On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:34:38 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 08/11/2014 20:51, wrote:
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:20:07 PM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 08/11/2014 11:55, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger. There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.


Shooting anyone with an illegal firearm will get you prosecuted.
Shooting someone with a legal one may get you prosecuted but if your
explanation is good enough the jury will not find you guilty.

You can use as much force as necessary to protect you and your family
but you can expect to justify it.

Sorry, but I think that's very naive.

There have been attempts to clarify the law since Martin though. There
was a case not long ago where a man injured a pair of burglars with a
legally held shotgun. He was not prosecuted.

IMO if someone burgles your house, you should be able to do what the hell you like with the *******. He's a criminal and should have no protection from you in law.

--
What is the difference between a 69 and driving in the fog?
When driving in the fog, you can't see the asshole in front of you.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:57:07 AM UTC, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger.
There is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in
the actions that you are allowed to take.

or so someone claimed. That's the problem, anyone can claim anything and
probably will.

It isnt that hard to work out whether someone has been shot
in the back or the front and where the rest of the birdshot
ended up that didn't end up in the body of the burglar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

When prosecutors dont know the facts

They did in this case.

they can be very keen on make-it-up.

Bull****.

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:55:46 -0000, Bill
wrote:

In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger. There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.

But if you are in danger can be subjective. I might be attacking you,
you fend me off, then I'm walking away from you. How do you know I'm not
about to grab a rock and chuck it at you? To be safe, you should disable
me completely.

Belgrano?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:54:06 -0000, charles wrote:

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:55:46 -0000, Bill
wrote:

In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger. There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.

But if you are in danger can be subjective. I might be attacking you,
you fend me off, then I'm walking away from you. How do you know I'm not
about to grab a rock and chuck it at you? To be safe, you should disable
me completely.

Belgrano?

You're going to attack me with a warship?!?

--
To snip or not to snip that is the question,
Whether 'tis nobler for the index finger to cut the verbosity and gobbledegook of nutters
or to append a meaningless comment and demonstrate their shallowness.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 2:58:11 PM UTC, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:57:07 AM UTC, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask
Tony Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger.
There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.

or so someone claimed. That's the problem, anyone can claim anything
and probably will. When prosecutors dont know the facts they can be
very keen on make-it-up.

As you say, anyone can claim anything, but it is hard to imagine someone
attacking you by coming at you backwards. Certainly Fred Barras was
reported as having been shot in his back.

But all said and done, that is what the jury is there to decide.

Stuff happens so fast. You pull a weapon & use it, they turn at the same
time.

But you still have a problem with why the birdshot that didn't
end up in the burglar is in the wall below the window that he
was leaving thru with a nice outline of his legs etc.

Or they're standing at 90 degrees to you and you get them in the back.

You still have a problem with where the birdshot
that didn't end up in the burglar ends up.

The prosecutor doesnt know what's fact

They do actually, even if you have tried belting the
burglar with a ****ing great waddy and you end up
with quite a bit of blood splatter in the process of
killing him with that.

and believes their own vivid imagination, paints
a story based on all sorts of wrong assumptions,
embellishes it with all sorts of cobblers,

You've been watching too much TV. The real world isnt like that.

the jury thinks it sounds plausible and you do 20 years.

Have fun listing anyone that has ended up doing 20 years.

If that's the defintion of 'can defend yourself'
youre using, good luck with that.

Some have done that, including one of ours that deliberately
shot the burglar in the back when he was running away and
had the jury find him not guilty of anything.

I'm much more in favour of the American version.

I am too, but you have a problem with the fact that
hardly anyone on that soggy little island is allowed
to have a gun in their home anymore, let alone use
it on a burglar even if they are in real danger.

There you genuinely do have the right
to defend youself with deadly force.

It isnt that black and white in the US either.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:20:07 PM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 08/11/2014 11:55, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger. There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.


Shooting anyone with an illegal firearm will get you prosecuted.
Shooting someone with a legal one may get you prosecuted but if your
explanation is good enough the jury will not find you guilty.

You can use as much force as necessary to protect you and your family
but you can expect to justify it.

Sorry, but I think that's very naive.

It's the law. Martin was charged because he shot them as they were leaving.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:55:46 -0000, Bill
wrote:

In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger. There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.

But if you are in danger can be subjective.

Sure.

I might be attacking you, you fend me off, then I'm walking away from you.
How do you know I'm not about to grab a rock and chuck it at you?

You don't. But if you disturb some burglars and they
run away when they realise that you are onto them,
its much more likely that they will just keep running.

To be safe, you should disable me completely.

Not necessarily, that may just increase
the danger to you to try to do that.

There have been plenty that have ended up getting stabbed
by a burglar who was prevented from getting away.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:47:10 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:55:46 -0000, Bill
wrote:

In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger. There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.

But if you are in danger can be subjective.

Sure.

I might be attacking you, you fend me off, then I'm walking away from you.
How do you know I'm not about to grab a rock and chuck it at you?

You don't. But if you disturb some burglars and they
run away when they realise that you are onto them,
its much more likely that they will just keep running.

Killing them will stop them burgling someone else.

To be safe, you should disable me completely.

Not necessarily, that may just increase
the danger to you to try to do that.

There have been plenty that have ended up getting stabbed
by a burglar who was prevented from getting away.

Well I was thinking of when you knew you had the upper hand. For example you have a large rock held above the guy's head.

--
"Th on my k yboard has stopp d working"

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:34:38 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 08/11/2014 20:51, wrote:
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:20:07 PM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 08/11/2014 11:55, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger.
There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.


Shooting anyone with an illegal firearm will get you prosecuted.
Shooting someone with a legal one may get you prosecuted but if your
explanation is good enough the jury will not find you guilty.

You can use as much force as necessary to protect you and your family
but you can expect to justify it.

Sorry, but I think that's very naive.

There have been attempts to clarify the law since Martin though. There
was a case not long ago where a man injured a pair of burglars with a
legally held shotgun. He was not prosecuted.

IMO if someone burgles your house, you should be able to do what the hell
you like with the *******.

Most don't agree, particularly when it's a little kid doing the burglary.

He's a criminal and should have no protection from you in law.

Even sillier than you usually manage with little kids particularly.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:47:10 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:55:46 -0000, Bill
wrote:

In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger. There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.

But if you are in danger can be subjective.

Sure.

I might be attacking you, you fend me off, then I'm walking away from
you.
How do you know I'm not about to grab a rock and chuck it at you?

You don't. But if you disturb some burglars and they
run away when they realise that you are onto them,
its much more likely that they will just keep running.

Killing them will stop them burgling someone else.

Sure, but guarantees a lot more of a hassle with the cops etc.

To be safe, you should disable me completely.

Not necessarily, that may just increase
the danger to you to try to do that.

There have been plenty that have ended up getting stabbed
by a burglar who was prevented from getting away.

Well I was thinking of when you knew you had the upper hand.

Very hard to know that tho, particularly given that
you don't know whether the burglar has a knife he
can use to stab you with when you try to disable
him completely and he doesn't like that idea.

For example you have a large rock held above the guy's head.

In which case he may decide to stab you
so you don't bring it down on his head.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:13:15 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:47:10 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:55:46 -0000, Bill
wrote:

In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger. There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.

But if you are in danger can be subjective.

Sure.

I might be attacking you, you fend me off, then I'm walking away from
you.
How do you know I'm not about to grab a rock and chuck it at you?

You don't. But if you disturb some burglars and they
run away when they realise that you are onto them,
its much more likely that they will just keep running.

Killing them will stop them burgling someone else.

Sure, but guarantees a lot more of a hassle with the cops etc.

I've never heard them called cops before, don't you call them pigs?

To be safe, you should disable me completely.

Not necessarily, that may just increase
the danger to you to try to do that.

There have been plenty that have ended up getting stabbed
by a burglar who was prevented from getting away.

Well I was thinking of when you knew you had the upper hand.

Very hard to know that tho, particularly given that
you don't know whether the burglar has a knife he
can use to stab you with when you try to disable
him completely and he doesn't like that idea.

If you're better built than him, or know Karate, chances are you win.

For example you have a large rock held above the guy's head.

In which case he may decide to stab you
so you don't bring it down on his head.

That might make you let go.

--
The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of the oncoming train.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:06:46 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:34:38 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 08/11/2014 20:51, wrote:
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:20:07 PM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 08/11/2014 11:55, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger.
There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.


Shooting anyone with an illegal firearm will get you prosecuted.
Shooting someone with a legal one may get you prosecuted but if your
explanation is good enough the jury will not find you guilty.

You can use as much force as necessary to protect you and your family
but you can expect to justify it.

Sorry, but I think that's very naive.

There have been attempts to clarify the law since Martin though. There
was a case not long ago where a man injured a pair of burglars with a
legally held shotgun. He was not prosecuted.

IMO if someone burgles your house, you should be able to do what the hell
you like with the *******.

Most don't agree, particularly when it's a little kid doing the burglary.

Why do people treat kids as another species? They're human like us, and should be subject to the same stuff as us.

He's a criminal and should have no protection from you in law.

Even sillier than you usually manage with little kids particularly.

Why do you want to protect criminals?

--
In 1999 the creators of KY Jelly created a new product. It was called "Y2K Jelly." It allowed you to get four digits in your date instead of two.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:13:15 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:47:10 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:55:46 -0000, Bill
wrote:

In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask
Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy
who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger.
There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.

But if you are in danger can be subjective.

Sure.

I might be attacking you, you fend me off, then I'm walking away from
you.
How do you know I'm not about to grab a rock and chuck it at you?

You don't. But if you disturb some burglars and they
run away when they realise that you are onto them,
its much more likely that they will just keep running.

Killing them will stop them burgling someone else.

Sure, but guarantees a lot more of a hassle with the cops etc.

I've never heard them called cops before,

Then you need to get out more.

Even the cops call themselves cops.

don't you call them pigs?

Some do.

To be safe, you should disable me completely.

Not necessarily, that may just increase
the danger to you to try to do that.

There have been plenty that have ended up getting stabbed
by a burglar who was prevented from getting away.

Well I was thinking of when you knew you had the upper hand.

Very hard to know that tho, particularly given that
you don't know whether the burglar has a knife he
can use to stab you with when you try to disable
him completely and he doesn't like that idea.

If you're better built than him,

Few women are.

or know Karate, chances are you win.

Most have enough of a clue to not risk it, particularly
if the burglar is trying to get away once they realise that
there is someone in the place they are trying to burgle.

I did grab one in my place, but that wasn't to stop him
doing anything to me, it was to stop him running away
and I called the cops and they came and got him.

For example you have a large rock held above the guy's head.

In which case he may decide to stab you
so you don't bring it down on his head.

That might make you let go.

But you may well be able to get out of the road of it too.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:06:46 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:34:38 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 08/11/2014 20:51, wrote:
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:20:07 PM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 08/11/2014 11:55, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask
Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy
who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger.
There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.


Shooting anyone with an illegal firearm will get you prosecuted.
Shooting someone with a legal one may get you prosecuted but if your
explanation is good enough the jury will not find you guilty.

You can use as much force as necessary to protect you and your family
but you can expect to justify it.

Sorry, but I think that's very naive.

There have been attempts to clarify the law since Martin though. There
was a case not long ago where a man injured a pair of burglars with a
legally held shotgun. He was not prosecuted.

IMO if someone burgles your house, you should be able to do what the
hell
you like with the *******.

Most don't agree, particularly when it's a little kid doing the burglary.

Why do people treat kids as another species?

They don't. Most don't consider that killing them
when you catch them burglaring is a great idea tho.

They're human like us, and should be subject to the same stuff as us.

The law says otherwise and most agree with that aspect of the law.

He's a criminal and should have no protection from you in law.

Even sillier than you usually manage with little kids particularly.

Why do you want to protect criminals?

Because little kids can be made to see the error
of their ways without killing them at times.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 00:24:54 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:06:46 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:34:38 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 08/11/2014 20:51, wrote:
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:20:07 PM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 08/11/2014 11:55, Bill wrote:
In message ,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask
Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy
who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger.
There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.


Shooting anyone with an illegal firearm will get you prosecuted.
Shooting someone with a legal one may get you prosecuted but if your
explanation is good enough the jury will not find you guilty.

You can use as much force as necessary to protect you and your family
but you can expect to justify it.

Sorry, but I think that's very naive.

There have been attempts to clarify the law since Martin though. There
was a case not long ago where a man injured a pair of burglars with a
legally held shotgun. He was not prosecuted.

IMO if someone burgles your house, you should be able to do what the
hell
you like with the *******.

Most don't agree, particularly when it's a little kid doing the burglary.

Why do people treat kids as another species?

They don't. Most don't consider that killing them
when you catch them burglaring is a great idea tho.

You said "particularly", as though killing an adult isn't so bad.

They're human like us, and should be subject to the same stuff as us.

The law says otherwise and most agree with that aspect of the law.

State your reasoning for agreeing.

He's a criminal and should have no protection from you in law.

Even sillier than you usually manage with little kids particularly.

Why do you want to protect criminals?

Because little kids can be made to see the error
of their ways without killing them at times.

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

--
Black holes are where god divided by zero.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 00:24:54 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 23:06:46 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:34:38 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 08/11/2014 20:51, wrote:
On Saturday, November 8, 2014 3:20:07 PM UTC, Dennis@home wrote:
On 08/11/2014 11:55, Bill wrote:
In message
,
writes
On Friday, November 7, 2014 11:05:16 PM UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:34:09 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:08:50 -0000, wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:

You can stab a burglar in America.

You can if you are in danger in that soggy little island too.

And you should be allowed to here too.

You are if you are in danger.

If you do you'll be prosecuted and msot likely found guilty. Ask
Tony
Martin.

I seem to recall, from the news reports, that in TM's case the guy
who
was shot was running away, therefore TM was no longer in danger.
There
is a subtle difference here, which makes a big difference, in the
actions that you are allowed to take.


Shooting anyone with an illegal firearm will get you prosecuted.
Shooting someone with a legal one may get you prosecuted but if
your
explanation is good enough the jury will not find you guilty.

You can use as much force as necessary to protect you and your
family
but you can expect to justify it.

Sorry, but I think that's very naive.

There have been attempts to clarify the law since Martin though.
There
was a case not long ago where a man injured a pair of burglars with a
legally held shotgun. He was not prosecuted.

IMO if someone burgles your house, you should be able to do what the
hell
you like with the *******.

Most don't agree, particularly when it's a little kid doing the
burglary.

Why do people treat kids as another species?

They don't. Most don't consider that killing them
when you catch them burglaring is a great idea tho.

You said "particularly", as though killing an adult isn't so bad.

It isn't with the worst of the scum like the one Tony Martin killed.

They're human like us, and should be subject to the same stuff as us.

The law says otherwise and most agree with that aspect of the law.

State your reasoning for agreeing.

I did, below.

He's a criminal and should have no protection from you in law.

Even sillier than you usually manage with little kids particularly.

Why do you want to protect criminals?

Because little kids can be made to see the error
of their ways without killing them at times.

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

Even you should be able to do better than that pathetic effort.

Obviously not.

On 09/11/2014 00:53, Uncle Peter wrote:


Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.


They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.
They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 09/11/2014 00:53, Uncle Peter wrote:


Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.


They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.
They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.


How do you know if they will reoffend?

--
Adam

On 09/11/2014 16:37, ARW wrote:
"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 09/11/2014 00:53, Uncle Peter wrote:


Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.


They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.
They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.


How do you know if they will reoffend?

Eyes too close together?

Dennis@home wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.

They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.

Not practical with burglars.

On 08/11/2014 23:50, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you're better built than him, or know Karate, chances are you win.

If you know Karate you're likely to end up in court for "assault with a
deadly weapon".

Andy

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 19:48:38 -0000, Clive George wrote:

On 09/11/2014 16:37, ARW wrote:
"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 09/11/2014 00:53, Uncle Peter wrote:


Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.


They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.
They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.


How do you know if they will reoffend?

Eyes too close together?

Agreed.

--
Police arrested two kids yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, and the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:25:57 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:

Dennis@home wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.

They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.

Not practical with burglars.

Why, do they steal the locks?

--
Police arrested two kids yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, and the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:25:57 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Dennis@home wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.

They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.

Not practical with burglars.

Why,

Too expensive, stupid.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 21:17:29 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:25:57 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Dennis@home wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.

They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.

Not practical with burglars.

Why,

Too expensive, stupid.

They should pay for themselves by working.

--
My friend drowned in a bowl of muesli - a strong currant pulled him in.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:36:23 -0000, Vir Campestris wrote:

On 08/11/2014 23:50, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you're better built than him, or know Karate, chances are you win.

If you know Karate you're likely to end up in court for "assault with a
deadly weapon".

Or not, for self defence with a deadly weapon.

--
There is a big controversy on the Jewish view of when life begins. In Jewish tradition, the foetus is not considered viable until it graduates from law school.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 21:17:29 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:25:57 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Dennis@home wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.

They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.

Not practical with burglars.

Why,

Too expensive, stupid.

They should pay for themselves by working.

They never get anywhere close to paying the cost of
keeping them in jail, stupid.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 02:48:39 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 21:17:29 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:25:57 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:

Dennis@home wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.

They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.

Not practical with burglars.

Why,

Too expensive, stupid.

They should pay for themselves by working.

They never get anywhere close to paying the cost of
keeping them in jail, stupid.

How much does a day's jail for each person cost?

--
In light of the Madrid bombing, France has raised its terror alert level from "run" to "hide."
The only two higher levels in France are "surrender" and "collaborate."

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Dennis@home wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Yeah right, people who go to jail never reoffend.

They don't reoffend against the public while in jail.

They just need to be kept in jail if they are going to reoffend.

Not practical with burglars.

Why,

Too expensive, stupid.

They should pay for themselves by working.

They never get anywhere close to paying
the cost of keeping them in jail, stupid.

How much does a day's jail for each person cost?

Varys with the jurisdiction.

In ALL of them it is a hell of a lot more
than they can ever get by working.

The only exception would be someone like JK Rowling
or Jeffery Archer etc who could well pay for their stay
by continuing to write books in jail.