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PAT test and a H&S report
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report.
However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg -- Adam |
PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/2015 19:58, ARW wrote:
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg I was under the impression that PAT testing was done with the equipment unplugged. There is nothing wrong with the distribution board. There is nothing wrong with the equipment. What are you going to fail it on? You just pass both items and leave them unplugged, perhaps with a recommendation that either the plug on the equipment should be replaced and/or a suitable adaptor is used. I have had (consumer) equipment supplied with the same type of plug but with a 2 to 3 pin adapter where the 2 pin plug is firmly clamped in the 3 pin adapter. I cut of the 2 pin plug and replaced it with a 13A plug (with 3A fuse). -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/15 19:58, ARW wrote:
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg Meh. In the 80's, Dixons idea of powering up their showroom tellys was to shove the bare wires of about 3-4 sets into a single socket, with maybe a couple of matchsticks. |
PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/15 20:18, alan_m wrote:
On 23/03/2015 19:58, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg I was under the impression that PAT testing was done with the equipment unplugged. There is nothing wrong with the distribution board. There is nothing wrong with the equipment. What are you going to fail it on? I notice it is notionally fixed equipment. I would fail it for having a non standard plug with no nearby suitable socket. You could probably argue the technicalities of that, but I'd still fail it until they either put a matching power bar there or changed the plugtop. You just pass both items and leave them unplugged, perhaps with a recommendation that either the plug on the equipment should be replaced and/or a suitable adaptor is used. I have had (consumer) equipment supplied with the same type of plug but with a 2 to 3 pin adapter where the 2 pin plug is firmly clamped in the 3 pin adapter. I cut of the 2 pin plug and replaced it with a 13A plug (with 3A fuse). Or that - which is fine. |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:58:57 +0000, ARW wrote:
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? Round peg/square hole apart, is it really any different to a plastic "earth pin" on so much kit? |
PAT test and a H&S report
"Adrian" wrote in message
... On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:58:57 +0000, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? Round peg/square hole apart, is it really any different to a plastic "earth pin" on so much kit? How do you get the 2 round pins into the two rectangular holes without the plastic earth pin? -- Adam |
PAT test and a H&S report
In article ,
"ARW" writes: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg Yes, it's a fail. All that's needed are the Euro adapters which permanently clip on to those plugs. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/2015 21:02, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , "ARW" writes: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg Yes, it's a fail. All that's needed are the Euro adapters which permanently clip on to those plugs. I think we're losing sight that PAT testing is intended tests equipment, not how it's connected together. I think a customer could argue a fail if he's in the know. I would certainly recommend a euro adapter and I'd leave the equipment unplugged. |
PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/2015 20:18, alan_m wrote:
On 23/03/2015 19:58, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg I was under the impression that PAT testing was done with the equipment unplugged. There is nothing wrong with the distribution board. There is nothing wrong with the equipment. What are you going to fail it on? You just pass both items and leave them unplugged, perhaps with a recommendation that either the plug on the equipment should be replaced and/or a suitable adaptor is used. I have had (consumer) equipment supplied with the same type of plug but with a 2 to 3 pin adapter where the 2 pin plug is firmly clamped in the 3 pin adapter. I cut of the 2 pin plug and replaced it with a 13A plug (with 3A fuse). Not good practice, but the indivudals items look okay = not a PAT issue is it ? There is no requirement to use "standard" mains plugs on equipment , its not for sale. |
PAT test and a H&S report
ARW wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:58:57 +0000, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? Round peg/square hole apart, is it really any different to a plastic "earth pin" on so much kit? How do you get the 2 round pins into the two rectangular holes without the plastic earth pin? That's why you need a screwdriver. |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 20:44:26 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote: On 23/03/15 19:58, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg Meh. In the 80's, Dixons idea of powering up their showroom tellys was to shove the bare wires of about 3-4 sets into a single socket, with maybe a couple of matchsticks. We used "safeblocks" in the same situation. basically three crock clips and a lid. http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/P...ze_3/SR910.JPG -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
PAT test and a H&S report
Robert wrote:
Not good practice, but the indivudals items look okay = not a PAT issue is it ? There is no requirement to use "standard" mains plugs on equipment , its not for sale. Isn't it the case that anything that conforms to standards *somewhere* in the EU must be acceptable anywhere in the EU. E.g. you should be able to wire a house to UK standards in France and have it accepted. -- Chris Green · |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Monday, 23 March 2015 19:59:06 UTC, ARW wrote:
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? No-one's mentioned so far that the euro plugs are unfused. The socket strip is *probably* fused, but that doesn't mean that it's acceptable to put euro plugs into 13A sockets potentially fused at 32A. Owain |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 8:46:56 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
I notice it is notionally fixed equipment. I would fail it for having a non standard plug with no nearby suitable socket. If it is fixed equipment, then it is not subject to PAT testing anyway as it is not portable. . John |
PAT test and a H&S report
Much equipment is made with these clamp plug adaptors now and I see not
issue since the best ones have fuses. Brian -- From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active "alan_m" wrote in message ... On 23/03/2015 19:58, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg I was under the impression that PAT testing was done with the equipment unplugged. There is nothing wrong with the distribution board. There is nothing wrong with the equipment. What are you going to fail it on? You just pass both items and leave them unplugged, perhaps with a recommendation that either the plug on the equipment should be replaced and/or a suitable adaptor is used. I have had (consumer) equipment supplied with the same type of plug but with a 2 to 3 pin adapter where the 2 pin plug is firmly clamped in the 3 pin adapter. I cut of the 2 pin plug and replaced it with a 13A plug (with 3A fuse). -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
PAT test and a H&S report
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PAT test and a H&S report
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 20:47:41 +0000, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:58:57 +0000, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? Round peg/square hole apart, is it really any different to a plastic "earth pin" on so much kit? Yes, the pins are the wrong size leading to poor contact and overheating! Nothing wrong, I guess, if one of those 'permanently attached' adaptors were used - the kind with the non-reversible screws. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £30a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
PAT test and a H&S report
In article ,
Fredxxx writes: On 23/03/2015 21:02, Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article , "ARW" writes: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg Yes, it's a fail. All that's needed are the Euro adapters which permanently clip on to those plugs. I think we're losing sight that PAT testing is intended tests equipment, not how it's connected together. I think a customer could argue a fail if he's in the know. Not so. It includes the plug, fuse, etc. It also includes suitability for the environment in which it's used (which is why it should be done in-place as far as possible), and you can fail an appliance which has nothing wrong with it if it's not suitable for the use to which it's being put (e.g. a hot air gun being used as a hair drier). I would certainly recommend a euro adapter and I'd leave the equipment unplugged. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
PAT test and a H&S report
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió: How do you get the 2 round pins into the two rectangular holes without the plastic earth pin? You use a convenient 13A plug upside-down :) -- :: je suis Charlie :: yo soy Charlie :: ik ben Charlie :: |
PAT test and a H&S report
En el artículo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió: Yes, it's a fail. All that's needed are the Euro adapters which permanently clip on to those plugs. They're pretty good, and have a fuse. But a bit bulky. I have several here. -- :: je suis Charlie :: yo soy Charlie :: ik ben Charlie :: |
PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/2015 21:37, Brian Gaff wrote:
Much equipment is made with these clamp plug adaptors now and I see not issue since the best ones have fuses. Brian The photo shows 4 mains leads, all with continental 2 pin plugs (with round pins), plugged into a UK 6 socket distribution board. A PAT test of the distribution board may result in a pass. A PAT test of the individual equipments may result in a pass. The grey area is how everything is connected together which may be a safety issue but unlikely to be a PAT testing issue. -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
PAT test and a H&S report
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PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/15 21:48, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
On 23/03/2015 21:32, wrote: On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 8:46:56 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote: I notice it is notionally fixed equipment. I would fail it for having a non standard plug with no nearby suitable socket. If it is fixed equipment, then it is not subject to PAT testing anyway as it is not portable. . I have had a tester claim that a 2 ton lathe needed PAT as it was connected to the 3-phase supply with a plug and socket. Well, it would not do any hard to check the flex over and ensure earthing continuity (I assume it was a Class I appliance). I tend to look beyond the rubber stamping BS and say - "could it be a risk and is it easy to check?". If so, then why not... |
PAT test and a H&S report
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PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/2015 22:46, Tim Watts wrote:
On 23/03/15 21:48, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote: On 23/03/2015 21:32, wrote: On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 8:46:56 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote: I notice it is notionally fixed equipment. I would fail it for having a non standard plug with no nearby suitable socket. If it is fixed equipment, then it is not subject to PAT testing anyway as it is not portable. . I have had a tester claim that a 2 ton lathe needed PAT as it was connected to the 3-phase supply with a plug and socket. Well, it would not do any hard to check the flex over and ensure earthing continuity (I assume it was a Class I appliance)... All equipment got a visual check from me every week and earth continuity checking was part of the routine maintenance for both fixed and portable equipment. It was only plugged in because it might, every few years, need to be moved, to make getting other equipment past it easier. A plug and socket meant that could be done without needing me to be present to do the wiring. The armoured flex was protected by the same heavily armoured flexible conduit I used for the final connection to all 3-phase machines and that could withstand a fork truck driving over it. -- Colin Bignell |
PAT test and a H&S report
wrote in message ... Robert wrote: Not good practice, but the indivudals items look okay = not a PAT issue is it ? There is no requirement to use "standard" mains plugs on equipment , its not for sale. Isn't it the case that anything that conforms to standards *somewhere* in the EU must be acceptable anywhere in the EU. E.g. you should be able to wire a house to UK standards in France and have it accepted. The Frogs have the lowest standards in Western Europe. |
PAT test and a H&S report
"PeterC" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 20:18:46 +0000, alan_m wrote: On 23/03/2015 19:58, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg I was under the impression that PAT testing was done with the equipment unplugged. There is nothing wrong with the distribution board. There is nothing wrong with the equipment. What are you going to fail it on? You just pass both items and leave them unplugged, perhaps with a recommendation that either the plug on the equipment should be replaced and/or a suitable adaptor is used. I have had (consumer) equipment supplied with the same type of plug but with a 2 to 3 pin adapter where the 2 pin plug is firmly clamped in the 3 pin adapter. I cut of the 2 pin plug and replaced it with a 13A plug (with 3A fuse). A TV had a 2-pin plug within a 13A plug. I left it as it was secure. As long as there's a fuse. |
PAT test and a H&S report
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PAT test and a H&S report
On 23/03/2015 22:04, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond er.co.uk escribió: How do you get the 2 round pins into the two rectangular holes without the plastic earth pin? You use a convenient 13A plug upside-down :) Thus highlighting one of the ways in which those multi socket strips do not actually meet BS1363 - which stipulates there must be sufficient area around the holes to prevent a plug being inserted in that way, -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
PAT test and a H&S report
In article ,
John Rumm writes: On 23/03/2015 22:04, Mike Tomlinson wrote: En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond er.co.uk escribió: How do you get the 2 round pins into the two rectangular holes without the plastic earth pin? You use a convenient 13A plug upside-down :) Thus highlighting one of the ways in which those multi socket strips do not actually meet BS1363 - which stipulates there must be sufficient area around the holes to prevent a plug being inserted in that way, I was not aware of such a requirement and I can't see any such statement in BS1363-2 (sockets) or BS1363-3 (adaptors). Some people have been pushing for such a requirement, but in my view it's completely pointless as you could use something else to open the shutters instead, possibly causing more harm in the process (e.g. permanently spreading the earth pin contacts so they don't make a good contact in the future). -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 20:18:46 +0000, alan_m wrote:
On 23/03/2015 19:58, ARW wrote: I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg I was under the impression that PAT testing was done with the equipment unplugged. There is nothing wrong with the distribution board. There is nothing wrong with the equipment. What are you going to fail it on? You just pass both items and leave them unplugged, perhaps with a recommendation that either the plug on the equipment should be replaced and/or a suitable adaptor is used. I have had (consumer) equipment supplied with the same type of plug but with a 2 to 3 pin adapter where the 2 pin plug is firmly clamped in the 3 pin adapter. I cut of the 2 pin plug and replaced it with a 13A plug (with 3A fuse). A TV had a 2-pin plug within a 13A plug. I left it as it was secure. The TV was taken to France, then the 13A top removed and all was well. I've just received speakers with a 2-pin plug so I'm using an adaptor as the current is well 1A. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 7:59:06 PM UTC, ARW wrote:
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg I'd fail it because of the plug. AIUI 2 pin round pin plugs are only permitted for items one would expect to use in the bathroom, or if an adaptor is fitted that can only be opened with a tool. Suggest putting in the contract that you can automatically carry out any necessary minor repairs for an additional £1 or £1.50, which covers plugs, fuses & similar. NT |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 7:59:06 PM UTC, ARW wrote:
I never thought I would get paid to do a H&S electrical report. However can anyone else justify this as anything other than a fail? http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...e:PAT_test.jpg http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:PAT1.jpg There's plenty one could say about PAT testing on the wiki, but is it diy... well, some folk diy their own PAT testing. There's also no lack of sites covering PAT testing out there. We have a tester somewhere round here that's passing class 1 stuff wired with speaker wire and so on. Probably just plugs things into a tester, and if it says ok out it goes. NT |
PAT test and a H&S report
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
PAT is a nickname - "portable" doesn't appear in the real name. The testing applies to all appliances, except the wiring installation and any lighting which is part of the wiring installation, and also excludes anything else which has its own testing regime defined in other legislation (such as a passenger lift). I was once checking an office for PAT validity dates, and noticed an untested plug-in air freshener. We were a little unsure exactly what could or should have been done with it. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Plant amazing Acers. |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 7:58:26 AM UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote: PAT is a nickname - "portable" doesn't appear in the real name. The testing applies to all appliances, except the wiring installation and any lighting which is part of the wiring installation, and also excludes anything else which has its own testing regime defined in other legislation (such as a passenger lift). I was once checking an office for PAT validity dates, and noticed an untested plug-in air freshener. We were a little unsure exactly what could or should have been done with it. relabel it as an air polluter? New goods don't need PAT testing AIUI. NT |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 8:22:50 AM UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 7:58:26 AM UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote: Andrew Gabriel wrote: PAT is a nickname - "portable" doesn't appear in the real name. The testing applies to all appliances, except the wiring installation and any lighting which is part of the wiring installation, and also excludes anything else which has its own testing regime defined in other legislation (such as a passenger lift). I was once checking an office for PAT validity dates, and noticed an untested plug-in air freshener. We were a little unsure exactly what could or should have been done with it. relabel it as an air polluter? New goods don't need PAT testing AIUI. but if PAT testing is done in bulk every so often, better to test now so it won't exceed its test interval later. NT |
PAT test and a H&S report
In article ,
wrote: On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 7:58:26 AM UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote: Andrew Gabriel wrote: PAT is a nickname - "portable" doesn't appear in the real name. The testing applies to all appliances, except the wiring installation and any lighting which is part of the wiring installation, and also excludes anything else which has its own testing regime defined in other legislation (such as a passenger lift). I was once checking an office for PAT validity dates, and noticed an untested plug-in air freshener. We were a little unsure exactly what could or should have been done with it. relabel it as an air polluter? New goods don't need PAT testing AIUI. and how long does that "new" category last? Being suspicious, I PAT tested 4 new theatre lights a few years ago. One failed with no connection between the earth pin on the moulded plug and the metalwork of the case. -- From KT24 in Surrey Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18 |
PAT test and a H&S report
On 24/03/2015 00:22, Nightjar "cpb"@ wrote:
All equipment got a visual check from me every week and earth continuity checking was part of the routine maintenance for both fixed and portable equipment. It was only plugged in because it might, every few years, need to be moved, to make getting other equipment past it easier. A plug and socket meant that could be done without needing me to be present to do the wiring. The armoured flex was protected by the same heavily armoured flexible conduit I used for the final connection to all 3-phase machines and that could withstand a fork truck driving over it. I wonder if that's the same sort of armour that was used to connect the machine my father accidentally drove over in the '60s and got a 440V shock from it. |
PAT test and a H&S report
On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 8:55:27 AM UTC, charles wrote:
In article , wrote: On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 at 7:58:26 AM UTC, Chris J Dixon wrote: Andrew Gabriel wrote: PAT is a nickname - "portable" doesn't appear in the real name. The testing applies to all appliances, except the wiring installation and any lighting which is part of the wiring installation, and also excludes anything else which has its own testing regime defined in other legislation (such as a passenger lift). I was once checking an office for PAT validity dates, and noticed an untested plug-in air freshener. We were a little unsure exactly what could or should have been done with it. relabel it as an air polluter? New goods don't need PAT testing AIUI. and how long does that "new" category last? AIUI the usual test interval for the item. Being suspicious, I PAT tested 4 new theatre lights a few years ago. One failed with no connection between the earth pin on the moulded plug and the metalwork of the case. Yes... there's certainly new equipment I'd not pass out there. NT |
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