"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/16 18:54, wrote:


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harry writes
On Wednesday, 18 May 2016 16:54:46 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 18/05/16 16:49, Broadback wrote:
I am pro Brxit, but wither way I will be pleased when it is over
as if
has become very invasive, and boring.

I had an Iranian GF once. Her family came over and asked me 'how long
before the Mullahs get thrown out of office and we get our country
back'

That was in 1986. They are still there.

What a bore it is all this brexit, when its so much easier to simply
give in and let other people walk all over us.

There is nothing easier than giving away your freedom. And nothing
harder than getting it back.

+1
And so many especially the younger generations do take our freedoms
for granted.

Sure, but it isnt hard to get them back, just leave the EU.

We have been trying for 25 years...

And haven't succeeded because the majority dont want to leave the EU.

They won't when they get to vote this time either, you watch.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , wrote:

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
...
In article , Timothy Murphy
wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And since our law is subservient to the EU, they merely need to pass a
regulation saying 'once in, no leave' and that is binding on us too.

Utter nonsense.
That would require a Treaty change, which the UK would have to endorse.

Not according to what has been posted in recent days. The EU Parliament
would pass a "regulation", and that would be that.

No regulation can override the Treaty of Lisbon.

Doesn't have to. They could pass a regulation banning referendums on EU
membership.

Those dont apply to countries that have not joined.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/16 17:39, tim... wrote:


because it believes the Tories will undo *all* employee protections and
sending 9 YOs up chimneys will be allowed again.


It doesn't believe that.

ITYF that it does (ok I made up the bit about kids up chimneys)

even some centre leaning observers think that left unencumbered some Tories
would want to do this

That is just its way of expressing its deep hatred and jealousy of
success.

How is being concerned that workers get holidays and overtime pay being
"jealousy of success"

tim

wrote in message ...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/16 09:01, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 07:56:08 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

How hard would it be for say Iowa to leave the USA?

There is a historical precedent for states seceding from the union
.....

chuckle And look how that ended.

You think that is how Britain seceding from te EU will end? a war? You
might be right at that.

No chance, NATO wouldnt wear it.

With France and most of Scandinavia joining Britain ainst Germany and the
test of Club Med.

Fantasy. NATO would ensure that didnt happen.

NATO would ensure that the EU

I think you misunderstand the concerned raised

no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

The suggestion is that without the controlling hand of the UK being part of
the club, individual countries still within the EU will want to war with
each other (as they used to do in times past)

Yes it's nonsense, but that is the claim

tim

On 19/05/16 19:35, wrote:
The most the EU could do is cut off its nose to spite
its face and pull the plug on Airbus

Which is actually nothing to do with the EU at all.

Your ignorance is astounding.

Lime most 'remainders'


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

On 20/05/16 09:37, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Timothy Murphy
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

No, they are simply small.

But have as big a vote in the UN as say the United States or China does...


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

Timothy Murphy wrote
Tim Streater wrote

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

More that they come from somewhere else history wise.

Switzerland particularly was much more restrictive than
most about who they allowed to move to Switzerland,
and so that change to allowing complete freedom of
movement by anyone in europe who wanted to move
there was quite a significant change in approach.

Norway was always rather different the other way with
large numbers of Norwegians ending up all over the
world so it is less surprising that they were prepared
to agree to allowing anyone in europe who wanted
to move there to do that.

It is always best to assume that people
will do what they say they will do.

Correct. And with BREXIT I at least am saying that we would *not*
enter into a mutual "free access" model of the type you describe.

Since you are unlikely to be Prime Minister you will
be unable to "do what you say" in this instance.

He's talking about what he believes the country would do in that regard.

I notice that your leader, Boris Johnson,

He doesn't lead anyone.

who probably would be PM, does not make these
rash promises to turn everything upside down.

Which is likely at least part of the reason that he
has done a hell of a lot better than Streater has.

I am sure he would make a deal with the EU that
would more or less leave everything as it is.

I don't believe Boris is that predictable.

It's far from clear how influential the BREXITs are in
the Tory party, but they must be quite influential to
have got Cameron to agree to a referendum.

It's quite possible that Boris has decided that they
are his best bet to become the next PM and so what
he does negotiation wise is more likely to be what
he considers they want than what is best for Britain.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/16 19:35, wrote:
The most the EU could do is cut off its nose to spite
its face and pull the plug on Airbus

Which is actually nothing to do with the EU at all.

