Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?

I mean, I believe we (or 'competent people' at least) can do some
electrical stuff for ourselves but does it still need signing off to
maintain the 'tested' status for insurance purposes etc?

If it was 'ok' for me to do it (for / with him as a mate, not as a
'job' etc), would it be better to try to get the new socket into the
existing ring [1] or failing that, could it be a spur (assuming 2.5mm
T&E)?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?

I mean, I believe we (or 'competent people' at least) can do some
electrical stuff for ourselves but does it still need signing off to
maintain the 'tested' status for insurance purposes etc?

If it was 'ok' for me to do it (for / with him as a mate, not as a
'job' etc), would it be better to try to get the new socket into the
existing ring [1] or failing that, could it be a spur (assuming 2.5mm
T&E)?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).


IIRC, nothing legally to stop you doing this in your own house. But
obviously, if only competent.

If very close to an existing one and cavity walls etc, hopefully you can
pull one of the ring cables to the new location and add a new link cable
between them. But a single double socket spur is also ok. I'd avoid having
to extend one of the existing ring cables to make it reach the new socket,
though.

--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?

I mean, I believe we (or 'competent people' at least) can do some
electrical stuff for ourselves but does it still need signing off to
maintain the 'tested' status for insurance purposes etc?

If it was 'ok' for me to do it (for / with him as a mate, not as a
'job' etc), would it be better to try to get the new socket into the
existing ring [1] or failing that, could it be a spur (assuming 2.5mm
T&E)?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).

go on go on go on go on...take a chance...I did it...well more than one .. a
few of spurs and a few on the ring main......house didn't burn down and I
didn't electrocute myself...not from the want of trying.....I have to admit
I had a senior moment when I cut through the ring and wondered why stuff on
both sides of the cut were still on....we all have our stupid moments...and
usually survive.....so go on go on go on go on...tee hee

On 20/09/2018 14:20, T i m wrote:
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?

You can do whatever you like in/to your own home, or indeed others homes
providing you're not acting as/in a commercial entity/capacity.

Only issue might be if you injure/kill someone through
incompetence/neglect that questions might be raised but I'd then suggest
at worst it would be manslaughter should someone die through your
actions, although adding a socket as a localised spur is highly unlikely
to create such a risk.

You might of course do some hatchet job and set fire to the house which
would leave you/them un-insured should it be proven (or by
inadvertent/coerced admittance i.e. self incrimination) it was of your
doing; if buying into the home insurance scam is your thing, irrelevant
if you don't do of course.

The whole "you must not do electrical/gas stuff" is the bull**** spread
by affiliated trade bodies, and brainwashed into the masses to preserve
and protect lucrative organisations and their subscribers. Also
perpetuated by the media and dribbling half-wits that suck up anything
they're told by anyone acting under the guise of an/the "authority" on
such matters.

IOW if you are blessed with common sense (born pre-internet/mobile
phones) there's no problem.

Dave Plowman wrote:

nothing legally to stop you doing this in your own house.

or someone else's house, and even charging them for it.

But obviously, if only competent.

of course, it's an existing circuit, not in a "special location" so
part-P doesn't apply.

If it's easy to extend the ring then that could be seen as best, but
spurs are perfectly allowable, make sure the existing socket isn't
already a spur, spurs must be fused if they have more than one single or
double socket.

On 20/09/2018 14:20, T i m wrote:
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?


If there were a fire because you utterly ballsed it up and someone died,
you might well be tried. Manslaughter through gross negligence would
most probably be the charge. I see no reason why, just because you're an
unpaid amateur, that should not apply.

I think the courts would take the view that electrickery is known to be
dangerous stuff, and even an amateur should be held to account if his
work falls well short of competent.

As you're a careful bloke, it's unlikely to happen, but you did ask
about the legal position.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 15:05:11 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Dave Plowman wrote:

nothing legally to stop you doing this in your own house.

or someone else's house,

That was a concern as I thought I remembered it was ok to blow
yourself up but not blow up others. ;-)

and even charging them for it.

