Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?


--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

Current regulations would require split over dual RCDs (or individual
RCBOs) but it only needs to meet what was current when built or modified.

On Thursday, 12 July 2018 11:37:07 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

no, need a split CU at the minimum
And I would think an RCD that keeps nuisance tripping leaves the landlord open to the claim that the property does not satisfy the contract.

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.


NT

wrote:

It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years

Only *needs* it if an HMO ... otherwise just needs to be safe, I suppose
inspections are a good way of demonstrating that.

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

As a digression, I believe the rules have now changed so a consumer
unit must be of metal construction. I assume this too is not
retrospective.

1. Is it a good idea or - as one person told me - totally pointless?
2. Would it be necessary to replace the entire unit or could one buy
box only and transfer the contents (Crabtree)? (Reason, I have
RCBOs.)

Are you sure about that. I can think of many people around here renting out
houses that still have the old wiring from the 70s but have had work done
etc including smart meters.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 12 July 2018 11:37:07 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

no, need a split CU at the minimum
And I would think an RCD that keeps nuisance tripping leaves the landlord
open to the claim that the property does not satisfy the contract.

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails
to meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.


NT

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:55:09 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

Do the same rules apply to rental properties. ISTR some of the gas
safety rules had retrospective effect (eg, hard-wired smoke
detectors). .

On 12/07/2018 15:02, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:55:09 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

Do the same rules apply to rental properties. ISTR some of the gas
safety rules had retrospective effect (eg, hard-wired smoke
detectors). .


In England a landlord of an ordinary domestic property (not an HMO) is
only required to keep the electrical installation in a safe condition.
(Smoke and CO alarms don't have to be mains so are really a separate
issue.) HMOs require more - eg a EICR every 5 years.

Scotland, Wales and NI do their own thing. Eg Scotland requires PAT for
landlord-provided appliances.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 12/07/18 12:49, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

As a digression, I believe the rules have now changed so a consumer
unit must be of metal construction. I assume this too is not
retrospective.

Not quite:

Must be non combustible or contained in a non combustible enclosure.

(Not sure of the exact wording but basically that ^^)

However, that has been implemented as "metal" for the most part.



It is not retrospective.



1. Is it a good idea or - as one person told me - totally pointless?

It would be more to the point to improve standards for the MCB/device
construction to avoid overheating in the first place. Proper screw
terminals rather than cage clamps and double screws on larger current
devices. No dissimilar metals - say all brass terminals and screws.

2. Would it be necessary to replace the entire unit or could one buy
box only and transfer the contents (Crabtree)? (Reason, I have
RCBOs.)


Not required.

On 12/07/2018 12:10, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:

It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years

Only *needs* it if an HMO ... otherwise just needs to be safe, I suppose
inspections are a good way of demonstrating that.


Generally a house is given a 10 year certificate. For rental properties
it is suggested that it is tested again on change of tenant. I would
suggest that is a a bit overkill and that a visual inspection is good
enough unless you know they have swapped light fittings etc.

--
Adam

On 12/07/2018 15:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/07/18 12:49, Scott wrote:
snip

Must be non combustible or contained in a non combustible enclosure.

(Not sure of the exact wording but basically that ^^)

However, that has been implemented as "metal" for the most part.



IMO they didn't really give manufacturers much option when:

a. they require the CU or its enclosure to be of "non-combustible material"

b. they don't define "non-combustible material

c. they do say "NOTE 1: Ferrous metal, e.g. steel, is deemed to be an
example of a non-combustible material."

Now it may be that I'm expecting too much from the drafters. But that
use of "deemed to be" to me means that there would otherwise be room for
argument that steel is a *not* a non-combustible material for the
purposes of 421.1.201.

I may have missed where the point was discussed while the new reg. was
in draft. But taking the reg. at face value I cannot see manufacturers
taking a chance with another material. After all, perhaps the "deeming"
was felt necessary because a steel CU might well burn if the occupier
stored their medical oxygen cylinders in the cupboard where the CU is
housed. So they'd have to come up with a material which doesn't burn in
pure oxygen.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 12/07/2018 12:49, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

As a digression, I believe the rules have now changed so a consumer
unit must be of metal construction. I assume this too is not
retrospective.

