Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be
nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.
--
Chris French

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French
wrote:

Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be
nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.

I was 13 when I got my first darkroom.
Is she going to do colour negs, reversal, or just black & white negs
and prints?

Top tip,

get her something like this for handling film and loading the tank,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PATERSON-LAR.../dp/B005770FA6

That way she can do it watching the telly in normal lighting and
pretend she's got a job at Porton Down, and more importantly, you
won't need to make the darkroom quite as dark as you would otherwise.




--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Saturday, September 19, 2015 at 5:24:50 PM UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French
wrote:

Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be
nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.

I was 13 when I got my first darkroom.
Is she going to do colour negs, reversal, or just black & white negs
and prints?

Top tip,

get her something like this for handling film and loading the tank,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PATERSON-LAR.../dp/B005770FA6

That way she can do it watching the telly in normal lighting and
pretend she's got a job at Porton Down, and more importantly, you
won't need to make the darkroom quite as dark as you would otherwise.




--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Changing bag to load film in tank.

For printing all se really need is a sturdy table to hold the enlarger and another one to hold the developing dishes. A bucket of water underneath to drop the prints into until she is able to go where there is a water supply to wash them

I gave all my darkroom equipment to my sons school many years ago

Is it her that is really keen or daddy who wants to dabble again ?

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French wrote:

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

The problem with a cellar is drainage. Prints need to be fixed, then
(ideally) washed for a LONG time under running water. Unless you can get
a decent sized bath tub in there to collect the run-off, using the cellar
could be problematical.

On 19/09/15 16:54, Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.


The cellar seems a natural - collect the waste in a bucket or two.

Damp is offset with a dehumidifier but it's unlikey to be a problem if
you store the dry chemicals and paper elsewhere. Once developed, the
films/prints can be hung to dry anywhere suitable.

On 19/09/15 17:24, Graham. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French
wrote:

Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be
nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.

I was 13 when I got my first darkroom.
Is she going to do colour negs, reversal, or just black & white negs
and prints?

Top tip,

get her something like this for handling film and loading the tank,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PATERSON-LAR.../dp/B005770FA6

That way she can do it watching the telly in normal lighting and
pretend she's got a job at Porton Down, and more importantly, you
won't need to make the darkroom quite as dark as you would otherwise.

My dad used one. For loading the camera and then loading the film into a
developer pot.

The pot allowed you to add chemicals and flush out whilst keeping the
light off the film so you can actually develop *film* without a darkroom.

It's prints that you really need the darkroom for.

On 19/09/2015 16:54, Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

IMO, the best thing that happened to photography was digital. Your
daughter is likely to abandon the idea after processing a few rolls of
film and finding from the 70 shots she has only got a few usable images
worthy off taking through the printing stage for an enlarged image.

With digital there is no cost in taking a 1000 bad shots and then
deleting them from the SD card.

For film I used to go under the stairs in the dark for 5 minutes to load
it onto the spiral for the developing tank. Afterwards developing etc.
is in full light, usually at the kitchen sink.

For the enlarger and developing trays you need a flat surface. You
don't particularity need running water in the dark room. By the time the
photo needs to be rinsed in running water it's already developed and
fixed so it can be transferred to the kitchen sink in full light.


So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

Don't go to too much trouble until you find out that its a fad, or not.
The first experiments could be done in the kitchen etc. in
autumn/winter evening when its dark outside using minimal balckouts over
the windowsnight




--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Saturday, 19 September 2015 17:02:51 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be
nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.

Traditionally darkrooms are black, but I've also done work in one that was white, and it worked just as well. The main thing is to exclude every drop of light. If the door isn't rigid enough, a dark blanket fitted close over the frame helps.

15w red bulb needed for B&W prints. Yellow-green one for colour. Enlarger needed for prints of course. A few seed trays needed for prints. Label your chemicals effectively. A drum for film processing, and a lightproofed wardrobe you can stand in to load it. Some good paper, kentmere was my favourite when I last used it, but that wasn't too recent. Tray heater or any suitable bodge job to warm the chemicals.

Optionals... A little iron something if you want sepia prints. Blueprints need nothing but excellent ventilation - best to process them outdoors. Epidiascope if you want massive zoom ratios. Splicing tape is handy.


NT

In message , fred
writes
On Saturday, September 19, 2015 at 5:24:50 PM UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French
wrote:

Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be
nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.

I was 13 when I got my first darkroom.
Is she going to do colour negs, reversal, or just black & white negs
and prints?

Top tip,

get her something like this for handling film and loading the tank,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PATERSON-LAR.../dp/B005770FA6


Changing bag to load film in tank.

For printing all se really need is a sturdy table to hold the enlarger
and another one to hold the developing dishes. A bucket of water
underneath to drop the prints into until she is able to go where there
is a water supply to wash them

I gave all my darkroom equipment to my sons school many years ago

Is it her that is really keen or daddy who wants to dabble again ?

Her, I've got no great interest in doing it.

I'm avoiding buying anything much at the moment, as I don't really know
all of what I've got yet, and it might just be a flash in the pan.

Start off on B&W prints I guess and see how we go.
--
Chris French

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French
wrote:

Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be
nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Good for her: one of our local high schools is a Creative and Media
Studio School and I know the photography people there plunge students
straight into work with film cameras as a precursor to digital. If she
decides to take it up seriously then all this interest in film will
stand her in good stead.

One of my sons has gone back to film photography and develops his own
b&w stock. The lightproof stuff doesn't take up much room in a drawer
and is good enough to work with in the bathroom without too much fuss.
After he has created the negatives he scans them into his computer and
enlarges and prints digitally. I understand quite a lot of people do
that now. The colour negatives he sends away to a lab in the USA (he
lives just over the border in Canada)

Heck: I suppose I should say that I've gone back to using film too
since I've just bought a second SLR, a compact and a couple of
medium-format cameras to play with. It's like valve guitar amps vs
transistor; vinyl records vs CDs: place them side-by-side and the
differences are obvious but you can't say one is "better" than the
other. And I still reach for my digital camera first.

Nick

On 19/09/2015 16:54, Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.

Be aware that some of the chemicals are quite harsh and some (like me)
develop rashes from them.

I used to put a board on the bath and black out the room with blackout
cloth.

I would buy her a couple of rolls of film and have them processed
somewhere so she can see how much harder it is than using digital before
investing much.

If she likes it then you need a film tank and probably a
thermostatically controlled bath if you go colour film.

Then you will need an enlarger, masking frame, dishes, timer, tongs,
safe light for B&W.

For colour you really want an enlarger with dichroic filters. You can
get away with gelatin filters but its a real pain swapping them and they
do wear out.

Colour is much more critical of temperature control so you probably need
a tank and water bath but I have done it with just a print tank you roll
along the bench.

Its quite hard to actually find the stuff these days, google is pretty
useless from what I have seen.

On 19/09/2015 20:20, dennis@home wrote:


Its quite hard to actually find the stuff these days, google is pretty
useless from what I have seen.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Durst-m-60...item1ea3e647e6
if it still works.

On Saturday, 19 September 2015 20:45:24 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Durst-m-60...item1ea3e647e6
if it still works.

Fancy modern stuff. I started with an old Gnome. He wasn't very happy about it.


NT

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:29:08 +0100, Chris French wrote:

I'm avoiding buying anything much at the moment, as I don't really know
all of what I've got yet, and it might just be a flash in the pan.

Start off on B&W prints I guess and see how we go.

I found a changing bag adequate for loading the drum.

My dad fitted out our bathroom with various things to make a darkroom on
a temporary basis (he did part time professional photography). We had a
close fitting panel for the window frame (bolts from panel into frame);
enlarger table that fitted over the toilet, safelight on the end of the
bath (!!), run from one of those Y-shaped BC things on the light fitting.
Then a board over the bath for the trays, and we ran the developing tank
rinse hose in the sink.

The most fun thing was playing with reversal of monochrome film, to get
monochrome transparencies.

In message m,
lid writes
On 19/09/2015 16:54, Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.


I would buy her a couple of rolls of film and have them processed
somewhere so she can see how much harder it is than using digital
before investing much.

I'm not planning on investing anything much at the moment

If she likes it then you need a film tank and probably a
thermostatically controlled bath if you go colour film.

Then you will need an enlarger, masking frame, dishes, timer, tongs,
safe light for B&W.

For colour you really want an enlarger with dichroic filters. You can
get away with gelatin filters but its a real pain swapping them and
they do wear out.

Colour is much more critical of temperature control so you probably
need a tank and water bath but I have done it with just a print tank
you roll along the bench.

Its quite hard to actually find the stuff these days, google is pretty
useless from what I have seen.

Actually, it's not that hard to get it free, it's come up our local
freecycles a few times

Read my post Dennis, I've picked up someone's old darkroom stuff. I
don't really now exactly what I've got yet (only picked it up this
morning), but there is an enlarger, trays and other stuff.

I was just asking about suggestions on how to set something up.
--
Chris French

In message , alan_m
writes
On 19/09/2015 16:54, Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

IMO, the best thing that happened to photography was digital.

Quite :-)

Your daughter is likely to abandon the idea after processing a few
rolls of film and finding from the 70 shots she has only got a few
usable images worthy off taking through the printing stage for an
enlarged image.

With digital there is no cost in taking a 1000 bad shots and then
deleting them from the SD card.

For film I used to go under the stairs in the dark for 5 minutes to
load it onto the spiral for the developing tank. Afterwards developing
etc. is in full light, usually at the kitchen sink.

For the enlarger and developing trays you need a flat surface. You
don't particularity need running water in the dark room. By the time
the photo needs to be rinsed in running water it's already developed
and fixed so it can be transferred to the kitchen sink in full light.


So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

Don't go to too much trouble until you find out that its a fad, or not.
The first experiments could be done in the kitchen etc. in
autumn/winter evening when its dark outside using minimal balckouts
over the windowsnight

No I'm quite aware that it might be a fad.

My best bets seem to be using the cellar or maybe the utility room - I
could probably blackout the windows easily, and as we don't use the room
for anything other than washing clothes and storing stuff etc. I could
leave it up for periods of time.

--
Chris French

Bob Eager Wrote in message:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:29:08 +0100, Chris French wrote:

I'm avoiding buying anything much at the moment, as I don't really know
all of what I've got yet, and it might just be a flash in the pan.

Start off on B&W prints I guess and see how we go.

I found a changing bag adequate for loading the drum.

My dad fitted out our bathroom with various things to make a darkroom on
a temporary basis (he did part time professional photography). We had a
close fitting panel for the window frame (bolts from panel into frame);
enlarger table that fitted over the toilet, safelight on the end of the
bath (!!), run from one of those Y-shaped BC things on the light fitting.
Then a board over the bath for the trays, and we ran the developing tank
rinse hose in the sink.

The most fun thing was playing with reversal of monochrome film, to get
monochrome transparencies.


My original darkroom was in the cupboard under the stairs with
only a light bulb holder for power, so, like you I used s Y
splitter and bayonet adaptors for the safelight and enlarger.


Our class went on a geography field trip and me and a friend
exposed a roll of FP3 and HP3 respectively. It occurred to me
instead of making prints as I had intended, I would make
transparencies using s kit that came in a yellow plastic box, and
make a tape and slide show for the class.
A few years ago I caught up with my friend and discovered he still
had the slides and the tape.

http://youtu.be/SSHfTkifHYU
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Wrote in message:
On Saturday, 19 September 2015 17:02:51 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be
nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.

Traditionally darkrooms are black, but I've also done work in one that was white, and it worked just as well. The main thing is to exclude every drop of light.

the advice I remember reading was paint the walls of a poorly
blacked- out darkroom black to stop the leakage from being
further scattered about, but paint a well light-proofed darkroom
white, so the walls and ceiling reflect your safe-light around.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%


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On 19/09/2015 16:54, Chris French wrote:

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

I used to do "half digital" processing - i.e. developed my own films but
then scanned and printed them digitally from there.

As others have said a changing bag will sort the transfer of film into
the developing drum. After that you can turn the lights on.

You may be able to pick up a s/h jobo rotary processor (preferably with
"lift" if you can get one). That makes it easy to colour print and slide.


--
Cheers,

John.

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Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Never had one myself, though did do a little bit a few times with a
friend many moons ago. But' I'm pretty sure plenty of folks here have
done such things in the past.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

One possibility is the cellar - a bit damp, but ok plenty of space,- has
power, but no water or drainage. There a few different spaces down there
and only one small window in a light well that doesn't really do
anything much except provide a little ventilation, so making it dark
would be easy.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

Thanks.
Laundry,(Easy access to water) roller blind of modern equiv to tar paper
bit of hinged wood down each side that seal vertical edges of blind, top
of washing machine or whatever for enlarger, arrange dishes on a board
on sink.
That is what I used to do.

"Graham." wrote in message ...

Bob Eager Wrote in message:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:29:08 +0100, Chris French wrote:

I'm avoiding buying anything much at the moment, as I don't really know
all of what I've got yet, and it might just be a flash in the pan.

