On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:51:22 -0700 (PDT)
whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 April 2015 16:18:59 UTC+1, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:44:29 +0100
"Dennis@home" wrote:


snip


There isn't any point in missing a bargain if you see one, win 8.1
works fine and the upgrade to win 10 is free later this year.

If it's worth buying anyway, you can always buy it and then put
Linux on it as well as keeping the Windows OS.
Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS. Linux is free, in two ways.

--
Davey.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2015 12:22, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Time has come to replace the tower PC with a laptop, so I'm after some
advice from the learned people here, since I'm a computer numpty.

I'm looking for something around 16". I don't play games (only
solitaire) I don't watch films or download music. Don't want a
touchscreen, much prefer keyboard/mouse.

I use Word & Excel frequently, sometime quite big documents. I surf the
net often & use e-mail a lot. We have 4G WiFi at home, probably won't
ever take it out, but will use upstairs in the office, on the deck &
downstairs in the lounge.

Reluctant to change from MS Windows simply because I know how to use it.

Any advice on processor type, memory, make, supplier much appreciated.


Another probably daft question.

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

One of my customers is a big fan. I saw one in PC World today & it will
work with Word & Excel & was very light. We have Virgin 4G broadband at
home.

"Davey" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:51:22 -0700 (PDT)
whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 April 2015 16:18:59 UTC+1, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:44:29 +0100
"Dennis@home" wrote:


snip


There isn't any point in missing a bargain if you see one, win 8.1
works fine and the upgrade to win 10 is free later this year.

If it's worth buying anyway, you can always buy it and then put
Linux on it as well as keeping the Windows OS.
Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Linux is free, in two ways.

On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

No, free even for upgrades, unlike with Win until just recently.

Their equivalent of Office is free too.

On 29/04/15 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:


What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.


The intel based ones (as opposed to the ARM ones) can boot linux, or run
linux in a chroot environment in parallel with ChromeOS.

On 29/04/2015 22:52, Simon Brown wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

No, free even for upgrades, unlike with Win until just recently.

Their equivalent of Office is free too.


No..
its included in the price of the hardware.
Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too old and
that they want you to buy new hardware, then you find the upgrade wont
install.
This happens even when the hardware is actually quite capable of running
the upgrade as can be seen on youtube where people have hacked the
upgrade to run on hardware to old to run it.

You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*, Apple gets
*hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't develop much hardware
themselves.)

On 29/04/2015 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2015 12:22, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Time has come to replace the tower PC with a laptop, so I'm after some
advice from the learned people here, since I'm a computer numpty.

I'm looking for something around 16". I don't play games (only
solitaire) I don't watch films or download music. Don't want a
touchscreen, much prefer keyboard/mouse.

I use Word & Excel frequently, sometime quite big documents. I surf the
net often & use e-mail a lot. We have 4G WiFi at home, probably won't
ever take it out, but will use upstairs in the office, on the deck &
downstairs in the lounge.

Reluctant to change from MS Windows simply because I know how to use it.

Any advice on processor type, memory, make, supplier much appreciated.


Another probably daft question.

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

Could you elaborate please :-)



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 30/04/2015 09:09, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 29/04/2015 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

Could you elaborate please :-)



I'd agree with that. Wife has one and she prefers it to a full laptop,
for basic shopping/browsing etc. But it is based on saving everything to
the cloud, convenient in some ways but tends to tie you into the Google
ecosystem / file formats etc. There *are* work-arounds, but if you are
used to Windows / Office it is more stuff to learn. They are light,
quick to fire up (but her battery is now very limited so needs to be on
mains most of the time) and they are really most useful when you have a
wifi connection.

There are places where they could be excellent (schools in Africa, say)
but for my money they are not as convenient as a cheap android tablet
(plus keyboard, if you want one). They might still have a price edge
over a full laptop but TBH quite decent small laptops without optical
drives are no longer that expensive.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/15 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:


What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.


The intel based ones (as opposed to the ARM ones) can boot linux, or run
linux in a chroot environment in parallel with ChromeOS.

And that is much more limited than any laptop
which can do all that and much more as well.

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:52, Simon Brown wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

No, free even for upgrades, unlike with Win until just recently.

Their equivalent of Office is free too.

No..

Yes.

its included in the price of the hardware.

The upgrades aren't.

Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too old

They don’t start to charge you if your hardware is too old.

and that they want you to buy new hardware,

But you are free to ignore that want.

then you find the upgrade wont install.

Still cost you nothing to find that out.

This happens even when the hardware is actually quite capable of running
the upgrade as can be seen on youtube where people have hacked the upgrade
to run on hardware to old to run it.

Still free.

You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*,

It develops and sells *hardware* too, most obviously with the xbox.

Apple gets *hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't develop much
hardware themselves.)

Bull****.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2015 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2015 12:22, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Time has come to replace the tower PC with a laptop, so I'm after some
advice from the learned people here, since I'm a computer numpty.