Of course it has if the EU attempts to punish Britain if it chooses
to leave the EU to discourage others from leaving the EU.

Your ignorance is astounding.

Your comprehension isnt, we see it so
often when you are completely blotto.

Lime most 'remainders'

I'm not a remainder. I actually think it doesnt really matter
whether Britain does leave or stay, it will work out fine either
way with different advantage and disadvantages of each approach.

But then I'm not a rabid one eyed bitter and twisted bigot.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 09:37, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Timothy Murphy
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

No, they are simply small.

But have as big a vote in the UN as say the United States or China does...

That's a lie with the US which is a permanent member of
the security council and irrelevant to why they chose to
agree to what they did agree to to be part of the EEA etc.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

You've not been reading Turnip's posts?

--
*The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/05/16 11:11, wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/16 19:35, wrote:
The most the EU could do is cut off its nose to spite
its face and pull the plug on Airbus

Which is actually nothing to do with the EU at all.

Of course it has if the EU attempts to punish Britain if it chooses
to leave the EU to discourage others from leaving the EU.

Your ignorance is astounding.

Your comprehension isnt, we see it so
often when you are completely blotto.

Lime most 'remainders'

I'm not a remainder. I actually think it doesnt really matter
whether Britain does leave or stay, it will work out fine either
way with different advantage and disadvantages of each approach.

But then I'm not a rabid one eyed bitter and twisted bigot.
Oh, but you are.


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On 20/05/16 11:14, wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 09:37, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Timothy Murphy
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

No, they are simply small.

But have as big a vote in the UN as say the United States or China
does...

That's a lie with the US which is a permanent member of
the security council and irrelevant to why they chose to
agree to what they did agree to to be part of the EEA etc.

Straw man, The security council is not the UN, its a particular
committee within it.

The reality as uyou well know is that te UN is run by and for the
benefit of banana republics and small nations like Norway, not for the
larger trading nations like India China, the USA etc who largely ignore
it when it suits them.

--
€œIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€�

Thomas Sowell

On 20/05/16 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

You've not been reading Turnip's posts?

Well you may laugh, but I will continue to predict that the EU will end
in tears. Schengen didn't last five minutes once it was put to the
test.

The EU IS ending in tears as we speak.

It all feels like 1938...Cameron waving a bit of paper 'reform in our time'

Meanwhile across the continent a mass invasion is taking place and
everyone knows the financial system is bankrupt and should have ceased
trading ten years ago but no one has the courage to work out what would
happen if it did.

It will almost certainly end in force of arms.

At one level or another.


--
€œIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€�

Thomas Sowell

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

You've not been reading Turnip's posts?

Well you may laugh,

Not a laugh at all. He suggested more than once 'they would send in the
tanks' or whatever.


but I will continue to predict that the EU will end
in tears.

People have been predicting the EU would end in tears since it first
began. And of course many are working to try and make that come true.

--
*How about "never"? Is "never" good for you?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 19 May 2016 17:26:08 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
What a bore it is all this brexit, when its so much easier to simply
give in and let other people walk all over us.

Ah yes. The EU against the UK again.

Do you think the EU is one harmonious block of like minded people. ?
Then think again.

No I don't. Hence my comment. But lots do seem to think they are united to
do down the UK.

Then how come such a thing can't be disporoved with evidence.


Just like Carswell on Newsnight earlier this week.

I did see Newsnight but don't remmeber what he said.


'The UK has only 10% of the vote in the EU which is why we never get our
own way.'

How often do we not get our own way?

Bluster with some number or other.

In fact, 85% of all results are as the UK voted.

So 15% as we didn't vote.
But no indication on what these things were which to me implies a cover up
or manipulation in the stats.
I lnow because I;'ve done that myself for work because I was told to.
No I cant; see that this doesn;t work higher up the chain, in fact I know it does and it's covered up with a higher degree.
which is why a certain footballer was charge with raping a 15 year old while JS got away with what he did for so long.

Which is also how some priests get away with peadophila while a lesser person would be 'exposed'.

On Friday, 20 May 2016 07:14:59 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 May 2016 07:38:57 UTC+1, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1485970 20160518 230036 Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/16 16:49, Broadback wrote:
I am pro Brxit, but wither way I will be pleased when it is over as
if
has become very invasive, and boring.