Start off on B&W prints I guess and see how we go.

I found a changing bag adequate for loading the drum.

My dad fitted out our bathroom with various things to make a darkroom on
a temporary basis (he did part time professional photography). We had a
close fitting panel for the window frame (bolts from panel into frame);
enlarger table that fitted over the toilet, safelight on the end of the
bath (!!), run from one of those Y-shaped BC things on the light fitting.
Then a board over the bath for the trays, and we ran the developing tank
rinse hose in the sink.

The most fun thing was playing with reversal of monochrome film, to get
monochrome transparencies.


My original darkroom was in the cupboard under the stairs with
only a light bulb holder for power, so, like you I used s Y
splitter and bayonet adaptors for the safelight and enlarger.


Our class went on a geography field trip and me and a friend
exposed a roll of FP3 and HP3 respectively. It occurred to me
instead of making prints as I had intended, I would make
transparencies using s kit that came in a yellow plastic box, and
make a tape and slide show for the class.
A few years ago I caught up with my friend and discovered he still
had the slides and the tape.

http://youtu.be/SSHfTkifHYU

That was a worthwhile field trip and nice slide show too.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 23:33:37 +0200, Graham. wrote:

Bob Eager Wrote in message:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:29:08 +0100, Chris French wrote:

I'm avoiding buying anything much at the moment, as I don't really
know all of what I've got yet, and it might just be a flash in the
pan.

Start off on B&W prints I guess and see how we go.

I found a changing bag adequate for loading the drum.

My dad fitted out our bathroom with various things to make a darkroom
on a temporary basis (he did part time professional photography). We
had a close fitting panel for the window frame (bolts from panel into
frame); enlarger table that fitted over the toilet, safelight on the
end of the bath (!!), run from one of those Y-shaped BC things on the
light fitting.
Then a board over the bath for the trays, and we ran the developing
tank rinse hose in the sink.

The most fun thing was playing with reversal of monochrome film, to get
monochrome transparencies.


My original darkroom was in the cupboard under the stairs with
only a light bulb holder for power, so, like you I used s Y splitter
and bayonet adaptors for the safelight and enlarger.


Our class went on a geography field trip and me and a friend
exposed a roll of FP3 and HP3 respectively. It occurred to me instead
of making prints as I had intended, I would make transparencies using
s kit that came in a yellow plastic box, and make a tape and slide show
for the class.
A few years ago I caught up with my friend and discovered he still
had the slides and the tape.

http://youtu.be/SSHfTkifHYU

Funnily enough, I did the transparencies for school as we were doing a
lot and it saved money. I didn't buy a kit - just got all the chemicals
(bar developer) from school.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French wrote:

Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

Good for her, encourage that willingness to explore.

So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome.

The only point that you need the total abscence of light is
transfering film from 35 mm canisiter to developing drum. A changing
bag will do that, either a proper one or perhaps a heavy duty black
garden waste/rubble sack.

Fold over a couple time the open end and tape closed. Cut the bottom
corners of just big enough to get hand inside and use a couple of
elastic bands well above the wrists to keep the bag in place and
light out.
Note heavy duty, ordinary black bin bags are semi transparent, check
your choosen bag for transparency and holes!. Also do the transfer in
darkened room not out in direct full sunlight... B-)

The dark room could be anywhere that has decent curtains and no
street light outside by just waiting until it's got dark.

Another thought is that we have a dressing room that isn't really
properly used. We I could use one end of that. It has two entrances, so
I could partition one end off with black plastic say - no window at that
end (power, accessible drainage and water. We do have plans to create an
en suite bathroom, and a separate storage room with a a partition wall
across dividing the room, so could potentially do the partition wall now
anyway.

KISS... will that wall happen? See above about night and decent
curtains. Or a frame and black plasic to fit the reveal.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French
wrote:

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Once you've got that, have a look at pinhole cameras. These can use photo paper
as "film", and that makes the dark requirement a lot less stringent. And it's
something different from digital.

(I was impressed by some long-term exposures of the ocean -- the motion averages
out over time, and the water looks perfectly flat.)

For chemicals, look at "nonstandard developers". Quick google gave
http://www.caffenol.org/, with suggestions such as cheap beer, coffee, beet
juice and other developers which sound like they won't break the bank.


