.

My Peugeot 308 has done 180,000 miles and is still on its original clutch.
The bite point has got progressively higher but there's no sign of
slipping - engine revs rising when you apply power without speedometer
rising correspondingly. I don't drive like a granny but then I don't drive
like a bat out of hell either: somewhere in between. And I try to match
the engine speed to the new gear to minimise the amount of clutch
slipping - unlike someone who once gave me a lift who had been taught to
come right off the power, change gear, let up the clutch on an idling
engine, and then re-apply power, which must have caused horrendous wear on
the clutch... and on the passengers! She was gobsmacked when I rather
tentatively said that there was a better way of doing it, and demonstrated
that if you keep your foot on the accelerator and keep the engine speed
fairly constant while you are changing gear, and then either increase or
decrease it a little depending on whether you are changing down or up, as
you let the clutch up, you get a much smoother change.

The only problem I had with the clutch was at about 30,000 miles when the
hydraulic actuator between the pedal cable and the clutch itself failed -
leaving the car stuck in gear at the head of traffic lights. I was not
popular because there was no way to move it: I couldn't get it out of
gear. But that was not the clutch lining - the part that normally wears.

On all my previous cars, with older 1980s/90s technology, I've needed a
new clutch at around 70-80,000 miles,

I didnt with my 73 golf or the previous 66 beetle.

so this Pug is doing *very* much better.

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 10:06:05 +0100, NY wrote:

The only problem I had with the clutch was at about 30,000 miles when
the hydraulic actuator between the pedal cable and the clutch itself
failed - leaving the car stuck in gear at the head of traffic lights. I
was not popular because there was no way to move it: I couldn't get it
out of gear.

Stuck in gear, working clutch, clutch release mechanisum failed -
unable to release clutch, engine must have stopped or you'd be
moving...

Clutch release mechanisum failed and holding the clutch disengaged,
doesn't matter if the thing is stuck in gear or not.

Stored tension in the transmission stoping gears sliding out of mesh
when gear leaver shoved, release tension by releaseing any brakes and
rocking the car to/fro, possibly on the starter.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 10:06:05 +0100, "NY" wrote:

snip

I don't drive like a granny but then I don't drive
like a bat out of hell either: somewhere in between. And I try to match the
engine speed to the new gear to minimise the amount of clutch slipping -
unlike someone who once gave me a lift who had been taught to come right off
the power, change gear, let up the clutch on an idling engine, and then
re-apply power, which must have caused horrendous wear on the clutch... and
on the passengers! She was gobsmacked when I rather tentatively said that
there was a better way of doing it,

A garage owning mate looked after a granny's car and she was often
bringing it in because she had misjudged the width of her drive
entrance and taken it down the wall on one side or another, or more
regularly, a new clutch. ;-(

He went out for a drive with her a few times to try to help her drive
better but eventually gave up.

The reason for the excessive clutch wear was that she typically set
the revs (till she could hear the engine) and than controlled the
speed on the clutch.

To try to assist her he put small stickers on the speedo, recommending
speed she changed gear and another on the rev counter indicating what
should be 'sufficient' to do most things but it didn't help.

*Luckily*, and with pressure from her granddaughter, she gave her the
car (before she wrecked it completely) on the understanding that she
drove her to church once a week. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Monday, 1 July 2019 22:45:55 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:

have had to change the clutch on due to wear was my first car (a Yugo
45) and that had been a driving school car before I had it!

what are Yugos really like?


NT

On 02/07/2019 12:11, wrote:
On Monday, 1 July 2019 22:45:55 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:

have had to change the clutch on due to wear was my first car (a Yugo
45) and that had been a driving school car before I had it!

what are Yugos really like?

Well that was in the '80s. Yugos and Ladas (part of my learning was in a
Lada) were basically older Fiat designs or at least based on Fiat
mechanicals. So basically simple, reasonably reliable, not overly
comfortable or particularly well handling, but they served their purpose
and were cheap. All prone to rust to pieces though.

SteveW

Scott wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:53:01 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it. Or it may be new clutch time.

Thanks. I'll get it looked at.

It'll last a good long time if you drive like a Granny and never make it
slip. (My mum had a slave cylinder failure on the car she hadn't had
long - and hadn't noticed. But then, she _is_ a Granny...)

My clutch is at 160k miles and counting.

In my defence I bought the car with over 60,000 on the clock. I was a
bit dubious at the time but the seller said it was fine. I have

Was the previous owner a granny? Micras are the sort of car that many older
women favour because they are fairly inexpensive to purchase and run.
Despite the previous posters comment about driving like a granny his line
€œand never make it slip€� is important.
Many grannies have poor clutch control partly I suppose due to weakening of
leg and foot muscles or painful joints,
it is not unusual to hear one pull away with the engine screaming like a
banshee but without the progress that should accompany that with the smell
of burning clutch wafting from the car.

