"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 02/05/15 22:48, Simon Brown wrote:

You will with a chromebook too. Even more if
they have used a conventional laptop before.

We'll put that to the test - the kids

He was talking about elderly relatives, not kids.

have had access to a laptop before so I have a baseline.

They use a pad too and I almost never get asked about that.

I'm expecting a chromebook to be nearer the pad than the laptop.

But kids aren't the same thing as elderly relatives.

On 03/05/15 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word, then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

Wine or virtual box?


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 03/05/15 11:30, Simon Brown wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 02/05/15 22:48, Simon Brown wrote:

You will with a chromebook too. Even more if
they have used a conventional laptop before.

We'll put that to the test - the kids

He was talking about elderly relatives, not kids.

have had access to a laptop before so I have a baseline.

They use a pad too and I almost never get asked about that.

I'm expecting a chromebook to be nearer the pad than the laptop.

But kids aren't the same thing as elderly relatives.

Both have issues with laptops that involve me, IME...

On 03/05/15 10:53, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 10:26, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/05/2015 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word,
then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

Which version?

Zorin 9.

Which doesnt include word. I ask again was that Wine or VBox?

Or are you actually running libre office and think its word?


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 03/05/2015 10:53, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 10:26, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/05/2015 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word,
then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

Which version?

Zorin 9.

No, of word.

On 03/05/2015 11:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/05/15 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word, then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

Wine or virtual box?


Wine.

On 03/05/2015 11:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/05/15 10:53, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 10:26, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/05/2015 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word,
then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

Which version?

Zorin 9.

Which doesnt include word. I ask again was that Wine or VBox?

Or are you actually running libre office and think its word?


Lol.

On 03/05/2015 11:42, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/05/2015 10:53, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 10:26, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/05/2015 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word,
then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

Which version?

Zorin 9.

No, of word.

2007

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/15 11:30, Simon Brown wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 02/05/15 22:48, Simon Brown wrote:

You will with a chromebook too. Even more if
they have used a conventional laptop before.

We'll put that to the test - the kids

He was talking about elderly relatives, not kids.

have had access to a laptop before so I have a baseline.

They use a pad too and I almost never get asked about that.

I'm expecting a chromebook to be nearer the pad than the laptop.

But kids aren't the same thing as elderly relatives.

Both have issues with laptops that involve me, IME...

Sure, but I bet if you gave the geriatrics who had used Win previously
a chromebook, you would get plenty of questions about how to use it.

On 02/05/2015 21:21, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 02/05/2015 18:55, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/05/15 17:30, Bod wrote:

I dunno, but I have access to all of my stuff *all* of the time and even
when the internet is down.
I don't use the cloud etc.

This has 320GB hard drive:

http://chromebooks-review.toptenrevi...ok-review.html


I totally agree with you though.

Chromebooks are a blessing for the likes of schools and parents of
schoolkids.

But if they get some options so you can carry your life around with you,
that will get my vote.


Alas only 11.6".

Can you not use a USB or portable hard drive?


You can, and if you do this all the time doubtless you will find it
easy. My wife has never managed to remember how to, and on the rare
occasions where she asks me to copy, edit, or print something I find it
so unintuitive that these days I get her to email me an attachment. (She
can normally manage to do that).

In article , Davey
scribeth thus
On Sat, 2 May 2015 13:18:21 +0100
tony sayer wrote:

In article , Tim Watts
scribeth thus
On 01/05/15 23:43, Fredxxx wrote:

Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the
much lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec
is low & you have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

?? No you don't. I suggest you look at Libre Office.

+1 I have not used Word, Excel or PP for at least 5 years - just
libreoffice - and that includes dealing and resending work's MS
office documents.


Gave up with Open orifice and Libre office, use this now and its free
'tho there is a paid for version that does a bit more...


http://www.kingsoftstore.com/

That sounds as though it might be worth a try. If it operates more
'smoothly' than Libre Office, it should be worth keeping. I missed some
of the details that Excel could do, but Libre Office can't.
Now I'll have to remember them.......


Yep, just give it a go, it seems to be a knock off copy of m$ orifice..


--
Tony Sayer

But kids aren't the same thing as elderly relatives.

