On Friday, 17 July 2015 11:52:20 UTC+1, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
David wrote:
The recommended wash these days for clothes is low temperature - 30C to
35C I think - and this is often quite a quick wash.

Not sure if anyone else finds this, but in my experience, bath and hand
towels get a bit smelly if they're not washed at a fairly high
temperature. I assume it's because the grease isn't getting removed
properly.

I'd love to know what hotels use to wash their towels - to me, they
actually smell clean, rather than scented.


Commercial laundries use chemicals not available to the public.
Really nasty stuff.
If we had a leak, it was handled as if it was radioactive.

On Friday, 17 July 2015 11:52:20 UTC+1, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
David wrote:
The recommended wash these days for clothes is low temperature - 30C to
35C I think - and this is often quite a quick wash.

Not sure if anyone else finds this, but in my experience, bath and hand
towels get a bit smelly if they're not washed at a fairly high
temperature. I assume it's because the grease isn't getting removed
properly.

I'd love to know what hotels use to wash their towels - to me, they
actually smell clean, rather than scented.

Also, flat items are dried on a "Calender" (rollers heated with steam).
They go in damp and come off dry.
Only linen and cotton will stand this treatment.
But nothing living can survive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esSWD3c-utg

On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 15:08:49 +0100, Chris French wrote:

snippage

And unless the clothing has been exposed to some significant nasty, I'm
not sure what we are supposed to be catching from clothes washed at 30C
or whatever (and again, surely the detergent will get most of them?)

A lot of the clothing I have is limited, on the label, to 40C; some to 30C,
so a higher temperature would risk damaging them.
The bedding and some clothes are rated for 60C - that's not high enough to
kill the nasties.
Now, I can't recall the exact temperature, but ISTR that the water samples I
used to test for bacteria were incubated at somewhere close to 40C as being
the ideal temperature for the bacteria to multiply. This seem to make 40C
the worst temperatu doesn't kill and does encourage bacteria whilst using
significant energy(1).
At 30C, it's about the same as the clothes would be when worn as a single
layer, so no change; at 20C, if the detergent does work well(2), the energy
is much less than at 40C (obviuosly) and the bugs will be "out of their
comfort zone" (sorry).

(1) Sadly, I log the energy per wash. The difference between 30C and 40C,
with the smae loading and close in time so that the incoming water will be
about the same, is around 35%.

(2) In Asda t'other day (sorry again - looking at LED lamps, honest) the
own-brand non-bio powder boasted of being suitable for 15C. A recent wash at
20C used about 30% of the energy of a 30C one, although I didn't see the
current go up to indicate the heaters being on, but I might have missed it.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 18/07/2015 08:15, Chris Hogg wrote:


Quite. If it didn't, we'd all have the runs, be s(h)itting on the loo
several times a day, getting **** on our clothes and hands, and
perpetuating the cycle. But that doesn't happen.



And if you laundered all your clothes and had a shower every time you
used the loo one TV program confirmed that it ends up on your tooth
brush anyway.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/fecal-matter-on-toothbrush/

http://tinyurl.com/n76gtf6

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 18/07/2015 08:15, Chris Hogg wrote:


Quite. If it didn't, we'd all have the runs, be s(h)itting on the loo
several times a day, getting **** on our clothes and hands, and
perpetuating the cycle. But that doesn't happen.



And if you laundered all your clothes and had a shower every time you used
the loo one TV program confirmed that it ends up on your tooth brush
anyway.

Doesn’t end up on my tooth brush because I don’t have a tooth brush
and wouldn’t keep it in the same room as the dunny even if I did.

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/fecal-matter-on-toothbrush/

http://tinyurl.com/n76gtf6

In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/07/15 16:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
2) Detergents in dishwashers wash away the germs along with the
food residues; it's what they do. Just like soap when you wash
your hands. You don't have to wash your hands in bleach or boiling
water to remove germs. Dishwasher detergents are probably
sufficiently caustic to kill the germs anyway, irrespective of
temperature.

Well, quite. Some of the most powerful bugs around are in your gut.
And therefore on your hands etc after having a s**t. ;-)


Have they not invented bog paper round your way Dave?

Does that mean you don't wash your hands after having a ****?

You might be surprised just how far such bugs get scattered during that
operation. Onto your clothes and surrounding surfaces.


So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not. But I don't waste money on anti-bacterial sprays for work
surfaces either, which according to TV advertising are essential.

--
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/07/15 16:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
2) Detergents in dishwashers wash away the germs along with the
food residues; it's what they do. Just like soap when you wash
your hands. You don't have to wash your hands in bleach or boiling
water to remove germs. Dishwasher detergents are probably
sufficiently caustic to kill the germs anyway, irrespective of
temperature.

Well, quite. Some of the most powerful bugs around are in your gut.
And therefore on your hands etc after having a s**t. ;-)


Have they not invented bog paper round your way Dave?

Does that mean you don't wash your hands after having a ****?

You might be surprised just how far such bugs get scattered during that
operation. Onto your clothes and surrounding surfaces.


So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not.

So what is the point in washing just your hands ?

On 17/07/2015 13:46, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:

In , Chris J Dixon
wrote:

Additionally, despite the images that advertisers used to love (I
don't see them nowadays) the last thing you should use on towels
is fabric softener, it significantly reduces absorbency.

Ah. Is that why brand new towels feel nice but are no good at drying
until they've been washed a few times?

Quite right. I once had some named brand seconds from an outlet
store that, despite repeated washing, never came good. That was
not money saved. :-(

Chris

Apparently (so I have been told) that part of the manufactureing process
when weaving cloth on modern high speed machines at some point the
`thread` gets soaked in a wax type solution so it doesnt jam in the
looms so all new stuff has this waxy coating that prevents proper water
penetration, hence the need to wash towels at a highh temp 1st wash to
get rid of it.

On 18/07/2015 10:00, PeterC wrote:

The bedding and some clothes are rated for 60C - that's not high enough to
kill the nasties.

The washing cycle is not just water. There is also the process of
thoroughly drying. Irrespective of how hot the wash if damp clothes are
left in a pile they will start to 'smell' within a very short period as
organisms in the air find a new home.


Now, I can't recall the exact temperature, but ISTR that the water samples I
used to test for bacteria were incubated at somewhere close to 40C as being
the ideal temperature for the bacteria to multiply. This seem to make 40C
the worst temperatu doesn't kill and does encourage bacteria whilst using
significant energy(1).

I assume that detergent is not added to the 40C water when growing
bacteria and it isn't followed by a spin/rinse cycle


(2) In Asda t'other day (sorry again - looking at LED lamps, honest) the
own-brand non-bio powder boasted of being suitable for 15C. A recent wash at
20C used about 30% of the energy of a 30C one, although I didn't see the
current go up to indicate the heaters being on, but I might have missed it.


15C washing detergent has been on sale in UK supermarkets for a decade
or more and I believe in the USA for a lot longer. Often as 'own brand'
and often a half the price (or lower) than some of the widely advertised
branded offerings.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 18/07/2015 12:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/07/15 16:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
2) Detergents in dishwashers wash away the germs along with the
food residues; it's what they do. Just like soap when you wash
your hands. You don't have to wash your hands in bleach or boiling
water to remove germs. Dishwasher detergents are probably
sufficiently caustic to kill the germs anyway, irrespective of
temperature.

Well, quite. Some of the most powerful bugs around are in your gut.
And therefore on your hands etc after having a s**t. ;-)


Have they not invented bog paper round your way Dave?

Does that mean you don't wash your hands after having a ****?

You might be surprised just how far such bugs get scattered during that
operation. Onto your clothes and surrounding surfaces.


So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not. But I don't waste money on anti-bacterial sprays for work
surfaces either, which according to TV advertising are essential.

I recall an article that said the most common antibacterial component in
these sprays and washing up liquids was quite harmful to us as well.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/07/15 16:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
2) Detergents in dishwashers wash away the germs along with the
food residues; it's what they do. Just like soap when you wash
your hands. You don't have to wash your hands in bleach or boiling
water to remove germs. Dishwasher detergents are probably
sufficiently caustic to kill the germs anyway, irrespective of
temperature.

Well, quite. Some of the most powerful bugs around are in your gut.
And therefore on your hands etc after having a s**t. ;-)


Have they not invented bog paper round your way Dave?

Does that mean you don't wash your hands after having a ****?

You might be surprised just how far such bugs get scattered during that
operation. Onto your clothes and surrounding surfaces.


So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not.

So one minute you're emphasising the fact that such bugs get scattered
around during "that operation". And the next minute you're admitting that
they're not worth bothering about.


But I don't waste money on anti-bacterial sprays for work
surfaces either, which according to TV advertising are essential.