I'm looking for something around 16". I don't play games (only
solitaire) I don't watch films or download music. Don't want a
touchscreen, much prefer keyboard/mouse.

I use Word & Excel frequently, sometime quite big documents. I surf the
net often & use e-mail a lot. We have 4G WiFi at home, probably won't
ever take it out, but will use upstairs in the office, on the deck &
downstairs in the lounge.

Reluctant to change from MS Windows simply because I know how to use
it.

Any advice on processor type, memory, make, supplier much appreciated.


Another probably daft question.

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

Could you elaborate please :-)

You can't run most of the software that will run on a laptop.

On 30/04/2015 11:21, Simon Brown wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2015 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2015 12:22, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Time has come to replace the tower PC with a laptop, so I'm after some
advice from the learned people here, since I'm a computer numpty.

I'm looking for something around 16". I don't play games (only
solitaire) I don't watch films or download music. Don't want a
touchscreen, much prefer keyboard/mouse.

I use Word & Excel frequently, sometime quite big documents. I surf
the
net often & use e-mail a lot. We have 4G WiFi at home, probably won't
ever take it out, but will use upstairs in the office, on the deck &
downstairs in the lounge.

Reluctant to change from MS Windows simply because I know how to
use it.

Any advice on processor type, memory, make, supplier much appreciated.


Another probably daft question.

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

Could you elaborate please :-)

You can't run most of the software that will run on a laptop.

They are basically web browsing machines, very limited.

On 30/04/15 11:47, Bod wrote:

You can't run most of the software that will run on a laptop.

They are basically web browsing machines, very limited.

I did say earlier that some (notably Intel ones do have to open to run
Linux on too - given the best of both worlds:

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-install...-ful-509039343

On Wednesday, 29 April 2015 18:57:25 UTC+1, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:51:22 -0700 (PDT)
whisky-dave wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 April 2015 16:18:59 UTC+1, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 15:44:29 +0100
"Dennis@home" wrote:


snip


There isn't any point in missing a bargain if you see one, win 8.1
works fine and the upgrade to win 10 is free later this year.

If it's worth buying anyway, you can always buy it and then put
Linux on it as well as keeping the Windows OS.
Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS. Linux is free, in two ways.

Mac OS is free with teh mac, and for me the last two versions were both free.
I've had free OS with macs since I goit a DVD of snow leopard thrpough the post too. After that I got a free upgrade from SL to Lion then from lion to mountain lion to mavericks then to yoshomite. I can't remmeber buying an OS for my mac mini since I brought it in 2010 and it's fully up-to-date.

On Thursday, 30 April 2015 08:15:38 UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2015 22:52, Simon Brown wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

No, free even for upgrades, unlike with Win until just recently.

Their equivalent of Office is free too.


No..

Yes.

its included in the price of the hardware.

Not really.
At the weekend I installed the latest version yosmite (free) on my Mac mini
I brought new in 2010. Before that I'd installed mavericks (free)
I instaleld phots for free last night, photos didn;t exist when the hardware was made, although prhaps that's just a name change.


Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too old and
that they want you to buy new hardware,
or keep yuor old hardware.

then you find the upgrade wont
install.
This happens even when the hardware is actually quite capable of running
the upgrade as can be seen on youtube where people have hacked the
upgrade to run on hardware to old to run it.

yes but you can run into other problems so those that want an easy life
will use recommened OS's for the hardware. In most cases it's a waste of time running the latest software on out fo date machine whether it's mac or PC.
Can you think of any advantages to running XP on a new laptop ?
MS don't support it.




You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*,
Yep, how many differnt versions for teh same computer ?
MS disable certain aspects of the cheaper software installs, because they don't want all their customers getting the full value of their product.

MS disable some aspects of the software the day you purchase it, Apple
let you use it on any sytem it will install on. Apple will disable things after 5,6, or 7 years.


Apple gets
*hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't develop much hardware
themselves.)

apart from some chips, such as the specail controller for the retina displays.
and a lopt of the ipad/iphone chips.

On Thursday, 30 April 2015 11:47:08 UTC+1, Bod wrote:
On 30/04/2015 11:21, Simon Brown wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2015 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2015 12:22, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Time has come to replace the tower PC with a laptop, so I'm after some
advice from the learned people here, since I'm a computer numpty.

I'm looking for something around 16". I don't play games (only
solitaire) I don't watch films or download music. Don't want a
touchscreen, much prefer keyboard/mouse.

I use Word & Excel frequently, sometime quite big documents. I surf
the
net often & use e-mail a lot. We have 4G WiFi at home, probably won't
ever take it out, but will use upstairs in the office, on the deck &
downstairs in the lounge.

Reluctant to change from MS Windows simply because I know how to
use it.

Any advice on processor type, memory, make, supplier much appreciated.


Another probably daft question.

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

Could you elaborate please :-)

You can't run most of the software that will run on a laptop.

They are basically web browsing machines, very limited.

and under powered, I think most tablets are better, especailly ipads and even a phone.