Thomas Prufer

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:29:31 +0100, alan_m wrote:

With digital there is no cost in taking a 1000 bad shots and then
deleting them from the SD card.

.... and that is the single biggest reason why film photography is more
demanding, instructional and rewarding than digital.

On Sunday, 20 September 2015 12:33:27 UTC+1, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:29:31 +0100, alan_m wrote:

With digital there is no cost in taking a 1000 bad shots and then
deleting them from the SD card.

... and that is the single biggest reason why film photography is more
demanding, instructional and rewarding than digital.

less rewarding, more time consuming & more expensive


NT

"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French

wrote:

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Once you've got that, have a look at pinhole cameras. These can use photo
paper
as "film", and that makes the dark requirement a lot less stringent. And
it's
something different from digital.

(I was impressed by some long-term exposures of the ocean -- the motion
averages
out over time, and the water looks perfectly flat.)

For chemicals, look at "nonstandard developers". Quick google gave
http://www.caffenol.org/, with suggestions such as cheap beer, coffee,
beet
juice and other developers which sound like they won't break the bank.

As well as developing and printing ordinary B&W film and printing from them
(in a darkroom in the loft - hot in summer, cold in winter, kneeling on
chipboard floor with enlarger in front of me on floor and dev/wash/fixer
bowls for prints on floot) I also experimented with:

- Ilford XP5 film (B&W but developed as for colour film, uses dyes rather
than silver grains for image on negative)

- printing on B&W paper from colour negatives - very muddy (and probably
hopelessly non-panchromatic) prints

- printing from colour slides onto paper (yields a negative) and then
contact-printing that negative onto another sheet of paper - rather
contrasty prints, but a few looked superb.


XP5 was a bugger to get consistent results because the chemicals have to be
warmer than for B&W so the cool more quickly - both times I heated them to
the same temp and used the same timings for each stage, but one film was
much denser than the other. However XP5 seems to have a large exposure
latitude so prints from both films looked equally good in tonal range, even
if I have to expose prints for longer with one than the other. Grain of XP5
at 400 ASA is much finer than for HP5 (conventional silver-based film) at
same speed. And XP5 pushed to 1600 ASA, although much grainier, was far less
so than HP5 with same push-processing - prints from latter looked like
pencil sketches.

Photo club at school bought a bulk load of FP4 and teacher dispensed it to
us all in reusable cassettes of 36 exposures. Unfortunately all the film was
badly scratched with horizontal tramlines due to grid in the bulk dispenser
:-( Easy to clone out on a modern digital scan from the negs, especially
against plain sky where it is most noticeable, but almost impossible to hide
on a photographic print.


I wouldn't go back to film now - I can be far more creative with digital
camera and digital manipulation: adjust contrast, retouch blemishes, clone
out unwanted details like lamp-posts, correct colour casts, correct
perspective errors (ie rectangle becomes parallelogram if camera is not
square on to something - which is necessary if taking a photo by flash of a
reflective plaque etc and you don't want burnt out reflection of flash).

Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

It won't last five minutes. Do the minimum. At 14 they have very short
lived interests. When my eldest came home from school (having been got
at by some damn fool teacher) and demanded a darkroom I set her up in
the upstairs bathroom. Blacked out the window after a fashion and told
her to only open film cans when it had gone dark outside. I think she
used the set up all of twice.

Bill

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 12:42:01 +0200, Thomas Prufer
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French
wrote:

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

Once you've got that, have a look at pinhole cameras. These can use photo paper
as "film", and that makes the dark requirement a lot less stringent. And it's
something different from digital.

(I was impressed by some long-term exposures of the ocean -- the motion averages
out over time, and the water looks perfectly flat.)

For chemicals, look at "nonstandard developers". Quick google gave
http://www.caffenol.org/, with suggestions such as cheap beer, coffee, beet
juice and other developers which sound like they won't break the bank.


Thomas Prufer

Its worth mentioning that the next WPPD is on 24th April 2016.
http://pinholeday.org/

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 13:07:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 19 September 2015 20:45:24 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Durst-m-60...item1ea3e647e6
if it still works.

Fancy modern stuff. I started with an old Gnome. He wasn't very happy about it.


NT

I've still got my Beta II in the garage. Try doing colour with that!
(Not that I ever did).

I did plenty of Ektachrome X transparencies though, and nearly got
kitted out to make Cibachrome prints from them, but I considered it
too expensive.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:18:32 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

It won't last five minutes. Do the minimum. At 14 they have very short
lived interests. When my eldest came home from school (having been got
at by some damn fool teacher) and demanded a darkroom I set her up in
the upstairs bathroom. Blacked out the window after a fashion and told
her to only open film cans when it had gone dark outside. I think she
used the set up all of twice.

Just a flash in the pan?

When I came home from school, aged 14 and announced that I wanted to
make an electric guitar, who would have guessed that it would just be
a passing phase that would last fifty-two years (so far).

When, aged about 12, my eldest wanted to spend the summer holidays
learning to paddle a kayak, who would have guessed that he'd turn it
into a career that would take him everywhere from Nepal to the Grand
Canyon (so far)?

Nick

On 21/09/15 02:53, Nick Odell wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:18:32 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

It won't last five minutes. Do the minimum. At 14 they have very short
lived interests. When my eldest came home from school (having been got
at by some damn fool teacher) and demanded a darkroom I set her up in
the upstairs bathroom. Blacked out the window after a fashion and told
her to only open film cans when it had gone dark outside. I think she
used the set up all of twice.

Just a flash in the pan?

When I came home from school, aged 14 and announced that I wanted to
make an electric guitar, who would have guessed that it would just be
a passing phase that would last fifty-two years (so far).

When, aged about 12, my eldest wanted to spend the summer holidays
learning to paddle a kayak, who would have guessed that he'd turn it
into a career that would take him everywhere from Nepal to the Grand
Canyon (so far)?

Nick


One shoudl be encouraging and pragmatic.

When my son asked to get a guitar, we got a cheap box'o'rubberbands off
ebay and said, if he made progress, we'd get him a real guitar.

A couple of years or so later he's passed Grade 1 with Distinction (we
got him a decent guitar within the first year as he was so so consistent
about practising).

So back to the OP.

I'd go with what another poster suggested - start with film only which
needs a few trays, bag and tank.

If that persists, go to black and white printing with a makeshift
darkroom - B&W is a lot less fussy (red safelight, chemicals less fussy).

You never know...

Nick Odell wrote:

Just a flash in the pan?

When I came home from school, aged 14 and announced that I wanted to
make an electric guitar, who would have guessed that it would just be
a passing phase that would last fifty-two years (so far).

When, aged about 12, my eldest wanted to spend the summer holidays
learning to paddle a kayak, who would have guessed that he'd turn it
into a career that would take him everywhere from Nepal to the Grand
Canyon (so far)?

So, from what you're making out here, your kids didn't try anything
else? Most kids have brief flirtations with a whole lot of interests
before settling on one or two of them.

My point is that there's no point in the parents spending a mint right
at the start. With most activities it's possible to buy equipment a bit
at a time as and when the need arises. The other advantages of that are
that each new acquisition is more exciting, and making do with interim
stuff meanwhile is a good education.

Bill

On Saturday, 19 September 2015 18:04:43 UTC+1, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 16:54:42 +0100, Chris French wrote:

Someone on the local Freecycle was offering a load of darkroom gear,
which I've acquired. And I've rooted out my old film SLR. So now need to
construct some sort of darkroom space.

The problem with a cellar is drainage. Prints need to be fixed, then
(ideally) washed for a LONG time under running water.

I used to put them in the bath and run water over them, I cut a bit of pipe to insert in the plug hole, drilled a few holes up the side so the water would go down the plug hole. I used some old net crutains on a wooden frame across the bath to dry the prints.

Unless you can get
a decent sized bath tub in there to collect the run-off, using the cellar
could be problematical.

dirt might be a problem in a cellar.

On Saturday, 19 September 2015 18:29:33 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 19/09/2015 16:54, Chris French wrote:
Eldest daughter (14) is very much getting into photography. Digital of
course, but she likes the idea of having a play with film.

IMO, the best thing that happened to photography was digital. Your
daughter is likely to abandon the idea after processing a few rolls of
film and finding from the 70 shots she has only got a few usable images
worthy off taking through the printing stage for an enlarged image.

Using film gives an better apprecaition as to what real photography is rathe rthan just taking a snap shot.


With digital there is no cost in taking a 1000 bad shots and then
deleting them from the SD card.

Time is the cost and until you can tell the differnce between a good shot and a bad one how will you know which to delete.


For film I used to go under the stairs in the dark for 5 minutes to load
it onto the spiral for the developing tank. Afterwards developing etc.
is in full light, usually at the kitchen sink.

That's what I did.


For the enlarger and developing trays you need a flat surface. You
don't particularity need running water in the dark room. By the time the
photo needs to be rinsed in running water it's already developed and
fixed so it can be transferred to the kitchen sink in full light.

yes I agree and you don;t need the expensive dishes as cat litter trays works almost as well.


So any pointers/suggestions for setting it up are welcome. something at
least semi permanent would be preferable I think, and we have a few
places that might be suitable. What is the essentials, what would be nice.

don't want to spend to much money as it might be a bit of a flash in the
pan.

Don't go to too much trouble until you find out that its a fad, or not.
The first experiments could be done in the kitchen etc. in
autumn/winter evening when its dark outside using minimal balckouts over
the windowsnight.

My first attempts, wer ewaiting until might time closing teh curtains
and getting under the covers of my bed, it was certainly dark enough and worked but the problems of dust started to become apparent.

On Saturday, 19 September 2015 21:43:27 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:29:08 +0100, Chris French wrote:

I'm avoiding buying anything much at the moment, as I don't really know
all of what I've got yet, and it might just be a flash in the pan.

Start off on B&W prints I guess and see how we go.

I found a changing bag adequate for loading the drum.

you were rich then I remember them costing a small fortune, I used a plastic bag while under my blanket.


The most fun thing was playing with reversal of monochrome film, to get
monochrome transparencies.

I did that, heard a warning from my physics teachig at the time. he told me when he fiorst did it he exposed the film in front of an old photoflood bulb,
which got splashed and shattered in front of him. he was lucky he was wearing glasses.

On 22/09/2015 11:32, whisky-dave wrote:
On Saturday, 19 September 2015 21:43:27 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:29:08 +0100, Chris French wrote:

I'm avoiding buying anything much at the moment, as I don't really know
all of what I've got yet, and it might just be a flash in the pan.

Start off on B&W prints I guess and see how we go.

I found a changing bag adequate for loading the drum.

you were rich then I remember them costing a small fortune, I used a plastic bag while under my blanket.

ISTR mine was under a tenner... two bags inside each other with zips,
and elasticated cuffs on the entry holes etc.

The most fun thing was playing with reversal of monochrome film, to get
monochrome transparencies.

I did that, heard a warning from my physics teachig at the time. he told me when he fiorst did it he exposed the film in front of an old photoflood bulb,
which got splashed and shattered in front of him. he was lucky he was wearing glasses.




--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On 22/09/2015 11:23, whisky-dave wrote:

Using film gives an better apprecaition as to what real photography
is rathe rthan just taking a snap shot.


I disagree.
It means you have to write stuff down and/or remember why you did a
particular thing three days ago when you get around to viewing the results.
While digital lets you see what works there and then and its easier to
see why.
It also allows you to experiment and produce different pictures which
you would never do with film.



With digital there is no cost in taking a 1000 bad shots and then
deleting them from the SD card.

Time is the cost and until you can tell the differnce between a good
shot and a bad one how will you know which to delete.

You learn from your mistakes and you can make more mistakes with digital.

On Tuesday, 22 September 2015 21:46:31 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/09/2015 11:23, whisky-dave wrote:

Using film gives an better apprecaition as to what real photography
is rathe rthan just taking a snap shot.

I disagree.

it gives a better appreciation of what obsolete photography was like, how bad it truly was compared to digital.


NT

On Tuesday, 22 September 2015 21:46:31 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 22/09/2015 11:23, whisky-dave wrote:

Using film gives an better apprecaition as to what real photography
is rathe rthan just taking a snap shot.


I disagree.
It means you have to write stuff down and/or remember why you did a
particular thing three days ago when you get around to viewing the results.

No problem, sure if you take 1000s of snaps how will you remmeber but iof you're limted to a few then you'll remmeber them, especailly when it's costing you money.

While digital lets you see what works there and then and its easier to
see why.

This is not what people tend to do though.

It also allows you to experiment and produce different pictures which
you would never do with film.

in theory but rarely in practice.
Colleges are going back to film, you'll often here of schools and colleges askign about darkroom stuff.





With digital there is no cost in taking a 1000 bad shots and then
deleting them from the SD card.

Time is the cost and until you can tell the differnce between a good
shot and a bad one how will you know which to delete.

You learn from your mistakes and you can make more mistakes with digital.

But you have to realises they are mistakes first, and how will they know.