I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.114-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?

--
*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.114-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

Pinnerite Wrote in message:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes



Have you found any irrespective of price?

I understood all ovens vary re temperature & control thereof,
that's why you keep checking dishes in ovens & over time learn to
adapt recipes to "your" oven etc?

Eg someone with a cooler than average oven would describe it as a
"slow oven" and maybe set the temperature higher to allow for
this fact in certain culinary circumstances.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 16:04:21 UTC+1, Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.114-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

Buy one of these probes that ensure meat is cooked through.

https://www.thermometerspecialist.co...n-thermometers

On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 16:04:21 UTC+1, Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

why would any have one? Add your own if you must.

wrote
Pinnerite wrote

I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with
a digital temerature readout. None of the sites I have
visited boast of one.Anybody any useful recent experience?

why would any have one?

For the same reason some high end fridges have them.

Add your own if you must.

Rather crude compared with one with it built in.

Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut in
and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple bang
bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking performance.

On Tue, 29 May 2018 16:04:18 +0100, Pinnerite wrote:

I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Depends on your definition of 'reasonable' Bosch Serie 8 ovens are so equipped
but it is the set temperature rather than the measured with 5 deg C resolution.
There is also indication of warmup and when the temperature has reached the
actual setpoint

A large (70 litre) single pyrolytic oven was about 750 quid, a smaller (45
litre) single combination oven something nearer 500.

You'd might possibly get actual temperature measurement on an oven intended for
commercial kitchens, the only time I've actually seen it is on an environmental
test chamber (circa 1m^3) which doubled as a beer fridge and also when required
a warming oven for pasties and pies.
--

In message ,
writes
On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 16:04:21 UTC+1, Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

why would any have one? Add your own if you must.

Somewhere I have one which hooks over a shelf wire and can be seen
through the door. My caterer chooses to fly by the seat of her pants
based on previous experience.

--
Tim Lamb

On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut in
and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple bang
bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would clearly
show the variations in temperature as the control system cut in and out
causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of complaint.

And yet they have done with fridges.

I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple bang
bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 00:56:03 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 16:04:21 UTC+1, Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

why would any have one? Add your own if you must.

I did that temporarily and found the set temp was close enough within +/- 10C so didn't bother again.

I used the themoncouple sensor from a simialr to this one.
https://www.rapidonline.com/atp-dm-6...imeter-90-6561

Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message ,
writes
On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 16:04:21 UTC+1, Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

why would any have one? Add your own if you must.

Somewhere I have one which hooks over a shelf wire and can be seen
through the door. My caterer ....

Is that the wife?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Hankat wrote:


"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.

And yet they have done with fridges.

I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.


Yes, I agree they have put them in refrigeration. However my freezer
never seems to change even if the door has been opened so I assume they
take the measurement on or near the evaporator. There is also a fairly
clever processor in there that runs the auto defrost interval that is
varied according to how often the door is opened so it could also slug
the temperature readout to stop it changing when the door is opened.

On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

In message , Jim K
writes
Tim Lamb Wrote in message:
In message ,
writes
On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 16:04:21 UTC+1, Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

why would any have one? Add your own if you must.

Somewhere I have one which hooks over a shelf wire and can be seen
through the door. My caterer ....

Is that the wife?

Yes:-)


--
Tim Lamb

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

On Thu, 31 May 2018 03:05:37 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
*** Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

How do you know that small wires were involved? Could be some
non-comducting fluid device.
--
Dave W

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow it
is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.

Worked well, I almost bought one myself but didnt in the end.

Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

Nope, they dont. And its trivial to have them in a
metal jacket like you see with thermocouples anyway.

On 31/05/2018 11:05, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

It was a fairly big (I think co-axial) cable with a pointed probe on one
end to stick into the food and a 6.5mm jack-plug on the other end, with
a socket in the top of the oven to allow the probe to rotate with the
food. As the cable braid is connected to the oven metalwork, it will act
as just another part of the oven - there is no unconnected metal with a
gap between it and the oven metalwork and so no spark-gap.

