My office has just had a power failure (one phase down, so lost power
on one floor). We had low voltage (around 208v according to the UPS)
from 15:00 and finally lost power at 19:30.

This is the third time it's happened the past couple of months. The
office is only open between 8.00 AM and 5.00 PM, and UK power networks
don't seem to want to take action unless there is someone at the
premises.

The last couple of times I've been told that the problem was "a fuse
at the substation" when it was finally resolved (which sounds like a
simplified answer to me). It always seems to occur in the evening,
but no one really cares until the following morning because the street
is mainly offices. Then in the morning all hell breaks loose as
people arrive and find the power out.

I'm generally the person who's reported it the night before as I have
remote monitoring. But UK power networks want to wait until multiple
people have reported it before it appears on their radar.

Has anyone got any thoughts on how to get to the bottom of this
problem? It seems we just go round the same loop each time, and the
underlying problem isn't getting fixed.

It seems like the person at the UK power networks helpline is trying
to be helpful, but is just following a script and doesn't have the
authority to do anything other than put notes on the call log.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how to get the root cause of these
sorts of problems addressed?

On 04/11/2016 20:23, Caecilius wrote:

It seems like the person at the UK power networks helpline is trying
to be helpful, but is just following a script and doesn't have the
authority to do anything other than put notes on the call log.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how to get the root cause of these
sorts of problems addressed?

Can you correlate the failure time(s) and frequencies?

Major high power systems like sewage pumping stations coming online
around 6.30pm was the trigger in my neck of the woods. YMMV

Club together with other disgruntled businesses, talk to the local TV
channel and involve your MP - that tends to get their attention.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
My office has just had a power failure (one phase down, so lost power
on one floor). We had low voltage (around 208v according to the UPS)
from 15:00 and finally lost power at 19:30.

This is the third time it's happened the past couple of months. The
office is only open between 8.00 AM and 5.00 PM, and UK power networks
don't seem to want to take action unless there is someone at the
premises.

The last couple of times I've been told that the problem was "a fuse
at the substation" when it was finally resolved (which sounds like a
simplified answer to me). It always seems to occur in the evening,
but no one really cares until the following morning because the street
is mainly offices. Then in the morning all hell breaks loose as
people arrive and find the power out.

I'm generally the person who's reported it the night before as I have
remote monitoring. But UK power networks want to wait until multiple
people have reported it before it appears on their radar.

Has anyone got any thoughts on how to get to the bottom of this
problem? It seems we just go round the same loop each time, and the
underlying problem isn't getting fixed.

It seems like the person at the UK power networks helpline is trying
to be helpful, but is just following a script and doesn't have the
authority to do anything other than put notes on the call log.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how to get the root cause of these
sorts of problems addressed?

If they are any good you wont have to do anything, they will
realise that the fault keeps occurring in the substation and
fix what is causing it to take the fuse out there repeatedly.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 14:22:01 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"Caecilius" wrote in message
.. .
My office has just had a power failure (one phase down, so lost power
on one floor). We had low voltage (around 208v according to the UPS)
from 15:00 and finally lost power at 19:30.

This is the third time it's happened the past couple of months. The
office is only open between 8.00 AM and 5.00 PM, and UK power networks
don't seem to want to take action unless there is someone at the
premises.

The last couple of times I've been told that the problem was "a fuse
at the substation" when it was finally resolved (which sounds like a
simplified answer to me). It always seems to occur in the evening,
but no one really cares until the following morning because the street
is mainly offices. Then in the morning all hell breaks loose as
people arrive and find the power out.

I'm generally the person who's reported it the night before as I have
remote monitoring. But UK power networks want to wait until multiple
people have reported it before it appears on their radar.

Has anyone got any thoughts on how to get to the bottom of this
problem? It seems we just go round the same loop each time, and the
underlying problem isn't getting fixed.

It seems like the person at the UK power networks helpline is trying
to be helpful, but is just following a script and doesn't have the
authority to do anything other than put notes on the call log.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how to get the root cause of these
sorts of problems addressed?

If they are any good you wont have to do anything, they will
realise that the fault keeps occurring in the substation and
fix what is causing it to take the fuse out there repeatedly.

You'd hope so, wouldn't you. I would feel a bit better if I knew there
was something being done about the problem rather than just resetting
the breaker (or whatever it is) each time it trips.

BTW, the power cameback on last night: perhaps my reporting it did
some good after all, or maybe there's some remote monitoring at the
substation.

That is what SHOULD happen, of course, but in common no doubt with many
organisations, there is no way of flagging repeat things unless they are
flagged to a higher authority. This sort of thing afflicts mobile phone
companies councils the nhs etc, all the time and the tricky part is to get
it escalated to somebody who has the clout to shake the tree a bit harder.
Also, around here there was a similar problem near the centre of a busy
town, and the council kept refusing to allow the contractors to dig up the
road to get at the offending cable. One day there was an almighty bang and a
hole appeared in the footway and one carriageway, which then meant it has to
be fixed straight away. Sadly in the case in this thread, the fuse catches
it so this is unlikely to force the issue.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
My office has just had a power failure (one phase down, so lost power
on one floor). We had low voltage (around 208v according to the UPS)
from 15:00 and finally lost power at 19:30.

This is the third time it's happened the past couple of months. The
office is only open between 8.00 AM and 5.00 PM, and UK power networks
don't seem to want to take action unless there is someone at the
premises.

The last couple of times I've been told that the problem was "a fuse
at the substation" when it was finally resolved (which sounds like a
simplified answer to me). It always seems to occur in the evening,
but no one really cares until the following morning because the street
is mainly offices. Then in the morning all hell breaks loose as
people arrive and find the power out.

I'm generally the person who's reported it the night before as I have
remote monitoring. But UK power networks want to wait until multiple
people have reported it before it appears on their radar.

Has anyone got any thoughts on how to get to the bottom of this
problem? It seems we just go round the same loop each time, and the
underlying problem isn't getting fixed.

It seems like the person at the UK power networks helpline is trying
to be helpful, but is just following a script and doesn't have the
authority to do anything other than put notes on the call log.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how to get the root cause of these
sorts of problems addressed?

If they are any good you wont have to do anything, they will
realise that the fault keeps occurring in the substation and
fix what is causing it to take the fuse out there repeatedly.

That's exactly the problem I'm seeing. UK power networks have two
categories of problem: emergencies and faults, but they don't seem to
have a third category for ongoing issues.

My problem is not an emergency, and when an actual fault develops it's
fixed within a few hours. What I want is a lower-priority
investigation into what's causing the repeated faults, but there
doesn't seem to be a category for this sort of thing.

Of course it could be that the infrastructure has become overloaded,
and it will cost a large amount to upgrade it, so it's cheaper to keep
resetting the substation breaker every few weeks.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 10:29:00 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

That is what SHOULD happen, of course, but in common no doubt with many
organisations, there is no way of flagging repeat things unless they are
flagged to a higher authority. This sort of thing afflicts mobile phone
companies councils the nhs etc, all the time and the tricky part is to get
it escalated to somebody who has the clout to shake the tree a bit harder.
Also, around here there was a similar problem near the centre of a busy
town, and the council kept refusing to allow the contractors to dig up the
road to get at the offending cable. One day there was an almighty bang and a
hole appeared in the footway and one carriageway, which then meant it has to
be fixed straight away. Sadly in the case in this thread, the fuse catches
it so this is unlikely to force the issue.
Brian

Brian Gaff wrote

That is what SHOULD happen, of course, but in common no doubt with many
organisations, there is no way of flagging repeat things unless they are
flagged to a higher authority.

It doesn’t need to be flagged. Someone is replacing the
substation fuse and must be aware that they have to keep
doing what shouldn’t need to be done very often at all.

Yes, its certainly possible that that happens
because of a situation which is very expensive
to change to avoid that happening repeatedly.

This sort of thing afflicts mobile phone companies councils the nhs etc,
all the time

No it does not.

and the tricky part is to get it escalated to somebody who has the clout
to shake the tree a bit harder.

It isnt about shaking trees.

Also, around here there was a similar problem near the centre of a busy
town, and the council kept refusing to allow the contractors to dig up the
road to get at the offending cable. One day there was an almighty bang and
a hole appeared in the footway and one carriageway, which then meant it
has to be fixed straight away.

Unlikely that this is an example of that.

Sadly in the case in this thread, the fuse catches it so this is unlikely
to force the issue.

It can't be that common or there would be
a massive stink about it in the media etc.

Rod Speed wrote
"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
My office has just had a power failure (one phase down, so lost power
on one floor). We had low voltage (around 208v according to the UPS)
from 15:00 and finally lost power at 19:30.

This is the third time it's happened the past couple of months. The
office is only open between 8.00 AM and 5.00 PM, and UK power networks
don't seem to want to take action unless there is someone at the
premises.

The last couple of times I've been told that the problem was "a fuse
at the substation" when it was finally resolved (which sounds like a
simplified answer to me). It always seems to occur in the evening,
but no one really cares until the following morning because the street
is mainly offices. Then in the morning all hell breaks loose as
people arrive and find the power out.

I'm generally the person who's reported it the night before as I have
remote monitoring. But UK power networks want to wait until multiple
people have reported it before it appears on their radar.

Has anyone got any thoughts on how to get to the bottom of this
problem? It seems we just go round the same loop each time, and the
underlying problem isn't getting fixed.

It seems like the person at the UK power networks helpline is trying
to be helpful, but is just following a script and doesn't have the
authority to do anything other than put notes on the call log.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how to get the root cause of these
sorts of problems addressed?

If they are any good you wont have to do anything, they will
realise that the fault keeps occurring in the substation and
fix what is causing it to take the fuse out there repeatedly.

Caecilius wrote

That's exactly the problem I'm seeing. UK power networks
have two categories of problem: emergencies and faults, but
they don't seem to have a third category for ongoing issues.

They do actually, its just not visible to the end user.

My problem is not an emergency, and when an actual fault
develops it's fixed within a few hours. What I want is a lower-priority
investigation into what's causing the repeated faults, but there
doesn't seem to be a category for this sort of thing.

Of course that happens.

Of course it could be that the infrastructure has become overloaded,
and it will cost a large amount to upgrade it, so it's cheaper to keep
resetting the substation breaker every few weeks.

Not cheaper so much as much harder to get that funded.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016 10:29:00 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

That is what SHOULD happen, of course, but in common no doubt with many
organisations, there is no way of flagging repeat things unless they are
flagged to a higher authority. This sort of thing afflicts mobile phone
companies councils the nhs etc, all the time and the tricky part is to
get
it escalated to somebody who has the clout to shake the tree a bit harder.
Also, around here there was a similar problem near the centre of a busy
town, and the council kept refusing to allow the contractors to dig up the
road to get at the offending cable. One day there was an almighty bang and
a
hole appeared in the footway and one carriageway, which then meant it has
to
be fixed straight away. Sadly in the case in this thread, the fuse catches
it so this is unlikely to force the issue.
Brian

On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 05:29:02 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote

That is what SHOULD happen, of course, but in common no doubt with many
organisations, there is no way of flagging repeat things unless they are
flagged to a higher authority.

It doesn’t need to be flagged. Someone is replacing the
substation fuse and must be aware that they have to keep
doing what shouldn’t need to be done very often at all.

It looks like you might be correct. I had a phone call this morning
saying that the problem was the fuse at the substation, which was
replaced. I confirmed that the power was back on.

The person then said: we see this is the 4th time this has happened,
so we're sending someone to have a look. I'm not sure why whoever
replaced the fuse at the substation couldn't do this, but perhaps they
are different jobs. Anyway, it seems that UK power networks do keep
records and an investigation gets triggered after some number of
repeat faults.

In article , Caecilius
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2016 05:29:02 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote

That is what SHOULD happen, of course, but in common no doubt with
many organisations, there is no way of flagging repeat things unless
they are flagged to a higher authority.

It doesn’t need to be flagged. Someone is replacing the substation fuse
and must be aware that they have to keep doing what shouldn’t need to be
done very often at all.

It looks like you might be correct. I had a phone call this morning
saying that the problem was the fuse at the substation, which was
replaced. I confirmed that the power was back on.

The person then said: we see this is the 4th time this has happened, so
we're sending someone to have a look. I'm not sure why whoever replaced
the fuse at the substation couldn't do this, but perhaps they are
different jobs. Anyway, it seems that UK power networks do keep records
and an investigation gets triggered after some number of repeat faults.

many years ago, before privatisation, we had similar problems. It turned
out to be due to an underground cable fault - so, yes, a different job to
replacing a fuse. Interesting the fault had been created by the gas board
when they'd been installing their new plastic mains. Outer sheath of
electricty cable damaged allowing water ingress.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 04/11/16 20:23, Caecilius wrote:

snipped for brevity

Does anyone have any knowledge of how to get the root cause of these
sorts of problems addressed?


We had a problem with our domestic supply some time back- frequent
'cuts' for an hour or two. Like you the help line seemed good but they
didn't seem to be 'empowered' to get to the root of the problem.

We just asked to be referred to a supervisor and it was fixed in a day
or so.

Having said that, it seems that there had been a major failure and we
had been on a local generator and the cuts were due to it running out of
fuel (or a some other issue causing it to cut out*). Someone, often us I
suspect, reported the 'cut' and the fuel as topped up or the generator
otherwise restarted. Whether the permanent fix was any quicker due to
the intervention of the supervisor I can't be sure.


*I believe on one occasion the cables linking the generator to the main
cable were stolen.

We've had similar problems with the 'phone lines when a duct was flooded
and new cables had to be run. BT were a shambles until I contacted the
Chief Exec.