In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 25/05/16 11:10, Capitol wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Jim wrote:
Much more likely if Britain chooses to leave the EU
and the EU is actually stupid enough to attempt to
punish Britain to discourage others from leaving.
Punish? The BREXIT lot major on their guess that the EU will give the UK
more favourable terms than any other EU trading partners at present,
if we
leave. On the basis that Germany sells more cars or whatever to us
than we
do to them. But this simply isn't the case with the majority of countries
within the EU. And Germany isn't the EU.

If the overall balance of trade and services between the EU and UK was in
the EU's favour, it might make sense to leave.

Something like 80% of the UKs income comes from services. Which isn't the
case with Norway, etc.


Your logic defeats me!

What logic?



Ill-logic.
--
bert

On 25/05/16 20:35, bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Brexit is a leap into the unknown -

No, joining the EEC was a leap in to the unkoown.

Yes it was. Many years ago. So not unknown now.

Leaving the EU *is* a leap into the unknown.

As usual you have totally missed the point. You cannot claim it is a
leap in to the unknown and at the same time make predictions about what
dire things will happen.

You obviously haven't studied the whole foundation of Leftythinking.

Doublethink.

"The rules of the Inner Party are held together by adherence to a common
doctrine. In a Party member not even the smallest deviation of opinion
on the most unimportant subject can be tolerated. But it is also
necessary to remember that events happened in the desired manner. And if
it is necessary to rearrange one's memories or to tamper with written
records, then it is necessary to forget that one has done so. The trick
of doing this can be learned like any other mental technique. It is
learned by the majority of Party members, and certainly by all who are
intelligent as well as orthodox. In Oldspeak it is called, quite
frankly, "reality control." In Newspeak, it is called doublethink,
though doublethink comprises much else as well.

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in
one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. The Party
intellectual knows in which direction his memories must be altered; he
therefore knows that he is playing tricks with reality; but by the
exercise of doublethink he also satisfies himself that reality is not
violated. The process has to be conscious, or it would not be carried
out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it
would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence of guilt.

Doublethink lies at the very heart of Ingsoc, since the essential act of
the Party is to use conscious deception while retaining the firmness of
purpose that goes with complete honesty. To tell deliberate lies while
genuinely believing them and to forget any fact that has become
inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back
from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of
objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which
one denies - all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word
doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the
word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of
doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the
lie always one leap ahead of the truth. Ultimately it is by means of
doublethink that the Party has been able - and may, for all we know,
continue to be able for thousands of years - to arrest the course of
history...

But since in reality BIG BROTHER is not infallible, there is need for an
unwearying, moment-to-moment flexibility in the treatment of facts. The
key-word here is blackwhite. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has
two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means
the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction
of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal
willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands
this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and
more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever
believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past,
made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the
rest, and which is known as doublethink.

The official ideology abounds with contradictions even when there is no
reason for them. Simultaneously, true to the principles of doublethink,
the Party rejects and vilifies every principle for which the Socialist
movement originally stood, and it does this in the name of socialism. It
systematically undermines the solidarity of the family all the while
appealing to the sentiment of family. Even the names of the four
Ministries by which Oceania is governed are a deliberate reversal of facts:

The Ministry of Peace concerns itself with War;
the Ministry of Truth with Lies;
the Ministry of Love with Torture;
and the Ministry of Plenty with Starvation.

These contradictions are not accidental. They are a deliberate exercise
of doublethink. If the High are to keep their places permanently - then
the prevailing mental condition must be controlled insanity.

The subtlest practitioners of doublethink are those who invented
doublethink and know that it is a vast system of mental cheating. In our
society, those who have the best knowledge of what is happening are also
those who are furthest from seeing the world as is. In general, the
greater the understanding, the greater the delusion: the more
intelligent, the less sane."



--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

On 25/05/16 20:37, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 25/05/16 17:21, Capitol wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/05/16 11:12, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2016 11:10:50 +0100, Capitol wrote:

logic defeats me!

Situation normal.

What a thoroughly unpleasant and obvious piece of snipping by the
other resident lefty****.

By their deeds shall ye know them....

Remember, he's a Remain fan! They can't possibly think of a single
benefit to staying in the EU, so have to resort to denigration.

Coming to an EU country near you. Lefty****s in full action

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...nt-threat-stri
kes-fuel-runs-dry/


To bring up the Airbus argument again, who on earth in their right mind
would take manufacturing to France.

The whole point of France is it's where you go to *not* work.

For France, the whole point of being IN the EU, is to avoid work, and
absolutely to avoid having to compete with anyone else.

Life is for good food drink and plenty of guiltless sex.

As an ideology it has much to recommend it. Its the practical
implementation that is such a bore...


--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:26:27 UTC+1, Capitol wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 14:12:13 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In ,
wrote:

Brexit is a leap into the unknown -


No, joining the EEC was a leap in to the unkoown.

Yes it was. Many years ago. So not unknown now.

Leaving the EU *is* a leap into the unknown.

Like leaping into the unknown was 43 years ago.

So is leaping into the unknown a good think or a bad thing, going by experience ?






IME it's a good thing if you're prepared to be flexible and work
hard,

which is the whole point of the EU as it IS NOT willing to work hard at anything just have endless meetings come up with cometties that's need new plush buildings and lots of money spent on it.



which going by previous posts. is against Dave's principles. I did
it 40 years ago and it was the best thing I ever did.


So what did you do ?



Yes, there were
ups and downs but I have a retirement lifestyle I could only dream of
when I was 30.

On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:43:13 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 25/05/16 17:21, Capitol wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/05/16 11:12, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2016 11:10:50 +0100, Capitol wrote:

logic defeats me!

Situation normal.

What a thoroughly unpleasant and obvious piece of snipping by the
other resident lefty****.

By their deeds shall ye know them....

Remember, he's a Remain fan! They can't possibly think of a single
benefit to staying in the EU, so have to resort to denigration.

Coming to an EU country near you. Lefty****s in full action

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...nt-threat-stri
kes-fuel-runs-dry/


To bring up the Airbus argument again, who on earth in their right mind
would take manufacturing to France.

The EU ;-)

On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:43:13 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Brexit is a leap into the unknown -

No, joining the EEC was a leap in to the unkoown.

Yes it was. Many years ago. So not unknown now.

Leaving the EU *is* a leap into the unknown.

As usual you have totally missed the point. You cannot claim it is a
leap in to the unknown and at the same time make predictions about what
dire things will happen.
--
bert

Ah good someone realised what I was getting at.