Both have issues with laptops that involve me, IME...

Tell me about it. Having just returned from a week-long holiday^WIT
support call with my mother in Pennsylvania. When I switched my
'phone back on at Heathrow, she'd already sent 2 emails complaining
about things.

Given that one of the things I'd done was convert her from dial-up to
broadband that's 25 times faster than mine, I think she's got a damn cheek.



Team viewer or LogMeIn required perhaps;?..

--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 02/05/15 18:56, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/05/15 17:46, Bod wrote:
On 02/05/2015 17:42, Dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.


Most windows laptops come with a demo version unless you go for one with
less than 10" screen which used to come with a full version of office
and may still do. The little one I bought the wife came with office 2013
home and student and only cost £169 last year.

If you buy one then they don't cost anymore than chromebooks and can run
chrome software, windows software and all the office software you can
get for linux.

There isn't really any point to chromebooks unless they are cheaper.

Agreed.

Disagreed. There's a lot of point in the lower buggerage factor. Try
giving a linux or windows laptop to your older relative. You'll get a
call every week.

As opposed to one a day with Windows?



I've actually just given a rather older friend of 83 years a WIN 7
desktop to replace his now deceased Mac, thats the CRT one in the
rounded plastic case.

He's got the hang of Thunderbird, Word, and a few other programs and his
comment was,

"I wish I'd had one of these a long time ago"

--
Tony Sayer

In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...
--
Tony Sayer

On 3 May 2015 11:28:13 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2015-05-03, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/05/15 11:30, Simon Brown wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 02/05/15 22:48, Simon Brown wrote:

You will with a chromebook too. Even more if
they have used a conventional laptop before.

We'll put that to the test - the kids

He was talking about elderly relatives, not kids.

have had access to a laptop before so I have a baseline.

They use a pad too and I almost never get asked about that.

I'm expecting a chromebook to be nearer the pad than the laptop.

But kids aren't the same thing as elderly relatives.

Both have issues with laptops that involve me, IME...

Tell me about it. Having just returned from a week-long holiday^WIT
support call with my mother in Pennsylvania. When I switched my
'phone back on at Heathrow, she'd already sent 2 emails complaining
about things.

Given that one of the things I'd done was convert her from dial-up to
broadband that's 25 times faster than mine, I think she's got a damn cheek.

Poor thing: now she's got to write her emails 25-times faster. How's
an old lady supposed to keep up?

Nick

On 03/05/15 12:02, Huge wrote:
On 2015-05-02, Bill wrote:
In message , Huge
writes
In the recent (last few weeks) I've plugged the following into my Linux
(Mint 17) machine;

- HP OfficeJet 4620
- Blackberry Z10
- Tomtom Satnav
- Garmin Satnav
- External USB disk(s)
- Several USB memory sticks
- Logitech Webcam
- Belkin Wifi dongle
- Bluetooth dongle
- Nikon DSLR (two different ones)

And it's all "just worked". No "downloading drivers", no manufacturers
disk, just plug it in and switch it on.

Well, just in the audio field where I often work, these didn't:

Ahh, audio (especially pro/semi-pro audio) is a problem, I'll give you that.

Yep Audio is probably the crappiest part of Linux at the moment



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.

On 03/05/2015 13:55, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have
seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.

Sorry! *192* GB.

On 03/05/15 13:26, tony sayer wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 02/05/15 18:56, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/05/15 17:46, Bod wrote:
On 02/05/2015 17:42, Dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.


Most windows laptops come with a demo version unless you go for one with
less than 10" screen which used to come with a full version of office
and may still do. The little one I bought the wife came with office 2013
home and student and only cost £169 last year.

If you buy one then they don't cost anymore than chromebooks and can run
chrome software, windows software and all the office software you can
get for linux.

There isn't really any point to chromebooks unless they are cheaper.

Agreed.

Disagreed. There's a lot of point in the lower buggerage factor. Try
giving a linux or windows laptop to your older relative. You'll get a
call every week.

As opposed to one a day with Windows?



I've actually just given a rather older friend of 83 years a WIN 7
desktop to replace his now deceased Mac, thats the CRT one in the
rounded plastic case.

