On 28/04/2018 22:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go back to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff, how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.
Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than they
do now.

Not at all. Many suggested using measures that promoted efficiency such
as air-watts, where the rest of the power can be explained as waste
heat. Many vacuum cleaners don't consume the quoted power in the first
place. Without any other measure of real suction, power is all the
consumer has to go by.

The EU hasn't made things any better.

On 28/04/2018 21:27, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 21:44:04 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 28/04/2018 12:50, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:43:23 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a thermal fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for one. If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go back to not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Yes, the Brexiteers will not need transformers, just big resistors.
Probably made up from pound shop HB pencils.

For someone who says they don't know much, you don't need to keep
telling us.

R= V/I

Very little else needs to be known in the brave new world of the
Brexiteer.

Mains droppers were the order of the day for TV sets before Britain
joined the EU.

I agree, Britain led the way in promoting efficiency.

A bit wasteful of energy, but not half cheap!

Quite.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 13:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Ah - right. Yet another Brexiteer being happy with a leap into the dark
over something so inconsequential as jam jars. Perhaps it was the bent
bananas which swayed you?

Most Brexiters are aware that the classification of bananas is also
inconsequential. It doesn't make the selling of 'wonky' bananas illegal
either.

You are missing the point of why people voted for Brexit. Typical for a
Remoaner.

If only. When I ask for some concrete reasons for leaving the EU all I get
is esoteric things like sovereignty, taking back control, and the wild
hopes we'll be able to do far better deals around the world.

You seem to forget the real reasons such as a shortage of housing,
stagnation of wages being propped up by the minimum wage and a lack of
infrastructure to match the level of immigration.

And non of those much to do with the EU. Immigration from outside the EU
has never been tightly controlled either.

And it is nothing to do with the EU how many houses we build, what wages
are paid, and what infrastructure is provided. Just very convenient to
blame the EU, when the fault lies with the UK government.

--
*Haunted French pancakes give me the crepes.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29/04/2018 01:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 13:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Ah - right. Yet another Brexiteer being happy with a leap into the dark
over something so inconsequential as jam jars. Perhaps it was the bent
bananas which swayed you?

Most Brexiters are aware that the classification of bananas is also
inconsequential. It doesn't make the selling of 'wonky' bananas illegal
either.

You are missing the point of why people voted for Brexit. Typical for a
Remoaner.

If only. When I ask for some concrete reasons for leaving the EU all I get
is esoteric things like sovereignty, taking back control, and the wild
hopes we'll be able to do far better deals around the world.

You seem to forget the real reasons such as a shortage of housing,
stagnation of wages being propped up by the minimum wage and a lack of
infrastructure to match the level of immigration.

And non of those much to do with the EU. Immigration from outside the EU
has never been tightly controlled either.

And it is nothing to do with the EU how many houses we build, what wages
are paid, and what infrastructure is provided. Just very convenient to
blame the EU, when the fault lies with the UK government.

Whilst I agree it is the largely the fault of 3 sets of governments,
there was no other solution. None of the governments has put in place
policies to cope with change.

I do take issue with wages. They have stagnated due to immigration. You
can deny this as much as you like, but only now are businesses
complaining of potential shortages, which is a recipe for increased
wages in the future.

Things are moving in the right direction for those who work. For those
who don't, well, they make little contribution to the nation's wealth.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 13:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Ah - right. Yet another Brexiteer being happy with a leap into the
dark
over something so inconsequential as jam jars. Perhaps it was the
bent
bananas which swayed you?

Most Brexiters are aware that the classification of bananas is also
inconsequential. It doesn't make the selling of 'wonky' bananas
illegal
either.

You are missing the point of why people voted for Brexit. Typical for
a
Remoaner.

If only. When I ask for some concrete reasons for leaving the EU all I
get
is esoteric things like sovereignty, taking back control, and the wild
hopes we'll be able to do far better deals around the world.

You seem to forget the real reasons such as a shortage of housing,
stagnation of wages being propped up by the minimum wage
and a lack of infrastructure to match the level of immigration.

And non of those much to do with the EU.

The free movement of EU citizens into Britain obviously does.

Immigration from outside the EU has
never been tightly controlled either.

It has been much more controlled that immigration from the EU.

And it is nothing to do with the EU how many houses we
build, what wages are paid, and what infrastructure is provided.

That’s a lie with the wages that are paid above the legal minimum
wage when so many EUians show up in Britain because the wages
they are paid are so much better than where they are coming from.

Just very convenient to blame the EU

They are the ones that forced the free movement of EUians on Britain.

when the fault lies with the UK government.

Even more flagrantly dishonest than you
usually manage, and that’s saying something.

On 29/04/2018 00:34, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 22:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go
back to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff,
how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.
Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than
they do now.

Not at all. Many suggested using measures that promoted efficiency such
as air-watts, where the rest of the power can be explained as waste
heat. Many vacuum cleaners don't consume the quoted power in the first
place. Without any other measure of real suction, power is all the
consumer has to go by.

That is yet another brexiteer lie, the rules also increased the required
level of efficiency to pass the tests. That is for the brexiteers.. they
had to use less power and suck better.


The EU hasn't made things any better.

A nice bold statement there and as usual complete ********.

On 29/04/2018 09:40, dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2018 00:34, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 22:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp"
wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a
thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement
for one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go
back to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper
stuff, how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.
Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than
they do now.

Not at all. Many suggested using measures that promoted efficiency
such as air-watts, where the rest of the power can be explained as
waste heat. Many vacuum cleaners don't consume the quoted power in the
first place. Without any other measure of real suction, power is all
the consumer has to go by.

That is yet another brexiteer lie

No, its a Remoaner being in denial.

, the rules also increased the required
level of efficiency to pass the tests. That is for the brexiteers.. they
had to use less power and suck better.

No its a rmeoaner denial that Brexiters were right in the first place.

The EU hasn't made things any better.

A nice bold statement there

Quite

snip

On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:19:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go back to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff, how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.

Not by unelected bureaucrats that don’t have
a ****ing clue about anything at all, it doesn’t.

Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than they do
now.

Bull****. My Ryobi 2KW wet and dry does a
hell of a lot better job than what it replaced.

The Sebo 1400W one I bought 6 years ago was just as powerful as the 2kW
ones.

Bull****.

I found exactly the same thing.

Actually the 1.4kW has a smaller suction opening on the floor cleaning
tool, so the thing has far mure suction than my 2kW

The difference was better design.

The consumers should be free to buy what they decide
performs better. No unelected bureaucrat should be able
to tell them what they can't buy with vacuum cleaners.


