In message , David Hearn
writes

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike P
wrote:

Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?

That's called a signature. Your software is supposed to snip anything
after
the delimiter "dash dash space". Check the RFCs for info about sig files.


--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

Its still downloaded and wastes bandwidth (at least, that's what people who
complain about short adverts in newsgroups claim about the posts)...
Whilst a reader may strip it - it still displays it - else what's the point
of it being there if we can't see it?

It's allowable within the constitution of the newsgroup to add a "short"
advert to the sig. Personally I choose not to, but I don't see why other
people shouldn't if they wish
--
geoff

"Michael McNeil" wrote in message
news:b9bae1f1fa58871c4be77de5241316ac.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
"Grunff" wrote in message

I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
are in the wrong here.

The mere fact that they bothered to reply to you is indicative
of their overall superb customer service.

By the way, did you get their permission before publishing that
letter here?

First off:

The letter belongs to whomsoever it was sent to. The recipient
can do what he wishes with it.

In this country it is illegal to hold information about anyone on
computer without the person's knowledge. I am not sure it is a matter of
gaining consent though.

Ooops, try again...



No one is allowed to send spam in the name of good service surely? What
exactly are the laws of this land on that; anyone know?


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 14:55:29 +0000 (UTC), "Mike P"
wrote:

YOU buy from Screwfix and you don't want to know what new products or price
reductions they have to offer you?

Very strange!

Why not just add it to your Block List?

I'm with Screwfix on this one.

Mike P.


Hell I was glad to get it at least I could read it with interest
instead of spending all my free time dealing with all these naughty
Russian schoolgirls out there. ;-)

Mark S.

"Mike P" wrote in message ...
YOU buy from Screwfix and you don't want to know what new products or price
reductions they have to offer you?

Very strange!

Why not just add it to your Block List?

I'm with Screwfix on this one.

Mike P.

Sorry to be blunt, but I think the original poster is a fool to
himself and has shot himself in the foot....!

I agree with Screwfix.

morgan

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:38:44 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Is an email from screwfix, whom you've ordered from in the
past and are currently on their customer db, the same as spam
from some company you've never heard of

In my case, yes.

I've never given my email address to Screwfix, nor have I had email
from them. If they ever did send me some, it would have been from
purchasing a list, and that's a hanging offence on my mailer.

Axminster OTOH do have my email address (for I once ordered on-line,
before abandoning it to go back to the phones). They spam me
regularly, and I wish they didn't. But in the current vague
environment, I'm prepared to give an existing supplier some leeway for
cluelessness, rather than assuming evil spammerhood. I'd even prefer
it if they'd just get a damned clue and not send me emails that are
unreadable in plain text.

So broadly I'd have to agree with you. It's an annoyance (do they
really _want_ to annoy customers ?), but I'll put up with it. One step
further though, and they're off my Xmas card list - I reaqlly don;t
want companies to think that "spam is OK"


This morning I had 10 offers for a "cleaner colon". Now that's _real_
spam.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote:
In article , Mike P
wrote:

Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?

That's called a signature. Your software is supposed to snip anything after
the delimiter "dash dash space". Check the RFCs for info about sig files.

So if my "software is supposed to snip anything after the delimiter"
why do you put it there then?

--
Chris Green )

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote:


For those DIYers who buy from Screwfix:

You might like to be aware of their spam policy, which I have found out to
my cost. I am intending to issue legal action for recovery of my invoice
amount.

snip

I too have bought from screwfix, I too have always opted out of all
e-mail offers. I do not need to know about all their special offers,
or indeed any of their special offers. I like to buy things to my
timescales, not to theirs. I too have started to get spam from screw
fix. I too have re -opted out and am still getting the e-mails. To me
this is spam. Clearly they have good products and sell them cheaply.
Thus they have a good reputation and are liked on this group. It is
unfortunate that their unsolicited e-mail policy is so harsh.

To my mind they are spammers. They are sending out e-mails that people
do NOT want and have specifically requested to be removed from their
database. I do not accept that 3 weeks is an acceptable length of time
to get removed from a mailing list in this day of modern technology. I
feel that this delay is merely an excuse to allow them to keep on
mailing.

Now knowing their spamming policy I would look elsewhere first for
what I want before using them, and then using them only if they are
significantly cheaper.

That said the OP is going over the top regarding invoicing them and
taking them to court. I have better things to do with my life than
feeding trolls and spammers.
Richard

In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
You might like to be aware of their spam policy, which I have found out
to my cost. I am intending to issue legal action for recovery of my
invoice amount.


After the first spam incident, I wrote to them pointing out that I had
not authorised their sending of junkmail and that although no charge
would be made this time, any future use (by them) of my storage would be
charged out at £50 plus VAT per incident. Then they spammed me again
which is why I issued an invoice. Subsequently I have been chasing
payment.......

I'm slightly confused here. Screwfix only really do mail order, so without
an up to date catalogue, I'm not sure how you'd deal with them easily? And
surely the same applies to fliers or e-mails with special offers etc?

Personally, I've no objection to e-mail 'fliers' from companies I deal
with, and will indeed sometimes even take advantage of the offers.

Spam, to me, is completely unsolicited e-mail from someone I've had no
dealings with or likely to have.

--
*Pentium wise, pen and paper foolish *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Richard" wrote in message
...
snip

I too have bought from screwfix, I too have always opted out of all
e-mail offers. I do not need to know about all their special offers,
or indeed any of their special offers. I like to buy things to my
timescales, not to theirs. I too have started to get spam from screw
fix. I too have re -opted out and am still getting the e-mails. To me
this is spam. Clearly they have good products and sell them cheaply.
Thus they have a good reputation and are liked on this group. It is
unfortunate that their unsolicited e-mail policy is so harsh.

To my mind they are spammers. snip

You have a choice, save a few quid and get some spam, or pay a few quid
more for a product and get no spam. The choice is yours, as the saying
goes - 'There is no such thing as a free lunch'.

In message , Mike P
writes
YOU buy from Screwfix and you don't want to know what new products or
price
reductions they have to offer you?

Very strange!

Not at all, I nearly always tick the relevant boxes for not receiving
emails about promotions etc. I never really find them of benefit.

Well you've missed some bargains then,

Possibly, but IME unlikely for me.

why subscribe

I don't subscribe to anything with them.

or order from them

I order things that I want when I want them for the normal reasons.,
their prices are pretty good, delivery is usually good etc.

if
you miss the opportunity to save money!

For the same reasons as I don't want junk snail mail or junk phone
calls. While there is a small possibility I may derive some benefit, the
hassle factor isn't worth it for me.

YMMV (it would seem :-))
--
Chris French, Leeds

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:53:05 UTC, "Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)"
wrote:

In article , Mike P
wrote:

Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?

That's called a signature. Your software is supposed to snip anything after
the delimiter "dash dash space". Check the RFCs for info about sig files.

To be more accurate, it is supposed to snip the delimiter and anything
after it. But not for display...for followups.

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

In article , Owain
URL:mailto

Don't suppose Mr MacNamara put his email address on his letter did he?

You would be correct in that assumption.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article , Mike P
wrote:

AJL wrote:
There are reputable suppliers out there like Unifix who I always used to
use. They will match Screwfix for price but give a better service.

Ang about a mo, did you say "always used to use", "match the price", "better
service"

Certainly.

Well why do you use Screwfix in the first place ??

Because diversity of suppliers is important.

And I assume by the fuss that Unifix won't send you any special offers or
latest additions to their catalogue by email because you don't like these
kind of spam's?.

Quite. My email facility is for the use of my customers as is my phone. The
use of either by spammers is not appreciated.

You would just have to wait until they send you an updated hardcopy
catalogue through the post, say every 3 months?

Which now get returned with a note that we don't deal with spammers.


--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article , David Hearn
wrote:

Not to mention the fact that clicking on his 'Sky' button on this site seems
to put me into an infinite error loop.

Thanks for that. Must be something in the translation of URLs as I am hosted
now rather than redirected. It's time I sorted the site out, but this time
of the year it isn't really possible.


--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article , chris French
wrote:

Fair enough, though I presume at some point the 'send me emails about
promotions' option was selected?

No, that is the point. They ignored my original instruction when I provided
the address.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article , Dave Plowman
wrote:

I'm slightly confused here. Screwfix only really do mail order, so without
an up to date catalogue, I'm not sure how you'd deal with them easily? And
surely the same applies to fliers or e-mails with special offers etc?