He's got the hang of Thunderbird, Word, and a few other programs and his
comment was,

"I wish I'd had one of these a long time ago"

I am in a similar situation with a man who has a windows laptop and had
a disatrously slow crap ridden windows XP setup

He's now got linux, and is slowly getting to know how to click on icons
and buttons 'just like windows'

Frankly I prefer linux here because you can tailor the desktop to suit
the person you are setting it up for.

Once the application is launched, its a near identical experience in any
OS. Thunderbird/Firefox has more or less the same controls in the same
places on MAC WIN or LIN clients for example.

Which is why I don't understand - unless its fanbois parroting marketing
- all this religion between desktops. A desktop is, when all is said and
done a way to launch applications. The applications are the 'user
experience', not the desktop. And as more and more apps are now free on
all platforms, you really only choose the OS based on price and
performance, and there linux is a clear winner.

The only other reason to favour one OS over another, is if 'must have'
apps run on it. But there the magic of virtualisation means that, given
enough RAM, you can run as many operating systems as you like on a base
platform.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In article , Bod
scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.


Yes thats what we have the 32 bit, can't really see any reason to change
couldn't use me Turnpike on that...

--
Tony Sayer

On 03/05/2015 14:49, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Bod
scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.


Yes thats what we have the 32 bit, can't really see any reason to change
couldn't use me Turnpike on that...


It should run on the 64 bit version, you don't need new apps just
because you use 64 bit windows.
There were some really bad apps that didn't work as they asked how much
disk/ram was there and thought the answer was negative once they got big
enough.

On 02/05/2015 13:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low & you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

Open Office etc is free and is compatible with Word, etc.


I suspect that Kingsoft or one of the other Open Office packages would
be absolutely fine for what I think Dave is likely to need.

I wouldn't use it for my consultancy work because my clients use Office,
and the more advanced WORD features like tables of contents, endnotes,
cross references etc are not compatible. This matters if you are writing
or updating 50 page technical reports, it is unlikely to be a problem
for preparing specifications, advertising material, invoices, and
general correspondance.

Similarly people in the financial world who use macros in Excel
spreadsheets extensively would presumably be well advised to stick with
Office.

One merit of really cheap hardware is that it might actually be worth
buying a pair of chromebooks, that way you have an instant backup if one
dies / breaks / gets stolen. (I ended up buying a duplicate laptop
because a clients' security software trashed my first machine, resulting
in a warrenty replacement of the hard drive).

In article . com,
Dennis@home scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 14:49, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Bod
scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.


Yes thats what we have the 32 bit, can't really see any reason to change
couldn't use me Turnpike on that...


It should run on the 64 bit version, you don't need new apps just
because you use 64 bit windows.
There were some really bad apps that didn't work as they asked how much
disk/ram was there and thought the answer was negative once they got big
enough.

Well over on turnpike support they say that it doesn't run under 64 bit.

Mind you its a very olde programme now but I really like the interface
and the way it works..

No plans here to go 4 bit for a while yet, but the second hand laptop
came with WIN 7 64 bit ..

What's the big user advantage of 64 ?..


--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
newshound scribeth thus
On 02/05/2015 13:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low & you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

Open Office etc is free and is compatible with Word, etc.


I suspect that Kingsoft or one of the other Open Office packages would
be absolutely fine for what I think Dave is likely to need.

I wouldn't use it for my consultancy work because my clients use Office,
and the more advanced WORD features like tables of contents, endnotes,
cross references etc are not compatible. This matters if you are writing
or updating 50 page technical reports, it is unlikely to be a problem
for preparing specifications, advertising material, invoices, and

Understood.. my missus had that problem and then bought a copy of
Kingsoft and didn't seem to have any further problems..


general correspondance.


Yep, I suspect that wordpad would suffice for most peoples needs..

Similarly people in the financial world who use macros in Excel
spreadsheets extensively would presumably be well advised to stick with
Office.

One merit of really cheap hardware is that it might actually be worth
buying a pair of chromebooks, that way you have an instant backup if one
dies / breaks / gets stolen. (I ended up buying a duplicate laptop
because a clients' security software trashed my first machine, resulting
in a warrenty replacement of the hard drive).

--
Tony Sayer

"I wish I'd had one of these a long time ago"

I am in a similar situation with a man who has a windows laptop and had
a disatrously slow crap ridden windows XP setup

He's now got linux, and is slowly getting to know how to click on icons
and buttons 'just like windows'

Frankly I prefer linux here because you can tailor the desktop to suit
the person you are setting it up for.

Once the application is launched, its a near identical experience in any
OS. Thunderbird/Firefox has more or less the same controls in the same
places on MAC WIN or LIN clients for example.

Which is why I don't understand - unless its fanbois parroting marketing
- all this religion between desktops. A desktop is, when all is said and
done a way to launch applications. The applications are the 'user
experience', not the desktop. And as more and more apps are now free on
all platforms, you really only choose the OS based on price and
performance, and there linux is a clear winner.

The only other reason to favour one OS over another, is if 'must have'
apps run on it. But there the magic of virtualisation means that, given
enough RAM, you can run as many operating systems as you like on a base
platform.



I suspect that this debate will run and run and run till we get a UKIP
govvermint;!..


--
Tony Sayer

On 03/05/2015 17:15, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/05/15 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word,
then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

I'm running Office 2008 on my Mac.

2008 !?

On 03/05/2015 17:07, tony sayer wrote:
In article . com,
Dennis@home scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 14:49, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Bod
scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.


Yes thats what we have the 32 bit, can't really see any reason to change
couldn't use me Turnpike on that...


It should run on the 64 bit version, you don't need new apps just
because you use 64 bit windows.
There were some really bad apps that didn't work as they asked how much
disk/ram was there and thought the answer was negative once they got big
enough.

Well over on turnpike support they say that it doesn't run under 64 bit.

Mind you its a very olde programme now but I really like the interface
and the way it works..

No plans here to go 4 bit for a while yet, but the second hand laptop
came with WIN 7 64 bit ..

What's the big user advantage of 64 ?..



Unless you have more RAM not a lot.
Quite a lot of the old stack exploits probably fail but any recent AV
software will catch them anyway.

On 03/05/2015 17:34, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bod
wrote:

On 03/05/2015 17:15, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/05/15 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with
laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word,
then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

I'm running Office 2008 on my Mac.

2008 !?

Version 12.3.6 to be precise.

That version must be specifically for Macs...yes?

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
The only other reason to favour one OS over another, is if 'must have'
apps run on it. But there the magic of virtualisation means that, given
enough RAM, you can run as many operating systems as you like on a base
platform.

Well, I'm playing with Haiku (son of BeOS) on a real machine because I
couldn't get it to work virtually. I suppose no-one here is an expert?

The demise of Beos still makes me sad, but I don't think I would
recommend it to Dave!
--
Bill

On 03/05/2015 17:52, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bod
wrote:

On 03/05/2015 17:34, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bod
wrote:

On 03/05/2015 17:15, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/05/15 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to
get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with
laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word,
then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

I'm running Office 2008 on my Mac.

2008 !?

Version 12.3.6 to be precise.

That version must be specifically for Macs...yes?

Well it wouldn't work otherwise, would it? I don't like the ribbon so
I've not bothered to upgrade (?) to the 2012 version.

How would I know that, I've never used a Mac.
It was a fair question.

On 03/05/2015 18:15, Bill wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
The only other reason to favour one OS over another, is if 'must have'
apps run on it. But there the magic of virtualisation means that,
given enough RAM, you can run as many operating systems as you like on
a base platform.

Well, I'm playing with Haiku (son of BeOS) on a real machine because I
couldn't get it to work virtually. I suppose no-one here is an expert?

The demise of Beos still makes me sad, but I don't think I would
recommend it to Dave!

I remember in a previous life trying out Beos, but can't recall what it
was like. I vaguely remember it being sort of like Windows.
I seem to remember being impressed with it though.
You'll have to remind me what it was like please.

In message , Bod
writes
I remember in a previous life trying out Beos, but can't recall what it
was like. I vaguely remember it being sort of like Windows.
I seem to remember being impressed with it though.
You'll have to remind me what it was like please.

Https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/gui.html

or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBq56Ovx38I

will give an impression.