On 30/04/2015 09:58, newshound wrote:
On 30/04/2015 09:09, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 29/04/2015 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

Could you elaborate please :-)



I'd agree with that. Wife has one and she prefers it to a full laptop,
for basic shopping/browsing etc. But it is based on saving everything to
the cloud, convenient in some ways but tends to tie you into the Google
ecosystem / file formats etc. There *are* work-arounds, but if you are
used to Windows / Office it is more stuff to learn. They are light,
quick to fire up (but her battery is now very limited so needs to be on
mains most of the time) and they are really most useful when you have a
wifi connection.

There are places where they could be excellent (schools in Africa, say)
but for my money they are not as convenient as a cheap android tablet
(plus keyboard, if you want one). They might still have a price edge
over a full laptop but TBH quite decent small laptops without optical
drives are no longer that expensive.

Since TMH uses Excel, it might be interesting to see if the Google
spreadsheet works for him.

http://www.gcflearnfree.org/googlespreadsheets/8.2

If so, the Chromebook (or an Android tablet) could be a no brainer

On 30/04/2015 12:42, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 30 April 2015 08:15:38 UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2015 22:52, Simon Brown wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

No, free even for upgrades, unlike with Win until just recently.

Their equivalent of Office is free too.


No..

Yes.

its included in the price of the hardware.

Not really. At the weekend I installed the latest version yosmite
(free) on my Mac mini I brought new in 2010. Before that I'd
installed mavericks (free) I instaleld phots for free last night,
photos didn;t exist when the hardware was made, although prhaps
that's just a name change.

Where do you think Apple used to get their money from before they
started creaming off the app store?



Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too old
and that they want you to buy new hardware,
or keep yuor old hardware.

then you find the upgrade wont install. This happens even when the
hardware is actually quite capable of running the upgrade as can be
seen on youtube where people have hacked the upgrade to run on
hardware to old to run it.

yes but you can run into other problems so those that want an easy
life will use recommened OS's for the hardware. In most cases it's a
waste of time running the latest software on out fo date machine
whether it's mac or PC. Can you think of any advantages to running XP
on a new laptop ? MS don't support it.

What are you on about?
That is the exact opposite of what anyone would want to do.

You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*,
Yep, how many differnt versions for teh same computer ? MS disable
certain aspects of the cheaper software installs, because they don't
want all their customers getting the full value of their product.

They sell different versions, you can buy whichever one you want.


MS disable some aspects of the software the day you purchase it,

Which ones?

Apple let you use it on any sytem it will install on. Apple will
disable things after 5,6, or 7 years.

They disable it from installing, you can noble it and install it and it
will work perfectly well but then Apple doesn't get a hardware sale.



Apple gets *hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't develop
much hardware themselves.)

apart from some chips, such as the specail controller for the retina
displays. and a lopt of the ipad/iphone chips.

They don't develop hardware, they sub contract it out.
They didn't design the original Intel macs at all, Intel did it.

On 30/04/2015 18:35, stuart noble wrote:
On 30/04/2015 09:58, newshound wrote:
On 30/04/2015 09:09, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 29/04/2015 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

Could you elaborate please :-)



I'd agree with that. Wife has one and she prefers it to a full laptop,
for basic shopping/browsing etc. But it is based on saving everything to
the cloud, convenient in some ways but tends to tie you into the Google
ecosystem / file formats etc. There *are* work-arounds, but if you are
used to Windows / Office it is more stuff to learn. They are light,
quick to fire up (but her battery is now very limited so needs to be on
mains most of the time) and they are really most useful when you have a
wifi connection.

There are places where they could be excellent (schools in Africa, say)
but for my money they are not as convenient as a cheap android tablet
(plus keyboard, if you want one). They might still have a price edge
over a full laptop but TBH quite decent small laptops without optical
drives are no longer that expensive.

Since TMH uses Excel, it might be interesting to see if the Google
spreadsheet works for him.

http://www.gcflearnfree.org/googlespreadsheets/8.2

If so, the Chromebook (or an Android tablet) could be a no brainer


It seems easier than Excel :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 30/04/2015 11:47, Bod wrote:
On 30/04/2015 11:21, Simon Brown wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 29/04/2015 22:16, Simon Brown wrote:


"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2015 12:22, The Medway Handyman wrote:
Time has come to replace the tower PC with a laptop, so I'm after
some
advice from the learned people here, since I'm a computer numpty.

I'm looking for something around 16". I don't play games (only
solitaire) I don't watch films or download music. Don't want a
touchscreen, much prefer keyboard/mouse.

I use Word & Excel frequently, sometime quite big documents. I surf
the
net often & use e-mail a lot. We have 4G WiFi at home, probably
won't
ever take it out, but will use upstairs in the office, on the deck &
downstairs in the lounge.

Reluctant to change from MS Windows simply because I know how to
use it.

Any advice on processor type, memory, make, supplier much
appreciated.


Another probably daft question.

What do the panel think of Chromebooks?

Much more limited than a laptop.

Could you elaborate please :-)

You can't run most of the software that will run on a laptop.

They are basically web browsing machines, very limited.

They run word processing & spreadsheets, that's all I use.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 30/04/2015 12:42, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 30 April 2015 08:15:38 UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2015 22:52, Simon Brown wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

No, free even for upgrades, unlike with Win until just recently.

Their equivalent of Office is free too.


No..

Yes.

its included in the price of the hardware.

Not really. At the weekend I installed the latest version yosmite
(free) on my Mac mini I brought new in 2010. Before that I'd
installed mavericks (free) I instaleld phots for free last night,
photos didn;t exist when the hardware was made, although prhaps
that's just a name change.

Where do you think Apple used to get their money from before they started
creaming off the app store?



Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too old
and that they want you to buy new hardware,
or keep yuor old hardware.

then you find the upgrade wont install. This happens even when the
hardware is actually quite capable of running the upgrade as can be
seen on youtube where people have hacked the upgrade to run on
hardware to old to run it.

yes but you can run into other problems so those that want an easy
life will use recommened OS's for the hardware. In most cases it's a
waste of time running the latest software on out fo date machine
whether it's mac or PC. Can you think of any advantages to running XP
on a new laptop ? MS don't support it.

What are you on about?
That is the exact opposite of what anyone would want to do.

You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*,
Yep, how many differnt versions for teh same computer ? MS disable
certain aspects of the cheaper software installs, because they don't
want all their customers getting the full value of their product.

They sell different versions, you can buy whichever one you want.


MS disable some aspects of the software the day you purchase it,

Which ones?

Apple let you use it on any sytem it will install on. Apple will
disable things after 5,6, or 7 years.

They disable it from installing, you can noble it and install it and it
will work perfectly well but then Apple doesn't get a hardware sale.



Apple gets *hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't develop
much hardware themselves.)

apart from some chips, such as the specail controller for the retina
displays. and a lopt of the ipad/iphone chips.

They don't develop hardware, they sub contract it out.

That is just plain wrong. That isn't what happened with
all of the iphone, ipad, watch, ipod or the latest Macs.

They didn't design the original Intel macs at all, Intel did it.

That mangles the real story.

In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 30/04/2015 11:47, Bod wrote:

Chromebook

They are basically web browsing machines, very limited.

They run word processing & spreadsheets, that's all I use.

I tend to agree with Dave. Either a netbook or Chromebook would be an
excellent introduction to the world of 'not desktops' rather than
initially shelling out a lot of dosh for a super fast laptop, most
features of which will be neither used nor appreciated.

I have said many times I love my little netbook, which is perfect for my
uses - web, mail, docts, spreadsheets etc. My son is a serious gamer
with a fast desktop, but he also has a Chromebook, bought by my Mother.
It is Tesco or Argos via eBay, probably a customer return, with full
warranty etc. Not much more than a hundred pounds, and does exactly
what it is designed to do. Turns on, boots quickly, connects to wi fi
etc. Son plays games and watches films on it, in bed. He is very happy
with it.
--
Graeme

On 01/05/2015 13:15, News wrote:
In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 30/04/2015 11:47, Bod wrote:

Chromebook

They are basically web browsing machines, very limited.

They run word processing & spreadsheets, that's all I use.

I tend to agree with Dave. Either a netbook or Chromebook would be an
excellent introduction to the world of 'not desktops' rather than
initially shelling out a lot of dosh for a super fast laptop, most
features of which will be neither used nor appreciated.

I have said many times I love my little netbook, which is perfect for my
uses - web, mail, docts, spreadsheets etc. My son is a serious gamer
with a fast desktop, but he also has a Chromebook, bought by my Mother.
It is Tesco or Argos via eBay, probably a customer return, with full
warranty etc. Not much more than a hundred pounds, and does exactly
what it is designed to do. Turns on, boots quickly, connects to wi fi
etc. Son plays games and watches films on it, in bed. He is very happy
with it.

Fair enough, but they are not for me. They are more of a niche market.

On Thursday, 30 April 2015 19:24:29 UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:
On 30/04/2015 12:42, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 30 April 2015 08:15:38 UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2015 22:52, Simon Brown wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

No, free even for upgrades, unlike with Win until just recently.

Their equivalent of Office is free too.


No..

Yes.

its included in the price of the hardware.

Not really. At the weekend I installed the latest version yosmite
(free) on my Mac mini I brought new in 2010. Before that I'd
installed mavericks (free) I instaleld phots for free last night,
photos didn;t exist when the hardware was made, although prhaps
that's just a name change.

Where do you think Apple used to get their money from before they
started creaming off the app store?

My point was that I doubt much of the money I paid for the mac mini in 2010 went into the delevopment of yosmite. Before snow leaopard most of the OS's you had to buy unless you got them free with the hardware. So NOW the money they cream off the i devices and software/.AP store is also used.


Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too old
and that they want you to buy new hardware,
or keep yuor old hardware.

then you find the upgrade wont install. This happens even when the
hardware is actually quite capable of running the upgrade as can be
seen on youtube where people have hacked the upgrade to run on
hardware to old to run it.

yes but you can run into other problems so those that want an easy
life will use recommened OS's for the hardware. In most cases it's a
waste of time running the latest software on out fo date machine
whether it's mac or PC. Can you think of any advantages to running XP
on a new laptop ? MS don't support it.

What are you on about?
That is the exact opposite of what anyone would want to do.

So why are so many still running XP ? 25% ?
I wouldn't and can't run yosmite on a Mac plus.
So little point in doing so.
The only time I came across this so called problem was with my G4.
It;d worlked on 9.02 right up to 10.4 but couldn't install 10.5
because Apple considered that the 500MHz was too slow and requirement
was for a 867MHz processor. But using the advice gioven on line it could be installed but not recommented, but as I had a dual core 500MHz I installed it.
Seems to work OK but a friend that had a 867MHz tower noticed a bit of a slow donw when he did his. I can't see much point in installing a new OS that slows things down.
I admit that when I fist installed OS X 10.01 it was pig slow far slower than OS9. I stayed at 0s9 until at least 10.2 came out.


You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*,
Yep, how many differnt versions for teh same computer ? MS disable
certain aspects of the cheaper software installs, because they don't
want all their customers getting the full value of their product.

They sell different versions, you can buy whichever one you want.

why have differnt versions that's the point I can undertand 2 versions but 7 !
They'll copy Apple soon anyway and just have 2 versions.
They have already done so by calling it windows 10 , 9 would have been seen as lower than 10 or Apples OS X. 11 would have been suspicious.
Why they missed windows 9 well you take a guess at that.


MS disable some aspects of the software the day you purchase it,

Which ones?

Then why have difernt versions if nothing is missing ?

Apple let you use it on any sytem it will install on. Apple will
disable things after 5,6, or 7 years.

They disable it from installing, you can noble it and install it and it
will work perfectly well but then Apple doesn't get a hardware sale.

Old Apple copmputers tend to work far longer than others do, which is one of teh reason Aplpe products keep thier valuse far more than PCs do especially labtops.



Apple gets *hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't develop
much hardware themselves.)

apart from some chips, such as the specail controller for the retina
displays. and a lopt of the ipad/iphone chips.

They don't develop hardware, they sub contract it out.

They do the A chips for the ipad and iphone they develop the chip
and get intel or someone to make it.

They didn't design the original Intel macs at all, Intel did it.

Yes they did Intel designed the chips. The foirst imacs had PPC chips
intel didn't design those macs and niether did IBM.

On 01/05/2015 17:01, whisky-dave wrote:

8

its included in the price of the hardware.

Not really. At the weekend I installed the latest version
yosmite (free) on my Mac mini I brought new in 2010. Before that
I'd installed mavericks (free) I instaleld phots for free last
night, photos didn;t exist when the hardware was made, although
prhaps that's just a name change.

Where do you think Apple used to get their money from before they
started creaming off the app store?

My point was that I doubt much of the money I paid for the mac mini
in 2010 went into the delevopment of yosmite. Before snow leaopard
most of the OS's you had to buy unless you got them free with the
hardware. So NOW the money they cream off the i devices and
software/.AP store is also used.


Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too
old and that they want you to buy new hardware,
or keep yuor old hardware.

then you find the upgrade wont install. This happens even when
the hardware is actually quite capable of running the upgrade
as can be seen on youtube where people have hacked the upgrade
to run on hardware to old to run it.

yes but you can run into other problems so those that want an
easy life will use recommened OS's for the hardware. In most
cases it's a waste of time running the latest software on out fo
date machine whether it's mac or PC. Can you think of any
advantages to running XP on a new laptop ? MS don't support it.

What are you on about? That is the exact opposite of what anyone
would want to do.

So why are so many still running XP ? 25% ? I wouldn't and can't run
yosmite on a Mac plus. So little point in doing so. The only time I
came across this so called problem was with my G4. It;d worlked on
9.02 right up to 10.4 but couldn't install 10.5 because Apple
considered that the 500MHz was too slow and requirement was for a
867MHz processor. But using the advice gioven on line it could be
installed but not recommented, but as I had a dual core 500MHz I
installed it. Seems to work OK but a friend that had a 867MHz tower
noticed a bit of a slow donw when he did his. I can't see much point
in installing a new OS that slows things down. I admit that when I
fist installed OS X 10.01 it was pig slow far slower than OS9. I
stayed at 0s9 until at least 10.2 came out.

You will see the point when they do any of the following..

stop releasing security fixes
release apps that use stuff in the new OS but not in yours
...




You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*,
Yep, how many differnt versions for teh same computer ? MS
disable certain aspects of the cheaper software installs, because
they don't want all their customers getting the full value of
their product.