SteveW

On 31/05/2018 22:07, Steve Walker wrote:
On 31/05/2018 11:05, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve WalkerÂ* wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â*Â*Â* Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow
it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

It was a fairly big (I think co-axial) cable with a pointed probe on one
end to stick into the food and a 6.5mm jack-plug on the other end, with
a socket in the top of the oven to allow the probe to rotate with the
food. As the cable braid is connected to the oven metalwork, it will act
as just another part of the oven - there is no unconnected metal with a
gap between it and the oven metalwork and so no spark-gap.

SteveW

Ah, not as thick a cable as the one I remember, but it was 20-odd years ago!

https://www.repairclinic.com/PartDet...39WRE0/1914195

SteveW

On Wed, 30 May 2018 10:40:02 +0100, Hankat wrote:



"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would clearly
show the variations in temperature as the control system cut in and out
causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of complaint.

And yet they have done with fridges.

Isn't it a damn sight easier to hold a temperature 15C away from room temperature than 180C away?

--
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. -- Mark Twain

On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:14:31 +0100, The Other Mike wrote:

On Tue, 29 May 2018 16:04:18 +0100, Pinnerite wrote:

I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Depends on your definition of 'reasonable' Bosch Serie 8 ovens are so equipped
but it is the set temperature rather than the measured with 5 deg C resolution.
There is also indication of warmup and when the temperature has reached the
actual setpoint

A large (70 litre) single pyrolytic oven was about 750 quid, a smaller (45
litre) single combination oven something nearer 500.

You'd might possibly get actual temperature measurement on an oven intended for
commercial kitchens, the only time I've actually seen it is on an environmental
test chamber (circa 1m^3) which doubled as a beer fridge and also when required
a warming oven for pasties and pies.

Nice to see putting the expensive equipment to good use.

--
Please tell your pants it's not polite to point.

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 30 May 2018 10:40:02 +0100, Hankat wrote:



"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly
show the variations in temperature as the control system cut in and out
causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of complaint.

And yet they have done with fridges.

Isn't it a damn sight easier to hold a temperature 15C away from room
temperature than 180C away?

Not when you do it with a compressor with the fridge instead of an
electrical heater with the oven.

On Thu, 31 May 2018 03:05:37 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.


I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

A similar temperature probe thing was fitted on a Belling (made by Brother)
microwave in the early 80's Connection was by something very closely resembling
a 1/4" mono audio jack and socket that penetrated the cavity wall. The
turntable having the capability to be switched off. The oven (touch wood) is
still going strong at maybe 35 years old and in fairly regular use in the
workshop.

They really built them like brick ****houses in those days.
--

In article ,
Sam wrote:
Isn't it a damn sight easier to hold a temperature 15C away from room
temperature than 180C away?

Not when you do it with a compressor with the fridge instead of an
electrical heater with the oven.

Not quite sure why. At basics, both are simply switched off when they
reach the required temperature, and on again when needed to maintain that.

--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:37:03 +1000, Sam, another troll-feeding idiot,
blabbered:


Not when you do it with a compressor with the fridge instead of an
electrical heater with the oven.

And another braindead idiot fell for the gay Scottish ******'s latest bait!
tsk

On Thursday, 31 May 2018 19:16:56 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2018 03:05:37 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

How do you know that small wires were involved? Could be some
non-comducting fluid device.

Well most temp sensors use metal in their construction.
Which is why you couldn't just put a LCD display in a microwave oven.
I doubt you could just place a thermomerter in their either un less you has a suitable one, a meriry one might explode as would a standard alcohol filled one.

In such an oven you get really rapidily changing temperatures too, and it so much depends on what you are heating. I checked the o/p of my old oven years ago. What yuo do is heat about 200ml of water for say a minute or two then measure the temerature rise and apply the specific heat capacity of water to work out teh power of the oven. You can't just stick a standard themometer in the oven.

On Thursday, 31 May 2018 22:04:36 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow it
is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well..

Worked well, I almost bought one myself but didnt in the end.

Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

Nope, they dont. And its trivial to have them in a
metal jacket like you see with thermocouples anyway.