Haiku is for all intents and purposes, Beos, and seems to have nightly
builds, but the last official release was in, I think, 2012. That's what
I'm playing with, and it is still very nearly an attractive OS.

I got quite a long way into Beos years ago, but ran out of time and gave
up because I never managed to get the local networking going.

I still can't, but haven't spent much time on it.
--
Bill

On 03/05/2015 19:31, Bill wrote:
In message , Bod
writes
I remember in a previous life trying out Beos, but can't recall what
it was like. I vaguely remember it being sort of like Windows.
I seem to remember being impressed with it though.
You'll have to remind me what it was like please.

Https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/gui.html

or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBq56Ovx38I

will give an impression.


Haiku is for all intents and purposes, Beos, and seems to have nightly
builds, but the last official release was in, I think, 2012. That's what
I'm playing with, and it is still very nearly an attractive OS.

I got quite a long way into Beos years ago, but ran out of time and gave
up because I never managed to get the local networking going.

I still can't, but haven't spent much time on it.

Ok, thanks for that.

On 03/05/15 17:15, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/05/15 08:36, Bod wrote:
On 03/05/2015 00:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with laptops
don't include Word.

I think you are missing the point, that if you plan to buy Word,
then in
general you need windows.


I run Windows Word on a Linux Distro.

I'm running Office 2008 on my Mac.

You have my sympathy.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 03/05/15 17:33, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/05/2015 17:07, tony sayer wrote:
In article . com,
Dennis@home scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 14:49, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Bod
scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I
have seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the
inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the
OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend
money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all
these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly
because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.


Yes thats what we have the 32 bit, can't really see any reason to
change
couldn't use me Turnpike on that...


It should run on the 64 bit version, you don't need new apps just
because you use 64 bit windows.
There were some really bad apps that didn't work as they asked how much
disk/ram was there and thought the answer was negative once they got big
enough.

Well over on turnpike support they say that it doesn't run under 64 bit.

Mind you its a very olde programme now but I really like the interface
and the way it works..

No plans here to go 4 bit for a while yet, but the second hand laptop
came with WIN 7 64 bit ..

What's the big user advantage of 64 ?..



Unless you have more RAM not a lot.

Well CPU intensive stuff runs twice as fast.

I guess thats 'not a lot'


Quite a lot of the old stack exploits probably fail but any recent AV
software will catch them anyway.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have seen
a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM

That is just plain wrong.

and thats sod all these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/15 13:26, tony sayer wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 02/05/15 18:56, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/05/15 17:46, Bod wrote:
On 02/05/2015 17:42, Dennis@home wrote:
On 02/05/2015 13:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
since just about the only reason most people buy Windows is to get
Word
compatibility,

More bollox.

I'd say the majority of OEM versions of Windows included with
laptops
don't include Word.


Most windows laptops come with a demo version unless you go for one
with
less than 10" screen which used to come with a full version of office
and may still do. The little one I bought the wife came with office
2013
home and student and only cost £169 last year.

If you buy one then they don't cost anymore than chromebooks and can
run
chrome software, windows software and all the office software you can
get for linux.

There isn't really any point to chromebooks unless they are cheaper.

Agreed.

Disagreed. There's a lot of point in the lower buggerage factor. Try
giving a linux or windows laptop to your older relative. You'll get a
call every week.

As opposed to one a day with Windows?



I've actually just given a rather older friend of 83 years a WIN 7
desktop to replace his now deceased Mac, thats the CRT one in the
rounded plastic case.

He's got the hang of Thunderbird, Word, and a few other programs and his
comment was,

"I wish I'd had one of these a long time ago"

I am in a similar situation with a man who has a windows laptop and had a
disatrously slow crap ridden windows XP setup

He's now got linux, and is slowly getting to know how to click on icons
and buttons 'just like windows'

Frankly I prefer linux here because you can tailor the desktop to suit the
person you are setting it up for.

Once the application is launched, its a near identical experience in any
OS. Thunderbird/Firefox has more or less the same controls in the same
places on MAC WIN or LIN clients for example.