They sell different versions, you can buy whichever one you want.

why have differnt versions that's the point I can undertand 2
versions but 7 ! They'll copy Apple soon anyway and just have 2
versions. They have already done so by calling it windows 10 , 9
would have been seen as lower than 10 or Apples OS X. 11 would have
been suspicious. Why they missed windows 9 well you take a guess at
that.


MS disable some aspects of the software the day you purchase it,

Which ones?

Then why have difernt versions if nothing is missing ?

You buy an OS and M$ do not disable anything.
You know what you are buying.


Apple let you use it on any sytem it will install on. Apple
will disable things after 5,6, or 7 years.

They disable it from installing, you can noble it and install it
and it will work perfectly well but then Apple doesn't get a
hardware sale.

Old Apple copmputers tend to work far longer than others do, which is
one of teh reason Aplpe products keep thier valuse far more than PCs
do especially labtops.


Rubbish.
Old apple computers cost so much to replace people don't throw them away
like they do with windows PCs.
You can get a perfectly good windows laptop for £150 or less so people
just treat them as disposable items.



Apple gets *hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't
develop much hardware themselves.)

apart from some chips, such as the specail controller for the
retina displays. and a lopt of the ipad/iphone chips.

They don't develop hardware, they sub contract it out.

They do the A chips for the ipad and iphone they develop the chip and
get intel or someone to make it.

They didn't design the original Intel macs at all, Intel did it.

Yes they did Intel designed the chips. The foirst imacs had PPC
chips intel didn't design those macs and niether did IBM.


Read what I said instead of making stuff up.

On 01/05/2015 13:15, News wrote:
In message , The Medway Handyman
writes
On 30/04/2015 11:47, Bod wrote:

Chromebook

They are basically web browsing machines, very limited.

They run word processing & spreadsheets, that's all I use.

I tend to agree with Dave. Either a netbook or Chromebook would be an
excellent introduction to the world of 'not desktops' rather than
initially shelling out a lot of dosh for a super fast laptop, most
features of which will be neither used nor appreciated.

I have said many times I love my little netbook, which is perfect for my
uses - web, mail, docts, spreadsheets etc. My son is a serious gamer
with a fast desktop, but he also has a Chromebook, bought by my Mother.
It is Tesco or Argos via eBay, probably a customer return, with full
warranty etc. Not much more than a hundred pounds, and does exactly
what it is designed to do. Turns on, boots quickly, connects to wi fi
etc. Son plays games and watches films on it, in bed. He is very happy
with it.

It does everything the vast majority of users need. Why they buy Windows
machines or Macs is beyond me.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 30 April 2015 19:24:29 UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:
On 30/04/2015 12:42, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 30 April 2015 08:15:38 UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:
On 29/04/2015 22:52, Simon Brown wrote:


"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 29/04/2015 22:21, Simon Brown wrote:


Than you can slowly ignore the Windows.....

buying a Mac you could aviod both windows and linux :-)


But I would still have to pay for the OS.

No, that comes free with a Mac.

Free in the same way windows is free with windows PCs?

No, free even for upgrades, unlike with Win until just recently.

Their equivalent of Office is free too.


No..

Yes.

its included in the price of the hardware.

Not really. At the weekend I installed the latest version yosmite
(free) on my Mac mini I brought new in 2010. Before that I'd
installed mavericks (free) I instaleld phots for free last night,
photos didn;t exist when the hardware was made, although prhaps
that's just a name change.

Where do you think Apple used to get their money from before they
started creaming off the app store?

My point was that I doubt much of the money I paid for the mac mini in
2010 went into the delevopment of yosmite. Before snow leaopard most of
the OS's you had to buy unless you got them free with the hardware. So NOW
the money they cream off the i devices and software/.AP store is also
used.


Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too old
and that they want you to buy new hardware,
or keep yuor old hardware.

then you find the upgrade wont install. This happens even when the
hardware is actually quite capable of running the upgrade as can be
seen on youtube where people have hacked the upgrade to run on
hardware to old to run it.

yes but you can run into other problems so those that want an easy
life will use recommened OS's for the hardware. In most cases it's a
waste of time running the latest software on out fo date machine
whether it's mac or PC. Can you think of any advantages to running XP
on a new laptop ? MS don't support it.

What are you on about?
That is the exact opposite of what anyone would want to do.

So why are so many still running XP ? 25% ?
I wouldn't and can't run yosmite on a Mac plus.
So little point in doing so.
The only time I came across this so called problem was with my G4.
It;d worlked on 9.02 right up to 10.4 but couldn't install 10.5
because Apple considered that the 500MHz was too slow and requirement
was for a 867MHz processor. But using the advice gioven on line it could
be installed but not recommented, but as I had a dual core 500MHz I
installed it.
Seems to work OK but a friend that had a 867MHz tower noticed a bit of a
slow donw when he did his. I can't see much point in installing a new OS
that slows things down.
I admit that when I fist installed OS X 10.01 it was pig slow far slower
than OS9. I stayed at 0s9 until at least 10.2 came out.