The interesting thing about those ads is how much "stuff" the
actors, both adults and kids manage to spill all over their
"surfaces". Maybe they'd all be better off with bibs, sitting
in high chairs.


michael adams

....














--
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not.

So what is the point in washing just your hands ?

What is the point in you, Wodney?

Are you simply a computer programme designed to contradict every statement
made?

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
michael adams wrote:
So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not.

So one minute you're emphasising the fact that such bugs get scattered
around during "that operation". And the next minute you're admitting that
they're not worth bothering about.

You really need to follow the thread to get all comments in context.

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 12:52:21 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/07/15 16:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
2) Detergents in dishwashers wash away the germs along with the
food residues; it's what they do. Just like soap when you wash
your hands. You don't have to wash your hands in bleach or boiling
water to remove germs. Dishwasher detergents are probably
sufficiently caustic to kill the germs anyway, irrespective of
temperature.

Well, quite. Some of the most powerful bugs around are in your gut.
And therefore on your hands etc after having a s**t. ;-)


Have they not invented bog paper round your way Dave?

Does that mean you don't wash your hands after having a ****?

You might be surprised just how far such bugs get scattered during that
operation. Onto your clothes and surrounding surfaces.


So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not.

So what is the point in washing just your hands ?

You would be surprised how far the aerosol from your average toilet flush spreads.

On 17 Jul 2015, David grunted:

So - my dishwasher has various options including a fast low
temperature 35C wash. We are currently using the "daily" program which
goes to 65C and takes over two hours.

Killing germs on food items is probably more important thank killing
germs in your woolly jumper. However in the old hand wash days the
water was probably not much higher than 35-40C unless you were dead
'ard and/or wearing thick Marigolds.

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C 'for
really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the 55C every time;
SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results of both washes are of
course completely indistinguishable, but she won't have it. Nearly drives
me insane; probably the biggest single cause of marital disharmony in our
house!

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a dishwasher
properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...


--
David

Tim Streater wrote:

Lobster wrote:

I use the 55C every time; SWMBO goes for the top-end 65C one.
The results of both washes are of course completely
indistinguishable, but she won't have it. Nearly drives me insane;
probably the biggest single cause of marital disharmony in our
house!

Unless you have the surfaces checked for buggliwigs, you aren't really
going to know.

And if you do, you're probably eligible to appear on the next season of
'Obsessive Compulsive Cleaners'

"Lobster" wrote in message
22...
On 17 Jul 2015, David grunted:

So - my dishwasher has various options including a fast low
temperature 35C wash. We are currently using the "daily" program which
goes to 65C and takes over two hours.

Killing germs on food items is probably more important thank killing
germs in your woolly jumper. However in the old hand wash days the
water was probably not much higher than 35-40C unless you were dead
'ard and/or wearing thick Marigolds.

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C 'for
really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the 55C every
time;
SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results of both washes are of
course completely indistinguishable, but she won't have it. Nearly drives
me insane; probably the biggest single cause of marital disharmony in our
house!

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a dishwasher
properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...


It's amazing what a woman can teach you, I didn't even know there was a
wrong way to put milk back in the fridge.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

So you wash all your clothes and swab down
the bathroom every time as well then ?

Of course not.

So what is the point in washing just your hands ?

What is the point in you, Wodney?

Are you simply a computer programme designed
to contradict every statement made?

I don’t contradict every statement made, I don’t bother
to comment on the statements I agree with because no
one cares what I agree with, including me.

And of course you never ever contradict anything eh ?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:
So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not.

So one minute you're emphasising the fact that such bugs get scattered
around during "that operation". And the next minute you're admitting that
they're not worth bothering about.

You really need to follow the thread to get all comments in context.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You are in fact much less likely to get any **** on your fingers
than to get something from the **** on your clothes and the
rest of the room the dunny is in when you flush it away.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 12:52:21 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 17/07/15 16:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
2) Detergents in dishwashers wash away the germs along with the
food residues; it's what they do. Just like soap when you wash
your hands. You don't have to wash your hands in bleach or
boiling
water to remove germs. Dishwasher detergents are probably
sufficiently caustic to kill the germs anyway, irrespective of
temperature.

Well, quite. Some of the most powerful bugs around are in your
gut.
And therefore on your hands etc after having a s**t. ;-)


Have they not invented bog paper round your way Dave?

Does that mean you don't wash your hands after having a ****?

