On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 11:06:48 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.
And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless exercise, and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually
more dangerous (under certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they
replaced.

Funny, mine trip faster (the two I replaced on the lighting circuits to stop blown halogens ****ing the PIRs.

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly plug-in
MCBs

Electricity at 240V isn't lethal unless you've got a weak heart, which is why most electricians have had several shocks and are still here.

--
Hello, you have reached technical support.
Please dial 1 to report an issue, 2 to report a challenge, 3 to report a problem, or 4 to report a cockup.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 11:06:48 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.
And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless exercise, and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually
more dangerous (under certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they
replaced.

Funny, mine trip faster (the two I replaced on the lighting circuits to stop blown halogens ****ing the PIRs.

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly plug-in
MCBs

Electricity at 240V isn't lethal unless you've got a weak heart, which is why most electricians have had several shocks and are still here.

--
Hello, you have reached technical support.
Please dial 1 to report an issue, 2 to report a challenge, 3 to report a problem, or 4 to report a cockup.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:15:15 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 22/10/2014 13:33, F Murtz wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't
been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it
works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

This one does,
http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/it...l%20Notice.pdf

You have to smile at the mastery of understatement that comes with
instructions like:

"Do not use the cable. Discontinue use immediately and return the
product to the place of purchase for a full refund or replacement. "

Especially if its been chopped into lots of bits, installed and covered
over and to make matters worse you can't easily identify which bits are
this stuff, or another unaffected brand.

Set fire to the house and blame them. Good insurance scam.

--
Confucius say: "Man who lives in glass house should change in basement."

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:15:15 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 22/10/2014 13:33, F Murtz wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't
been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it
works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

This one does,
http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/it...l%20Notice.pdf

You have to smile at the mastery of understatement that comes with
instructions like:

"Do not use the cable. Discontinue use immediately and return the
product to the place of purchase for a full refund or replacement. "

Especially if its been chopped into lots of bits, installed and covered
over and to make matters worse you can't easily identify which bits are
this stuff, or another unaffected brand.

Set fire to the house and blame them. Good insurance scam.

--
Confucius say: "Man who lives in glass house should change in basement."

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

**** all do in fact.

Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers, diode/cap
input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these things exist.

**** all of those take 4 times the rated load for any
real time at all as far as a breaker is concerned.

Doesn't explain why there has been a big drop in electrical fires.
Corse that may be due to the much better insulation used now.

PVC cable insulation hasn't changed since it was introduced over half a
century ago.

But it was the stuff used before that that was responsible
for the bulk of the electrical fires as it deteriorated with age.

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2014 11:06, Andrew wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless exercise, and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually
more dangerous (under certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they
replaced.

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly plug-in
MCBs

It's not intended to save lives. It's intended to stop the tenants calling
me up in the middle of the night when they blow a fuse.

I agree that an RCD would be good. That's the next change on the list.


Is that as a CU swap or just adding RCD protection to the socket circuits? I
am sure that you are aware that a fusebox to CU swap can in some cases open
a can of worms.

--
Adam

On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 7:42:10 PM UTC+1, Uncle Peter wrote:

3) Tell the tenant that landlords are not nannies and they need to work it out for themselves, then ask if they're going to phone to ask if their milk is still drinkable next, or how to change the baby's nappy.

Not too many landlords are that foolish


NT

On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 7:43:02 PM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

**** all do in fact.

Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers, diode/cap
input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these things exist.

**** all of those take 4 times the rated load for any
real time

Most of the above do

... at all as far as a breaker is concerned.

Breakers are designed specifically to permit it.


Doesn't explain why there has been a big drop in electrical fires.
Corse that may be due to the much better insulation used now.
PVC cable insulation hasn't changed since it was introduced over half a
century ago.

But it was the stuff used before that that was responsible
for the bulk of the electrical fires as it deteriorated with age.

I hope that's correct, I have no data on that point


NT

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 17:10:19 +0100, Dennis@home wrote:

It's not intended to save lives. It's intended to stop the tenants
calling me up in the middle of the night when they blow a fuse.

If something blows a fuse then you need to find out why!