You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*,
Yep, how many differnt versions for teh same computer ? MS disable
certain aspects of the cheaper software installs, because they don't
want all their customers getting the full value of their product.

They sell different versions, you can buy whichever one you want.

why have differnt versions that's the point I can undertand 2 versions but
7 !
They'll copy Apple soon anyway and just have 2 versions.
They have already done so by calling it windows 10 , 9 would have been
seen as lower than 10 or Apples OS X. 11 would have been suspicious.
Why they missed windows 9 well you take a guess at that.


MS disable some aspects of the software the day you purchase it,

Which ones?

Then why have difernt versions if nothing is missing ?

Apple let you use it on any sytem it will install on. Apple will
disable things after 5,6, or 7 years.

They disable it from installing, you can noble it and install it and it
will work perfectly well but then Apple doesn't get a hardware sale.

Old Apple copmputers tend to work far longer than others do, which is one
of teh reason Aplpe products keep thier valuse far more than PCs do
especially labtops.



Apple gets *hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't develop
much hardware themselves.)

apart from some chips, such as the specail controller for the retina
displays. and a lopt of the ipad/iphone chips.

They don't develop hardware, they sub contract it out.

They do the A chips for the ipad and iphone they develop the chip
and get intel or someone to make it.

Samsung actually.

They didn't design the original Intel macs at all, Intel did it.

Yes they did Intel designed the chips. The foirst imacs had PPC chips
intel didn't design those macs and niether did IBM.

On 01/05/2015 20:15, stuart noble wrote:

It does everything the vast majority of users need. Why they buy Windows
machines or Macs is beyond me.


Maybe because windows laptops are cheaper and don't need an internet
connection.

In article om,
Dennis@home wrote:
On 01/05/2015 20:15, stuart noble wrote:

It does everything the vast majority of users need. Why they buy Windows
machines or Macs is beyond me.


Maybe because windows laptops are cheaper and don't need an internet
connection.

They do if they need to connect to the outside world.

--
From KT24 in Surrey

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 01/05/2015 21:45, Dennis@home wrote:
On 01/05/2015 20:15, stuart noble wrote:

It does everything the vast majority of users need. Why they buy Windows
machines or Macs is beyond me.


Maybe because windows laptops are cheaper and don't need an internet
connection.

??????

Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low & you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 01/05/2015 22:18, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 01/05/2015 21:45, Dennis@home wrote:
On 01/05/2015 20:15, stuart noble wrote:

It does everything the vast majority of users need. Why they buy Windows
machines or Macs is beyond me.


Maybe because windows laptops are cheaper and don't need an internet
connection.

??????

Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low & you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

?? No you don't. I suggest you look at Libre Office.

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 01/05/2015 17:01, whisky-dave wrote:

8

its included in the price of the hardware.

Not really. At the weekend I installed the latest version
yosmite (free) on my Mac mini I brought new in 2010. Before that
I'd installed mavericks (free) I instaleld phots for free last
night, photos didn;t exist when the hardware was made, although
prhaps that's just a name change.

Where do you think Apple used to get their money from before they
started creaming off the app store?

My point was that I doubt much of the money I paid for the mac mini
in 2010 went into the delevopment of yosmite. Before snow leaopard
most of the OS's you had to buy unless you got them free with the
hardware. So NOW the money they cream off the i devices and
software/.AP store is also used.


Upgrades are only free until Apple decide your hardware is too
old and that they want you to buy new hardware,
or keep yuor old hardware.

then you find the upgrade wont install. This happens even when
the hardware is actually quite capable of running the upgrade
as can be seen on youtube where people have hacked the upgrade
to run on hardware to old to run it.

yes but you can run into other problems so those that want an
easy life will use recommened OS's for the hardware. In most
cases it's a waste of time running the latest software on out fo
date machine whether it's mac or PC. Can you think of any
advantages to running XP on a new laptop ? MS don't support it.

What are you on about? That is the exact opposite of what anyone
would want to do.

So why are so many still running XP ? 25% ? I wouldn't and can't run
yosmite on a Mac plus. So little point in doing so. The only time I
came across this so called problem was with my G4. It;d worlked on
9.02 right up to 10.4 but couldn't install 10.5 because Apple
considered that the 500MHz was too slow and requirement was for a
867MHz processor. But using the advice gioven on line it could be
installed but not recommented, but as I had a dual core 500MHz I
installed it. Seems to work OK but a friend that had a 867MHz tower
noticed a bit of a slow donw when he did his. I can't see much point
in installing a new OS that slows things down. I admit that when I
fist installed OS X 10.01 it was pig slow far slower than OS9. I
stayed at 0s9 until at least 10.2 came out.

You will see the point when they do any of the following..

stop releasing security fixes

Doesn’t happen with Apple.

release apps that use stuff in the new OS but not in yours

You have to remember Microsoft develops and sells *software*,
Yep, how many differnt versions for teh same computer ? MS
disable certain aspects of the cheaper software installs, because
they don't want all their customers getting the full value of
their product.