I had an Iranian GF once. Her family came over and asked me 'how long
before the Mullahs get thrown out of office and we get our country
back'

That was in 1986. They are still there.

What a bore it is all this brexit, when its so much easier to simply
give in and let other people walk all over us.

Ah yes. The EU against the UK again. But obviously in perfect harmony
within, as regards doing down the UK. Wonder why that should be? Every
country in the EU has more in common with any other EU country than the
UK?

In many respects they probably do, yes.

If you were talking individuals instead of countries wouldn't you say
that the UK
was an anti-social loner with no friends?

I'd say we keep our friends at a sensible distance as for our enemies
well...
we'll have to work that one out when it comes about.

Nope, you lot have been doing that for centurys now, millennia in fact.

We did for centuries and it changed during those centuries. Our relation ship with the land mass we now call Europe has changed quite a bit especailly since the end of teh ice age.
Less than one century ago Germany and Italy were our enemies what are they now ?

On Friday, 20 May 2016 09:10:34 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/16 17:39, tim... wrote:


because it believes the Tories will undo *all* employee protections and
sending 9 YOs up chimneys will be allowed again.


It doesn't believe that.

ITYF that it does (ok I made up the bit about kids up chimneys)

It was the UK not teh EU or any country that is in teh EU that stopped kids from being sent up chimneys, but I'm betting the inners are claiming we'll have kids up chiminey of we leave the EU. :-)

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
'The UK has only 10% of the vote in the EU which is why we never get our
own way.'

How often do we not get our own way?

Bluster with some number or other.

In fact, 85% of all results are as the UK voted.

So 15% as we didn't vote.

No. Roughly 15% of votes had a result we didn't want. Which meant 85% did
go as we wanted.

Now BREXITs try and tell us most of the EU legislation is not in the
interests of the UK. Yet we apparently voted in favour of 85% of it.

So as well as just plain lying about so much, they can't count either.

--
*CAN AN ATHEIST GET INSURANCE AGAINST ACTS OF GOD?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/05/16 15:02, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

You've not been reading Turnip's posts?

Well you may laugh,

Not a laugh at all. He suggested more than once 'they would send in the
tanks' or whatever.

but I will continue to predict that the EU will end
in tears.

People have been predicting the EU would end in tears since it first
began. And of course many are working to try and make that come true.

No one has to *work* to make that happen. The EU is doing a fine job
all on its own.

Ah, but in the mind of the Lefty****, only enemy action makes grandiose
social projects fail. That they were ill conceived and incompetently
implemented and their actual aims are in any case actually counter
productive to the purpose they are supposed to serve, is concealed
behind a massive wall of cognitive dissonance - or 'doublethink' .

Marxist dogma says that the EU should be the greatest things since the
Jarrow March. If it isn't it has to be those damned capitalist
sabotaging it. Never that Marxist Dogma is about as relevant to the 21st
century as windmills, about as useful as a chocolate teapot and about as
fragrant as a used prop forwards jock strap.


--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Well Greece certainly is, with the news reporting that they'll be
unable to make their next debt repayment, due in July or so. The
politicos are keeping quiet about that in case it helps prove what all
the brexiteers have been saying - that the EU is a ramshackle decaying
edifice that just needs one boot to bring the whole rotten structure
crashing to the ground.

Have you thought what would happen after Greece was allowed to collapse as
presumably you'd like to see?

--
*I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"So I suppose if 279 rich, pampered celebrities, lounging on their Eames
chairs inside the celebrity bubble where you dont speak to anyone but
other celebrities, (all of them left wing, obvs, because why would you
talk to anyone else? €“ all theyd do is ask you to pose for a selfie
with them), tell us with the benefit of their wisdom and insight that we
should stay in the EU, then I guess that thats my mind finally made up."

I love James Delingpole. For 10 minutes of pure sracasm and brilliant
polemic trot over to here..


http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...eu-referendum/

(Theres also a link to 'brexit: the movie')



--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On Friday, 20 May 2016 18:46:27 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Well Greece certainly is, with the news reporting that they'll be
unable to make their next debt repayment, due in July or so. The
politicos are keeping quiet about that in case it helps prove what all
the brexiteers have been saying - that the EU is a ramshackle decaying
edifice that just needs one boot to bring the whole rotten structure
crashing to the ground.