Trouble is the tenant will just rewire the fuse with one of the other
bits of fuse wire on the card until it stops blowing...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a pointless
exercise,

Not pointless in this case. It does serve a useful pupose and the OP is
aware that RCD protection is needed (at least on the sockets IMHO)

and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually more dangerous (under
certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they replaced.

How?

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly plug-in
MCBs

Adding missing earth bonding and RCDs save lives. I have long argued that
even the use of RCD plug in "powerbreakers" have saved many lives and
injuries but these stats are not recorded as the RCD tripped when it is was
supposed to and so it was a non-event ie no-one got an electrical shock and
the RCD was not praised for it's actions.



--
Adam

On 22/10/2014 02:29, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Dave Plowman (News)
escribió:

Never known a breaker blow

http://www.jasper.org.uk/pics/IMG_6149.JPG

About 4 weeks ago.

What made them do that?

And incidentally, you can't blow .jpg images up that much and have them
look OK.

Andy

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

**** all do in fact.

Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers,
diode/cap
input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these things exist.

**** all of those take 4 times the rated load for any real time

Most of the above do

Like hell they do in the sense that they cause the breaker to trip.

... at all as far as a breaker is concerned.

Breakers are designed specifically to permit it.

Duh.

Doesn't explain why there has been a big drop in electrical fires.
Corse that may be due to the much better insulation used now.

PVC cable insulation hasn't changed since it
was introduced over half a century ago.

But it was the stuff used before that that was responsible
for the bulk of the electrical fires as it deteriorated with age.

I hope that's correct,

It is.

I have no data on that point

Its readily available.

On 22/10/2014 20:33, ARW wrote:

Adding missing earth bonding and RCDs save lives. I have long argued
that even the use of RCD plug in "powerbreakers" have saved many lives
and injuries but these stats are not recorded as the RCD tripped when it
is was supposed to and so it was a non-event ie no-one got an electrical
shock and the RCD was not praised for it's actions.




RCD sockets are cheap enough to replace all the sockets in risky places
like kitchens.
Doing them in the consumer unit just protects the cable when it probably
doesn't need it.

"Dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 22/10/2014 20:33, ARW wrote:

Adding missing earth bonding and RCDs save lives. I have long argued
that even the use of RCD plug in "powerbreakers" have saved many lives
and injuries but these stats are not recorded as the RCD tripped when it
is was supposed to and so it was a non-event ie no-one got an electrical
shock and the RCD was not praised for it's actions.




RCD sockets are cheap enough to replace all the sockets in risky places
like kitchens.
Doing them in the consumer unit just protects the cable when it probably
doesn't need it.




The 16th Edition regs only required sockets that could be used to power
outdoor portable equipment to be RCD protected.

The 17th edition regs require the cable (in most cases) to be RCD protected
and all bathroom circuits.

And guess what will happen next. Mantatory testing of RCDs? I have seen
plenty of RCDs fail so what scale will the testing involve and will this
become some sort of regulation from the nanny state?

Call me old fashioned but EEBADs beats ADS any day.

--
Adam

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
I was telling a girl in the pub about my ability to guess what day a woman
was born just by feeling her boobs.
"Really" she said, "Go on then.... try."
After about 30 seconds of fondling she began to lose patience and said,
"Come on, what day was I born?"
I said, "Yesterday."


Pure class.


--
Adam

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:23:30 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 22/10/2014 00:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

Try this as a thought experiment:

Its 11pm, your tenant has just rang to say they turned the hall light
on, and now all the lights have gone out. You have a choice of talking a
technically clueless person through:

1) Finding the circuit breaker with the popped out button, and telling
them to push it

or

2) pulling out a fuse carrier, finding a screwdriver, finding some fuse
wire, get them to work out which is the 5A, now talk them through wiring
the carrier (in the dark), and replacing the fuse.

I would contest that 1 is far simpler for all involved.

I think you have this back to front. The proposition is that (1) is
simpler, you should be asserting it, not contesting it.

I proposed (1) it wasn't simpler, so he was contesting hat I said. What I meant was breakers trip more often than fuses, although they may be quicker to reset.

--
You can get by on good looks and charm for about fifteen minutes.
After that, you'd better have a big dick or nice tits.

On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:11:42 PM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.
**** all do in fact.
Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers,
diode/cap
input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these things exist.
**** all of those take 4 times the rated load for any real time
Most of the above do
Like hell they do in the sense that they cause the breaker to trip.

2 separate things. But keep wasting time. I cba to.


NT

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:42:52 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

**** all do in fact.

Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers, diode/cap
input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these things exist.

**** all of those take 4 times the rated load for any
real time at all as far as a breaker is concerned.

An office of 20 computers kept tripping the breaker where I used to work. It was bloody annoying. They had to carefully plug each one in seperately. It wasn't switching them on that did it, it was plugging them in.

--
Do infants have as much fun in their infancy as adults do in adultery?

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:33:07 +0100, ARW wrote:

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a pointless
exercise,

Not pointless in this case. It does serve a useful pupose and the OP is
aware that RCD protection is needed (at least on the sockets IMHO)

and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually more dangerous (under
certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they replaced.

How?

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly plug-in
MCBs

Adding missing earth bonding and RCDs save lives. I have long argued that
even the use of RCD plug in "powerbreakers" have saved many lives and
injuries but these stats are not recorded as the RCD tripped when it is was
supposed to and so it was a non-event ie no-one got an electrical shock and
the RCD was not praised for it's actions.

Pussy.

--
The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:57:55 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....

Never known a breaker blow.

Pedant, you know what I mean.

It might trip if overloaded, which is its
purpose. As a fuse will blow.

But they're too sensitive to transients like bulk capacitors.

Know which one is more simple to sort,

As fuses don't blow that often, the slight inconvenience of finding a screwdriver isn't that much hassle.

once the cause of the overload is removed.

I've never known the cause stay. Resetting it seems to usually work.

--
Confucius say man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:07:29 +0100, wrote:

On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 7:42:10 PM UTC+1, Uncle Peter wrote:

3) Tell the tenant that landlords are not nannies and they need to work it out for themselves, then ask if they're going to phone to ask if their milk is still drinkable next, or how to change the baby's nappy.

Not too many landlords are that foolish

What? It's not up to a landlord to tell the tenant how to do basic things. If the tenant isn't happy, he can live elsewhere.

--
Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US Treasury.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:49:12 +0100, ARW wrote:

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2014 11:06, Andrew wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless exercise, and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually
more dangerous (under certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they
replaced.

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly plug-in
MCBs

It's not intended to save lives. It's intended to stop the tenants calling
me up in the middle of the night when they blow a fuse.

I agree that an RCD would be good. That's the next change on the list.


Is that as a CU swap or just adding RCD protection to the socket circuits? I
am sure that you are aware that a fusebox to CU swap can in some cases open
a can of worms.

Like?

--
You are the only person I know that has ever had a brain tumour removed from their arse.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:36:08 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:

Tim Streater wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Most people just buy a 6 way strip to sit behind the TV. TV, DVD, etc use
nothing like 13 amps.

I just had the sparks add four double-sockets behind where the TV etc sit.

More fool you.

Then I got rid of the 6 way strip and the adapter. Much tidier.

Much tidier to have the strip inside whatever the
electronics is in and a single lead to the wall socket.

In spades with the computer, its got 3 16 way strips.

What in god's name have you got plugged in there? I've got two monitors, two printers, a computer, an amplifier, a telephone, and a portable hard disk for backup. That's 8 altogether, not 48. Only one going to the socket though, it's all on a 1kW UPS. I'm going to connect the UPS back into the CU to run the lighting soon, in an effort to increase the LED lamp life. Also it means any powercuts will not darken the house (although that's rare).

--
Do you know what a Jewish dilemma is?
Free ham.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 11:18:21 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:

Most people just buy a 6 way strip to sit behind the TV. TV, DVD,
etc use nothing like 13 amps.

I just had the sparks add four double-sockets behind where the TV etc
sit. Then I got rid of the 6 way strip and the adapter. Much tidier.

Have you got OCD?

--
What is the difference between a female jogger and a sewing machine?
A sewing machine only has one bobbin.

"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:23:30 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 22/10/2014 00:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was
horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

Try this as a thought experiment:

Its 11pm, your tenant has just rang to say they turned the hall light
on, and now all the lights have gone out. You have a choice of talking a
technically clueless person through:

1) Finding the circuit breaker with the popped out button, and telling
them to push it

or

2) pulling out a fuse carrier, finding a screwdriver, finding some fuse
wire, get them to work out which is the 5A, now talk them through wiring
the carrier (in the dark), and replacing the fuse.

I would contest that 1 is far simpler for all involved.

I think you have this back to front. The proposition is that (1) is
simpler, you should be asserting it, not contesting it.

I proposed (1) it wasn't simpler, so he was contesting hat I said.

What I meant was breakers trip more often than fuses,

Mine don't and I have had both with everything else the same.

although they may be quicker to reset.

No may be about it, always are in fact.

In spades with technoklutzes.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:11:42 PM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.
**** all do in fact.
Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers,
diode/cap
input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these things
exist.
**** all of those take 4 times the rated load for any real time
Most of the above do
Like hell they do in the sense that they cause the breaker to trip.

2 separate things.

Pity it happened to be what was being discussed
originally when you headed off nit picking.

But keep wasting time. I cba to.

Everyone can see for themselves that that is precisely what you did.

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

**** all do in fact.

Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers,
diode/cap
input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these things exist.

**** all of those take 4 times the rated load for any
real time at all as far as a breaker is concerned.

An office of 20 computers kept tripping the breaker where I used to work.

Never did with mine.

It was bloody annoying. They had to carefully plug each one in
seperately. It wasn't switching them on that did it, it was plugging them
in.

Someone must have ****ed up completely.

Uncle Peter wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Uncle Peter wrote
GB wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a
house I'm letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....

Never known a breaker blow.

Pedant, you know what I mean.

It might trip if overloaded, which
is its purpose. As a fuse will blow.

But they're too sensitive to transients like bulk capacitors.

None of mine have ever been and you don't get bulk
capacitors in the homes being discussed anyway.

Know which one is more simple to sort,

As fuses don't blow that often,

I found them blow just as often as breakers trip,
normally when a PAR38 bulk fails in a particular
way with a short across the active and neutral.

the slight inconvenience of finding
a screwdriver isn't that much hassle.

The problem isnt finding the screwdriver,
its finding the fuse wire.

once the cause of the overload is removed.

I've never known the cause stay.
Resetting it seems to usually work.

Because its usually due to something
like a PAR38 bulb failing like that.

The DEC VT100s were notorious for blowing
their internal fuses too. Just replacing those
always saw the VT100 work fine.

On 22/10/2014 11:29, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:54:30 AM UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

**** all do in fact.

Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers,
diode/cap input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these
things exist.

Indeed, and if the motor is an induction type, then you can have
anything from 5 to 9 times its nominal current drawn at startup.

Just as well your bog standard type B MCB is designed to permit inrush
current of 5 x nominal.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/10/2014 23:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:42:52 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

A lot of things might use 4 times the rated load for a bit.

**** all do in fact.

Quite; motors, filament lights, halogen lighting, transformers,
diode/cap
input PSUs such as computers, wallwarts etc, none of these things exist.

**** all of those take 4 times the rated load for any
real time at all as far as a breaker is concerned.

An office of 20 computers kept tripping the breaker where I used to
work. It was bloody annoying. They had to carefully plug each one in
seperately. It wasn't switching them on that did it, it was plugging
them in.

Which suggests they were tripping a RCD rather than a MCB?

(circuits of IT kit are well known for having high leakage currents)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Uncle Peter wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Tim Streater wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Most people just buy a 6 way strip to sit behind the TV. TV, DVD, etc
use nothing like 13 amps.

I just had the sparks add four double-sockets behind where the TV etc
sit.

More fool you.

Then I got rid of the 6 way strip and the adapter. Much tidier.

Much tidier to have the strip inside whatever the
electronics is in and a single lead to the wall socket.

In spades with the computer, its got 3 16 way strips.

What in god's name have you got plugged in there?

Everything that's involved with the computers and some
other ancillary stuff like the desk lamp etc as well.

I've got two monitors,

I've got 4.

two printers,

Ditto.

a computer,

I've got 3 there.

an amplifier,

Yep.

a telephone,

I've got two of those, one for the Pots line and
one for the voip line and one for the voip ATA.

and a portable hard disk for backup.

I have a decent scanner, countless chargers for all
sorts of things like the cordless mice and 3 mobile
phones, chargers for 4 laptops, charger for the
bluetooth headset, audio mixer that allows me
to have all the audios combined into the amp,
desk lamp, used sockets that I plug a foreign
system into when working on it, couple of hard
drive docking stations, 3 external 2TB hard drives,
power for the mast head amp that feeds the
antenna for the PVR, couple of chargers for
NiMH batterys etc etc etc.

I obviously use a couple of sockets for the other
two plug boards as well.

That's 8 altogether, not 48.

Sure, some of mine are unused, but I do need more than 32.

Only one going to the socket though,

Me too.

it's all on a 1kW UPS.

I don't bother with one of those. I don't
normally get even one mains failure a year.

I'm going to connect the UPS back into the CU to run the lighting soon, in
an effort to increase the LED lamp life.

Its unlikely to do that.

Also it means any powercuts will not darken the house (although that's
rare).

I've got a couple of rechargeable torches
that are plugged into a mains socket all
the time and which come on auto on a
mains failure.

On 22/10/2014 19:42, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 17:59:11 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 22/10/2014 11:06, Andrew wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.
And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless exercise, and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually
more dangerous (under certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they
replaced.

The main reason that rewireables are deprecated for tenanted properties
is that they allow the unskilled and otherwise less caring of the
properties wellbeing alter the rating of the fuses.

From rentals I've seen, changing the fuses is the least of the
landlord's problems. Most rentals need about £2K of doing up after each
tenant moves out (or runs off without paying rent).

Well 2K is better than burning the thing to the ground!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/10/2014 19:42, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:04:30 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 22/10/2014 00:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

Try this as a thought experiment:

Its 11pm, your tenant has just rang to say they turned the hall light
on, and now all the lights have gone out. You have a choice of talking a
technically clueless person through:

1) Finding the circuit breaker with the popped out button, and telling
them to push it

or

2) pulling out a fuse carrier, finding a screwdriver, finding some fuse
wire, get them to work out which is the 5A, now talk them through wiring
the carrier (in the dark), and replacing the fuse.

I would contest that 1 is far simpler for all involved.

3) Tell the tenant that landlords are not nannies and they need to work
it out for themselves, then ask if they're going to phone to ask if
their milk is still drinkable next, or how to change the baby's nappy.

Which results in you the landlord getting a bill for the emergency
electrician the tenant called when they discovered the landlord was
acting like a childish prick.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/10/2014 22:23, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 22/10/2014 00:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

Try this as a thought experiment:

Its 11pm, your tenant has just rang to say they turned the hall light
on, and now all the lights have gone out. You have a choice of talking
a technically clueless person through:

1) Finding the circuit breaker with the popped out button, and telling
them to push it

or

2) pulling out a fuse carrier, finding a screwdriver, finding some
fuse wire, get them to work out which is the 5A, now talk them through
wiring the carrier (in the dark), and replacing the fuse.

I would contest that 1 is far simpler for all involved.

I think you have this back to front. The proposition is that (1) is
simpler, you should be asserting it, not contesting it.

Yes poor choice of word... I would suggest 1 is simpler.

(except for parrot boy of course - but we kind of expect that!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/10/2014 18:39, GB wrote:
On 22/10/2014 18:04, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/10/2014 00:39, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 00:33:04 +0100, GB wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:57, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:49:01 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.

Why is it simpler? Fuses hardly ever blow, unlike some breakers....


See if you can work it out.

It isn't simpler, that's the answer.

Try this as a thought experiment:

Its 11pm, your tenant has just rang to say they turned the hall light
on, and now all the lights have gone out. You have a choice of talking a
technically clueless person through:

1) Finding the circuit breaker with the popped out button, and telling
them to push it

or

2) pulling out a fuse carrier, finding a screwdriver, finding some fuse
wire, get them to work out which is the 5A, now talk them through wiring
the carrier (in the dark), and replacing the fuse.

I would contest that 1 is far simpler for all involved.


My honest opinion is that Uncle Peter cannot be as incredibly stupid as
he makes out.

Indeed that would take a special talent ;-)

He's bored and lonely. So, he sits at home and trolls on
Usenet.

Well it keeps him off the streets.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 23/10/2014 00:28, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:49:12 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2014 11:06, Andrew wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:50, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:49, GB wrote:
On 21/10/2014 23:30, Uncle Peter wrote:

It appears she did. And when I said I had fuses she was horrified.

I've just had some fuses replaced with trip switches on a house I'm
letting out. It makes life an awful lot simpler.


I should have said that the trip switches are just a plug in
replacement, so it's very easy to do.

And any professional sparky reading this will say that this is a
pointless exercise, and in the case of the Wylex variety are actually
more dangerous (under certain conditions) than the rewireable fuse they
replaced.

Upgraded earth bonding and RCD's are what saves lives, not silly
plug-in
MCBs

It's not intended to save lives. It's intended to stop the tenants
calling
me up in the middle of the night when they blow a fuse.

I agree that an RCD would be good. That's the next change on the list.


Is that as a CU swap or just adding RCD protection to the socket
circuits? I
am sure that you are aware that a fusebox to CU swap can in some cases
open
a can of worms.

Like?

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ial _pitfalls


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 22/10/2014 13:33, F Murtz wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:
A woman just told me she had her house rewired because it hadn't
been done for 30 years. Have you ever bothered? I mean if it
works, why not just leave it? Wire doesn't rot.

This one does,
http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/it...l%20Notice.pdf


You have to smile at the mastery of understatement that comes with
instructions like:

"Do not use the cable. Discontinue use immediately and return the
product to the place of purchase for a full refund or replacement. "

Especially if its been chopped into lots of bits, installed and covered
over and to make matters worse you can't easily identify which bits are
this stuff, or another unaffected brand.



A bit more on the subject.

https://www.accc.gov.au/update/infin...sked-questions

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:36:08 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Most people just buy a 6 way strip to sit behind the TV. TV, DVD, etc
use nothing like 13 amps.

I just had the sparks add four double-sockets behind where the TV etc
sit.

More fool you.

Then I got rid of the 6 way strip and the adapter. Much tidier.

Much tidier to have the strip inside whatever the electronics is in and
a single lead to the wall socket.

In spades with the computer, its got 3 16 way strips.

What in god's name have you got plugged in there? I've got two monitors,
two printers, a computer, an amplifier, a telephone, and a portable hard
disk for backup.

3 computers, 2 printers, label printer, monitor, scanner, 1 network router,
1 network hub, 1 printer server, desk lamp, telephone. 12 here.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:36:08 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Most people just buy a 6 way strip to sit behind the TV. TV, DVD, etc
use nothing like 13 amps.

I just had the sparks add four double-sockets behind where the TV etc
sit.

More fool you.

Then I got rid of the 6 way strip and the adapter. Much tidier.

Much tidier to have the strip inside whatever the electronics is in and
a single lead to the wall socket.

In spades with the computer, its got 3 16 way strips.

What in god's name have you got plugged in there? I've got two monitors,
two printers, a computer, an amplifier, a telephone, and a portable hard
disk for backup.

3 computers, 2 printers, label printer, monitor, scanner, 1 network
router,
1 network hub, 1 printer server, desk lamp, telephone. 12 here.

The other thing I forgot to mention is that you can't use all
the sockets on the plug strips because some of the wall warts
are too big to allow the socket next to them to be used by
anything else.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 07:30:06 +0100, charles wrote:

In article , Uncle Peter wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:36:08 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

Tim Streater wrote
Uncle Peter wrote

Most people just buy a 6 way strip to sit behind the TV. TV, DVD,
etc use nothing like 13 amps.

I just had the sparks add four double-sockets behind where the TV
etc sit.

More fool you.

Then I got rid of the 6 way strip and the adapter. Much tidier.

Much tidier to have the strip inside whatever the electronics is in
and a single lead to the wall socket.

In spades with the computer, its got 3 16 way strips.

What in god's name have you got plugged in there? I've got two
monitors,
two printers, a computer, an amplifier, a telephone, and a portable
hard disk for backup.

3 computers, 2 printers, label printer, monitor, scanner, 1 network
router,
1 network hub, 1 printer server, desk lamp, telephone. 12 here.

Think you have problems?

8 computers, 1 telephone, 2 printers, 1 scanner, 2 monitors, 2 switches,
1 router, 1 ATA, 1 PSU for front door control system. And a couple spare
for laptop chargers, battery charger, etc.



--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £30a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor