"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:07:14 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/10/2014 12:05, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 01:18:45 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 22/10/2014 19:42, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:04:30 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 22/10/2014 00:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was
horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house
I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some
breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

Try this as a thought experiment:

Its 11pm, your tenant has just rang to say they turned the hall light
on, and now all the lights have gone out. You have a choice of
talking a
technically clueless person through:

1) Finding the circuit breaker with the popped out button, and
telling
them to push it

or

2) pulling out a fuse carrier, finding a screwdriver, finding some
fuse
wire, get them to work out which is the 5A, now talk them through
wiring
the carrier (in the dark), and replacing the fuse.

I would contest that 1 is far simpler for all involved.

3) Tell the tenant that landlords are not nannies and they need to
work
it out for themselves, then ask if they're going to phone to ask if
their milk is still drinkable next, or how to change the baby's nappy.

Which results in you the landlord getting a bill for the emergency
electrician the tenant called when they discovered the landlord was
acting like a childish prick.

You don't need an electrician to change a fuse or push a circuit
breaker.

And there is the key point. You probably don't need them to reset a
circuit breaker. However you may well need one to safely rewire a fuse
these days.

It's hardly rocket science. It's easier than wiring a plug.

That would be like calling an electrician to change a
lightbulb. The tenant should pay of course, for being an ignoramus.

So as owner of the property, what you are saying is that when a
rewireable fuse pops, you would like someone with no understanding even
of how to change a plug, to be let loose on your property making it up
as they go along. Brave decision.

Like I said, it's not rocket science. If they're intelligent enough to
read and write, they can rewire a fuse.

But can't be relied on to use the correct fuse wire, particularly
with one the keeps blowing for whatever reason.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:58:03 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news

Like I said, it's not rocket science. If they're intelligent enough to
read and write, they can rewire a fuse.

Get a reality check.

Here is a small list of customers that can read and write. I have worked
for them I would not trust them to correctly change a fuse - this list
only
includes one person in that profession and I do not claim that everyone
in
that profession cannot change a fuse. It also includes some what they
have
said to me.

Teachers (not Geography teachers for some reason). Never let an English
teacher do any DIY
Duty Solicitor (sorry to keep you waiting in the cells I ran out of
petrol
on the motorway and I forgot my credit cards)
Surgeon (yes I can do heart surgery but electrics are not my strong
point)
Prison Officers (although he did make a good comment about Dennis Nilsen)
Armed police officer (how do you know which cables are live)
Lawyer (I could do it but myself you are £300 per hour cheaper than me) I
am
sure he was lying.
Football captain (he had a calendar on his wall showing the days he
scored -
but his team were not playing on some of those days)

If they can't change a fuse, they're too stupid to be in the human race
and we'd be better off without them.

If I was their landlord, I'd say (in a condescending tone), "Yes I'll do
it for you, but I'm charging you for it as most people do this kind of
thing themselves".

A landlord with a clue would use breakers
that plug into the current fuse blocks so most
of the tenants wont even ring up about it and
the ones that do can be told what to do over
the phone with them standing in front of the CU.

Appliances used to needs plugs wiring onto them, now they come pre-wired.

And that gives a MUCH better result with decent
modern molded plugs made in the factory.

I haven't had one of those fail in decades now and I have
so many spares it would be a complete yawn if it did.

With the stuff that doesn't come with a lead now,
I just cut the appliance end plug off and wire that
into the device now unless I need one longer than that.

It's getting ridiculous.

Its getting a lot more convenient.

In a few generations, everyone will be complete morons and the world will
grind to a halt.

How odd that it didn't when we no longer
had to break the horse in etc etc etc.

People need to think for themselves and stand on their own two feet again
or we'll never get anywhere.

Leaving fuses in rental places would have no effect on that.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:39:21 +0100, GB wrote:

On 22/10/2014 18:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/10/2014 00:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

Try this as a thought experiment:

Its 11pm, your tenant has just rang to say they turned the hall light
on, and now all the lights have gone out. You have a choice of talking a
technically clueless person through:

1) Finding the circuit breaker with the popped out button, and telling
them to push it

or

2) pulling out a fuse carrier, finding a screwdriver, finding some fuse
wire, get them to work out which is the 5A, now talk them through wiring
the carrier (in the dark), and replacing the fuse.

I would contest that 1 is far simpler for all involved.


My honest opinion is that Uncle Peter cannot be as incredibly stupid as
he makes out. He's bored and lonely. So, he sits at home and trolls on
Usenet.

You only think I'm stupid because I disagree with your viewpoint.

He also thinks you are stupid because of the silly stuff you say at
times like that most recent line about the world imploding now
that most places don't have fuses anymore.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:57:16 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/10/2014 14:46, charles wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 23/10/2014 12:29, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:15:08 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 10:55:11 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
It might trip if overloaded, which is its
purpose. As a fuse will blow.

But they're too sensitive to transients like bulk capacitors.

Then use the correct one.

They're against the regs.

Do tell us which ones.

In a school there are more regs.

BS7671 covers schools as well as domestic property.

but some LEAs have their own regulations over and above the national
ones.

Indeed, but generally not under and below... i.e. a LEA should not be
able to override BS7671 with a lower standard.

In my case it was a higher standard. The electrician quoted it to me, it
was the number of milliseconds before tripping in an environment where
kids are present.

That is for the RCDs, not the MCBs.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:28:52 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 23/10/2014 12:02, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 10:55:11 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
It might trip if overloaded, which is its
purpose. As a fuse will blow.

But they're too sensitive to transients like bulk capacitors.

Then use the correct one.

They're against the regs.

Why do you keep making these daft claims?

There are three types of Miniature Circuit Breaker, denoted as type B,
C, & D.

A circuit designer is free to choose whichever is appropriate for the
circuit.

A "normal" type B breaker will have a nominal trip current, which is
provided by a thermal mechanism (i.e. like a fuse), and a fast acting
magnetic trip mechanism for clearing "fault" currents (i.e. overloads
many times the nominal rating).

All the different types of a given nominal rating will have the same
thermal response characteristic.

Since inrush currents can "look" like momentary faults even a type B
breaker will tolerate short duration loads of 3 to 5 x its nominal
rating before tripping.

A type C will allow 5 - 10x, and a type D up to 10 - 20x its nominal
rating.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ypes_B.2CC.2CD

The designer should choose the appropriate one for the circuit. So if
you are switching a large bank of strip lights with magnetic ballasts,
then a Type C will be more sensible than a B. For circuit with a 5kW
blower motor, a type D may be more appropriate.

Well we had B for a room of 20 computers. I was told it had to be B.

B is fine with that plug them in but not turn them on effect you got
and with turning them all on simultaneously too, even tho that isnt
easy to do in the real world.

I eventually persuaded him to fit C, which improved things a bit. Then
later on a different electrician ignored the rules and fitted a D.

They should have fixed the real problem, with the leakage currents.

So how frequently should you get your house rewired?

I don't think ours has been done in about 30 years as well. Should we get it looked at?

sofarris wrote

So how frequently should you get your house rewired?

When the wiring has deteriorated and you are getting nuisance trips.

Replace the CU if it’s a dinosaur with just fuses and no
RCDs at all or is clearly mechanically falling to bits etc.

Replace sockets and switches when they have failed
or when you want them to look decent and they don’t.

I don't think ours has been done in about
30 years as well. Should we get it looked at?

It would have to be affected by a house
fire or flood to need looking at at that age.

On 24/10/14 10:05, sofarris wrote:
So how frequently should you get your house rewired?

I don't think ours has been done in about 30 years as well. Should we
get it looked at?


No, but you can pay for an EICR (inspection and test, was called a PIR)

You will not automatically fail just because it was wired to the 15th
edition or whatever - but you will get some "needs improvement" items
which you can interpret as you wish.

On 23/10/2014 23:33, Uncle Peter wrote:

You only think I'm stupid because I disagree with your viewpoint. That
makes you an egotistical moron.

That would indeed be one possibility. I will leave it as an exercise for
our readers to think of alternative explanations.

Troll.

Yes, that's the alternative explanation we all had in mind.

On Friday, October 24, 2014 10:59:33 AM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/10/14 10:05, sofarris wrote:
So how frequently should you get your house rewired?

I don't think ours has been done in about 30 years as well. Should we
get it looked at?

No, but you can pay for an EICR (inspection and test, was called a PIR)
You will not automatically fail just because it was wired to the 15th
edition or whatever - but you will get some "needs improvement" items
which you can interpret as you wish.

If you do, beware of very minor issues being marked as needing doing


NT

On Wednesday, 22 October 2014 04:15:31 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote

Why can't you move the meters yourself?

Our system doesn't allow that. It has to be done by a licensed electrician.

I thought you said DIY was cheaper.
If it is then why not become qualified yourself then DIYing it would be cheaper wouldn't it ;-P.
Same as building a hosue....

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Why can't you move the meters yourself?

Our system doesn't allow that. It has to be done by a licensed
electrician.

I thought you said DIY was cheaper.

It is. And involves a hell of a lot more than just moving meters.

If it is then why not become qualified yourself

Not even possible in our system without
being an apprentice for a number of years.

then DIYing it would be cheaper wouldn't it ;-P.

Its even cheaper to get a licensed
electrician to claim that he did the work.

Same as building a hosue....

Nothing like the same as building a house.

Its perfectly legal to build your own
house here without any qualifications.

In fact the local building inspectors told the
local builders to look at how I had done the
slab reo before the slab was poured, because
that is how it is supposed to be done, not the
way they did it.

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2014 19:49, ARW wrote:

I agree that an RCD would be good. That's the next change on the list.


Is that as a CU swap or just adding RCD protection to the socket
circuits? I am sure that you are aware that a fusebox to CU swap can in
some cases open a can of worms.


I had not realised just what a can of worms it can open up, but I have now
read the wiki. The electricians who are dealing with this recommended
just changing over the fuses, whilst I had expected them to suggest a new
consumer unit. I can see why, now.


And the words being "can open" are important. More houses manage a fusebox
to CU swap without major problems than do have major problems. Most houses
built in the 80s had fuse boxes and their electrical installations are fine.

--
Adam

In article , ARW
wrote:
"GB" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2014 19:49, ARW wrote:

I agree that an RCD would be good. That's the next change on the list.


Is that as a CU swap or just adding RCD protection to the socket
circuits? I am sure that you are aware that a fusebox to CU swap can
in some cases open a can of worms.


I had not realised just what a can of worms it can open up, but I have
now read the wiki. The electricians who are dealing with this
recommended just changing over the fuses, whilst I had expected them
to suggest a new consumer unit. I can see why, now.


And the words being "can open" are important. More houses manage a
fusebox to CU swap without major problems than do have major problems.
Most houses built in the 80s had fuse boxes and their electrical
installations are fine.

I moved into this house in 1977 and one of my first projects was to change
the CU to one with RCDs.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"charles" wrote in message
...

And the words being "can open" are important. More houses manage a
fusebox to CU swap without major problems than do have major problems.
Most houses built in the 80s had fuse boxes and their electrical
installations are fine.

I moved into this house in 1977 and one of my first projects was to change
the CU to one with RCDs.


That would have been unusual in 1977. TT supply?

--
Adam

"charles" wrote in message
...


Why can't you move the meters yourself? If it's anything like mine,
there's a 100A fuse before the meter, which you can pull out while you
move the meter.

They should be sealed in place with a security tag which you break at your
peril.


They are just asking to be cut.

--
Adam

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:33:07 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless
exercise,

Not pointless in this case. It does serve a useful pupose and the OP is
aware that RCD protection is needed (at least on the sockets IMHO)

and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually more dangerous (under
certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they replaced.

How?