Have you thought what would happen after Greece was allowed to collapse as
presumably you'd like to see?

It's inevitable.
They will withdraw from the EUSSR and rat out on all their debts.
Won't be long.
Italy will be mext.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...European_banks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_government_debt

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

You've not been reading Turnip's posts?

Well you may laugh,

We sneer in fact.

but I will continue to predict that the EU will end in tears.

But not with tanks being sent in to Britain as he claims.

Schengen didn't last five minutes once it was put to the test.

It's still working fine in most of the Schengen region.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 11:14, wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 09:37, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Timothy Murphy
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

No, they are simply small.

But have as big a vote in the UN as say the United States or China
does...

That's a lie with the US which is a permanent member of
the security council and irrelevant to why they chose to
agree to what they did agree to to be part of the EEA etc.

Straw man, The security council is not the UN, its a particular committee
within it.

It is in fact where the most important decisions in the UN
are made, so your original is just another bare faced lie.

The reality as uyou well know is that te UN is run by and for the benefit
of banana republics and small nations like Norway,

Like hell it is with the most important stuff it does.

not for the larger trading nations like India China, the USA etc who
largely ignore it when it suits them.

Irrelevant to your bare faced lie.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

You've not been reading Turnip's posts?

Well you may laugh, but I will continue to predict that the EU will end
in tears. Schengen didn't last five minutes once it was put to the test.

The EU IS ending in tears as we speak.

Fantasy, Britain won't be leaving, you watch.

And neither will any other country that matters either.

It all feels like 1938...Cameron waving a bit of paper 'reform in our
time'

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Meanwhile across the continent a mass invasion is taking place

The EU will survive that, you watch.

Europe has survived mass migration before, and will do so again.

and everyone knows the financial system is bankrupt and should have ceased
trading ten years ago but no one has the courage to work out what would
happen if it did.

Can't be any worse than what WW2 produced.

It will almost certainly end in force of arms.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

It has in fact ensured that there wont be another
full world war starting in Europe, again.

At one level or another.

Slither, slither, slither.

On 21/05/16 01:57, wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 11:14, wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 09:37, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Timothy Murphy
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

No, they are simply small.

But have as big a vote in the UN as say the United States or China
does...

That's a lie with the US which is a permanent member of
the security council and irrelevant to why they chose to
agree to what they did agree to to be part of the EEA etc.

Straw man, The security council is not the UN, its a particular
committee within it.

It is in fact where the most important decisions in the UN
are made,

No, it isn't. Another bare faced lie.

so your original is just another bare faced lie.

The reality as uyou well know is that te UN is run by and for the
benefit of banana republics and small nations like Norway,

Like hell it is with the most important stuff it does.
By your narrow and unique definition of 'important' selected to make
your case appear valid...


not for the larger trading nations like India China, the USA etc who
largely ignore it when it suits them.

Irrelevant to your bare faced lie.

So you say, so you say, but bring no evidence to bear on the matter...


--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On 21/05/16 02:02, wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

You've not been reading Turnip's posts?

Well you may laugh, but I will continue to predict that the EU will end
in tears. Schengen didn't last five minutes once it was put to the test.

The EU IS ending in tears as we speak.

Fantasy, Britain won't be leaving, you watch.

Straw man. Whether Britain leaves or not has nothing to do with whether
Britain leaves. Or is Briota9n so important to the EU that it (the EU)
will collapse if it does?



And neither will any other country that matters either.

I agree France Portugal Sweden and Hungary don't really matter..


It all feels like 1938...Cameron waving a bit of paper 'reform in our
time'

Even sillier than you usually manage.

I see the incisive logic that you applly to the evidence you cite to
support your case.


Meanwhile across the continent a mass invasion is taking place

The EU will survive that, you watch.

Do you mind if I dont. Stupidity and bloodshed are rather an unsettling mix?


Europe has survived mass migration before, and will do so again.

Sure sure. The last EU, was called the Holy Roman Empoire. Its survived
mass immiggratiion so well that is still; runs Europe.

I see you have deftly inserted 'Europe' when we were talking about the
'EU' as if they were the same thing.

What a slimy and desperate piece you are.



and everyone knows the financial system is bankrupt and should have
ceased trading ten years ago but no one has the courage to work out
what would happen if it did.

Can't be any worse than what WW2 produced.

You have no idea do you?


It will almost certainly end in force of arms.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Yawn. You know that is rather a poor riposte.

Even for a pathetic remainer.


It has in fact ensured that there wont be another
full world war starting in Europe, again.

ROFLMAO.
The world war has already started.


Slither, slither, slither.


Exactly.......




--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 20 May 2016 07:14:59 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 19 May 2016 07:38:57 UTC+1, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1485970 20160518 230036 Tim Streater
wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/05/16 16:49, Broadback wrote:
I am pro Brxit, but wither way I will be pleased when it is over
as
if
has become very invasive, and boring.

I had an Iranian GF once. Her family came over and asked me 'how
long
before the Mullahs get thrown out of office and we get our country
back'

That was in 1986. They are still there.

What a bore it is all this brexit, when its so much easier to
simply
give in and let other people walk all over us.

Ah yes. The EU against the UK again. But obviously in perfect
harmony
within, as regards doing down the UK. Wonder why that should be?
Every
country in the EU has more in common with any other EU country than
the
UK?

In many respects they probably do, yes.

If you were talking individuals instead of countries wouldn't you say
that the UK
was an anti-social loner with no friends?

I'd say we keep our friends at a sensible distance as for our enemies
well...
we'll have to work that one out when it comes about.

Nope, you lot have been doing that for centurys now, millennia in fact.

We did for centuries and it changed during those centuries. Our relation
ship with the land mass we now call Europe has changed quite a bit
especailly since the end of teh ice age.

Yeah, you lot got ****ed over by all of the Angles,
Saxons, Jutes, Romans, Vikings, Normans etc etc etc.

Less than one century ago Germany and Italy
were our enemies what are they now ?

So, like I said, you lot will not have to work out what
to do about your enemys when it comes about, you've
been doing that for millennia now.

On Saturday, 21 May 2016 01:57:50 UTC+1, wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 11:14, wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 09:37, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Timothy Murphy
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

No, they are simply small.

But have as big a vote in the UN as say the United States or China
does...

That's a lie with the US which is a permanent member of
the security council and irrelevant to why they chose to
agree to what they did agree to to be part of the EEA etc.

Straw man, The security council is not the UN, its a particular committee
within it.

It is in fact where the most important decisions in the UN
are made, so your original is just another bare faced lie.

The reality as uyou well know is that te UN is run by and for the benefit
of banana republics and small nations like Norway,

Like hell it is with the most important stuff it does.

not for the larger trading nations like India China, the USA etc who
largely ignore it when it suits them.

Irrelevant to your bare faced lie.

Hello Wodders you lying ****.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Well Greece certainly is, with the news reporting that they'll be
unable to make their next debt repayment, due in July or so. The
politicos are keeping quiet about that in case it helps prove what all
the brexiteers have been saying - that the EU is a ramshackle decaying
edifice that just needs one boot to bring the whole rotten structure
crashing to the ground.

Have you thought what would happen after Greece was allowed to collapse as
presumably you'd like to see?

Nothing much. They had a full civil war and everyone
else just yawned and carried on regardless.

Come to think of it, that's what happened when
you lot had yours too.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In t,
Tim wrote:

Well Greece certainly is, with the news reporting that they'll be
unable to make their next debt repayment, due in July or so. The
politicos are keeping quiet about that in case it helps prove what all
the brexiteers have been saying - that the EU is a ramshackle decaying
edifice that just needs one boot to bring the whole rotten structure
crashing to the ground.

Have you thought what would happen after Greece was allowed to collapse as
presumably you'd like to see?



It may not be just Greece and the Euro, the whole western banking
system is on the verge of collapse. The use of voodoo economics and
destruction of the developed nations productive economy for the past 8
years is creating serious instability. The dollar, pound and yen are to
a first approximation worthless, hence the rush into hard assets such as
property/industrial/mining/energy shares by the rich.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Now BREXITs try and tell us most of the EU legislation is not in the
interests of the UK. Yet we apparently voted in favour of 85% of it.



So, some turkeys vote for Xmas? Presumably those who wish to be
ruled by Brussels!

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Have you thought what would happen after Greece was allowed to collapse as
presumably you'd like to see?



It may not be just Greece and the Euro, the whole western banking
system is on the verge of collapse. The use of voodoo economics and
destruction of the developed nations productive economy for the past 8
years is creating serious instability. The dollar, pound and yen are to
a first approximation worthless, hence the rush into hard assets such as
property/industrial/mining/energy shares by the rich.