Not the case here but good to know.

But obviously, if only competent.

of course, it's an existing circuit, not in a "special location" so
part-P doesn't apply.

Ok.

If it's easy to extend the ring then that could be seen as best,

That would be my goal.

but
spurs are perfectly allowable,

Understood.

make sure the existing socket isn't
already a spur,

I don't think it is as this was all part of a fairly recent (a couple
of years ago) bare bones refit.

spurs must be fused if they have more than one single or
double socket.

Oh .. I wouldn't have considered that.

Just to confirm ... if you added as a spur of a pair of double of 13A
sockets off and existing double on a ring, you would have to fit a
fused faceplate (type thing) in between them?

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

Just to confirm ... if you added as a spur of a pair of double of 13A
sockets off and existing double on a ring, you would have to fit a
fused faceplate (type thing) in between them?

so, adding a total of four new sockets? you'd want an FCU between the
ring and the first new socket.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 14:49:52 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

snip

go on go on go on go on...take a chance...I did it...well more than one .. a
few of spurs and a few on the ring main......house didn't burn down and I
didn't electrocute myself...not from the want of trying.....I have to admit
I had a senior moment when I cut through the ring and wondered why stuff on
both sides of the cut were still on....we all have our stupid moments...and
usually survive.....so go on go on go on go on...tee hee

Well, I wired (I can't say re-wired as there wasn't much) this house
on my own 40 years ago and it was all pretty straightforward.

I was reminded the other day that 45 years ago I ran some SWA out to a
pond pump and that they have only just pulled it all out (still
working). ;-)

I've probably done 10's of similar jobs for people over the years,
when it was considered ok for someone who had done Electrical
Installation at college when they were 15 to do such things.

The questions were more along the lies of 'is it advised / acceptable'
to do such things for a mate, rather than just for yourself.

I'd rather someone else do it as I really don't need the faf but for
some reason they want me to do it ...

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
GB wrote:
If there were a fire because you utterly ballsed it up and someone died,
you might well be tried. Manslaughter through gross negligence would
most probably be the charge. I see no reason why, just because you're an
unpaid amateur, that should not apply.

Just how would anyone know just who had done that work - unless the owner
held his hands up?

I've seen plenty pro sparks leave things in a dangerous condition. Usually
poorly tightened connections.

It's not rocket science adding a socket, following the advice on here.
Something like 80% building work and 20% electrics.

--
*When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/09/2018 15:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
If there were a fire because you utterly ballsed it up and someone died,
you might well be tried. Manslaughter through gross negligence would
most probably be the charge. I see no reason why, just because you're an
unpaid amateur, that should not apply.

Just how would anyone know just who had done that work - unless the owner
held his hands up?

I've seen plenty pro sparks leave things in a dangerous condition. Usually
poorly tightened connections.

It's not rocket science adding a socket, following the advice on here.
Something like 80% building work and 20% electrics.



It's good that we're in agreement about this.

You trimmed this bit:
"As you're a careful bloke, it's unlikely to happen, but you did ask
about the legal position."

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 14:56:33 +0100, "www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
wrote:

On 20/09/2018 14:20, T i m wrote:
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?

You can do whatever you like in/to your own home, or indeed others homes
providing you're not acting as/in a commercial entity/capacity.

Oh, that last bit seems to be in conflict with what Andy said?

Only issue might be if you injure/kill someone through
incompetence/neglect that questions might be raised but I'd then suggest
at worst it would be manslaughter should someone die through your
actions, although adding a socket as a localised spur is highly unlikely
to create such a risk.

Well all that sort of 'liability' (legally or morally) is partly why I
don't volunteer or even want to do such jobs, even though I'm very
confident of doing so in a safe and competent manor.

You might of course do some hatchet job and set fire to the house which
would leave you/them un-insured should it be proven (or by
inadvertent/coerced admittance i.e. self incrimination) it was of your
doing; if buying into the home insurance scam is your thing, irrelevant
if you don't do of course.