They are free to buy what rubbish they want now. I would hazard a
guess that for those that want power there are 3 phase units
available.

One has only to look at the number of "cordless" vacs on the market to
see how dim consumers are.

Idiots cannot simply be penalised for wastage by the cost of power as
there are a lot of people who struggle to pay for even the basics such
as heat & light.

If consumers don't behave responsibly and waste energy, then I would
happily vote for the EU if it stood for election in my town.

Everything that I used to/ wished to buy that was banned under EU regs
seems to be available on Ebay anyway, apart from looking up powerful
vac's [when I bought my Karcher] and sodium chlorate, I got to
thinking, did some research and decided that the "outlawed" items were
a complete waste.

These things affect others incidentally, not just the consumer buying
them.



British designed vacs were cr@p by comparison.

Consumers should be free to buy
what they like with vacuum cleaners.

At least they are now competing.

In fact you can still buy the best performing vacs as long as you
arent in the EU and Britain will be able to once it leaves too.


You can buy them in Britain now. Don't mistake power input for
performance.

Buying 500W/h of power from your local power company merely to wake
your neighbours up in the morning is not improved performance.

Now doubt the ardent Brexiters will also find that they can buy none
EU approved two foot exhausts for the Fiesta, making it instantly
"more powerful".





I bought a Karcher WD3 Wet and dry, lower power [1400W], that is just as
powerful. Had the WD3 been going when I bought the Miele, it would have
been the preferred purchase.

The last vac I bought was 1200w and it is by far the best from a suction
point of view, but it is a Bosh GAS25 so it should.

Its just proof that reducing the power requirements hasn't stopped vacs
from performing but it has driven a lot of cr@p one off the market.

Irrelevant to whether some unelected bureaucrat should have
any say what so ever on what vacuum cleaner you can buy.

Someone needs to act with a common voice on these issues. The effect
on one, two or even a few thousand consumers isn't great, but when an
entire continent acts it reduces the need for fossil fuels and reduces
stress on families and colleagues.

If Britain didn't like the imposition, then we do have MEP's.

Perhaps you should ask Farage how he voted on energy issues:-)

AB

On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 10:30:15 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 29/04/2018 09:40, dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2018 00:34, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 22:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp"
wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a
thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement
for one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go
back to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper
stuff, how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.
Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than
they do now.

Not at all. Many suggested using measures that promoted efficiency
such as air-watts, where the rest of the power can be explained as
waste heat. Many vacuum cleaners don't consume the quoted power in the
first place. Without any other measure of real suction, power is all
the consumer has to go by.

That is yet another brexiteer lie

No, its a Remoaner being in denial.

, the rules also increased the required
level of efficiency to pass the tests. That is for the brexiteers.. they
had to use less power and suck better.

No its a rmeoaner denial that Brexiters were right in the first place.

The EU hasn't made things any better.

A nice bold statement there

Quite

snip


Well, me Karcher sucks better, uses less power [monitored], and was a
damn sight cheaper, although it seems like it was pressed from a sheet
of plastic.

One up for the EU.

If only they could come up with some EU standards for educating
subnormal idiots.

I still remember the Goblin, a British pile of crud that gave some
occupants of Fairyland a bad name.

AB

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
You seem to forget the real reasons such as a shortage of housing,
stagnation of wages being propped up by the minimum wage and a lack of
infrastructure to match the level of immigration.

And non of those much to do with the EU. Immigration from outside the EU
has never been tightly controlled either.

And it is nothing to do with the EU how many houses we build, what wages
are paid, and what infrastructure is provided. Just very convenient to
blame the EU, when the fault lies with the UK government.

Whilst I agree it is the largely the fault of 3 sets of governments,
there was no other solution. None of the governments has put in place
policies to cope with change.

OK. So if big business persuades the government of the day it needs this
supply of 'cheap' labour via immigrants, are you saying they will stick to
their promise of reducing immigration substantially? History says
different. Every recent government has promised to reduce immigration in
response to the demands from some of the public, then do virtually zero.
Trying to re-patriate a few thousand so called illegals would only be a
drop in the ocean.

I do take issue with wages. They have stagnated due to immigration. You
can deny this as much as you like, but only now are businesses
complaining of potential shortages, which is a recipe for increased
wages in the future.

The main reason for stagnant wages is the lack of effective unions. You
only have to look at those areas which still have effective unions to
prove the point. And it really does bring a wry smile to my face - all
these right wingers blaming low wages on immigration when it is *exactly*
what they want to maintain. Immigration or not.

Things are moving in the right direction for those who work. For those
who don't, well, they make little contribution to the nation's wealth.

Odd that pensioners have been well protected from this wages cut in real
terms. Perhaps you think they contribute to the nation's wealth?

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 22:57, dennis@home wrote:

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push. Vacuums
were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than they do
now.

Not at all. Many suggested using measures that promoted efficiency such
as air-watts, where the rest of the power can be explained as waste
heat. Many vacuum cleaners don't consume the quoted power in the first
place. Without any other measure of real suction, power is all the
consumer has to go by.

The EU hasn't made things any better.

If a manufacturer can't make a vacuum that works well with the new maximum
power limit it will go out of business. Since it has already been
demonstrated that it is a more than adequate amount by some.

Trying to devise some complicated formula for vacuum cleaner performance
just muddies the waters. Making it easier for makers to fiddle - claiming
it passed all the tests in their lab. Think emission testing with some
cars.

A simple maximum wattage is extremely easy to verify.

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29/04/2018 11:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Odd that pensioners have been well protected from this wages cut in real
terms. Perhaps you think they contribute to the nation's wealth?


We pay tax the same as you.

On 29/04/2018 11:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
You seem to forget the real reasons such as a shortage of housing,
stagnation of wages being propped up by the minimum wage and a lack of
infrastructure to match the level of immigration.

And non of those much to do with the EU. Immigration from outside the EU
has never been tightly controlled either.

And it is nothing to do with the EU how many houses we build, what wages
are paid, and what infrastructure is provided. Just very convenient to
blame the EU, when the fault lies with the UK government.

Whilst I agree it is the largely the fault of 3 sets of governments,
there was no other solution. None of the governments has put in place
policies to cope with change.

OK. So if big business persuades the government of the day it needs this
supply of 'cheap' labour via immigrants, are you saying they will stick to
their promise of reducing immigration substantially? History says
different. Every recent government has promised to reduce immigration in
response to the demands from some of the public, then do virtually zero.

And Brexit is the consequence of failed promises.

Trying to re-patriate a few thousand so called illegals would only be a
drop in the ocean.

I do take issue with wages. They have stagnated due to immigration. You
can deny this as much as you like, but only now are businesses
complaining of potential shortages, which is a recipe for increased
wages in the future.

The main reason for stagnant wages is the lack of effective unions. You
only have to look at those areas which still have effective unions to
prove the point. And it really does bring a wry smile to my face - all
these right wingers blaming low wages on immigration when it is *exactly*
what they want to maintain. Immigration or not.

Nonsense, if anything strong unions push manufacture and processes
abroad and stem investment.

What pushes up wages is demand in labour. Simple supply and demand. Not
overnight, all things take time.

Things are moving in the right direction for those who work. For those
who don't, well, they make little contribution to the nation's wealth.

Odd that pensioners have been well protected from this wages cut in real
terms. Perhaps you think they contribute to the nation's wealth?

Agreed, the power of pensioners who are more likely to vote. I would be
happy to remove the ratchet with wages and inflation.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2018 11:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Odd that pensioners have been well protected from this wages cut in real
terms. Perhaps you think they contribute to the nation's wealth?


We pay tax the same as you.

Me as a pensioner?

Perhaps you might read what I was replying to. To get the full picture.

--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
OK. So if big business persuades the government of the day it needs
this supply of 'cheap' labour via immigrants, are you saying they will
stick to their promise of reducing immigration substantially? History
says different. Every recent government has promised to reduce
immigration in response to the demands from some of the public, then
do virtually zero.

And Brexit is the consequence of failed promises.

You want to replace 'failed promises' with even more? How very very odd.

Trying to re-patriate a few thousand so called illegals would only be a
drop in the ocean.

I do take issue with wages. They have stagnated due to immigration.
You can deny this as much as you like, but only now are businesses
complaining of potential shortages, which is a recipe for increased
wages in the future.

The main reason for stagnant wages is the lack of effective unions.
You only have to look at those areas which still have effective unions
to prove the point. And it really does bring a wry smile to my face -
all these right wingers blaming low wages on immigration when it is
*exactly* what they want to maintain. Immigration or not.

Nonsense, if anything strong unions push manufacture and processes
abroad and stem investment.

That'll be why all the foreign owned car makers in the UK are unionised,
then?

What pushes up wages is demand in labour. Simple supply and demand. Not
overnight, all things take time.

So the boasts of this government about the high levels of employment in
the UK are so many lies?

Collective bargaining has already been proved to work for establishing the
best pay for a job. But as I said this is exactly what right wingers
*don't* want. Apart from paying lip service to it when it suits them, as
in Brexit.



Things are moving in the right direction for those who work. For
those who don't, well, they make little contribution to the nation's
wealth.

Odd that pensioners have been well protected from this wages cut in
real terms. Perhaps you think they contribute to the nation's wealth?

Agreed, the power of pensioners who are more likely to vote. I would be
happy to remove the ratchet with wages and inflation.

Be interesting how you would set the pension rate. Perhaps an independant
body like the one which sets MP's pay and expenses etc would be the better
way.

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/04/2018 09:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:48, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 23:16, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 22:04, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one. If not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go back
to not having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.


Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff,
how are we going to do that without ignoring safety?

I don't recall this? If so a very small minority might have made such
an assertion.

We won't be competing in the semi closed EU market but the world
markets with all the other cheap manufacturers like india and china.

We don't currently compete that well now, in buying more from the EU
than we sell.

Brexit was never about these things that sore loser Remoaners bang on
about.

No its all about some wishy washy excuse called sovereignty which as
can be seen from many of the posts here means "we hate foreigners".

That's right, the important things.

Housing shortages, stagnating wages and the lack of infrastructure to
match immigration. As a Remoaner you are free to interpret these
fundamental issues as "we hate foreigners", but it goes to show how in
denial the likes of you are to change in the UK.

Since you already own a house and don't work, I can see why you might be
Remoaning.

Not one liever here has been able to say what they actually mean by
sovereignty and what they actually think they are getting back.

Yes, they have repeatedly said what is meant, where Parliament can enact
laws they choose, and not those thrust upon them.


and you believe all the problems in blighty are due to immigration?
wot a dickhead

On 29/04/2018 14:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2018 11:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Odd that pensioners have been well protected from this wages cut in real
terms. Perhaps you think they contribute to the nation's wealth?


We pay tax the same as you.

Me as a pensioner?

Perhaps you might read what I was replying to. To get the full picture.


No me as a pensioner.
I will pay even more if I manage to get to state pension age.
I suppose Corbin could bribe us by making the state pension tax free. 8-)

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:19:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote
in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a
thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go back
to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff,
how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.

Not by unelected bureaucrats that don't have
a ****ing clue about anything at all, it doesn't.

Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than they
do
now.

Bull****. My Ryobi 2KW wet and dry does a
hell of a lot better job than what it replaced.

The Sebo 1400W one I bought 6 years ago was just as powerful as the 2kW
ones.

Bull****.

I found exactly the same thing.

You proved that you didn't in the next para.

Actually the 1.4kW has a smaller suction opening on the floor
cleaning tool, so the thing has far mure suction than my 2kW

But is less powerful because it can't suck up so much
at once, most obviously in wet mode and when being
used with tools like when chasing walls etc etc etc.

The difference was better design.

The consumers should be free to buy what they decide
performs better. No unelected bureaucrat should be able
to tell them what they can't buy with vacuum cleaners.

They are free to buy what rubbish they want now.

No they arent if they want a 2KW+ vac and are in the EU.

I would hazard a guess that for those that want
power there are 3 phase units available.

Useless when they don't have 3 phase power. Makes
a lot more sense to have a 2KW+ vac instead.

One has only to look at the number of "cordless"
vacs on the market to see how dim consumers are.

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense at all to have
some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels telling them that
they can't buy one class of vacs if they are in the EU.

Idiots cannot simply be penalised for wastage by the
cost of power as there are a lot of people who struggle
to pay for even the basics such as heat & light.

Only a terminal ****wit would propose penalising those
who choose to buy what they buy consumer product wise.

If consumers don't behave responsibly and waste energy, then I
would happily vote for the EU if it stood for election in my town.

Yes, you have always been that terminal a ****wit. With complete freedom
of movement of even the dregs of the EU within the EU in spades.

Everything that I used to/ wished to buy that was banned under
EU regs seems to be available on Ebay anyway, apart from looking
up powerful vac's [when I bought my Karcher] and sodium chlorate,

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense what so ever to allow some
unelected bureaucrat in Brussels to decide what you can and cannot buy.

I got to thinking, did some research and decided
that the "outlawed" items were a complete waste.

Yes, you are that terminal a ****wit, most obviously with
paint, paint stripper, wood preservatives, vacuum cleaners,
pesticides, insecticides and a host of other stuff the EU bans.

These things affect others incidentally,
not just the consumer buying them.

Just as true of how many kids you have. Even you arent
actually stupid enough to propose allowing some unelected
bureaucrat in Brussels telling you how many you should have.

British designed vacs were cr@p by comparison.

Consumers should be free to buy
what they like with vacuum cleaners.

At least they are now competing.

In fact you can still buy the best performing vacs as long as you
arent in the EU and Britain will be able to once it leaves too.

You can buy them in Britain now.

No you can not.

Don't mistake power input for performance.

You wouldn't know what real performance with a
vacuum cleaner was if it bit you on your lard arse.

Buying 500W/h of power from your local power company merely to
wake your neighbours up in the morning is not improved performance.

None of my neighbours gets woken by my much noisier power tools,
let alone by the vacuum cleaner you clowns can't have in the EU.

I bought a Karcher WD3 Wet and dry, lower power [1400W],
that is just as powerful. Had the WD3 been going when I
bought the Miele, it would have been the preferred purchase.

The last vac I bought was 1200w and it is by far the best from
a suction point of view, but it is a Bosh GAS25 so it should.

Its just proof that reducing the power requirements hasn't stopped vacs
from performing but it has driven a lot of cr@p one off the market.

Irrelevant to whether some unelected bureaucrat should have
any say what so ever on what vacuum cleaner you can buy.

Someone needs to act with a common voice on these issues.

Bull****. And it makes no sense for it to be an unelected bureaucrat anyway.

The effect on one, two or even a few thousand consumers isn't great,

Isnt worth worrying about in fact with something
used as intermittently as a vacuum cleaner.

but when an entire continent acts it reduces the need for fossil fuels

The ban on some vacs doesn't do that.

and reduces stress on families and colleagues.

Or that either.

If Britain didn't like the imposition, then we do have MEP's.

Who have no capacity to do anything about what some
unelected bureaucrat chooses to impose on the EU.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 05:53:55 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:19:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote
in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a
thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go back
to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff,
how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.

Not by unelected bureaucrats that don't have
a ****ing clue about anything at all, it doesn't.

Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than they
do
now.

Bull****. My Ryobi 2KW wet and dry does a
hell of a lot better job than what it replaced.

The Sebo 1400W one I bought 6 years ago was just as powerful as the 2kW
ones.

Bull****.

I found exactly the same thing.

You proved that you didn't in the next para.

Actually the 1.4kW has a smaller suction opening on the floor
cleaning tool, so the thing has far mure suction than my 2kW

But is less powerful because it can't suck up so much
at once, most obviously in wet mode and when being
used with tools like when chasing walls etc etc etc.

The difference was better design.

The consumers should be free to buy what they decide
performs better. No unelected bureaucrat should be able
to tell them what they can't buy with vacuum cleaners.

They are free to buy what rubbish they want now.

No they arent if they want a 2KW+ vac and are in the EU.

I would hazard a guess that for those that want
power there are 3 phase units available.

Useless when they don't have 3 phase power. Makes
a lot more sense to have a 2KW+ vac instead.

One has only to look at the number of "cordless"
vacs on the market to see how dim consumers are.

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense at all to have
some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels telling them that
they can't buy one class of vacs if they are in the EU.

Idiots cannot simply be penalised for wastage by the
cost of power as there are a lot of people who struggle
to pay for even the basics such as heat & light.

Only a terminal ****wit would propose penalising those
who choose to buy what they buy consumer product wise.

If consumers don't behave responsibly and waste energy, then I
would happily vote for the EU if it stood for election in my town.

Yes, you have always been that terminal a ****wit. With complete freedom
of movement of even the dregs of the EU within the EU in spades.

Everything that I used to/ wished to buy that was banned under
EU regs seems to be available on Ebay anyway, apart from looking
up powerful vac's [when I bought my Karcher] and sodium chlorate,

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense what so ever to allow some
unelected bureaucrat in Brussels to decide what you can and cannot buy.

I got to thinking, did some research and decided
that the "outlawed" items were a complete waste.

Yes, you are that terminal a ****wit, most obviously with
paint, paint stripper, wood preservatives, vacuum cleaners,
pesticides, insecticides and a host of other stuff the EU bans.

These things affect others incidentally,
not just the consumer buying them.

Just as true of how many kids you have. Even you arent
actually stupid enough to propose allowing some unelected
bureaucrat in Brussels telling you how many you should have.

British designed vacs were cr@p by comparison.

Consumers should be free to buy
what they like with vacuum cleaners.

At least they are now competing.

In fact you can still buy the best performing vacs as long as you
arent in the EU and Britain will be able to once it leaves too.

You can buy them in Britain now.

No you can not.

Don't mistake power input for performance.

You wouldn't know what real performance with a
vacuum cleaner was if it bit you on your lard arse.

Buying 500W/h of power from your local power company merely to
wake your neighbours up in the morning is not improved performance.

None of my neighbours gets woken by my much noisier power tools,
let alone by the vacuum cleaner you clowns can't have in the EU.

I bought a Karcher WD3 Wet and dry, lower power [1400W],
that is just as powerful. Had the WD3 been going when I
bought the Miele, it would have been the preferred purchase.

The last vac I bought was 1200w and it is by far the best from
a suction point of view, but it is a Bosh GAS25 so it should.

Its just proof that reducing the power requirements hasn't stopped vacs
from performing but it has driven a lot of cr@p one off the market.

Irrelevant to whether some unelected bureaucrat should have
any say what so ever on what vacuum cleaner you can buy.

Someone needs to act with a common voice on these issues.

Bull****. And it makes no sense for it to be an unelected bureaucrat anyway.

The effect on one, two or even a few thousand consumers isn't great,

Isnt worth worrying about in fact with something
used as intermittently as a vacuum cleaner.

but when an entire continent acts it reduces the need for fossil fuels

The ban on some vacs doesn't do that.

and reduces stress on families and colleagues.

Or that either.

If Britain didn't like the imposition, then we do have MEP's.

Who have no capacity to do anything about what some
unelected bureaucrat chooses to impose on the EU.

You really should try the Guardian or Independent.

Strange how Ireland manages to have an input into the EU, while
Britain "tows the line".

Could it be because the Tories are simply born liars looking to blame
anyone for their incompetence. The EU and immigration are classics.

It seems like Rudds lies have caught up with her. Not a good idea to
send the Windrush generation back, they were generally accepted as
being "good eggs".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting...European_Union

AB

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 07:23:57 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message news
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 05:53:55 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:19:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote
in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a
thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go
back
to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff,
how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.

Not by unelected bureaucrats that don't have
a ****ing clue about anything at all, it doesn't.

Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than
they
do
now.

Bull****. My Ryobi 2KW wet and dry does a
hell of a lot better job than what it replaced.

The Sebo 1400W one I bought 6 years ago was just as powerful as the
2kW
ones.

Bull****.

I found exactly the same thing.

You proved that you didn't in the next para.

Actually the 1.4kW has a smaller suction opening on the floor
cleaning tool, so the thing has far mure suction than my 2kW

But is less powerful because it can't suck up so much
at once, most obviously in wet mode and when being
used with tools like when chasing walls etc etc etc.

The difference was better design.

The consumers should be free to buy what they decide
performs better. No unelected bureaucrat should be able
to tell them what they can't buy with vacuum cleaners.

They are free to buy what rubbish they want now.

No they arent if they want a 2KW+ vac and are in the EU.

I would hazard a guess that for those that want
power there are 3 phase units available.

Useless when they don't have 3 phase power. Makes
a lot more sense to have a 2KW+ vac instead.

One has only to look at the number of "cordless"
vacs on the market to see how dim consumers are.

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense at all to have
some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels telling them that
they can't buy one class of vacs if they are in the EU.

Idiots cannot simply be penalised for wastage by the
cost of power as there are a lot of people who struggle
to pay for even the basics such as heat & light.

Only a terminal ****wit would propose penalising those
who choose to buy what they buy consumer product wise.

If consumers don't behave responsibly and waste energy, then I
would happily vote for the EU if it stood for election in my town.

Yes, you have always been that terminal a ****wit. With complete freedom
of movement of even the dregs of the EU within the EU in spades.

Everything that I used to/ wished to buy that was banned under
EU regs seems to be available on Ebay anyway, apart from looking
up powerful vac's [when I bought my Karcher] and sodium chlorate,

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense what so ever to allow some
unelected bureaucrat in Brussels to decide what you can and cannot buy.

I got to thinking, did some research and decided
that the "outlawed" items were a complete waste.

Yes, you are that terminal a ****wit, most obviously with
paint, paint stripper, wood preservatives, vacuum cleaners,
pesticides, insecticides and a host of other stuff the EU bans.

These things affect others incidentally,
not just the consumer buying them.

Just as true of how many kids you have. Even you arent
actually stupid enough to propose allowing some unelected
bureaucrat in Brussels telling you how many you should have.

British designed vacs were cr@p by comparison.

Consumers should be free to buy
what they like with vacuum cleaners.

At least they are now competing.

In fact you can still buy the best performing vacs as long as you
arent in the EU and Britain will be able to once it leaves too.

You can buy them in Britain now.

No you can not.

Don't mistake power input for performance.

You wouldn't know what real performance with a
vacuum cleaner was if it bit you on your lard arse.

Buying 500W/h of power from your local power company merely to
wake your neighbours up in the morning is not improved performance.

None of my neighbours gets woken by my much noisier power tools,
let alone by the vacuum cleaner you clowns can't have in the EU.

I bought a Karcher WD3 Wet and dry, lower power [1400W],
that is just as powerful. Had the WD3 been going when I
bought the Miele, it would have been the preferred purchase.

The last vac I bought was 1200w and it is by far the best from
a suction point of view, but it is a Bosh GAS25 so it should.

Its just proof that reducing the power requirements hasn't stopped
vacs
from performing but it has driven a lot of cr@p one off the market.

Irrelevant to whether some unelected bureaucrat should have
any say what so ever on what vacuum cleaner you can buy.

Someone needs to act with a common voice on these issues.

Bull****. And it makes no sense for it to be an unelected bureaucrat
anyway.

The effect on one, two or even a few thousand consumers isn't great,

Isnt worth worrying about in fact with something
used as intermittently as a vacuum cleaner.

but when an entire continent acts it reduces the need for fossil fuels

The ban on some vacs doesn't do that.

and reduces stress on families and colleagues.

Or that either.

If Britain didn't like the imposition, then we do have MEP's.

Who have no capacity to do anything about what some
unelected bureaucrat chooses to impose on the EU.

You really should try the Guardian or Independent.

Don't bother with any of those dinosaur **** rags anymore.

Strange how Ireland manages to have an input into the EU,

Not on what some stupid bureaucrat in
Brussels chooses to impose they don't.

I don't pay directly for water in Ireland, I have no choice in the UK.

No MEP can even write any legislation and see if they can
get enough other MEPs to agree with it to have it legislated,
the most they ever get to do is sign off on what some
unelected bureaucrat puts before the EP or reject it if enough
MEPs decide to do that. How stunningly democratic.

while Britain "tows the line".

Its "toes the line".

And Britain does, it has just decided to leave.

Only the idiots


Could it be because the Tories are simply born liars
looking to blame anyone for their incompetence.

How odd that most of what most in Britain object to
about the EU was done under Labour.
They object to migrants and asylum seekers.

They are simply wrong. The potteries rejected the EU bcause of Polish
workers entering the pottery industry.

The pottery industry was finished 20 years back when Staffordshire
companies sold off the production machinery to Malasia and similar.

The EU and immigration are classics.

Its no lie that the EU prevents Britain from being selective
about which EUians are allowed to move to Britain.

Why not, freedom of movement, although I believe Blair was
instrumental in accepting East Europeans into the UK.

We need those people anyway, what's the problem?


It seems like Rudds lies have caught up with her. Not
a good idea to send the Windrush generation back,
they were generally accepted as being "good eggs".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting...European_Union

Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

You said they were undemocratic.

AB

On 28/04/2018 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


The Scots, Welsh and Irish have long complained
Yep they certainly have. But at least the Welsh have their own language
so us Yorkshire men do not have to talk to them:-)


--
Adam

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message news
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 05:53:55 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:19:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote
in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a
thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go
back
to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff,
how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.

Not by unelected bureaucrats that don't have
a ****ing clue about anything at all, it doesn't.

Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than
they
do
now.

Bull****. My Ryobi 2KW wet and dry does a
hell of a lot better job than what it replaced.

The Sebo 1400W one I bought 6 years ago was just as powerful as the
2kW
ones.

Bull****.

I found exactly the same thing.

You proved that you didn't in the next para.

Actually the 1.4kW has a smaller suction opening on the floor
cleaning tool, so the thing has far mure suction than my 2kW

But is less powerful because it can't suck up so much
at once, most obviously in wet mode and when being
used with tools like when chasing walls etc etc etc.

The difference was better design.

The consumers should be free to buy what they decide
performs better. No unelected bureaucrat should be able
to tell them what they can't buy with vacuum cleaners.

They are free to buy what rubbish they want now.

No they arent if they want a 2KW+ vac and are in the EU.

I would hazard a guess that for those that want
power there are 3 phase units available.

Useless when they don't have 3 phase power. Makes
a lot more sense to have a 2KW+ vac instead.

One has only to look at the number of "cordless"
vacs on the market to see how dim consumers are.

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense at all to have
some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels telling them that
they can't buy one class of vacs if they are in the EU.

Idiots cannot simply be penalised for wastage by the
cost of power as there are a lot of people who struggle
to pay for even the basics such as heat & light.

Only a terminal ****wit would propose penalising those
who choose to buy what they buy consumer product wise.

If consumers don't behave responsibly and waste energy, then I
would happily vote for the EU if it stood for election in my town.

Yes, you have always been that terminal a ****wit. With complete freedom
of movement of even the dregs of the EU within the EU in spades.

Everything that I used to/ wished to buy that was banned under
EU regs seems to be available on Ebay anyway, apart from looking
up powerful vac's [when I bought my Karcher] and sodium chlorate,

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense what so ever to allow some
unelected bureaucrat in Brussels to decide what you can and cannot buy.

I got to thinking, did some research and decided
that the "outlawed" items were a complete waste.

Yes, you are that terminal a ****wit, most obviously with
paint, paint stripper, wood preservatives, vacuum cleaners,
pesticides, insecticides and a host of other stuff the EU bans.

These things affect others incidentally,
not just the consumer buying them.

Just as true of how many kids you have. Even you arent
actually stupid enough to propose allowing some unelected
bureaucrat in Brussels telling you how many you should have.

British designed vacs were cr@p by comparison.

Consumers should be free to buy
what they like with vacuum cleaners.

At least they are now competing.

In fact you can still buy the best performing vacs as long as you
arent in the EU and Britain will be able to once it leaves too.

You can buy them in Britain now.

No you can not.

Don't mistake power input for performance.

You wouldn't know what real performance with a
vacuum cleaner was if it bit you on your lard arse.

Buying 500W/h of power from your local power company merely to
wake your neighbours up in the morning is not improved performance.

None of my neighbours gets woken by my much noisier power tools,
let alone by the vacuum cleaner you clowns can't have in the EU.

I bought a Karcher WD3 Wet and dry, lower power [1400W],
that is just as powerful. Had the WD3 been going when I
bought the Miele, it would have been the preferred purchase.

The last vac I bought was 1200w and it is by far the best from
a suction point of view, but it is a Bosh GAS25 so it should.

Its just proof that reducing the power requirements hasn't stopped
vacs
from performing but it has driven a lot of cr@p one off the market.

Irrelevant to whether some unelected bureaucrat should have
any say what so ever on what vacuum cleaner you can buy.

Someone needs to act with a common voice on these issues.

Bull****. And it makes no sense for it to be an unelected bureaucrat
anyway.

The effect on one, two or even a few thousand consumers isn't great,

Isnt worth worrying about in fact with something
used as intermittently as a vacuum cleaner.

but when an entire continent acts it reduces the need for fossil fuels

The ban on some vacs doesn't do that.

and reduces stress on families and colleagues.

Or that either.

If Britain didn't like the imposition, then we do have MEP's.

Who have no capacity to do anything about what some
unelected bureaucrat chooses to impose on the EU.

You really should try the Guardian or Independent.

Don't bother with any of those dinosaur **** rags anymore.

Strange how Ireland manages to have an input into the EU,

Not on what some stupid bureaucrat in
Brussels chooses to impose they don't.

No MEP can even write any legislation and see if they can
get enough other MEPs to agree with it to have it legislated,
the most they ever get to do is sign off on what some
unelected bureaucrat puts before the EP or reject it if enough
MEPs decide to do that. How stunningly democratic.

while Britain "tows the line".

Its "toes the line".

And Britain does, it has just decided to leave.

Could it be because the Tories are simply born liars
looking to blame anyone for their incompetence.

How odd that most of what most in Britain object to
about the EU was done under Labour.

The EU and immigration are classics.

Its no lie that the EU prevents Britain from being selective
about which EUians are allowed to move to Britain.

It seems like Rudds lies have caught up with her. Not
a good idea to send the Windrush generation back,
they were generally accepted as being "good eggs".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting...European_Union

Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

On 29/04/2018 15:10, critcher wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/04/2018 09:48, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 23:16, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 22:04, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a
thermal fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement for
one. If not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go back
to not having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.


Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper stuff,
how are we going to do that without ignoring safety?

I don't recall this? If so a very small minority might have made
such an assertion.

We won't be competing in the semi closed EU market but the world
markets with all the other cheap manufacturers like india and china.

We don't currently compete that well now, in buying more from the EU
than we sell.

Brexit was never about these things that sore loser Remoaners bang
on about.

No its all about some wishy washy excuse called sovereignty which as
can be seen from many of the posts here means "we hate foreigners".

That's right, the important things.

Housing shortages, stagnating wages and the lack of infrastructure to
match immigration. As a Remoaner you are free to interpret these
fundamental issues as "we hate foreigners", but it goes to show how in
denial the likes of you are to change in the UK.

Since you already own a house and don't work, I can see why you might
be Remoaning.

Not one liever here has been able to say what they actually mean by
sovereignty and what they actually think they are getting back.

Yes, they have repeatedly said what is meant, where Parliament can
enact laws they choose, and not those thrust upon them.


and you believe all the problems in blighty are due to immigration?
wot a dickhead

The only dickhead is the one asserting that belief.

On 29/04/18 21:36, ARW wrote:
On 28/04/2018 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


The Scots, Welsh and Irish have long complained
Yep they certainly have. But at least the Welsh have their own language
so us Yorkshire men do not have to talk to them:-)

Thanks for that.

On 27/04/2018 08:08, Ian wrote:
On 2018-04-27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) formulated the question :
Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a thermal fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the transformer
overheated.

Thermal fuses I think are a recent thing, I rather think is a rather
old transformer.

Actually the transformer itself looks to be ok, and probably wasn't too
bothered by the overload. Is it possible the LV bell wire got hot enough
to melt through the PVC insulation and cause a short on some of that mains
wiring it was tangled with?

It was almost certainly the bell wire that got red hot from a dead short
and started to burn without seriously inconveniencing the transformer.

They are very lucky that the MCB did eventually trip to cut the power.
It must have been touch and go at one point judging by the charring.

I have seen a similar near miss where a malfunctioning oil fired boiler
vent was allowing flames and/or very hot smoke to escape onto wood above
it. Luckily the escaping gasses also heated up the mains feed to the
boiler and when the charring was sufficient it took out the MCB.

The other interesting one was CH valve failed with water dripping down a
wall and getting a mains socket with a plug in it wet. The charring from
that was impressive - although the carpet underneath was soaking wet and
so able to cope with the shower of red hot carbon embers dropping down
onto it (old style house wiring with 30A fused ring main and no MCB).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 27/04/2018 19:03, ARW wrote:
On 26/04/2018 21:48, Graham. wrote:
OK so they removed a door chime to plaster a wall.

No big deal, however they did not know that it was powered by a mains
powered transformer that was under insulation.

No attempt was made to isolate the bell wires and IMHO for the last two
days the bell wires have been touching resulting in the transformer
overheating and causing a small fire that took out several T&E lighting
cables before the MCB tripped.

The yellowish insulation is the old stuff, the 300mm new brown stuff was
placed over the old stuff back in November.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/d/dc/Doorbell1.jpg
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/4/4e/Doorbell2.jpg
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/1/10/Doorbell3.jpg
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/0/0e/Doorbell4.jpg

Lucky *******s looking at the scorch marks on that timbers.

One other point/question. The insulation has turned white where the most
heat was. Any ideas why?

Good greif, that's scary. Was there a secondary side fuse inside?



Well the apprentice mistook "Leave the transformer in the van" for
"throw it in the bin" however I shall retrieve it on Monday morning for
closer examination.

Is it ok to just leave mains lighting cables lying around over
and under the loft insulation.?

Someone could venture into that loft and tread on a cable where it
crosses a joist and crush the cable insulation.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Someone could venture into that loft and tread on a cable where it
crosses a joist and crush the cable insulation.

They'd need to be wearing some pretty odd footwear. ;-)

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/05/18 11:22, Andrew wrote:
Is it ok to just leave mains lighting cables lying around over
and under the loft insulation.?

Someone could venture into that loft and tread on a cable where it
crosses a joist and crush the cable insulation.

It's common enough. But I don't like it for exactly the reason you say.

I actually ran wire basket tray around the perimeter of my roof so the
main runs out from there are either clipped to the side of the joists
(preferred) or draped over the ceiling (technically OK, again very
common, I prefer to avoid as it means being careful if drilling the
ceiling from below).

On Tue, 01 May 2018 11:22:58 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Someone could venture into that loft and tread on a cable where it
crosses a joist and crush the cable insulation.

Not bothered about cables, but I've seen many junction boxes in lofts
suffer the same fate.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2018 11:22:58 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Someone could venture into that loft and tread on a cable where it
crosses a joist and crush the cable insulation.

Not bothered about cables, but I've seen many junction boxes in lofts
suffer the same fate.

Most would fix those to the side of a nearby joist. For that very reason.

--
*I don't feel old. I don't feel anything until noon. Then it's time for my nap.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/04/2018 20:26, Rod Speed wrote:
They are pretty happy when you lot end up face down in the mud.

Will their farmers be happy when they have find someone else
to sell their apples, yoghurt and cheeses to ?.

will they be happy when the £15 billion of UK taxes that
annually articially subsidises French farmers *and* all those
rural bakeries vanishes ?.

You can get a DVD from Defra that list all the EU farmers and
how much they are 'paid' to be a farmer.

The one getting the most owns thousands of acres down near
the Camargue.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Will their farmers be happy when they have find someone else
to sell their apples, yoghurt and cheeses to ?.

will they be happy when the £15 billion of UK taxes that
annually articially subsidises French farmers *and* all those
rural bakeries vanishes ?.

They're likely to loose far more than that through crops being left in the
ground to rot. As the English just ain't strong eough for work in the
fields, we're told. Poor luvvies.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Will their farmers be happy when they have find someone else
to sell their apples, yoghurt and cheeses to ?.

will they be happy when the £15 billion of UK taxes that
annually articially subsidises French farmers *and* all those
rural bakeries vanishes ?.

They're likely to loose far more than that through crops being left in the
ground to rot. As the English just ain't strong eough for work in the
fields, we're told. Poor luvvies.


Was talking to a modern Farmer the other day, it now seems that bugger
all people work on Arable farms these days the farmer now has a bank of
PC screens he looks at and controls things on the self drive GPS
positioned tractor is around in other countries but not here - yet;!..
--
Tony Sayer

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 07:23:57 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message news
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 05:53:55 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:19:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 28/04/2018 21:22, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 06:19:18 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp"
wrote
in
message ...
On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:06:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 27/04/2018 21:43, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 12:31, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/04/2018 01:47, Fredxx wrote:
On 27/04/2018 00:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

8

Good grief. I'd expect a transformer like that to have a
thermal
fuse
inside the winding which would rupture long before the
transformer
overheated.

That was my thought, and I thought there was a requirement
for
one.
If
not there ought to be.


The EU requires one but don't worry when we leave we can go
back
to
not
having them.

Only an idiot Remoaner would contemplate such.

Lievers are the ones that say we are going to make cheaper
stuff,
how
are
we going to do that without ignoring safety?

By only doing the stuff that matters safety wise
and not all the other bull**** the EU also requires.

Perhaps you would care to be specific?

Most obviously with shutting down coal fired power
generation, the maximum power of vacuum cleaners etc.

I was at Longannet when they were putting the failed sulphur
capture
systems in. The coal fired stations need phasing out, nothing wrong
there.

Apart from global warming sulphur dioxide plus rain = acid.

I too wasn't impressed by the EU poking it's nose into vacuum's. I
bought a miele 2kW in Ireland just before the ban. I would swear by
it, it's a fantastic cleaner and probably at the limits of useful
power as it sticks to the floor at full whack.

Brexiteers fail to understand that advances require a push.

Not by unelected bureaucrats that don't have
a ****ing clue about anything at all, it doesn't.

Vacuums were stagnating and just produced more noise and heat than
they
do
now.

Bull****. My Ryobi 2KW wet and dry does a
hell of a lot better job than what it replaced.

The Sebo 1400W one I bought 6 years ago was just as powerful as the
2kW
ones.

Bull****.

I found exactly the same thing.

You proved that you didn't in the next para.

Actually the 1.4kW has a smaller suction opening on the floor
cleaning tool, so the thing has far mure suction than my 2kW

But is less powerful because it can't suck up so much
at once, most obviously in wet mode and when being
used with tools like when chasing walls etc etc etc.

The difference was better design.

The consumers should be free to buy what they decide
performs better. No unelected bureaucrat should be able
to tell them what they can't buy with vacuum cleaners.

They are free to buy what rubbish they want now.

No they arent if they want a 2KW+ vac and are in the EU.

I would hazard a guess that for those that want
power there are 3 phase units available.

Useless when they don't have 3 phase power. Makes
a lot more sense to have a 2KW+ vac instead.

One has only to look at the number of "cordless"
vacs on the market to see how dim consumers are.

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense at all to have
some unelected bureaucrat in Brussels telling them that
they can't buy one class of vacs if they are in the EU.

Idiots cannot simply be penalised for wastage by the
cost of power as there are a lot of people who struggle
to pay for even the basics such as heat & light.

Only a terminal ****wit would propose penalising those
who choose to buy what they buy consumer product wise.

If consumers don't behave responsibly and waste energy, then I
would happily vote for the EU if it stood for election in my town.

Yes, you have always been that terminal a ****wit. With complete freedom
of movement of even the dregs of the EU within the EU in spades.

Everything that I used to/ wished to buy that was banned under
EU regs seems to be available on Ebay anyway, apart from looking
up powerful vac's [when I bought my Karcher] and sodium chlorate,

Irrelevant to whether it makes any sense what so ever to allow some
unelected bureaucrat in Brussels to decide what you can and cannot buy.

I got to thinking, did some research and decided
that the "outlawed" items were a complete waste.

Yes, you are that terminal a ****wit, most obviously with
paint, paint stripper, wood preservatives, vacuum cleaners,
pesticides, insecticides and a host of other stuff the EU bans.

These things affect others incidentally,
not just the consumer buying them.

Just as true of how many kids you have. Even you arent
actually stupid enough to propose allowing some unelected
bureaucrat in Brussels telling you how many you should have.

British designed vacs were cr@p by comparison.

Consumers should be free to buy
what they like with vacuum cleaners.

At least they are now competing.

In fact you can still buy the best performing vacs as long as you
arent in the EU and Britain will be able to once it leaves too.

You can buy them in Britain now.

No you can not.

Don't mistake power input for performance.

You wouldn't know what real performance with a
vacuum cleaner was if it bit you on your lard arse.

Buying 500W/h of power from your local power company merely to
wake your neighbours up in the morning is not improved performance.

None of my neighbours gets woken by my much noisier power tools,
let alone by the vacuum cleaner you clowns can't have in the EU.

I bought a Karcher WD3 Wet and dry, lower power [1400W],
that is just as powerful. Had the WD3 been going when I
bought the Miele, it would have been the preferred purchase.

The last vac I bought was 1200w and it is by far the best from
a suction point of view, but it is a Bosh GAS25 so it should.

Its just proof that reducing the power requirements hasn't stopped
vacs
from performing but it has driven a lot of cr@p one off the market.

Irrelevant to whether some unelected bureaucrat should have
any say what so ever on what vacuum cleaner you can buy.

Someone needs to act with a common voice on these issues.

Bull****. And it makes no sense for it to be an unelected bureaucrat
anyway.

The effect on one, two or even a few thousand consumers isn't great,

Isnt worth worrying about in fact with something
used as intermittently as a vacuum cleaner.

but when an entire continent acts it reduces the need for fossil fuels

The ban on some vacs doesn't do that.

and reduces stress on families and colleagues.

Or that either.

If Britain didn't like the imposition, then we do have MEP's.

Who have no capacity to do anything about what some
unelected bureaucrat chooses to impose on the EU.

You really should try the Guardian or Independent.

Don't bother with any of those dinosaur **** rags anymore.

Strange how Ireland manages to have an input into the EU,

Not on what some stupid bureaucrat in
Brussels chooses to impose they don't.

I don't pay directly for water in Ireland,

More fool Ireland.

I have no choice in the UK.

Yes you do, not everyone pays directly for water in Britain.

No MEP can even write any legislation and see if they can
get enough other MEPs to agree with it to have it legislated,
the most they ever get to do is sign off on what some
unelected bureaucrat puts before the EP or reject it if enough
MEPs decide to do that. How stunningly democratic.

while Britain "tows the line".

Its "toes the line".

And Britain does, it has just decided to leave.

Only the idiots

That's how democracy works, you are stuck with what
the majority wants, even if the majority are idiots.

Could it be because the Tories are simply born liars
looking to blame anyone for their incompetence.

How odd that most of what most in Britain object to
about the EU was done under Labour.

They object to migrants and asylum seekers.

They object to a lot more than just those.

They are simply wrong. The potteries rejected the EU
bcause of Polish workers entering the pottery industry.

The pottery industry was finished 20 years back when Staffordshire
companies sold off the production machinery to Malasia and similar.

That wasn't what the referendum result was about.

The EU and immigration are classics.

Its no lie that the EU prevents Britain from being selective
about which EUians are allowed to move to Britain.

Why not, freedom of movement,

Which is what most don't want to have. They prefer that
Britain can be selective about what EUians are allowed
to move to Britain, just like it is with non EUians.

although I believe Blair was instrumental
in accepting East Europeans into the UK.

Irrelevant to what the majority want now.

We need those people anyway,

Britain does not need the worst of the EUians.

what's the problem?

The worst of the EUians.

It seems like Rudds lies have caught up with her. Not
a good idea to send the Windrush generation back,
they were generally accepted as being "good eggs".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting...European_Union

Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

You said they were undemocratic.

None of that has anything to do with what unelected
bureaucrats in Brussels are free to impose on the EU.

Andrew wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Andrew wrote

TBH the French are never happy are they?

They are pretty happy when you lot end up face down in the mud.

Will their farmers be happy when they have find someone else to sell their
apples, yoghurt and cheeses to ?.

Won't be hard with Britain being a small part of that market.

will they be happy when the £15 billion of UK taxes that annually
articially subsidises French farmers *and* all those rural bakeries
vanishes ?.

Irrelevant to whether they are happy about some things.

No one is ever happy about everything except the worst morons.

You can get a DVD from Defra that list all the EU farmers and how much
they are 'paid' to be a farmer.

Yes, the frogs have always had a hybrid welfare/small
farmer operation since the war. Its even arguably a better
approach than the handouts to non farmer unemployed.

The one getting the most owns thousands of acres down near the Camargue.

Corse no bludgers in Britain get anything from the EU
for horse paddocks for their obnoxious brats, eh ?