Metal jackets aren't normally worn or placed in microwave ovens.

On Thursday, 31 May 2018 22:10:15 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 31/05/2018 22:07, Steve Walker wrote:
On 31/05/2018 11:05, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve WalkerÂ* wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Â*Â*Â*Â* Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow
it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

It was a fairly big (I think co-axial) cable with a pointed probe on one
end to stick into the food and a 6.5mm jack-plug on the other end, with
a socket in the top of the oven to allow the probe to rotate with the
food. As the cable braid is connected to the oven metalwork, it will act
as just another part of the oven - there is no unconnected metal with a
gap between it and the oven metalwork and so no spark-gap.

SteveW

Ah, not as thick a cable as the one I remember, but it was 20-odd years ago!

https://www.repairclinic.com/PartDet...39WRE0/1914195

SteveW

Not bad but it's more than I paid for my microwave oven, I'd expect to see them in poundshops like an other thermometer.

http://www.poundland.co.uk/digital-thermometer

I wonder where else you can stick it and get a valid reading ?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Sam wrote:
Isn't it a damn sight easier to hold a temperature 15C away from room
temperature than 180C away?

Not when you do it with a compressor with the fridge instead of an
electrical heater with the oven.

Not quite sure why. At basics, both are simpl1y switched off when they
reach the required temperature, and on again when needed to maintain that.

You get much finer control with the electrical heater.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 31 May 2018 19:16:56 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2018 03:05:37 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a
digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of
one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system
cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term
PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in
cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double
oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the
air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow
it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the
temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several
decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

How do you know that small wires were involved? Could be some
non-comducting fluid device.

Well most temp sensors use metal in their construction.

Not with the electronic sensors.

Which is why you couldn't just put a
LCD display in a microwave oven.

But you can put a standard thermocouple in a metal jacket in one;

I doubt you could just place a thermomerter
in their either un less you has a suitable one,

You can anyway.

a meriry one might explode

Nope.

as would a standard alcohol filled one.

Nope.

In such an oven you get really rapidily changing temperatures too,

Nope.

and it so much depends on what you are heating.

Nope.

I checked the o/p of my old oven years ago. What
yuo do is heat about 200ml of water for say a minute
or two then measure the temerature rise and apply
the specific heat capacity of water to work out teh
power of the oven. You can't just stick a standard
themometer in the oven.

Corse you can.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 31 May 2018 22:04:36 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a
digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of
one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system
cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term
PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in
cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double
oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the
air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow
it
is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the
temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several
decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that
well.

Worked well, I almost bought one myself but didnt in the end.

Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

Nope, they dont. And its trivial to have them in a
metal jacket like you see with thermocouples anyway.

Metal jackets aren't normally worn or placed in microwave ovens.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

In article ,
Sam wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Sam wrote:
Isn't it a damn sight easier to hold a temperature 15C away from room
temperature than 180C away?

Not when you do it with a compressor with the fridge instead of an
electrical heater with the oven.

Not quite sure why. At basics, both are simpl1y switched off when they
reach the required temperature, and on again when needed to maintain that.

You get much finer control with the electrical heater.

That is simply down to the thermostat design - hysteresis, etc.

--
*Corduroy pillows are making headlines.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:25:02 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Sam wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Sam wrote:
Isn't it a damn sight easier to hold a temperature 15C away from room
temperature than 180C away?

Not when you do it with a compressor with the fridge instead of an
electrical heater with the oven.

Not quite sure why. At basics, both are simpl1y switched off when they
reach the required temperature, and on again when needed to maintain that.

You get much finer control with the electrical heater.

That is simply down to the thermostat design - hysteresis, etc.

Or the compressor taking a while to get going? If I turn on a resistive element, I get heat immediately. If I turn on a compressor, a few minutes pass before cooling takes place, and another few minutes for it to stop cooling when I turn it off. Even if a fridge stat had a hysteresis of 0.00001C and the air inside the fridge was blown around by a fan, so perfectly even, it would still continue to cool after the compressor was turned off due to the thermal capacity of the coolant in the internal pipes.

--
Before you set out on a journey, ring your local radio station and say there's a terrible congestion on your road. Everybody avoids it and it's clear for you! -- Jack Dee

On Friday, 1 June 2018 11:12:37 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 31 May 2018 19:16:56 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2018 03:05:37 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:19:11 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 30/05/2018 09:24, newshound wrote:
On 30/05/2018 08:34, Bob Minchin wrote:
Pinnerite wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
I am trying to find a reasonably priced single oven with a
digital
temerature readout. None of the sites I have visited boast of
one.
Anybody any useful recent experience?

Do you mean one which reads the true temperature as measured by a
sensor,
rather than just a digital display of what it's meant to be?


Yes


I think any sensible manufacturer would not offer this as it would
clearly show the variations in temperature as the control system
cut
in and out causing some customers to be dissatisfied and letters of
complaint.
I can't imagine other than a very high end oven employing a 3 term
PID
controller when a gradual variation +/- a few degrees from a simple
bang bang controller would make no discernible difference in
cooking
performance.

I've simply got a couple of "floating" thermocouples in my double
oven
wired up to a standard display. It is interesting how rapidly the
air
temperature drops when the door is opened, and how relatively slow
it is
to recover. I regularly use an IR thermometer to check the
temperature
of the linings, and sometimes use a probe in the joint. Several
decades
ago Cannon had an oven which came with a built-in probe and display.

Not a conventional oven, but many years ago my parents had a Sharp
microwave with a temperature probe. You could set a temperature and a
time and it would heat to that temperature and then hold that
temperature for the set time.

SteveW

I wonder how that worked or was it a gimmick that didn't work that well.
Small wires would vapourise in a microwave.

How do you know that small wires were involved? Could be some
non-comducting fluid device.

Well most temp sensors use metal in their construction.

Not with the electronic sensors.

What do they sense then, try one on yourself I bet they'll indicate nosense

In article ,
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
That is simply down to the thermostat design - hysteresis, etc.

Or the compressor taking a while to get going? If I turn on a resistive
element, I get heat immediately. If I turn on a compressor, a few
minutes pass before cooling takes place, and another few minutes for it
to stop cooling when I turn it off. Even if a fridge stat had a
hysteresis of 0.00001C and the air inside the fridge was blown around by
a fan, so perfectly even, it would still continue to cool after the
compressor was turned off due to the thermal capacity of the coolant in
the internal pipes.

Thanks for confirming you don't know what hysteresis is.

--
*All generalizations are false.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:28:28 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
That is simply down to the thermostat design - hysteresis, etc.

Or the compressor taking a while to get going? If I turn on a resistive
element, I get heat immediately. If I turn on a compressor, a few
minutes pass before cooling takes place, and another few minutes for it
to stop cooling when I turn it off. Even if a fridge stat had a
hysteresis of 0.00001C and the air inside the fridge was blown around by
a fan, so perfectly even, it would still continue to cool after the
compressor was turned off due to the thermal capacity of the coolant in
the internal pipes.

Thanks for confirming you don't know what hysteresis is.

I know exactly what it is, but the sentence above suggests we're talking about THERMOSTAT hysteresis.

--
What's the German word for Vaseline?
Vienerslide.

In article ,
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:28:28 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
That is simply down to the thermostat design - hysteresis, etc.

Or the compressor taking a while to get going? If I turn on a
resistive element, I get heat immediately. If I turn on a
compressor, a few minutes pass before cooling takes place, and
another few minutes for it to stop cooling when I turn it off. Even
if a fridge stat had a hysteresis of 0.00001C and the air inside the
fridge was blown around by a fan, so perfectly even, it would still
continue to cool after the compressor was turned off due to the
thermal capacity of the coolant in the internal pipes.

Thanks for confirming you don't know what hysteresis is.

I know exactly what it is, but the sentence above suggests we're talking
about THERMOSTAT hysteresis.

If you're using a sensor with electronics to set the temperature as many
do rather than a mechanical thermostat these day, the hysteresis is what
you decide it to be.

--
*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.