1. Is it a good idea or - as one person told me - totally pointless?
2. Would it be necessary to replace the entire unit or could one buy
box only and transfer the contents (Crabtree)? (Reason, I have
RCBOs.)


There is no requirement to replace them. I would however suggest that
you check the tightness of the terminals.

You could swap just the body of the CU.

Or you could try these

https://envirograf.com/product/envir...ession-system/

--
Adam

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 15:30:08 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 12/07/2018 15:02, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:55:09 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

Do the same rules apply to rental properties. ISTR some of the gas
safety rules had retrospective effect (eg, hard-wired smoke
detectors). .


In England a landlord of an ordinary domestic property (not an HMO) is
only required to keep the electrical installation in a safe condition.
(Smoke and CO alarms don't have to be mains so are really a separate
issue.) HMOs require more - eg a EICR every 5 years.

Scotland, Wales and NI do their own thing. Eg Scotland requires PAT for
landlord-provided appliances.

Do we not also require to provide alarms that are hard-wired (2007
onwards) and interlinked? I understand the landlord can carry out the
PAT testing if he/she passes a test in the subject.

Robin wrote:

Now it may be that I'm expecting too much from the drafters.Â* But that
use of "deemed to be" to me means that there would otherwise be room for
argument that steel is a *not* a non-combustible material for the
purposes of 421.1.201.

Don't store your thermic lance in the meter cupboard ...

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

Why would anyone claiming to have electronic skills put up with an RCD
constantly tripping?

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

I'd guess your view is tenants should be grateful for anything their
gracious landlord provides.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/07/2018 11:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

Short answers: no, and no.

Pragmatic answer: It wants to be good enough that they tenants are not
making a fuss and costing you money to keep investigating and fixing
stuff...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/07/2018 15:02, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:55:09 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

Do the same rules apply to rental properties. ISTR some of the gas
safety rules had retrospective effect (eg, hard-wired smoke
detectors). .

Landlords (or their agents) must (i.e. are legally required to) have a
gas safety check done annually.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/07/2018 12:49, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:37:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

As a digression, I believe the rules have now changed so a consumer
unit must be of metal construction. I assume this too is not
retrospective.

1. Is it a good idea or - as one person told me - totally pointless?

Its in response to a number of house fires that have started in a CU,
but were able to spread to the rest of the property.

So its certainly not pointless, but probably not a significant risk in
the grand scheme of things, especially if the original quality of
workmanship in the plastic CU was ok, and it gets some occasional
maintenance (i.e. screws checked for tightness etc) from time to time.

2. Would it be necessary to replace the entire unit or could one buy
box only and transfer the contents (Crabtree)? (Reason, I have
RCBOs.)

You could buy an empty CU and re-use the contents if compatible.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 18:54:53 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/07/2018 15:02, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:55:09 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

Do the same rules apply to rental properties. ISTR some of the gas
safety rules had retrospective effect (eg, hard-wired smoke
detectors). .

Landlords (or their agents) must (i.e. are legally required to) have a
gas safety check done annually.

Very true but this does not in itself make changes of regulations
retrospective, which was the issue here. .

On 12/07/2018 16:30, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 15:30:08 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 12/07/2018 15:02, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:55:09 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

Do the same rules apply to rental properties. ISTR some of the gas
safety rules had retrospective effect (eg, hard-wired smoke
detectors). .


In England a landlord of an ordinary domestic property (not an HMO) is
only required to keep the electrical installation in a safe condition.
(Smoke and CO alarms don't have to be mains so are really a separate
issue.) HMOs require more - eg a EICR every 5 years.

Scotland, Wales and NI do their own thing. Eg Scotland requires PAT for
landlord-provided appliances.

Do we not also require to provide alarms that are hard-wired (2007
onwards) and interlinked?

What makes you think so in England?

I'm not a landlord and I've not helped anyone who is with the regs since
2014. But I saw nothing in the new regs in 2015 to require interlinked
mains alarms in non-HMO properties and can't see anything in the current
guidance on gov.uk or from my council.