The local garage has such a customer, she needs a new clutch about every
8000 miles in a similar small model that appeals to many elder drivers a
Toyota Aygo .
They have suggested she gets an Automatic but she wont countenance the
idea.


GH

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 17:16:16 +0000, Marland wrote:

Many grannies have poor clutch control partly I suppose due to weakening
of leg and foot muscles or painful joints,

Also driving in heels can lead to the sole lightly touching the pedal.
Enough to cause a permanent micro-slip which wears the clutch.

A woman I worked with always lifted her whole foot off the floor as she
released the clutch, rather than keeping her heel on the floor and using it
as a pivot to give greater control of the clutch. And she rarely wore high
heels, so it wasn't a way of compensating for that.

Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it.

Car clutches are adjustable? How does that work?

I can see how a stretched cable, poor set up or other cause might lead to a
clutch that doesnt fully disengage. I cant see how any adjustment would
make it engage more firmly.

Or it may be new clutch time.

It is.

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 01/07/2019 22:17, Tim+ wrote:
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/07/2019 21:24, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

I think you've had your warning...

Pick a gear that won't easily exceed the speed limit.

Accelerate hard from low revs, through the peak torque of the engine.

The engine speed should increase smoothly.

If it seems to rise sharply, then stop going up, your clutch is slipping.

It may be that simple adjustment can fix it.

Car clutches are adjustable? How does that work?

Some were, where you could adjust the free travel. Rare nowadays.

I can see how a stretched cable, poor set up or other cause might lead to a
clutch that doesnt fully disengage. I cant see how any adjustment would
make it engage more firmly.

Even cable clutches are usually self adjusting and take up stretched
cable slack, or slacken with clutch wear.

Or it may be new clutch time.

It is.

Very likely.

On 1 Jul 2019 21:17:44 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

I can see how a stretched cable, poor set up or other cause might lead to a
clutch that doesnt fully disengage. I cant see how any adjustment would
make it engage more firmly.

The disengagemnet point wanders up from the floorboard, until it would be fully
engaged only if the pedal were pulled up, as it were.


Thomas Prufer

On Monday, 1 July 2019 21:24:08 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

Ah, the benefits of electric cars!!

In article ,
Scott wrote:
I am wondering if my clutch is on the way out. The biting point seems
to be getting higher, the engine sometimes speeds up during gear
changes and the car seems less lively on hills. Vehicle has done
nearly 70,000 miles. Does this sound like a clutch issue?

If I just wait and see, how much warning would I get? Would I know
when a new clutch is needed or would I just come to an unplanned halt
one day?

It may make sense to change the clutch sooner rather than later. To avoid
damage to the flywheel.

--
*Ham and Eggs: Just a day's work for a chicken, but a lifetime commitment

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

It may make sense to change the clutch sooner rather than later. To avoid
damage to the flywheel.

If it's a diesel, it seems the done thing is to replace the DMF at the
same time ... or get shot of the vehicle.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

It may make sense to change the clutch sooner rather than later. To
avoid damage to the flywheel.

If it's a diesel, it seems the done thing is to replace the DMF at the
same time ... or get shot of the vehicle.

Quite.

I can remember simply replacing the driven plate in years gone by. Clutch
cover and flywheel still OK. ;-)

--
*Fax is stronger than fiction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 18:30:18 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

It may make sense to change the clutch sooner rather than later. To
avoid damage to the flywheel.

If it's a diesel, it seems the done thing is to replace the DMF at the
same time ... or get shot of the vehicle.

Quite.

I can remember simply replacing the driven plate in years gone by.
Clutch cover and flywheel still OK. ;-)

It was a false economy job beloved of back-street cowboy workshops.
Especially if the bulk of the cost of the job was the labour to remove
the gearbox.

Some garages would love to charge you all over again for the engine-out
labour to replace the DMF at a later date.

I was impressed with my garage who recommended that I have the water pump
replaced (*) at the same time as the cambelt was being routinely changed, to
avoid me having to pay twice for the labour, given that the water pump is
driven off the cambelt on my car.


(*) Even if it seemed to be working fine. Cost of water pump is much less
than cost of labour to remove it.

On 03/07/2019 09:57, NY wrote:
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 18:30:18 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â* Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

It may make sense to change the clutch sooner rather than later. To
avoid damage to the flywheel.

If it's a diesel, it seems the done thing is to replace the DMF at the
same time ... or get shot of the vehicle.

Quite.

I can remember simply replacing the driven plate in years gone by.
Clutch cover and flywheel still OK. ;-)

It was a false economy job beloved of back-street cowboy workshops.
Especially if the bulk of the cost of the job was the labour to remove
the gearbox.

Some garages would love to charge you all over again for the engine-out
labour to replace the DMF at a later date.

