On Thursday, 26 March 2015 11:07:18 UTC, snot wrote:
On 24/03/2015 17:31, wrote:

But and this is a big BUT - most H&S depts wont allow mains leads to be
modified by cutting a plug off and fitting another.

True it's not allowed I'm not even allowed to change the fuse if I need to open the plug up. Once opensd it has to be PAT tested by someone proficient whatever they decide what that means.

No mods here just clip it in and do up the anti-tamper screw --- if
you're allowed to use tools that is. Modifications to production
equipment is forbidden on pain of a disciplinary hearing at my current
place of "work".

Here we have the standard IEC mains leads which get tested every year at a cost of about £1.49 each. I have about 2-3000 pieces of equipment in my lab that gets tested every year the testers quite like my lab.

On 26/03/15 12:55, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 11:07:18 UTC, snot wrote:
On 24/03/2015 17:31, wrote:

But and this is a big BUT - most H&S depts wont allow mains leads to be
modified by cutting a plug off and fitting another.

True it's not allowed I'm not even allowed to change the fuse if I need to open the plug up. Once opensd it has to be PAT tested by someone proficient whatever they decide what that means.

No mods here just clip it in and do up the anti-tamper screw --- if
you're allowed to use tools that is. Modifications to production
equipment is forbidden on pain of a disciplinary hearing at my current
place of "work".

Here we have the standard IEC mains leads which get tested every year at a cost of about £1.49 each.

I think you're being a bit overcharged there... I'd try for a volume
discount. Base don having done a bit of PAT testing, assuming the leads
were all made available to him in one area and it's not a case of
crawling under desks for every one, 50p would be more like it...

On Thursday, 26 March 2015 12:59:21 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
On 26/03/15 12:55, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 11:07:18 UTC, snot wrote:
On 24/03/2015 17:31, wrote:

But and this is a big BUT - most H&S depts wont allow mains leads to be
modified by cutting a plug off and fitting another.

True it's not allowed I'm not even allowed to change the fuse if I need to open the plug up. Once opensd it has to be PAT tested by someone proficient whatever they decide what that means.

No mods here just clip it in and do up the anti-tamper screw --- if
you're allowed to use tools that is. Modifications to production
equipment is forbidden on pain of a disciplinary hearing at my current
place of "work".

Here we have the standard IEC mains leads which get tested every year at a cost of about £1.49 each.

I think you're being a bit overcharged there... I'd try for a volume
discount. Base don having done a bit of PAT testing, assuming the leads
were all made available to him in one area and it's not a case of
crawling under desks for every one, 50p would be more like it...

I assume those in charge of this have read the warnings about not employing the cheap testers as they don't do a proper job.
Nothing like scare tactics to get mamangment to waste money.

In message ,
whisky-dave writes
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 14:32:11 UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 24/03/2015 12:43, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 09:20:21 UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 24/03/2015 08:23, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 8:22:50 AM UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 7:58:26 AM UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

PAT is a nickname - "portable" doesn't appear in the real name.
The testing applies to all appliances, except the wiring installation
and any lighting which is part of the wiring installation, and also
excludes anything else which has its own testing regime
defined in other
legislation (such as a passenger lift).

I was once checking an office for PAT validity dates, and noticed
an untested plug-in air freshener. We were a little unsure
exactly what could or should have been done with it.

relabel it as an air polluter? New goods don't need PAT testing AIUI.

but if PAT testing is done in bulk every so often, better to test
now so it won't exceed its test interval later.


NT


By why PAT anyway? You don't need to do it at all.
You should train the users to give it a visual check before use if there
is any chance of damage being dangerous leaving it every year or two is
going to be against H&S laws. I get the idea that PAT is just an excuse
for inadequate training.

It's a good way of passing along the responsibility of who to blame
should something go wrong. We get everything tested every year.



I doubt if you will get away with passing on the problem.

It does by those instigating it otherwise they wouldn;t have bothered.
There is a little contention here as what happens if someone does get
killed and the equipment had passed it's PAT test, no one seems to be
sure what differnce a PAT test will make.

Same as an MOT pass I suppose - it was all right on the day guv
--
bert

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 March 2015 19:14:43 UTC, ARW wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 25/03/15 18:45, ARW wrote:

Indeed. And it would probably be safer and easier to put 1000V down
the
live using the plug rather than the bare wires.

Of course I only use the 250V setting on the test case when I have a
new
apprentice holding the cables at the other end

Do you still charge a 100m drum upto 1000V to educate him about
capacitance?


Sod capacitance he still needs educating about walls. We were walking
down a
hospital corridor today and there was a corridor off to the left. He
walked
straight into the wall where the two corridors met. How the **** can you
manage do that?

was he on the phone ?


No. And when we took the **** out of him later by saying things such as
"carefull with that wall" he totally denied walking into the wall.

--
Adam

On 26/03/2015 12:55, whisky-dave wrote:


Here we have the standard IEC mains leads which get tested every year
at a cost of about £1.49 each. I have about 2-3000 pieces of
equipment in my lab that gets tested every year the testers quite
like my lab.


How many fail the test?

On 24/03/2015 10:10, snot wrote:
On 23/03/2015 19:58, ARW wrote:
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report.

However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg



The real issue is the missing fuse.

Does it need a fuse?

Assuming a reputable manufacturer, - it's original manufacturer supplied
which meet safety regulations for the EU.
--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/03/2015 12:55, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 11:07:18 UTC, snot wrote:
On 24/03/2015 17:31, wrote:

True it's not allowed I'm not even allowed to change the fuse if I need to open the plug up. Once opensd it has to be PAT tested by someone proficient whatever they decide what that means.

It's the same at my place of work but I'm trusted to work on equipment
without covers that contains high voltage, high RF power etc.


Here we have the standard IEC mains leads which get tested every year at a cost of about £1.49 each. I have about 2-3000 pieces of equipment in my lab that gets tested every year the testers quite like my lab.


The testers from an external company come in around once per year. They
are so exited about the drudgery of testing so much equipment. They show
their emotions with their couldn't care less attitude and take great
delight in putting big red "DANGEROUS - DO NOT USE" stickers on
equipment solely because the the serial number is not on their list.
The engineers know this, rip of these stickers and continue using the
equipment. This may somewhat defeat to idea of putting the same "do not
use" sticker on equipment that may have been tested but has failed a
safety test.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/03/15 22:51, alan_m wrote:
On 26/03/2015 12:55, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 11:07:18 UTC, snot wrote:
On 24/03/2015 17:31, wrote:

True it's not allowed I'm not even allowed to change the fuse if I
need to open the plug up. Once opensd it has to be PAT tested by
someone proficient whatever they decide what that means.

It's the same at my place of work but I'm trusted to work on equipment
without covers that contains high voltage, high RF power etc.


Here we have the standard IEC mains leads which get tested every year
at a cost of about £1.49 each. I have about 2-3000 pieces of equipment
in my lab that gets tested every year the testers quite like my lab.


The testers from an external company come in around once per year. They
are so exited about the drudgery of testing so much equipment. They show
their emotions with their couldn't care less attitude and take great
delight in putting big red "DANGEROUS - DO NOT USE" stickers on
equipment solely because the the serial number is not on their list.
The engineers know this, rip of these stickers and continue using the
equipment. This may somewhat defeat to idea of putting the same "do not
use" sticker on equipment that may have been tested but has failed a
safety test.


Sounds like your company would do better from having a trained and PAT
certified on site chap (who could do other duties too). This way, the
testing can be done on a cyclic basis and fit around access to
equipment. You also would not get this sort of silly ********.

On 27/03/2015 09:27, Tim Watts wrote:
On 26/03/15 22:51, alan_m wrote:
On 26/03/2015 12:55, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 26 March 2015 11:07:18 UTC, snot wrote:
On 24/03/2015 17:31, wrote:

True it's not allowed I'm not even allowed to change the fuse if I
need to open the plug up. Once opensd it has to be PAT tested by
someone proficient whatever they decide what that means.

It's the same at my place of work but I'm trusted to work on equipment
without covers that contains high voltage, high RF power etc.


Here we have the standard IEC mains leads which get tested every year
at a cost of about £1.49 each. I have about 2-3000 pieces of equipment
in my lab that gets tested every year the testers quite like my lab.


The testers from an external company come in around once per year. They
are so exited about the drudgery of testing so much equipment. They show
their emotions with their couldn't care less attitude and take great
delight in putting big red "DANGEROUS - DO NOT USE" stickers on
equipment solely because the the serial number is not on their list.
The engineers know this, rip of these stickers and continue using the
equipment. This may somewhat defeat to idea of putting the same "do not
use" sticker on equipment that may have been tested but has failed a
safety test.