I also don't know of any legislation that applies to _existing_
properties, when rented, the higher standards for new builds in the
current Building Regs. But that's not saying a lot given the length and
width and height and depth of my ignorance.


I understand the landlord can carry out the
PAT testing if he/she passes a test in the subject.


I don't know what the Scots do and don't accept.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 19:14:35 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 12/07/2018 16:30, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 15:30:08 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 12/07/2018 15:02, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:55:09 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

Do the same rules apply to rental properties. ISTR some of the gas
safety rules had retrospective effect (eg, hard-wired smoke
detectors). .


In England a landlord of an ordinary domestic property (not an HMO) is
only required to keep the electrical installation in a safe condition.
(Smoke and CO alarms don't have to be mains so are really a separate
issue.) HMOs require more - eg a EICR every 5 years.

Scotland, Wales and NI do their own thing. Eg Scotland requires PAT for
landlord-provided appliances.

Do we not also require to provide alarms that are hard-wired (2007
onwards) and interlinked?

What makes you think so in England?

Don't know about England. I'm in Scotland. I was responding to your
second paragraph, specifically the latter part of your last sentence.

I'm not a landlord and I've not helped anyone who is with the regs since
2014. But I saw nothing in the new regs in 2015 to require interlinked
mains alarms in non-HMO properties and can't see anything in the current
guidance on gov.uk or from my council.

I also don't know of any legislation that applies to _existing_
properties, when rented, the higher standards for new builds in the
current Building Regs. But that's not saying a lot given the length and
width and height and depth of my ignorance.


I understand the landlord can carry out the
PAT testing if he/she passes a test in the subject.


I don't know what the Scots do and don't accept.

You may find this instructive:
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...ish-landlords/

As far as I am aware this is a UK newsgroup, not an English one.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

Why would anyone claiming to have electronic skills put up with an RCD
constantly tripping?

And in a 16 year old property that is to be let, does it NEED to meet
current regulations anyway?

I'd guess your view is tenants should be grateful for anything their
gracious landlord provides.

passing a test and working properly are not necessarily the same thing. I
remember visiting a school somewhere in the west country where they had
radio reception problems. The problem was a faulty radio. "But its just
passed a test!". - PAT test - it was perfectly safe.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 12/07/2018 19:22, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 19:14:35 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 12/07/2018 16:30, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 15:30:08 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 12/07/2018 15:02, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:55:09 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

wrote on 12/07/2018 :
It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

Do the same rules apply to rental properties. ISTR some of the gas
safety rules had retrospective effect (eg, hard-wired smoke
detectors). .


In England a landlord of an ordinary domestic property (not an HMO) is
only required to keep the electrical installation in a safe condition.
(Smoke and CO alarms don't have to be mains so are really a separate
issue.) HMOs require more - eg a EICR every 5 years.

Scotland, Wales and NI do their own thing. Eg Scotland requires PAT for
landlord-provided appliances.

Do we not also require to provide alarms that are hard-wired (2007
onwards) and interlinked?

What makes you think so in England?

Don't know about England. I'm in Scotland. I was responding to your
second paragraph, specifically the latter part of your last sentence.

Fair enough.

Of course I did start that sentence "Eg" by which I hoped to indicate
that it was not the only difference but I apologise if you feel insulted
by the absence of recognition of the requirement for interlinked alarms
(which as it happens I did know about). I apologise equally to any Welsh
or Northern Irish readers who feel I should have kept quiet if I was not
willing to provide an exhaustive account of all 4 regimes.

I'm not a landlord and I've not helped anyone who is with the regs since
2014. But I saw nothing in the new regs in 2015 to require interlinked
mains alarms in non-HMO properties and can't see anything in the current
guidance on gov.uk or from my council.

I also don't know of any legislation that applies to _existing_
properties, when rented, the higher standards for new builds in the
current Building Regs. But that's not saying a lot given the length and
width and height and depth of my ignorance.


I understand the landlord can carry out the
PAT testing if he/she passes a test in the subject.


I don't know what the Scots do and don't accept.

You may find this instructive:
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...ish-landlords/

Thanks.

As far as I am aware this is a UK newsgroup, not an English one.

Yes. Which I is why I mentioned that this was a devolved matter for
Scotland, Wales and NI. And made clear where I was referring to
England. You have then very successfully caught me out by using "we"
without any clue as to which jurisdiction you had in mind. Well done.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 12/07/2018 19:14, Robin wrote:


I don't know what the Scots do

Well yesterday they had their second best ever moment of glory in the
World Cup finals.

--
Adam

On 12/07/2018 17:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

Why would anyone claiming to have electronic skills put up with an RCD
constantly tripping?

Is it constantly or frequently? Ours trips more often than I'd like, but
with a ridiculous number of electronic devices with filters that leak to
earth in our house, there is not a lot of margin and I can't afford to
go through the hassle of replacing the CU to allow for splitting between
two RCDs or switching to RCBOs.

SteveW

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
On 12/07/2018 17:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Am I right in thinking that no matter how dysfunctional or prone to
nuisance tripping it is, a 30mA whole house RCD still meets current
regulations?

Why would anyone claiming to have electronic skills put up with an RCD
constantly tripping?

Is it constantly or frequently? Ours trips more often than I'd like, but
with a ridiculous number of electronic devices with filters that leak to
earth in our house, there is not a lot of margin and I can't afford to
go through the hassle of replacing the CU to allow for splitting between
two RCDs or switching to RCBOs.

I suppose if you're willing to put up with it, fine. Although it's not
that big a job to change a CU if you're half competent.

Point I was really making was the likes of Turnip expecting tenants to
accept any old crap and be grateful.

BTW, I've got lots of electronics in this house too. And never once had a
nuisance trip. Although I do have a split load unit, all the electronic
stuff is on the RCD side.

--
*Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 12 July 2018 14:55:13 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
tabbypurr wrote on 12/07/2018 :

It needs an electrical inspection every 5 years, and anything that fails to
meet current standard at those times be brought within spec. So yes.

Think about it, no it does not. Imagine having to rewire a property
every five years, just to bring it up to current standards. Regulations
are not applied retro spectively. What met regulations at the time it
was installed, remains satisfactory now. Though it might be advisable
to bring an installation more up to date with current regulations.

OK. I can let the place with a 1930s electrical system then? If you say so.


NT

On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:47:26 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

BTW, I've got lots of electronics in this house too. And never once had a
nuisance trip.

I can't remember having one either.

Alhough I do have a split load unit, all the electronic
stuff is on the RCD side.

Yup. I think I only have the lights on the non RCD side but it's been
a while since I re-wired this house.

Cheers, T i m

In message , at 14:49:15 on Thu, 12 Jul
2018, Brian Gaff remarked:
Are you sure about that. I can think of many people around here renting out
houses that still have the old wiring from the 70s but have had work done
etc including smart meters.

What degree of inspection occurs when a smart meter is fitted (genuine
question)? In other words is the presence of a recently-fitted smart
meter any indication the rest of the installation is reasonably OK?

(any house, not just rental ones).

ps What's a SEAP 2001-V, almost no online footprint compared to
the 2000-V
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 15:49:10 on
Thu, 12 Jul 2018, Tim Watts remarked:

As a digression, I believe the rules have now changed so a consumer
unit must be of metal construction. I assume this too is not
retrospective.

Not quite:

Must be non combustible or contained in a non combustible enclosure.

(Not sure of the exact wording but basically that ^^)

However, that has been implemented as "metal" for the most part.

Thus a really old wooden one is a no-no I suppose?
--
Roland Perry

brought next idea :
OK. I can let the place with a 1930s electrical system then? If you say so.

That would not be appropriate and you would be taking an extreme risk.
It is also highly unlikely that any normal domestic premises would
still have a 1930's installation still in use, because it simply would
not be adequate and serve modern needs.

I would suggest the vast majority (99%) of installations are at least
post 1985.

Roland Perry wrote :
What degree of inspection occurs when a smart meter is fitted (genuine
question)? In other words is the presence of a recently-fitted smart meter
any indication the rest of the installation is reasonably OK?

(any house, not just rental ones).

ps What's a SEAP 2001-V, almost no online footprint compared to
the 2000-V

There is no inspection, nor are they qualified to inspect. Those
swapping gas meters are trained to carry out a basic drop test as the
fit them, which just ensure there are no existing leaks.

In article , Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
brought next idea :
OK. I can let the place with a 1930s electrical system then? If you say
so.

That would not be appropriate and you would be taking an extreme risk.
It is also highly unlikely that any normal domestic premises would still
have a 1930's installation still in use, because it simply would not be
adequate and serve modern needs.

The main problems with a 1930s would be the stae of the insulation on the
cable - probably VIR. It would also have wire fuses, possibly on bothe live
& neutral/


I would suggest the vast majority (99%) of installations are at least
post 1985.

My own installation is early 1980s tidy up of, probably, 1970s wiring with
some later additions - kitchen in 1989, for instance.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Steve Walker wrote:

Ours trips more often than I'd like

Trips on mine have sometimes been a harbinger for other failure, e.g.
after an iron went POP! the tripping went away ...

On Friday, 13 July 2018 08:45:18 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:49:10 on
Thu, 12 Jul 2018, Tim Watts remarked:

As a digression, I believe the rules have now changed so a consumer
unit must be of metal construction. I assume this too is not
retrospective.

Not quite:

Must be non combustible or contained in a non combustible enclosure.

(Not sure of the exact wording but basically that ^^)

However, that has been implemented as "metal" for the most part.

Thus a really old wooden one is a no-no I suppose?

no wooden CU or wood backed CU meets current regs.


NT

On Friday, 13 July 2018 09:02:55 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
tabbypurr brought next idea :

OK. I can let the place with a 1930s electrical system then? If you say so.

That would not be appropriate and you would be taking an extreme risk.

so you accept your advice was complete bs

It is also highly unlikely that any normal domestic premises would
still have a 1930's installation still in use, because it simply would
not be adequate and serve modern needs.

I know 2 houses that still have some 1930s electrical stuff installed in them. I don't doubt there are others.

I would suggest the vast majority (99%) of installations are at least
post 1985.

more bull


NT

In message , at
01:58:18 on Fri, 13 Jul 2018, remarked:
On Friday, 13 July 2018 08:45:18 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:49:10 on
Thu, 12 Jul 2018, Tim Watts remarked:

As a digression, I believe the rules have now changed so a consumer
unit must be of metal construction. I assume this too is not
retrospective.

Not quite:

Must be non combustible or contained in a non combustible enclosure.

(Not sure of the exact wording but basically that ^^)

However, that has been implemented as "metal" for the most part.

Thus a really old wooden one is a no-no I suppose?

no wooden CU or wood backed CU meets current regs.

Including the rental-inspection regs?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:09:02 on Fri, 13 Jul
2018, Harry Bloomfield remarked:
Roland Perry wrote :
What degree of inspection occurs when a smart meter is fitted
(genuine question)? In other words is the presence of a
recently-fitted smart meter any indication the rest of the
installation is reasonably OK?

(any house, not just rental ones).

ps What's a SEAP 2001-V, almost no online footprint compared to
the 2000-V

There is no inspection, nor are they qualified to inspect.

I saw my first smart-metered installation this week (yes, I should get
out more) and I wondered if they'd at least do an earth leakage test on
a system which only had old-fashioned wired fuses.

--
Roland Perry

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 00:47:26 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

BTW, I've got lots of electronics in this house too. And never once had a
nuisance trip.

I can't remember having one either.

Alhough I do have a split load unit, all the electronic
stuff is on the RCD side.

Yup. I think I only have the lights on the non RCD side but it's been
a while since I re-wired this house.

Quite. So unless you're running some sort of computer farm from your
house, a single RCD will only do 'nuisance trips' when there is a fault or
faults.

Perish the thought you should actually find out what that fault is.

Far better to spend your time on here writing endless crap about the EU
and climate change.

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.