I was impressed with my garage who recommended that I have the water
pump replaced (*) at the same time as the cambelt was being routinely
changed, to avoid me having to pay twice for the labour, given that the
water pump is driven off the cambelt on my car.


(*) Even if it seemed to be working fine. Cost of water pump is much
less than cost of labour to remove it.

I raidse yuou 6 hours of labour to replace a £5 thermostat in a
freelander TD4


--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

In message , Andy Burns
writes
Dave Plowman wrote:

It may make sense to change the clutch sooner rather than later. To avoid
damage to the flywheel.

If it's a diesel, it seems the done thing is to replace the DMF at the
same time ... or get shot of the vehicle.

I've had two Skoda Octavia diesels. Both have exhibited the same clutch
characteristics. Normally they are fine and give smooth good
gearchanges.

But...... If creeping along in almost stationary traffic - a good
example is when in backed up queues in the Mersey Tunnel - the clutch
starts to judder. The judder then gets progressively worse until, in the
first one I had, the car became very difficult to drive. The judder
could, I think, sync up with the resonant frequency of the DMF. Whatever
the cause was, it could stall the engine.

After a rest and cooling down period, everything would return to normal.

With the first Octavia, I was planning to get the DMF changed to a
proper flywheel (Skoda do one for taxis), but other things went wrong,
so I traded it in. We still have the newer one and at just over 100k
miles, the "feature" is there, but liveable with.

--
Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
tairs...
With the first Octavia, I was planning to get the DMF changed to a proper
flywheel (Skoda do one for taxis), but other things went wrong, so I
traded it in. We still have the newer one and at just over 100k miles, the
"feature" is there, but liveable with.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a dual mass flywheel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-mass_flywheel seems to imply that with a
high-torque-at-low-revs engine (a diesel) a DMF is highly desirable to
absorb some of the peaks in the torque as each cylinder fires. Is the
disadvantage mainly that it is more complex and therefore more costly?

On 03/07/2019 11:23, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 10:02:31 +0100, NY wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message
tairs...
With the first Octavia, I was planning to get the DMF changed to a
proper flywheel (Skoda do one for taxis), but other things went wrong,
so I traded it in. We still have the newer one and at just over 100k
miles, the "feature" is there, but liveable with.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a dual mass flywheel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-mass_flywheel seems to imply that
with a high-torque-at-low-revs engine (a diesel) a DMF is highly
desirable to absorb some of the peaks in the torque as each cylinder
fires. Is the disadvantage mainly that it is more complex and therefore
more costly?

I think the idea is it acts like a light weight for when the velocity of
the flywheel needs to change quickly, but a heavy weight when it's needed
to keep the engine stable.

No. It doesn't and thats not the idea.

It acts *like* a heavy flywheel in terms of smoothing out torque pulses
but it is in fact lighter.


There are springs and weights involved which
are slotted into a recess in the flywheel. I'm guessing there are metal
fatigue issues around having to much around with the single casting of
the flywheel.

I wonder if a system with two flywheels might be better ?

It *is* a system with two flywheels


--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Wed, 03 Jul 2019 10:02:31 +0100, NY wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message
tairs...
With the first Octavia, I was planning to get the DMF changed to a
proper flywheel (Skoda do one for taxis), but other things went wrong,
so I traded it in. We still have the newer one and at just over 100k
miles, the "feature" is there, but liveable with.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a dual mass flywheel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-mass_flywheel seems to imply that
with a high-torque-at-low-revs engine (a diesel) a DMF is highly
desirable to absorb some of the peaks in the torque as each cylinder
fires. Is the disadvantage mainly that it is more complex and therefore
more costly?

I think the idea is it acts like a light weight for when the velocity of
the flywheel needs to change quickly, but a heavy weight when it's needed
to keep the engine stable. There are springs and weights involved which
are slotted into a recess in the flywheel. I'm guessing there are metal
fatigue issues around having to much around with the single casting of
the flywheel.

I wonder if a system with two flywheels might be better ?

I sometimes look at the "Briskoda" Skoda forum, where the general view
seemed to be that the SMF was far superior to the DMF on the diesel
Octavia.
OTOH, I discussed it with the local (usually excellent) agent, who said
they had fitted a couple of SMF's to taxis, and they had both returned
and reverted to DMF's.

The forum advocates of SMF's mostly appeared to have used the same
manufacturer for their non-OEM flywheels. My guess was that these
flywheels were heavier than the others.

Where I suspected a resonant frequency of the DMF flywheel masses and
springs, the effect was - for example - when waiting to turn right
across traffic, a gap appears and you let the clutch in sharply, there
is a bang and the engine stops dead. I wonder if there is some damping
on the springs which can fail.

I like boat diesels with really heavy flywheels. I suspect the lighter
mass of the DMF makes for a much more lively engine in a car.

--
Bill