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly plug-in
MCBs

Adding missing earth bonding and RCDs save lives. I have long argued that
even the use of RCD plug in "powerbreakers" have saved many lives and
injuries but these stats are not recorded as the RCD tripped when it is
was
supposed to and so it was a non-event ie no-one got an electrical shock
and
the RCD was not praised for it's actions.

Pussy.


No. I take risks and break many H&S rules. I do not agree that the 17th
edition is safer than the 16th edition just because of it stupid RCD rules.

But RCD protection for sockets is a lifesaver.


--
Adam

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:49:46 +0100, ARW wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:33:07 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless
exercise,

Not pointless in this case. It does serve a useful pupose and the OP is
aware that RCD protection is needed (at least on the sockets IMHO)

and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually more dangerous (under
certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they replaced.

How?

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly plug-in
MCBs

Adding missing earth bonding and RCDs save lives. I have long argued that
even the use of RCD plug in "powerbreakers" have saved many lives and
injuries but these stats are not recorded as the RCD tripped when it is
was
supposed to and so it was a non-event ie no-one got an electrical shock
and
the RCD was not praised for it's actions.

Pussy.

No. I take risks and break many H&S rules.

Excellent.

I do not agree that the 17th
edition is safer than the 16th edition just because of it stupid RCD rules.

What is imposed in 17 about RCDs that isn't in 16?

But RCD protection for sockets is a lifesaver.

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when mowing the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

--
Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

On 25/10/14 11:49, ARW wrote:

No. I take risks and break many H&S rules. I do not agree that the 17th
edition is safer than the 16th edition just because of it stupid RCD rules.

But RCD protection for sockets is a lifesaver.

My dad was an MIEE (power engineer for the LEB). he was asked to comment
on the regs back around the 14th edition froma general usability point
of view.

"Too long" he said.

What he meant was that the typical user of the regs would have to plough
though an awful lot of material - much of which was not relevant or
necessarily that clear.

I agree with him there. All the extra "fluffy" rules do is:

1) Have sticklers like me in a panic trying to fathom if we've accounted
for everything;

2) Add bulk and too much constant change so practitioners have a hard
time keeping abreast;

Now a good deal of that was addressed by Whitfield and his pocket guide,
and the OnSite guide.

But right now, you've got a single big book covering agricultural,
industrial, hostpital and domestic domains. A large proportion of
sparkies will not ever go to two of those domains (Commercial I lump in
with domestic as being sufficiently similar).

So there's a case for breaking the book in to volumes - main core
(domestic/commercial) with add on volumes for specialist sites.

And then there's this constant publishing of amendments - again,
ridiculous waste of money for a few changes.


One edition, every 10 years max IMHO. If it was safe today, it is not
suddenly a lethal hazard tomorrow just because an amendment says so (see
plastic CUs discussion).

If there's an issue with plastic CUs, it is down to the BS (or EU)
standards to address IMO, not the wiring regs. The regs should just
assume a UK approved CU is fit for purpose, save for special locations
(eg agri/industrial/petrolchem/mining).

On 25/10/14 13:59, Tim Watts wrote:


I was going to add - I just got the Green book (Amendment 1) as my old
Red was getting knackered.

I am NOT shelling out for yet another bloody copy because someone was bored.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:49:46 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:33:07 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless
exercise,

Not pointless in this case. It does serve a useful pupose and the OP is
aware that RCD protection is needed (at least on the sockets IMHO)

and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually more dangerous
(under
certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they replaced.

How?

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly
plug-in
MCBs

Adding missing earth bonding and RCDs save lives. I have long argued
that
even the use of RCD plug in "powerbreakers" have saved many lives and
injuries but these stats are not recorded as the RCD tripped when it is
was
supposed to and so it was a non-event ie no-one got an electrical shock
and
the RCD was not praised for it's actions.

Pussy.

No. I take risks and break many H&S rules.

Excellent.

It is a skill that I like to teach.

I do not agree that the 17th
edition is safer than the 16th edition just because of it stupid RCD
rules.

What is imposed in 17 about RCDs that isn't in 16?

RCD protection for "everything" in the 17th and just RCD protection where
needed in the 16th.

But RCD protection for sockets is a lifesaver.

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when mowing
the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

And that is where your comments become silly.


--
Adam

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.



round pin plugs, lead sheathed cable, paper insulated or some other
museum piece would make you want to consider rewiring.
PVC insulated wiring installed correctly certainly good for more than 30
years.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 19:42:11 +0100, rick wrote:

On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.



round pin plugs, lead sheathed cable, paper insulated or some other
museum piece would make you want to consider rewiring.
PVC insulated wiring installed correctly certainly good for more than 30
years.

Agreed.

--
"The Ten Commandments contain 297 words.
The Bill of Rights is stated in 463 words.
Lincoln's Gettysburg Address contains 266 words.
A recent federal directive to regulate the price of cabbage contains 26,911 words." -- Atlanta Journal

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:01:37 +0100, ARW wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 11:49:46 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:33:07 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless
exercise,

Not pointless in this case. It does serve a useful pupose and the OP is
aware that RCD protection is needed (at least on the sockets IMHO)

and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually more dangerous
(under
certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they replaced.

How?

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly
plug-in
MCBs

Adding missing earth bonding and RCDs save lives. I have long argued
that
even the use of RCD plug in "powerbreakers" have saved many lives and
injuries but these stats are not recorded as the RCD tripped when it is
was
supposed to and so it was a non-event ie no-one got an electrical shock
and
the RCD was not praised for it's actions.

Pussy.

No. I take risks and break many H&S rules.

Excellent.

It is a skill that I like to teach.

Good.

I do not agree that the 17th
edition is safer than the 16th edition just because of it stupid RCD
rules.

What is imposed in 17 about RCDs that isn't in 16?

RCD protection for "everything" in the 17th and just RCD protection where
needed in the 16th.

FFS.

But RCD protection for sockets is a lifesaver.

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when mowing
the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

And that is where your comments become silly.

Why?

--
It is bad luck to be superstitious.

En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

And that is where your comments become silly.

He (along with Speed) are just trolls. Beats me why anyone bothers
taking the bait.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:01:37 +0100, ARW
wrote:

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when
mowing
the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

And that is where your comments become silly.

Why?


Your decision to have no RCD protection on the pump suggests that you are a
fool. You have no control over the safety of the pump installation.


--
Adam

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:34:23 -0000, ARW wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:01:37 +0100, ARW
wrote:

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when
mowing
the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

And that is where your comments become silly.

Why?


Your decision to have no RCD protection on the pump suggests that you are a
fool. You have no control over the safety of the pump installation.

Since I put it there, I have every control over it. And not having an RCD on it might endanger the goldfish, but it's unlikely for the pump to leak.

--
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. -- US Air Force training manual.

On 26/10/2014 06:46, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , ARW adamwadsworth@blueyond
er.co.uk escribió:

And that is where your comments become silly.

He (along with Speed) are just trolls. Beats me why anyone bothers
taking the bait.

With speed, I would agree - hence why I have a filter set to mark all
his posts as "read" before I get to em. The lootenent however is a
somewhat more skilled troll, and on some occasions manages to ask what
might be interesting questions to some readers in the future. The fact
that he just wants to argue with the answers later, is in some ways
neither here or there, since the question and its answers will remain in
the archives for years to come. So to my mind, some engagement is
worthwhile initially.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/10/2014 19:42, rick wrote:
On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.



round pin plugs, lead sheathed cable, paper insulated or some other
museum piece would make you want to consider rewiring.
PVC insulated wiring installed correctly certainly good for more than 30
years.

Worth keeping in mind that there are separate motivations for a rewire.
Knackered cable etc is certainly one, but a install that does not meet
the needs or patterns of modern usage could equally be another, evn if
the cable is in perfect health.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:34:23 -0000, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:01:37 +0100, ARW
wrote:

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when
mowing
the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

And that is where your comments become silly.

Why?


Your decision to have no RCD protection on the pump suggests that you are
a
fool. You have no control over the safety of the pump installation.

Since I put it there, I have every control over it.

And how often do you do a 500V 1000MOhm insulation test on the pump and its
supply cable?

--
Adam

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 19:08:00 -0000, ARW wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:34:23 -0000, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:01:37 +0100, ARW
wrote:

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when
mowing
the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

And that is where your comments become silly.

Why?


Your decision to have no RCD protection on the pump suggests that you are
a
fool. You have no control over the safety of the pump installation.

Since I put it there, I have every control over it.

And how often do you do a 500V 1000MOhm insulation test on the pump and its
supply cable?

About the same number of times as I worry about a very unlikely problem which isn't going to kill anyone but a goldfish even if it were to occur. Those pumps have IP ratings you know.

--
Last night I reached for my liquid Viagra and accidentally swigged from a bottle of Tippex.
I woke up this morning with a huge correction.

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 18:06:04 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 25/10/2014 19:42, rick wrote:
On 21/10/2014 20:13, Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't been
done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it works, why not
just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.



round pin plugs, lead sheathed cable, paper insulated or some other
museum piece would make you want to consider rewiring.
PVC insulated wiring installed correctly certainly good for more than 30
years.

Worth keeping in mind that there are separate motivations for a rewire.
Knackered cable etc is certainly one, but a install that does not meet
the needs or patterns of modern usage could equally be another, evn if
the cable is in perfect health.

Adding a few sockets hardly needs a rewire. Just a few spurs. It's doubtful anyone would need more than 30A on a socket ring.

--
How much deeper would the ocean be if sponges didn't grow in it?

En el artículo , Vir
Campestris escribió:

What made them do that?

Not sure yet, this is an installation in Spain. I get to look at it
next week to try and work out what happened.

And incidentally, you can't blow .jpg images up that much and have them
look OK.

Crappy camera on a well-abused Samsung Galaxy S Pro, sorry. (Not mine.)
Also did a gamma correction (shift-U) and a sharpening (shift-S) in
Irfanview to try and improve the image.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

John Rumm writes:

On 22/10/2014 00:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

Try this as a thought experiment:

Its 11pm, your tenant has just rang to say they turned the hall light
on, and now all the lights have gone out. You have a choice of talking a
technically clueless person through:

1) Finding the circuit breaker with the popped out button, and telling
them to push it

or

2) pulling out a fuse carrier, finding a screwdriver, finding some fuse
wire, get them to work out which is the 5A, now talk them through wiring
the carrier (in the dark), and replacing the fuse.

I would contest that 1 is far simpler for all involved.

If my lights went out at 11 p.m., and I was awake to know about it,
rather than finding and rewiring the fuse, I would turn on a bedside
lamp (or similar) and worry about the lighting circuit fuse(s) in the
morning.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 19:08:00 -0000, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:34:23 -0000, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:01:37 +0100, ARW

wrote:

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when
mowing
the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

And that is where your comments become silly.

Why?


Your decision to have no RCD protection on the pump suggests that you
are
a
fool. You have no control over the safety of the pump installation.

Since I put it there, I have every control over it.

And how often do you do a 500V 1000MOhm insulation test on the pump and
its
supply cable?

About the same number of times as I worry about a very unlikely problem
which isn't going to kill anyone but a goldfish even if it were to occur.
Those pumps have IP ratings you know.

If an earth fault was to occur, the fuse/MCB might not operate.
It would be possible to get an electric shock even stood at the side of the
pond in wet weather.

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:27:45 +0000, harryagain wrote:

If an earth fault was to occur, the fuse/MCB might not operate.
It would be possible to get an electric shock even stood at the side of
the pond in wet weather.

Given exactly which phuckwit we're talking about/to, can we PLEASE stop
trying to talk him out of the consequences of his own stupidity, and just
pass him a hosepipe and an extension lead?

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:27:45 +0000, harryagain wrote:

If an earth fault was to occur, the fuse/MCB might not operate.
It would be possible to get an electric shock even stood at the side of
the pond in wet weather.

Given exactly which phuckwit we're talking about/to, can we PLEASE stop
trying to talk him out of the consequences of his own stupidity, and just
pass him a hosepipe and an extension lead?


He is immune to electrical shocks.

--
Adam

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:57:55 +0000, ARW wrote:

If an earth fault was to occur, the fuse/MCB might not operate.
It would be possible to get an electric shock even stood at the side
of the pond in wet weather.

Given exactly which phuckwit we're talking about/to, can we PLEASE stop
trying to talk him out of the consequences of his own stupidity, and
just pass him a hosepipe and an extension lead?

He is immune to electrical shocks.

Such hypotheses require thorough investigation.

In message , ARW
writes
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:27:45 +0000, harryagain wrote:

If an earth fault was to occur, the fuse/MCB might not operate.
It would be possible to get an electric shock even stood at the side of
the pond in wet weather.

Given exactly which phuckwit we're talking about/to, can we PLEASE stop
trying to talk him out of the consequences of his own stupidity, and just
pass him a hosepipe and an extension lead?


He is immune to electrical shocks.


There was once a bus conductor, and he had really bad anger management
problems, One day a woman on the bus refused to pay the fare. Well, the
bus conductor got so angry he killed her. He was tried and sentenced to
death by the electric chair.

The day for his execution came, and they took him out of his cell and
brought him to the chair. The guard said, "Have you any last requests?"

The man replied, "Yes, I'd like an unripe green banana, please."

So they got him an unripe green banana, and he peeled it, ate it, and
threw the skin away, and they strapped him to the chair.

"Are you ready?" they asked.

"Yes," he said.

And they hit the switch. And nothing happened. So he was taken back to
his cell.

The guards rewired the chair and tested it a few times, and it worked
perfectly. They brought the man back and said, "Have you any last
requests?"

The man replied, "Yes, I'd like an unripe green banana, please."

So they got him an unripe green banana, and he peeled it, ate it, and
threw the skin away, and they strapped him to the chair.

"Are you ready?" they asked.

"Yes," he said.

And they hit the switch. And nothing happened. So he was taken back to
his cell.

Well, the guards bought a brand new electric chair. This one was
amazing: leather seats, gold-plated armrests studded with rubies, the
works. It was an incredible sight.

They brought the man back and asked, "Have you any last requests?"

The man replied, "Yes, I'd like an unripe green banana, please."

So they got him an unripe green banana, and he peeled it, ate it, and
threw the skin away, and they strapped him to the chair.

"Are you ready?" they asked.

"Yes," he said.

And they hit the switch. And nothing happened.

Now, in this particular state, there was a law that if someone survived
the electric chair three times, he must be set free. So the man was
released, and as soon as he stepped out of the prison, the press was all
over him. He walked through the crowd and the flashing cameras until he
saw a small man who asked, "Have you discovered some miraculous
phenomenon of unripe green bananas?"

"No," he replied, "I've just always been a bad conductor."
--
Bill

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:27:45 -0000, harryagain wrote:


"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 19:08:00 -0000, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:34:23 -0000, ARW
wrote:

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:01:37 +0100, ARW

wrote:

So you're a semi pussy. I don't bother with RCD at all, even when
mowing
the lawn, or a submerged pump in a fish pond. It's 240V, not 11kV.

And that is where your comments become silly.

Why?


Your decision to have no RCD protection on the pump suggests that you
are
a
fool. You have no control over the safety of the pump installation.

Since I put it there, I have every control over it.

And how often do you do a 500V 1000MOhm insulation test on the pump and
its
supply cable?

About the same number of times as I worry about a very unlikely problem
which isn't going to kill anyone but a goldfish even if it were to occur.
Those pumps have IP ratings you know.

If an earth fault was to occur, the fuse/MCB might not operate.
It would be possible to get an electric shock even stood at the side of the
pond in wet weather.

Only a little one.

--
Why do they rate a movie "R" for "adult language?"
The only people I hear using that language are teenagers.