Sounds like your company would do better from having a trained and PAT
certified on site chap (who could do other duties too). This way, the
testing can be done on a cyclic basis and fit around access to
equipment. You also would not get this sort of silly ********.

I was the "competent person" at my last proper job.
That's exactly what I used to do.
First time we had a wander about to test stuff - oh boy did we find some
horrors (1). All fixed by the next time it was due because it was my
responsibility to fix the stuff.

(1) missing earths, damaged leads, damaged plugs, hi-pot failures (2)
(2) on old XT PC power supplies. We had to change the Chinese Mylar X
and Y capacitors for proper ones. About 100 power supplies in total. On
some we changed the complete power supply as they would not stand even a
500V test without going "bang!" (3).
(3) and then there was the day that the sparkie miss-wired the standby
generator so that we had 415V applied to a 240V circuit. That took out
50+ pc's, 10 fax machines, loads of wall-warts and cost him his job......



--
Blow my nose to email me

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On 26/03/2015 22:21, alan_m wrote:
On 24/03/2015 10:10, snot wrote:
On 23/03/2015 19:58, ARW wrote:
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report.

However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg



The real issue is the missing fuse.

Does it need a fuse?

Generally yes unless you can demonstrate that the flex has adequate
fault protection from the 32A MCB likely to be at the origin of the
circuit.

Assuming a reputable manufacturer, - it's original manufacturer supplied
which meet safety regulations for the EU.

Many places in the EU will have circuits protected at no more than 16A.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 26 March 2015 20:18:18 UTC, ARW wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 March 2015 19:14:43 UTC, ARW wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 25/03/15 18:45, ARW wrote:

Indeed. And it would probably be safer and easier to put 1000V down
the
live using the plug rather than the bare wires.

Of course I only use the 250V setting on the test case when I have a
new
apprentice holding the cables at the other end

Do you still charge a 100m drum upto 1000V to educate him about
capacitance?


Sod capacitance he still needs educating about walls. We were walking
down a
hospital corridor today and there was a corridor off to the left. He
walked
straight into the wall where the two corridors met. How the **** can you
manage do that?

was he on the phone ?


No. And when we took the **** out of him later by saying things such as
"carefull with that wall" he totally denied walking into the wall.

Maybe his career is more suited to politics then, but which party ?

On 27/03/2015 09:27, Tim Watts wrote:


Sounds like your company would do better from having a trained and PAT
certified on site chap (who could do other duties too).


Flavour of the month/year is to outsource everything (IT/test equipment
calibration/HR/building maintenance/cleaning/catering/security) except
the core business. It makes things a lot easier when the next lot of
redundancies come around.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Friday, 27 March 2015 15:14:50 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 27/03/2015 09:27, Tim Watts wrote:


Sounds like your company would do better from having a trained and PAT
certified on site chap (who could do other duties too).


Flavour of the month/year is to outsource everything

we did that with our PAT tester.


(IT/test equipment
calibration/HR/building maintenance/cleaning/catering/security) except
the core business. It makes things a lot easier when the next lot of
redundancies come around.

but teh big advantage is you can employ more admin staff to look after things they know nothing about, then when things go wrong they can balme the company.
Then get to spend even more money on it.

On 27/03/2015 15:23, whisky-dave wrote:

but teh big advantage is you can employ more admin staff to look after things they know nothing about,

You forget the other advantage of having an outsourced IT service that
seems accountable to no-one.
They can F**k up your work's computer every night with the "Microsoft
security upgrades" etc. and then charge to correct the problem. At one
time they were supplying computers with very large hard disks but then
only allowing a single partition of 20G on which they installed the OS
and all the other software. The overnight upgrade would fill the 20G and
the next morning the computer wouldn't boot for some strange reason.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 27/03/15 17:48, alan_m wrote:
On 27/03/2015 15:23, whisky-dave wrote:

but teh big advantage is you can employ more admin staff to look after
things they know nothing about,

You forget the other advantage of having an outsourced IT service that
seems accountable to no-one.
They can F**k up your work's computer every night with the "Microsoft
security upgrades" etc. and then charge to correct the problem. At one
time they were supplying computers with very large hard disks but then
only allowing a single partition of 20G on which they installed the OS
and all the other software. The overnight upgrade would fill the 20G and
the next morning the computer wouldn't boot for some strange reason.