;-)

The whole "you must not do electrical/gas stuff" is the bull**** spread
by affiliated trade bodies, and brainwashed into the masses to preserve
and protect lucrative organisations and their subscribers. Also
perpetuated by the media and dribbling half-wits that suck up anything
they're told by anyone acting under the guise of an/the "authority" on
such matters.

I'm sure there is loads of that but much actually makes sense when you
see how even some so called 'professionals' work. ;-(

IOW if you are blessed with common sense (born pre-internet/mobile
phones) there's no problem.

That's the hope. Check the lastest regs / rules, check how
straightforward the job might be, doing a job that even a good
professional would consider 'good'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 14:59:02 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

snip

Have you or he thought of one of these?
https://tinyurl.com/y7ncvldx Might get around any problems associated
with breaking into the ring or connecting via a spur.

No, I'm pretty sure neither of us have Chris (and I know he (she)
wouldn't go for it if he did). ;-)

I did suggest a surge protected short trailing lead as the surge
protection would be 'good' for expensive game consoles and the like
but that was turned down as well. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 14:49:52 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

snip

go on go on go on go on...take a chance...I did it...well more than one ..
a
few of spurs and a few on the ring main......house didn't burn down and I
didn't electrocute myself...not from the want of trying.....I have to
admit
I had a senior moment when I cut through the ring and wondered why stuff
on
both sides of the cut were still on....we all have our stupid
moments...and
usually survive.....so go on go on go on go on...tee hee

Well, I wired (I can't say re-wired as there wasn't much) this house
on my own 40 years ago and it was all pretty straightforward.

I was reminded the other day that 45 years ago I ran some SWA out to a
pond pump and that they have only just pulled it all out (still
working). ;-)

I've probably done 10's of similar jobs for people over the years,
when it was considered ok for someone who had done Electrical
Installation at college when they were 15 to do such things.

The questions were more along the lies of 'is it advised / acceptable'
to do such things for a mate, rather than just for yourself.

I'd rather someone else do it as I really don't need the faf but for
some reason they want me to do it ...

Cheers, T i m

my HND in building technology and administration didn't help much...tee hee

On 20/09/2018 14:20, T i m wrote:
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?

No problem.

I mean, I believe we (or 'competent people' at least) can do some
electrical stuff for ourselves but does it still need signing off to
maintain the 'tested' status for insurance purposes etc?

You can do *any* electrical work yourself. All of it needs to be done to
BS7671 or a compatible standard. *some* of it would be classed as
"notifiable".

Notifiable jobs would include additions or non trivial changes in a
bathroom, or room with sauna or pool. Adding a whole new circuit, or
changing a consumer unit.

Adding sockets to a living room is non notifiable.

If it was 'ok' for me to do it (for / with him as a mate, not as a
'job' etc),

Yes, and you can charge him as well if you want... this is not gas work
where working professionally would require gas safe membership.

would it be better to try to get the new socket into the
existing ring [1] or failing that, could it be a spur (assuming 2.5mm
T&E)?

If its easy to add into the ring, then that is slightly preferable, but
a spur is also acceptable.

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).

You can use a stud finder, or a metal detector, or even just a strong
magnet to find the fixings in the PB.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 15:13:26 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 20/09/2018 14:20, T i m wrote:
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?


If there were a fire because you utterly ballsed it up and someone died,
you might well be tried. Manslaughter through gross negligence would
most probably be the charge. I see no reason why, just because you're an
unpaid amateur, that should not apply.

Quite.

I think the courts would take the view that electrickery is known to be
dangerous stuff, and even an amateur should be held to account if his
work falls well short of competent.

Agreed.

As you're a careful bloke, it's unlikely to happen, but you did ask
about the legal position.

I am, hopefully and I did indeed (so thanks). ;-)

My question was really 'is it illegal for 'one' to do this sort of
thing for a friend (full stop)'.

If it isn't (and it appears it isn't?) and as long as all the
components and techniques used conform to the current regs and would
be considered 'good working practice' by those in the know, the
chances are there would be little problem?

It's like if someone asks me to have a look at their TV / Video /
Laptop and it involves doing anything inside of the outsides or that
might put it (or them) at risk, they are told in no uncertain terms I
do so at their risk (if I decide to do it at all). So, because of that
I wouldn't repair a laptop PSU (replacing a lead etc) for someone
*else* but suggest *they* buy a genuine replacement (but might point
them in the right direction on Amazon / eBay etc).

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 15:43:46 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

T i m wrote:

Just to confirm ... if you added as a spur of a pair of double of 13A
sockets off and existing double on a ring, you would have to fit a
fused faceplate (type thing) in between them?

so, adding a total of four new sockets?

Sorry (my bad), just two (one double off an existing double).

you'd want an FCU between the
ring and the first new socket.

But the same would apply I'm guessing.

Cheers, T i m

So what is the insurance angle, surely if a socket is wired right it cannot
be unsafe.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"T i m" wrote in message
...
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?

I mean, I believe we (or 'competent people' at least) can do some
electrical stuff for ourselves but does it still need signing off to
maintain the 'tested' status for insurance purposes etc?

If it was 'ok' for me to do it (for / with him as a mate, not as a
'job' etc), would it be better to try to get the new socket into the
existing ring [1] or failing that, could it be a spur (assuming 2.5mm
T&E)?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:03:03 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

If its easy to add into the ring, then that is slightly preferable,

Understood (and I would try very hard to make it so).

but
a spur is also acceptable.

Ok.

[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).

You can use a stud finder,

Yup, I have one at the ready. ;-)

or a metal detector, or even just a strong
magnet to find the fixings in the PB.

Understood.

Ironically I did see the wall in question as it was being done (re
remembering where the battens / studs were) but that was 2+ years ago.
;-)

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

Chris Hogg wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/y7ncvldx

I know he (she) wouldn't go for it

The MK 3-gang faceplates are not so ugly

https://toolstation.com/shop/p77345

T i m wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

so, adding a total of four new sockets?

Sorry (my bad),

I did wonder about the "pair of doubles"

just two (one double off an existing double).

you'd want an FCU between the
ring and the first new socket.

But the same would apply I'm guessing.
One single socket, or one double socket can connect direct to an
existing point on the ring, without an FCU.

On 20/09/2018 16:16, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:03:03 +0100, John Rumm


[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).

You can use a stud finder,

Yup, I have one at the ready. ;-)

or a metal detector, or even just a strong
magnet to find the fixings in the PB.

Understood.

Ironically I did see the wall in question as it was being done (re
remembering where the battens / studs were) but that was 2+ years ago.
;-)

Its not unknown for the person building it to make pencil marks on the
floor indicating the stud positions... ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/09/2018 16:09, T i m wrote:

My question was really 'is it illegal for 'one' to do this sort of
thing for a friend (full stop)'.

Others have answered. It's legal.



If it isn't (and it appears it isn't?) and as long as all the
components and techniques used conform to the current regs and would
be considered 'good working practice' by those in the know, the
chances are there would be little problem?

I think there's zero risk if you do it right. There'd be no come-back if
you didn't conform to the latest regs, just as long as the work is safe.
There are loads of perfectly safe installations that were not done to
the now-current regs.





It's like if someone asks me to have a look at their TV / Video /
Laptop and it involves doing anything inside of the outsides or that
might put it (or them) at risk, they are told in no uncertain terms I
do so at their risk (if I decide to do it at all). So, because of that
I wouldn't repair a laptop PSU (replacing a lead etc) for someone
*else* but suggest *they* buy a genuine replacement (but might point
them in the right direction on Amazon / eBay etc).

Interesting question if you point them in the direction of what turns
out to be an unsafe clone.