Ah. Right. So won't make any difference if we stay or leave then. Because
we're all doomed. Doomed.

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 21/05/16 02:02, wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:
no-one is suggesting that the EU will go to war with the UK.

You've not been reading Turnip's posts?

Well you may laugh, but I will continue to predict that the EU will end
in tears. Schengen didn't last five minutes once it was put to the
test.

The EU IS ending in tears as we speak.

Fantasy, Britain won't be leaving, you watch.

Straw man. Whether Britain leaves or not has nothing to do with whether
Britain leaves.

Clearly completely blotto, as always.

Or is Briota9n so important to the EU that it (the EU) will collapse if it
does?

The EU isnt going to end whatever Britain does.

And neither will any other country that matters either.

I agree France Portugal Sweden and Hungary don't really matter..

France won't be leaving.

It all feels like 1938...Cameron waving a bit of paper 'reform in our
time'

Even sillier than you usually manage.

I see the incisive logic that you applly to the evidence you cite to
support your case.

We all swooned at the evidence you presented on the EU ending
in tears, and just how the EU would send in the tanks to Britain.

Meanwhile across the continent a mass invasion is taking place

The EU will survive that, you watch.

Do you mind if I dont. Stupidity and bloodshed are rather an unsettling
mix?

There won't be anything even remotely like the
bloodshed that was seen in WW2, you watch.

Europe has survived mass migration before, and will do so again.

Sure sure. The last EU, was called the Holy Roman Empoire. Its survived
mass immiggratiion so well that is still; runs Europe.

Never said that a particular empire survived.

Even you have likely noticed that the British Empire didnt either.

I see you have deftly inserted 'Europe' when we were talking about the
'EU' as if they were the same thing.

They are as far as surviving mass migration is concerned.

Even Britain managed to survived quite a few mass migrations,
the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, Romans, Normans, Huguenots,
Jews and countless other less well known groups fine.

What a slimy and desperate piece you are.

The fact that you have nothing left except insults noted.

and everyone knows the financial system is bankrupt and should have
ceased trading ten years ago but no one has the courage to work out
what would happen if it did.

Can't be any worse than what WW2 produced.

You have no idea do you?

Fraid so.

It will almost certainly end in force of arms.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Yawn. You know that is rather a poor riposte.

And your resort to insults isn't ?

Even for a pathetic remainer.

I'm not a remainer. I couldnt care less what Britain
does, things will be fine regardless of whether it leaves
the EU or remains, with the detail being rather different
in each case, particularly with who gets to decide policy.

I in fact think that who gets to decide policy is rather
more important than a couple of percent of the GDP,
essentially because Britain has one of the lowest
unemployment rates of the majors in europe and
there is no reason why that will not continue regardless
of whether it is in the EU or not.

With Britain not in the EU it would be free
to tell the dregs of the EU that they are not
welcome in Britain unless they have a job to
go to and going that route would have no
real effect on where Brits would be able to go in
the EU after Britain left, because only a small minority
of Brits want to go to Romania or Poland etc forever.

On balance I am more of a leaver than
a remainder for those reasons but as I
said, I really dont care what the result is.

It has in fact ensured that there wont be another
full world war starting in Europe, again.

ROFLMAO.
The world war has already started.

Bugger, just heard the tanks rumbling...

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In t,
Tim wrote:

Well Greece certainly is, with the news reporting that they'll be
unable to make their next debt repayment, due in July or so. The
politicos are keeping quiet about that in case it helps prove what all
the brexiteers have been saying - that the EU is a ramshackle decaying
edifice that just needs one boot to bring the whole rotten structure
crashing to the ground.

Have you thought what would happen after Greece was allowed to collapse
as
presumably you'd like to see?

It may not be just Greece and the Euro,

Yes.

the whole western banking system is on the verge of collapse.

Like hell it is.

The use of voodoo economics and destruction of the developed nations
productive economy for the past 8 years

That is a fantasy. The US economy and Britain's is doing as well as it ever
did.

Neither Canada nor Australia even had a full recession as a result of the
2008 implosion.

is creating serious instability.

Yes but we have seen much worse in the past and survived that fine.

The dollar, pound and yen are to a first approximation worthless,

Even sillier than you usually manage.

hence the rush into hard assets such as property
/industrial/mining/energy shares by the rich.