You might be surprised just how far such bugs get scattered during
that
operation. Onto your clothes and surrounding surfaces.


So you wash all your clothes and swab down the bathroom every
time as well then ?

Of course not.

So what is the point in washing just your hands ?

You would be surprised how far the aerosol from your average toilet flush
spreads.

No I wouldn't. But that means you should be washing your
clothes and the room the dunny is in, not just your hands.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Lobster
wrote:

On 17 Jul 2015, David grunted:

So - my dishwasher has various options including a fast low
temperature 35C wash. We are currently using the "daily" program which
goes to 65C and takes over two hours.

Killing germs on food items is probably more important thank killing
germs in your woolly jumper. However in the old hand wash days the
water was probably not much higher than 35-40C unless you were dead
'ard and/or wearing thick Marigolds.

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C 'for
really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the 55C every
time; SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results of both washes
are of course completely indistinguishable, but she won't have it. Nearly
drives me insane; probably the biggest single cause of marital disharmony
in our house!

Unless you have the surfaces checked for buggliwigs, you aren't really
going to know.

You do because the temperature difference isn't about bugs, its about
cleaning the remains of the food off what's in the dishwasher.

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a dishwasher
properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...

In ours she loads the crocks and I load the cuttles. Same is true for
unloading so we're both happy.

She also stacks clean stuff on top of whatever's in the cupboard, I put
the clean ones at the bottom of the stack to even out wear. In fact it
doesn't matter that she doesn't, as wear is still evened out.

On 18 Jul 2015, Tim Streater grunted:

In article , Lobster
wrote:

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C 'for
really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the 55C every
time; SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results of both
washes are of course completely indistinguishable, but she won't have
it. Nearly drives me insane; probably the biggest single cause of
marital disharmony in our house!

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a
dishwasher properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...

In ours she loads the crocks and I load the cuttles. Same is true for
unloading so we're both happy.

Ah, but handles up or down?

I put everything handles down so the business ends get cleaned, except for
sharp stuff like kitchen knives, obviously. She puts everything handles up
FFS. "But someone might fall over and get impaled on a spoon!"

She also stacks clean stuff on top of whatever's in the cupboard, I
put the clean ones at the bottom of the stack to even out wear. In
fact it doesn't matter that she doesn't, as wear is still evened out.

Christ, someone who's actually more anally retentive than me!

--
David

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 19:34:33 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2015-07-18, Lobster wrote:

[20 lines snipped]

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a
dishwasher properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...

The cause of a number of "free and frank exchanges of views" in our
house.

That used to be the case in mine until I learnt to STFU! :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 22:39:35 UTC+1, Tim Streater wrote:
Oh no points down so I don't impale myself - I'm getting careless in my
old age. Other day I was shaking the water off a spoon I'd just rinsed.
Whacked the top off a glass that was sitting in the sink.

Hah. Yesterday I had a tin (large) of paint (dulux, not the cheap stuff) being used as a weight to hold two pieces of wood together while the glue set, until I knocked it all off the worktop and the tin of paint split and disgorged its contents on the kitchen floor.

After mopping up with a bucket of water with fairy and turps in, I managed to dislodge the bucket of painty turpsy water whilst emptying it in the sink and sent the whole caboodle sloshing along the worktop.

She also stacks clean stuff on top of whatever's in the cupboard, I
put the clean ones at the bottom of the stack to even out wear.

That's just sensible; I do that too.

Owain

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:48:47 +0100, Phil L wrote:

"Lobster" wrote in message
22...
On 17 Jul 2015, David grunted:

So - my dishwasher has various options including a fast low
temperature 35C wash. We are currently using the "daily" program which
goes to 65C and takes over two hours.

Killing germs on food items is probably more important thank killing
germs in your woolly jumper. However in the old hand wash days the
water was probably not much higher than 35-40C unless you were dead
'ard and/or wearing thick Marigolds.

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C 'for
really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the 55C every
time;
SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results of both washes are
of course completely indistinguishable, but she won't have it. Nearly
drives me insane; probably the biggest single cause of marital
disharmony in our house!

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a
dishwasher properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...


It's amazing what a woman can teach you, I didn't even know there was a
wrong way to put milk back in the fridge.

Oh, there definitely is! However, *her way* might not necessarily be the
right way. Since I make frequent mugs of tea (brewed in the pot btw) with
a dash of pasteurised, I'm responsible for a good 90% of the occasions
when the milk has to be retrieved and returned to the fridge in this
household.

Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that to get the longest life
out of a 4 pint bottle, it's best to be gentle with it (parking it on the
hinge end of the door pocket and avoid splashing droplets onto the
underside of its screw top) and keep its excursion time to a bare minimum
to prevent unwanted warming of milk droplets above the milk line and any
that might be attached to the underside of the screw top. These areas of
the container are subject to the most rapid warming up effect from
ambient room air.

Whilst the bulk of the milk will nicely retain its fridge chill when the
bottle is left parked on the worktop for 5 to 10 minutes[1], the same
can't be said for any milk droplets residing elsewhere in the bottle and
it only needs one of these droplets to turn sour or culture an unwanted
bacterial colony to set the rest of the contents off.

A life extending routine (for the milk, that is!), when raiding the
fridge to put a drop of milk into a mug or a cup for a brew up or a
coffee, is to ready said crockery and pour as soon as possible after
taking it out of the fridge and removing the top, keeping hold of said
top for immediate replacement after dispensing the milk followed by an
immediate and gentle return to its spot on the fridge door shelf, next to
the door hinge, not forgetting to properly close the fridge door straight
away. Oh, and, for added measure, close the fridge door in between
retrieval and dispensing the milk (don't worry about the extra door
opening/closing cycle this involves, it's surprising how swiftly the air
temperature can rise in a fridge when its door has been left ajar for a
mere ten seconds or so).

It's very rare that we find ourselves having to dump the unused contents
before the BB date (usually selected at the time of purchase to give us a
week or more before the BB date expires). In fact, we (or rather I) often
manage to get anywhere from 2 to 4 days beyond the BB date before
starting to detect any signs of sourness or other indication of 'badness'.

Since I brew in the pot and put the milk into the mug first, it's been
my habit for many years to use that opportunity to sniff and taste the
milk beforehand which provides me with an early warning system to detect
the earliest signs of the milk 'going on the turn'.

Whilst my sage advice above might seem like a lot of faffing about, the
routine of it is as slick as any of the more 'carefree' and cavalier milk
handling systems in use by others "less obsessed". I do it not because I
have to but because I *can*. :-)

[1] When I first started this policy of absolute minimum exposure to room
temperature, it was more out of curiosity as to whether this could
improve the chances of a bottle of milk actually managing to attain its BB
date without going off. TBH, I hadn't considered what now seems to be the
real issue, thinking only of the bulk temperature of the contents which,
after all would only increase by a fraction of a degree for a ten to 15
minute exposure which really should have had almost no impact on its
'keeping qualities'.

When I realised that my changed 'milk handling routine' was actually
producing results, I had to stop and think again. Only then did it occur
to me that the problem of shortened life was a consequence of the milk
droplets above the 'milk line' being more rapidly warmed up by the
relatively brief exposure to a room temperature environment (maybe 5 or
10 minutes at a time as opposed to ten seconds or so when I changed my
routine).

Once just a droplet or two of milk has begun to turn, this can act as a
trigger on the bulk of the milk despite its low storage temperature if
and when it subsequently mixes with it. This why it's preferable to store
it upright on the door pocket shelf and avoid storing the milk on its
side on a shelf. There *is* a right and a wrong way to store milk in the
fridge. If the wife suggests that storage on the door pocket shelf in an
upright orientation is the only correct way, then, for Gawd's sake don't
argue the point with her, she's right!

--
Johnny B Good

Tim Streater wrote:

She also stacks clean stuff on top of whatever's in the cupboard, I put
the clean ones at the bottom of the stack to even out wear. In fact it
doesn't matter that she doesn't, as wear is still evened out.

I thought it was just me. ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 22:11:41 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
On 18 Jul 2015, Tim Streater grunted:
In article , Lobster
wrote:

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C 'for
really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the 55C every
time; SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results of both
washes are of course completely indistinguishable, but she won't have
it. Nearly drives me insane; probably the biggest single cause of
marital disharmony in our house!

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a
dishwasher properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...

In ours she loads the crocks and I load the cuttles. Same is true for
unloading so we're both happy.

Ah, but handles up or down?

I put everything handles down so the business ends get cleaned, except for
sharp stuff like kitchen knives, obviously. She puts everything handles up
FFS. "But someone might fall over and get impaled on a spoon!"

People do get killed by falling onto cutlery in a dishwasher, 2 a year I vaguely half remember. With 65 million people, that 1 in 30 million event happens.

But far more people are killed by food poisoning, so its pointy bits up here. The sharpest knives can go at the back.


NT

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 22:37:07 UTC+1, someone wrote:
In article , Phil L
wrote:

It's amazing what a woman can teach you, I didn't even know there was a
wrong way to put milk back in the fridge.

The wrong way is "carelessly" so that the plastic milk bottle biffs on
the edge of the slot in the door where you put bottles (it has a sharp
plastic edge). This causes a small hole in the milk bottle and the
bottom of the fridge to be noticeably full of milk the next time we
look.

Lying them down on shelves is certainly wrong. Somehow they always leak.


NT

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 17 July 2015 11:52:20 UTC+1, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
David wrote:
The recommended wash these days for clothes is low temperature - 30C to
35C I think - and this is often quite a quick wash.

Not sure if anyone else finds this, but in my experience, bath and hand
towels get a bit smelly if they're not washed at a fairly high
temperature. I assume it's because the grease isn't getting removed
properly.

I'd love to know what hotels use to wash their towels - to me, they
actually smell clean, rather than scented.

Also, flat items are dried on a "Calender" (rollers heated with steam).
They go in damp and come off dry.
Only linen and cotton will stand this treatment.
But nothing living can survive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esSWD3c-utg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogRIPeUfe_A

On 19/07/15 17:26, wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 22:37:07 UTC+1, someone wrote:
In article , Phil L
wrote:

It's amazing what a woman can teach you, I didn't even know there was a
wrong way to put milk back in the fridge.

The wrong way is "carelessly" so that the plastic milk bottle biffs on
the edge of the slot in the door where you put bottles (it has a sharp
plastic edge). This causes a small hole in the milk bottle and the
bottom of the fridge to be noticeably full of milk the next time we
look.

Lying them down on shelves is certainly wrong. Somehow they always leak.


NT


Or get a Miele with the 3rd mini cutlery tray - that solves the problem
nicely

On 19 Jul 2015, grunted:

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 22:11:41 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
On 18 Jul 2015, Tim Streater grunted:
In article ,
Lobster wrote:

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C
'for really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the
55C every time; SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results
of both washes are of course completely indistinguishable, but she
won't have it. Nearly drives me insane; probably the biggest single
cause of marital disharmony in our house!

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a
dishwasher properly anyway; but that's a whole different
discussion...

In ours she loads the crocks and I load the cuttles. Same is true
for unloading so we're both happy.

Ah, but handles up or down?

I put everything handles down so the business ends get cleaned,
except for sharp stuff like kitchen knives, obviously. She puts
everything handles up FFS. "But someone might fall over and get
impaled on a spoon!"

People do get killed by falling onto cutlery in a dishwasher, 2 a year
I vaguely half remember. With 65 million people, that 1 in 30 million
event happens.

But I suspect not by being impaled on a dessert spoon, as I continually
berate her...

But far more people are killed by food poisoning, so its pointy bits
up here. The sharpest knives can go at the back.


--
David

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 22:11:41 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
On 18 Jul 2015, Tim Streater grunted:
In article , Lobster
wrote:

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C 'for
really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the 55C every
time; SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results of both
washes are of course completely indistinguishable, but she won't have
it. Nearly drives me insane; probably the biggest single cause of
marital disharmony in our house!

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a
dishwasher properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...

In ours she loads the crocks and I load the cuttles. Same is true for
unloading so we're both happy.

Ah, but handles up or down?

I put everything handles down so the business ends get cleaned, except
for
sharp stuff like kitchen knives, obviously. She puts everything handles
up
FFS. "But someone might fall over and get impaled on a spoon!"

People do get killed by falling onto cutlery in a dishwasher,

Very very few do, like one in decades.

2 a year I vaguely half remember.

You are remembering it wrong.

With 65 million people, that 1 in 30 million event happens.

It doesn't with that one. Much more like 1 in 1300 million.

But far more people are killed by food poisoning,

Not from the incorrect orientation of the knives in the dishwasher tho.

so its pointy bits up here.

Here too, but that's just because I prefer the knives to be clean.

The sharpest knives can go at the back.

Makes no difference when you fall on the open
dishwasher with the rack they are in pulled out.

My cutlery holder has to go at the front of the rack.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:26:15 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 22:37:07 UTC+1, someone wrote:
In article , Phil L
wrote:

It's amazing what a woman can teach you, I didn't even know there was
a wrong way to put milk back in the fridge.