I have a catalogue collection to select my purchases. I specifically
selected "No email contact" on the initial webpages. That setting was
ignored. The reson no contact is wanted is that the email facility is
exclusively for customer contact and I know that I have accidentally lost
enquiries in the murk of general spam.

Personally, I've no objection to e-mail 'fliers' from companies I deal
with, and will indeed sometimes even take advantage of the offers.

I have no objection if they have been requested. To ride roughshod over the
customer's instruction is not on.

Spam, to me, is completely unsolicited e-mail from someone I've had no
dealings with or likely to have.

Fair enough, but spam is unsolicited email, regardless of an existing
relationship if no prior consent has been given.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article , Bob Eager
wrote:

That's called a signature. Your software is supposed to snip anything after
the delimiter "dash dash space". Check the RFCs for info about sig files.

To be more accurate, it is supposed to snip the delimiter and anything
after it. But not for display...for followups.

Yes you are quite right. Thanks for the expansion.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

Well said Dave, I'll second that.

Mike P.

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
...
In article , David Hearn
wrote:

Not to mention the fact that clicking on his 'Sky' button on this site
seems
to put me into an infinite error loop.

Thanks for that. Must be something in the translation of URLs as I am
hosted
now rather than redirected. It's time I sorted the site out, but this time
of the year it isn't really possible.

Yeah, I'd imagine that there's lots of people wanting to get Sky etc
installed ready for Christmas!



D

In article , David Hearn
wrote:


Yeah, I'd imagine that there's lots of people wanting to get Sky etc
installed ready for Christmas!

At the moment we are having to turn business away sadly. I have another two
vans / engineers over last year and we still can't cope! Sky digital is only
a small part of the business though.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

In article , Huge wrote:
Sure. As long as they pay for transmitting it. I like getting
the catalogue in the post. Would I like getting it if it came
postage owing? Damn, no.

Who do you think ultimately pays for the postage? (and carting
all the non-recycled catalogues away)

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

In article , Huge wrote:
Look, I get between 700 and 1000 spams a day.

It's not very different here. But if you took out all the ones
that I could never be a customer of (US mortgages etc), all the
ones I am never likely to be a customer of (breast enlargement,
get rich quick etc) all the ones from unknown sources, and all
the ones from firms I have never been a customer of 99% of them
would disappear. The problem is not with bona fide companies
whose emails display genuine contact details.

The attitude here IMHO is the same as with speed cameras.
Catching genuinely unsafe drivers is hard work. So we leave them
to it and go for the easy pickings. You can bet your life that
the people most likely to fall foul of new anti-spam laws are not
those who generate most of the spam you and I get.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?

The other day I telephone ordered some items (cc purchase) from a firm and
they wanted my phone number. I gave them only my disposable mobile number.
They rang back a week later saying the order had arrived but on their
bank's instructions, they wouldn't despatch them without a landline number.
I said that company policy was absolutely not to give them a landline
number - even if (for the sake of argument) there was one.

In article ,
"TonyK" wrote:

How on earth do you cope if you get an unsolicited phone call!!

If you are on the national register, they are illegal under EU law. I
invariably sick the Information Commissioner (who is the enforcement
authority) on them.

But AJL is advertising just like Screwfix, but unlike Screwfix who he is
subscribed to by virtue of purchasing from them we on the newsgroup have to
put up with AJL's spams (advert for his web sites) every time he replies to
a post in this thread!.

Mike P.

"Andy Luckman wrote
Grunff wrote:

I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
are in the wrong here.

Well, at least it's (semi) targeted.

They have been warned that any communications will be used in whatever
manner I choose, including publishing in the newspapers if need be. So far
the local paper has taken an interest, although I intend to offer the story
to a national too. I need to find out how that may affect a court case
first though. It should make an interesting test case!

Christ on a bike, haven't you anything better to do.

I hope you have pursued the purveyors of bargain viagra and dodgy porn
with similar vigour.

Cheers,

Paul.

Mike P stated You would just have to wait until they send you an updated
hardcopy catalogue through the post, say every 3 months?

AJL replied Which now get returned with a note that we don't deal with
spammers.


SO now you also tell us that you send the hardcopy catalogues back to the
senders, this just gets better!.

Tell me, when you send out leaflets, paper adverts, radio adverts and if you
reach the dizzy heights of success TV adverts will you expect the public to
send them all back to you, because those people did not ask for them, hey
they might send YOU a bill for wasting THEIR time!.