Don't forget to look both ways carefully before crossing the road.





Cheers, T i m

On 20/09/2018 16:09, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 15:13:26 +0100, GB

As you're a careful bloke, it's unlikely to happen, but you did ask
about the legal position.

I am, hopefully and I did indeed (so thanks). ;-)

My question was really 'is it illegal for 'one' to do this sort of
thing for a friend (full stop)'.

To which the answer is a simple and unqualified yes.

Part P now covers all domestic electrical work, and from that, many
would argue that it mandates work be done to a recognised standard. That
applies to all work - even non notifiable work.

Even part P now has two explicit mechanisms for non professional
electricians to complete *notifiable* jobs in a way that satisfies the
LABC.

If it isn't (and it appears it isn't?) and as long as all the
components and techniques used conform to the current regs and would
be considered 'good working practice' by those in the know, the
chances are there would be little problem?

I would turn it round the other way, and say the starting point is you
have established its legal for you to do it, then you get to what
qualifies as an acceptable standard of work. Having done the work, the
final stage should be some appropriate level of testing.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
T i m wrote:
If it isn't (and it appears it isn't?) and as long as all the
components and techniques used conform to the current regs and would
be considered 'good working practice' by those in the know, the
chances are there would be little problem?

I've seen pro work which would make you shudder. On a new build estate, so
I'd guess pros.

Steel back boxes nailed to studs where possible - others simply held in
place by plaster. Perhaps OK for a switch, but a couple of sockets and
boxes came away from the plasterboard.

No grommets to protect the cables into the back boxes. No earth sleeving.
No tail to box earth terminal.

I'd hope no true DIYer would do work like that.

--
*No word in the English language rhymes with month, orange, silver,purple

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/09/2018 16:11, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 15:43:46 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

T i m wrote:

Just to confirm ... if you added as a spur of a pair of double of 13A
sockets off and existing double on a ring, you would have to fit a
fused faceplate (type thing) in between them?

so, adding a total of four new sockets?

Sorry (my bad), just two (one double off an existing double).

you'd want an FCU between the
ring and the first new socket.

But the same would apply I'm guessing.

One socket (single or double) on a spur is ok unfused. Since the single
run of 2.5mm^2 T&E has adequate fault protection provided by the MCB at
the origin of the circuit, and overload protection by virtue of the
nominal max load being less than the minimum installed capacity of a
single bit of cable.

Once you go beyond that, then you would need to provide additional
fusing locally to protect the cable against overload.

Multiple sockets are obviously better incorporated into a ring (assuming
that's what's there in the first place).

Note that you can still extend a ring even if you only have access to it
at one socket location, just by taking both ends of your new bit of ring
to it, and joining appropriately:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ket_extensions




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20/09/18 14:20, T i m wrote:
Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double
socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y
mate?

I mean, I believe we (or 'competent people' at least) can do some
electrical stuff for ourselves but does it still need signing off to
maintain the 'tested' status for insurance purposes etc?

If it was 'ok' for me to do it (for / with him as a mate, not as a
'job' etc), would it be better to try to get the new socket into the
existing ring [1] or failing that, could it be a spur (assuming 2.5mm
T&E)?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).

I have done this in our house a good few years back now, and nothing has
blown up yet.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:24:14 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 20/09/2018 16:16, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:03:03 +0100, John Rumm


[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea
how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or
where the battens are etc).

You can use a stud finder,

Yup, I have one at the ready. ;-)

or a metal detector, or even just a strong magnet to find the fixings
in the PB.

Understood.

Ironically I did see the wall in question as it was being done (re
remembering where the battens / studs were) but that was 2+ years ago.
;-)

Its not unknown for the person building it to make pencil marks on the
floor indicating the stud positions... ;-)

THere are marks on our floors indicating junction boxes, ceiling roses
etc. underneath!

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
If it isn't (and it appears it isn't?) and as long as all the
components and techniques used conform to the current regs and would
be considered 'good working practice' by those in the know, the
chances are there would be little problem?