Those arent anything even remotely like hard assets.

And it isnt the rich that own most of those, it is pension and mutual funds.

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Now BREXITs try and tell us most of the EU legislation is not in the
interests of the UK. Yet we apparently voted in favour of 85% of it.



So, some turkeys vote for Xmas?

No, Britain agreed with the bulk of those policies.

Presumably those who wish to be ruled by Brussels!

No, Britain agreed with the bulk of those policies.

In article , tim...
writes

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 19/05/16 17:39, tim... wrote:


because it believes the Tories will undo *all* employee protections and
sending 9 YOs up chimneys will be allowed again.


It doesn't believe that.

ITYF that it does (ok I made up the bit about kids up chimneys)

even some centre leaning observers think that left unencumbered some
Tories would want to do this

"Some" might but no chance of them getting a majority, just as some in
Labour would love to nationalise everything in sight.
That is just its way of expressing its deep hatred and jealousy of
success.

How is being concerned that workers get holidays and overtime pay being
"jealousy of success"

tim


Worker got holiday pay and overtime pay long before we joined the EU.
--
bert

In article , writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Capitol writes
harry wrote:
On Thursday, 19 May 2016 00:45:50 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In ,
wrote:

On 2016-05-18 16:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There is nothing easier than giving away your freedom. And nothing
harder than getting it back.


This baffles me. I try to stay away from all the political discussions
in this group, but if I'm correct you equate pro-brexit with
pro-freedom
and I can't understand the logic of this.


One of the very facts about the UK in the EU is that we have the same
freedom of movement as everyone else. If we leave the EU, we lose
this.


This means if the leave the EU, we lose this freedom.


Doesn't it?

I'd guess what Turnip means is the freedom to be forced to work
excessive
hours and no paid holidays, etc. The freedom to go back to the
days where
a serf knows his place and is happy with any crumbs from his master's
table. That sort of thing.
He sure as eggs are eggs doesn't want the same freedoms for everyone.


You are full of crap as always.
Workers rights were begun here in the UK with the factory act in
1802 and in 1833 children's act.
Long before the rest of the world.

And do you suppose there were no workers rights pre 1970's in the UK?
Do you suppose there are no workers rights in Canada, USA,
Australia etc?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_law#United_Kingdom

The French government is trying to ditch a lot of employment law
right now because things are going wrong in the socialist paradise.

You are possibly the dopiest person corresponding here.



And I see that the train unions are campagning for Brexit!

The Labour party is against TTIP because it will result in the
privatisation of the NHS

Like hell it will.

but pro EU for some reason.

Because they have decided that Britain is better in the EU
than out of it, just like the majority who will vote have too.

Surely it would be better to leave the EU

Economically it wouldn't be.

and then we would be at the back of the queue for these dictatorial
capitalist US trade Deals.

Nothing dictatorial about them. The EU isn't going
to agree to anything that sees all the european
equivalents of the NHS privatised, you watch.
There aren't any European equivalents of the NHS and Health Services are
not excluded form TTIP.
--
bert

In article , Timothy Murphy
writes
Tim Streater wrote:

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

It is always best to assume that people will do what they say they will
do.

Correct. And with BREXIT I at least am saying that we would *not* enter
into a mutual "free access" model of the type you describe.

Since you are unlikely to be Prime Minister you will be unable
to "do what you say" in this instance.

I notice that your leader, Boris Johnson, who probably would be PM,
does not make these rash promises to turn everything upside down.
I am sure he would make a deal with the EU that would more or less
leave everything as it is.


On what basis are you "sure"?
I am equally sure that all Camerons so called deals will be discarded
once the vote is out of the way if it goes in favour of staying in.
--
bert

In article , writes


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/05/16 09:37, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Timothy Murphy
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

In fact I am quite sure that if the UK did leave the EU
the UK government would enter into an agreement
identical to that of Norway and Switzerland.
It would be insanity not to.

It would be insanity to do so.

Are the Norwegians and Swiss insane?

No, they are simply small.

But have as big a vote in the UN as say the United States or China does...

That's a lie with the US which is a permanent member of
the security council and irrelevant to why they chose to
agree to what they did agree to to be part of the EEA etc.
The EU will ultimately take over the UK Seat on the Security Council if
we stay in.
--
bert