Which is why I don't understand - unless its fanbois parroting marketing -
all this religion between desktops. A desktop is, when all is said and
done a way to launch applications. The applications are the 'user
experience', not the desktop. And as more and more apps are now free on
all platforms, you really only choose the OS based on price and
performance, and there linux is a clear winner.

The only other reason to favour one OS over another, is if 'must have'
apps run on it. But there the magic of virtualisation means that, given
enough RAM, you can run as many operating systems as you like on a base
platform.

But there isn't any point in complicating things by not using the
OS that has the must have app that is only available on that OS
and having to pay more for the extra ram so it runs well.

On 03/05/2015 20:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/05/15 17:33, Dennis@home wrote:
On 03/05/2015 17:07, tony sayer wrote:
In article . com,
Dennis@home scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 14:49, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Bod
scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I
have seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the
inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the
OS and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend
money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all
these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly
because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.


Yes thats what we have the 32 bit, can't really see any reason to
change
couldn't use me Turnpike on that...


It should run on the 64 bit version, you don't need new apps just
because you use 64 bit windows.
There were some really bad apps that didn't work as they asked how much
disk/ram was there and thought the answer was negative once they got
big
enough.

Well over on turnpike support they say that it doesn't run under 64 bit.

Mind you its a very olde programme now but I really like the interface
and the way it works..

No plans here to go 4 bit for a while yet, but the second hand laptop
came with WIN 7 64 bit ..

What's the big user advantage of 64 ?..



Unless you have more RAM not a lot.

Well CPU intensive stuff runs twice as fast.

I guess thats 'not a lot'


Rubbish, name something that does.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
Dennis@home scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 14:49, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Bod
scribeth thus
On 03/05/2015 13:30, tony sayer wrote:
In just the five or so years that I have been using Linux, I have
seen a
huge improvement in the way it recognises stuff, including the
inbuilt
NVIDIA card in the PC. It's all getting better and better.

+1

The worst thing about windows is the updating, which bloats the OS
and
eventually slows the machine to a crawl. Then you need to spend money
upgrading RAM. A mug's game.

Fer Christ sakes!, WIN 7 can only use 4 G of RAM and thats sod all
these
days.

This WIN machine updates no and again and its very fast mainly because
of a solid state drive.

But using spinning rust it was no slouch before either...

Windows 7 64 bit system can use up to 193GB of ram.
It's only the 32 bit system that's restricted to use just a bit less
than 4GB.


Yes thats what we have the 32 bit, can't really see any reason to change
couldn't use me Turnpike on that...


It should run on the 64 bit version, you don't need new apps just
because you use 64 bit windows.
There were some really bad apps that didn't work as they asked how much
disk/ram was there and thought the answer was negative once they got big
enough.

Well over on turnpike support they say that it doesn't run under 64 bit.

Mind you its a very olde programme now but I really like the interface
and the way it works..

No plans here to go 4 bit for a while yet, but the second hand laptop
came with WIN 7 64 bit ..

What's the big user advantage of 64 ?..

You can use more than 4GB of ram. Plenty of users find that useful.
I'm currently using 6GB.

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
newshound scribeth thus
On 02/05/2015 13:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low &
you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

Open Office etc is free and is compatible with Word, etc.


I suspect that Kingsoft or one of the other Open Office packages would
be absolutely fine for what I think Dave is likely to need.

I wouldn't use it for my consultancy work because my clients use Office,
and the more advanced WORD features like tables of contents, endnotes,
cross references etc are not compatible. This matters if you are writing
or updating 50 page technical reports, it is unlikely to be a problem
for preparing specifications, advertising material, invoices, and

Understood.. my missus had that problem and then bought a copy of
Kingsoft and didn't seem to have any further problems..


general correspondance.


Yep, I suspect that wordpad would suffice for most peoples needs..

Really depends on what they use at work. Doesn’t really make
much sense to not use what you use at work at home too.

Similarly people in the financial world who use macros in Excel
spreadsheets extensively would presumably be well advised to stick with
Office.

One merit of really cheap hardware is that it might actually be worth
buying a pair of chromebooks, that way you have an instant backup if one
dies / breaks / gets stolen. (I ended up buying a duplicate laptop
because a clients' security software trashed my first machine, resulting
in a warrenty replacement of the hard drive).