The wrong way is "carelessly" so that the plastic milk bottle biffs on
the edge of the slot in the door where you put bottles (it has a sharp
plastic edge). This causes a small hole in the milk bottle and the
bottom of the fridge to be noticeably full of milk the next time we
look.

Lying them down on shelves is certainly wrong. Somehow they always leak.

That's yet *another* reason not to lay them down on a shelf. **** poor
fridge design issues aside, the best place is on the bottom door pocket
shelf at the hinge end. The idea being to minimise disturbance as well as
time spent outside of the fridge for more than is strictly necessary (a
matter of less than ten seconds when pre-charging a cup or three for a
quick brew up or milky coffee(s), activities that most frequently account
for the milk being moved out and back into the fridge on a regular daily
basis).

--
Johnny B Good

On 19/07/2015 02:31, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:48:47 +0100, Phil L wrote:

"Lobster" wrote in message
22...
On 17 Jul 2015, David grunted:

So - my dishwasher has various options including a fast low
temperature 35C wash. We are currently using the "daily" program which
goes to 65C and takes over two hours.

Killing germs on food items is probably more important thank killing
germs in your woolly jumper. However in the old hand wash days the
water was probably not much higher than 35-40C unless you were dead
'ard and/or wearing thick Marigolds.

So - what does the team think about low temperature washes in a
dishwasher?

Ours has three settings - 55C 'standard'; 65C 'standard' and 65C 'for
really, really dirty pans'. When I switch it on, I use the 55C every
time;
SWMBO[1] goes for the top-end 65C one. The results of both washes are
of course completely indistinguishable, but she won't have it. Nearly
drives me insane; probably the biggest single cause of marital
disharmony in our house!

[1] Of course everyone knows that no women know how to load a
dishwasher properly anyway; but that's a whole different discussion...


It's amazing what a woman can teach you, I didn't even know there was a
wrong way to put milk back in the fridge.

Oh, there definitely is! However, *her way* might not necessarily be the
right way. Since I make frequent mugs of tea (brewed in the pot btw) with
a dash of pasteurised, I'm responsible for a good 90% of the occasions
when the milk has to be retrieved and returned to the fridge in this
household.


Why not use a small milk jug kept out? I have maybe 10+ cups of tea a
day when at home. Saves the bother etc.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 17/07/2015 13:48, Thomas Prufer wrote:

Also impressive the line of ladies running the laundry through ironing machines.

I did a three week stint in the hospital laundry, when on the above
machines we called ourselves calender girls

On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:40:05 +0100, Mrs Bonk wrote:

I did a three week stint in the hospital laundry, when on the above
machines we called ourselves calender girls

And you were all hot and steamy?


Thomas Prufer

Johnny B Good wrote:

That's yet *another* reason not to lay them down on a shelf. **** poor
fridge design issues aside, the best place is on the bottom door pocket
shelf at the hinge end.

Whilst on the subject of milk cartons, is it only me that finds
it increasingly difficult to grip the tab and peel off the seal?
I don't really want to have to keep the pliers in the kitchen.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
Johnny B Good wrote:

That's yet *another* reason not to lay them down on a shelf. **** poor
fridge design issues aside, the best place is on the bottom door pocket
shelf at the hinge end.

Whilst on the subject of milk cartons, is it only me that finds
it increasingly difficult to grip the tab and peel off the seal?

I don't really want to have to keep the pliers in the kitchen.

Why not ? Ones that are fine for that cost peanuts.

On Monday, 20 July 2015 10:21:15 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Whilst on the subject of milk cartons, is it only me that finds
it increasingly difficult to grip the tab and peel off the seal?
I don't really want to have to keep the pliers in the kitchen.
Why not ? Ones that are fine for that cost peanuts.

.... and are also handy for handling hot Fray Bentos pie tins.

Owain

wrote in message
...
On Monday, 20 July 2015 10:21:15 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Whilst on the subject of milk cartons, is it only me that finds
it increasingly difficult to grip the tab and peel off the seal?
I don't really want to have to keep the pliers in the kitchen.

Why not ? Ones that are fine for that cost peanuts.

... and are also handy for handling hot Fray Bentos pie tins.

Yep, I keep one in the kitchen for all of those myself.

And a much bigger set of those things that you can adjust
the spacing between the jaws of with the jaws fully open
that I can't think of the name of right now too.