I've seen pro work which would make you shudder. On a new build estate, so
I'd guess pros.

Steel back boxes nailed to studs where possible - others simply held in
place by plaster. Perhaps OK for a switch, but a couple of sockets and
boxes came away from the plasterboard.

No grommets to protect the cables into the back boxes. No earth sleeving.
No tail to box earth terminal.



I wasless than impressed by the electrician contracted by the
company that did our new conservatory, doing some wiring in what
in the completed build is effectively boxed in and not accessible
even with tools without some effort a destruction
probably.

Making connections with choc blocks and insulation tape...


--
Chris French

On 20/09/2018 16:19, Andy Burns wrote:
T i m wrote:

Chris Hogg wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/y7ncvldx

I know he (she) wouldn't go for it

The MK 3-gang faceplates are not so ugly

https://toolstation.com/shop/p77345

They do however, require you to chop in a back box.

--
Adam

On 20/09/2018 16:35, John Rumm wrote:

I would turn it round the other way, and say the starting point is you
have established its legal for you to do it, then you get to what
qualifies as an acceptable standard of work. Having done the work, the
final stage should be some appropriate level of testing.

Remember that 3rd year apprentices socket I tested?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-AtQUf66A


--
Adam

On 20/09/2018 14:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If very close to an existing one and cavity walls etc, hopefully you can
pull one of the ring cables to the new location and add a new link cable
between them. But a single double socket spur is also ok. I'd avoid having
to extend one of the existing ring cables to make it reach the new socket,
though.


Absolutely no need to make it a ring if it means extending cables.

On a new build or rewire I would of course generally not use a spur
apart from a socket in a loft.

--
Adam

ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-AtQUf66A

With the socket switched off?

On 20/09/2018 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-AtQUf66A

With the socket switched off?


Think SP switch.

--
Adam

On 20/09/2018 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-AtQUf66A

With the socket switched off?

I presume a single pole switched socket with live going to either earth
or neutral.

ARW wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-AtQUf66A

With the socket switched off?

Think SP switch.

lovely, did you tie him to the ladders for the ride home?

On 20/09/2018 19:38, Fredxx wrote:
On 20/09/2018 19:32, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-AtQUf66A

With the socket switched off?

I presume a single pole switched socket with live going to either earth
or neutral.



LN reversal in this case. Had the switch been on then the middle LED
would have turned green.



--
Adam

On 20/09/2018 19:43, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-AtQUf66A

With the socket switched off?

Think SP switch.

lovely, did you tie him to the ladders for the ride home?


Of course not.


I just made him hold on to the roof bars.

--
Adam

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:21:01 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

snip

One single socket, or one double socket can connect direct to an
existing point on the ring, without an FCU.

Check, thanks Andy.

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:56:20 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

One socket (single or double) on a spur is ok unfused. Since the single
run of 2.5mm^2 T&E has adequate fault protection provided by the MCB at
the origin of the circuit, and overload protection by virtue of the
nominal max load being less than the minimum installed capacity of a
single bit of cable.

Understood.

Once you go beyond that, then you would need to provide additional
fusing locally to protect the cable against overload.

Check.

Multiple sockets are obviously better incorporated into a ring (assuming
that's what's there in the first place).

Agreed (and what I've always done in the past, even to the point of
running a new cable into the 'short' leg (here, so all the cabling was
in trunking). ;-)

Note that you can still extend a ring even if you only have access to it
at one socket location, just by taking both ends of your new bit of ring
to it, and joining appropriately:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ket_extensions

I generally work on the principal that every run of (mains power)
cable is continuous, that way you can never have any issues with
joints. I'm not saying I don't use junction boxes where it's not
convenient to daisychain but the cables from A to B are continuous.
;-)

That was the case for the cable joining the socket on the landing to
the one in the hall in my mates new build house. Shame they were only
connected to each other. ;-(

Tested much?

Cheers, T i m