People never learn...

And I bet the money spent would have paid for several good systems
managers...

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
news:3a74f33e-cfb8-4184-9f31-

No. And when we took the **** out of him later by saying things such as
"carefull with that wall" he totally denied walking into the wall.

Maybe his career is more suited to politics then, but which party ?

One that supports people with no geographical knowledge!

Did a job at Ferrybridge power station last week with him and as we were
pulling into the power station he asked "Are we in S****horpe?"



--
Adam

On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 7:53:07 AM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 26/03/2015 07:39, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Graham.
writes

We used "safeblocks" in the same situation.
basically three crock clips and a lid.

But plus a 'funny red thing' in the bottom right of the lid.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P...ze_3/SR910.JPG

Once upon a time, as I've probably mentioned before, one of the
less practical design engineers was working in the electronics
lab. On enquiring if there were any spare 13 A plugs for his
soldering iron, he was pointed towards the SafeBloc. Some time
later it was noticed that the SafeBloc was still on the bench,
but it no longer had its plug!

Chris


If I had asked if there were any spare plug tops and had been pointed at
a piece of equipment I would have taken the plug off too, especially a
SafeBloc. Have they made the cord grip work properly in the last decade
or two?

I dont remember them having anything resembling a cordgrip


NT

On 29/03/2015 11:31, wrote:
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 7:53:07 AM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 26/03/2015 07:39, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Graham.
writes

We used "safeblocks" in the same situation.
basically three crock clips and a lid.

But plus a 'funny red thing' in the bottom right of the lid.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P...ze_3/SR910.JPG

Once upon a time, as I've probably mentioned before, one of the
less practical design engineers was working in the electronics
lab. On enquiring if there were any spare 13 A plugs for his
soldering iron, he was pointed towards the SafeBloc. Some time
later it was noticed that the SafeBloc was still on the bench,
but it no longer had its plug!

Chris


If I had asked if there were any spare plug tops and had been pointed at
a piece of equipment I would have taken the plug off too, especially a
SafeBloc. Have they made the cord grip work properly in the last decade
or two?

I dont remember them having anything resembling a cordgrip


NT


Not much use for powering a moving bit of kit then.

On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 6:32:11 PM UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:
On 29/03/2015 11:31, wrote:
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 at 7:53:07 AM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 26/03/2015 07:39, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Graham.
writes

We used "safeblocks" in the same situation.
basically three crock clips and a lid.

But plus a 'funny red thing' in the bottom right of the lid.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P...ze_3/SR910.JPG

Once upon a time, as I've probably mentioned before, one of the
less practical design engineers was working in the electronics
lab. On enquiring if there were any spare 13 A plugs for his
soldering iron, he was pointed towards the SafeBloc. Some time
later it was noticed that the SafeBloc was still on the bench,
but it no longer had its plug!

Chris


If I had asked if there were any spare plug tops and had been pointed at
a piece of equipment I would have taken the plug off too, especially a
SafeBloc. Have they made the cord grip work properly in the last decade
or two?

I dont remember them having anything resembling a cordgrip

Not much use for powering a moving bit of kit then.

Sure they were. I was never a fan of safeblocks though, preferred BS372 Clix plugs.


NT

On 27/03/2015 17:48, alan_m wrote:
You forget the other advantage of having an outsourced IT service that
seems accountable to no-one.
They can F**k up your work's computer every night with the "Microsoft
security upgrades" etc. and then charge to correct the problem. At one
time they were supplying computers with very large hard disks but then
only allowing a single partition of 20G on which they installed the OS
and all the other software. The overnight upgrade would fill the 20G and
the next morning the computer wouldn't boot for some strange reason.

What makes you think an inside the company IT service will be any better?

We have IT support 2 days a week, coming from another site. I haven't
seen him for ages; he hides in a part of the building where we don't
have access. I think we ask too many hard questions.

Andy

On 29/03/2015 21:41, Vir Campestris wrote:

We have IT support 2 days a week, coming from another site. I haven't
seen him for ages; he hides in a part of the building where we don't
have access. I think we ask too many hard questions.



You're lucky, I had to hide from the IT people.