Mike P

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote:

For those DIYers who buy from Screwfix:

[snip]

Was it really worth posting *18* posts on this subject compared to the 1
second it takes to hit delete on a piece of unwanted email? As Dave
said, at least it was from a company you use.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
...
In article , Owain
URL:mailto

Don't suppose Mr MacNamara put his email address on his letter did he?

You would be correct in that assumption.

Bet you a tenner it is . That's the way a lot of
major companies set up their addresses

Don't need his email address if you click 'reply', or you could look it up
on the proterties!.

Mike P.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:02:21 +0000, Tony Bryer wrote:

[ ... ]

The attitude here IMHO is the same as with speed cameras.

Don't forget gun control and abortion.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 09:36:04 +0000, Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:

In article , David Hearn
wrote:

Not to mention the fact that clicking on his 'Sky' button on this site
seems to put me into an infinite error loop.

Thanks for that. Must be something in the translation of URLs as I am
hosted now rather than redirected. It's time I sorted the site out, but
this time of the year it isn't really possible.

You probably don't have the time.

Don't need his email address if you click 'reply', or you could look it up
on the proterties!.

There's no reply button on a letter and left click doesn't seem to affect
snail mail either.

Ooops! my mistake, the thread goes back so far I forgot it was a letter and
not an email, I stand corrected.

Mike P

Don't need his email address if you click 'reply', or you could look it
up
on the proterties!.

There's no reply button on a letter and left click doesn't seem to affect
snail mail either.

In article , Mike P
writes
Well said Dave, I'll second that.

Second what? It's conventional to quote some of the post you're
replying to, so as to provide context.

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
...


big snip


I gather that you have mentioned the new legislation which comes into
force
on 11 December 2003 although I am puzzled how this will bolster your case
given that it is not retrospective. Even once the new legislation is in
force, we will continue to send email marketing to our customers without
their explicit prior consent ('opt-in'). The new regime allows us to send
marketing emails which relate to the same or similar products to those
purchased (i.e. in the case of Screfix Direct, our entire range) so long
as
we offer a no-cost opportunity to 'opt-out' from receiving future
e-mailings. In any event the new legislation relates only to personal
(not
business) email addresses, and your business' email address would
therefore not be afforded the new protection.


Screwfix have an interesting interpretation of the legislation here. It is
true that the legislation is mainly aimed at private email and that
companies won't be allowed to email individuals unless they have opted in.
Business email addresses can be contacted as long as the email is related to
the business that has already taken place between the two parties and a
specific opt-in is not required, but only if those businesses were given an
opt-out option when their details were first collected and chose not to opt
out.

Phil

What's up, can't you work out that I was referring to the sub-thread
directly above me?, just like this one!

Mike P.

"Suz" wrote
| "Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote
| Don't suppose Mr MacNamara put his email address on his letter did he?
| You would be correct in that assumption.
| Bet you a tenner it is . That's the way a lot of
| major companies set up their addresses

If it's not it'll probably be
or

Owain

Phil wrote:
"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
...


big snip


I gather that you have mentioned the new legislation which comes into
force
on 11 December 2003 although I am puzzled how this will bolster your case
given that it is not retrospective. Even once the new legislation is in
force, we will continue to send email marketing to our customers without
their explicit prior consent ('opt-in'). The new regime allows us to send
marketing emails which relate to the same or similar products to those
purchased (i.e. in the case of Screfix Direct, our entire range) so long
as
we offer a no-cost opportunity to 'opt-out' from receiving future
e-mailings. In any event the new legislation relates only to personal
(not
business) email addresses, and your business' email address would
therefore not be afforded the new protection.


Screwfix have an interesting interpretation of the legislation here. It is
true that the legislation is mainly aimed at private email and that
companies won't be allowed to email individuals unless they have opted in.
Business email addresses can be contacted as long as the email is related to
the business that has already taken place between the two parties and a
specific opt-in is not required, but only if those businesses were given an
opt-out option when their details were first collected and chose not to opt
out.

More to the point how do you differentiate 'business' and 'individual'
E-Mail addresses? It suggests a total misunderstanding of E-Mail and
the internet if TPTB think there is an actual difference.

--
Chris Green )

But Nigel Tomlinson nor yourself referred to the quote in the original
message of this sub thread or for that matter the subject of the whole post.

Don't worry about it, life is too short.

Mike P.