They sell different versions, you can buy whichever one you want.

why have differnt versions that's the point I can undertand 2
versions but 7 ! They'll copy Apple soon anyway and just have 2
versions. They have already done so by calling it windows 10 , 9
would have been seen as lower than 10 or Apples OS X. 11 would have
been suspicious. Why they missed windows 9 well you take a guess at
that.


MS disable some aspects of the software the day you purchase it,

Which ones?

Then why have difernt versions if nothing is missing ?

You buy an OS and M$ do not disable anything.
You know what you are buying.


Apple let you use it on any sytem it will install on. Apple
will disable things after 5,6, or 7 years.

They disable it from installing, you can noble it and install it
and it will work perfectly well but then Apple doesn't get a
hardware sale.

Old Apple copmputers tend to work far longer than others do, which is
one of teh reason Aplpe products keep thier valuse far more than PCs
do especially labtops.


Rubbish.
Old apple computers cost so much to replace people don't throw them away
like they do with windows PCs.
You can get a perfectly good windows laptop for £150 or less so people
just treat them as disposable items.



Apple gets *hardware* developed and sells it. (They don't
develop much hardware themselves.)

apart from some chips, such as the specail controller for the
retina displays. and a lopt of the ipad/iphone chips.

They don't develop hardware, they sub contract it out.

They do the A chips for the ipad and iphone they develop the chip and
get intel or someone to make it.

They didn't design the original Intel macs at all, Intel did it.

Yes they did Intel designed the chips. The foirst imacs had PPC
chips intel didn't design those macs and niether did IBM.


Read what I said instead of making stuff up.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article om,
Dennis@home wrote:
On 01/05/2015 20:15, stuart noble wrote:

It does everything the vast majority of users need. Why they buy
Windows
machines or Macs is beyond me.


Maybe because windows laptops are cheaper and don't need an internet
connection.

They do if they need to connect to the outside world.

But they can be used independently of the internet
connection and use it only when they need to connect
to the outside world. Chromebooks generally can't.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 01/05/2015 21:45, Dennis@home wrote:
On 01/05/2015 20:15, stuart noble wrote:

It does everything the vast majority of users need. Why they buy Windows
machines or Macs is beyond me.


Maybe because windows laptops are cheaper and don't need an internet
connection.

??????

Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much lower
price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low

But quite adequate for what you want to do.

& you have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

Not if you are going to use the equivalent with your chromebook,
you can do that for free on you windows laptop too.

The main downside for you with a chromebook is that they mostly
only do the word and excel type stuff when connected to the internet.

With a windows laptop you don’t have to be connected
to the internet to be able to try some possibilities on you
spreadsheet when discussing your quote with a client etc.

On 01/05/15 23:43, Fredxxx wrote:

Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low & you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

?? No you don't. I suggest you look at Libre Office.

+1 I have not used Word, Excel or PP for at least 5 years - just
libreoffice - and that includes dealing and resending work's MS office
documents.

On 02/05/2015 09:24, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/05/15 23:43, Fredxxx wrote:

Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low & you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

?? No you don't. I suggest you look at Libre Office.

+1 I have not used Word, Excel or PP for at least 5 years - just
libreoffice - and that includes dealing and resending work's MS office
documents.

If your internet goes down while using a Chromebook, the Chromebook
becomes an illuminated ornament.

On 02/05/15 09:32, Bod wrote:
On 02/05/2015 09:24, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/05/15 23:43, Fredxxx wrote:

Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low &
you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

?? No you don't. I suggest you look at Libre Office.

+1 I have not used Word, Excel or PP for at least 5 years - just
libreoffice - and that includes dealing and resending work's MS office
documents.

If your internet goes down while using a Chromebook, the Chromebook
becomes an illuminated ornament.

That's not totally true - it does handle some offline work.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/24539...o-offline.html

On 02/05/2015 09:46, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/05/15 09:32, Bod wrote:
On 02/05/2015 09:24, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/05/15 23:43, Fredxxx wrote:

Not so. One of the reasons I'm considering Chrome Book is the much
lower price. You can buy cheap windows laptops but the spec is low &
you
have to pay extra for word, excel etc.

?? No you don't. I suggest you look at Libre Office.

+1 I have not used Word, Excel or PP for at least 5 years - just
libreoffice - and that includes dealing and resending work's MS office
documents.

If your internet goes down while using a Chromebook, the Chromebook
becomes an illuminated ornament.

That's not totally true - it does handle some offline work.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/24539...o-offline.html

Some? Like what?

On 01/05/15 21:49, charles wrote:
In article om,
Dennis@home wrote:
On 01/05/2015 20:15, stuart noble wrote:

It does everything the vast majority of users need. Why they buy Windows
machines or Macs is beyond me.


Maybe because windows laptops are cheaper and don't need an internet
connection.

They do if they need to connect to the outside world.

...and windows laptops arent cheaper..


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll