Hi,

Firstly, before I get shot down by people telling me this is the wrong
group etc, I know ok... Couln't really find an alternative tho, so
sorry...

Right, by dad has a place in the Mayenne region of France which really
needs rewiring - everything needs to be replaced. It is not a very big
place - 3 good sized rooms (kitchen, middle room and attic bedroom) and
a bathroom.

Now, he has had a quote for £3k and I am thinking that this is rather
a lot for the size of the job. He was also told that there is 2 weeks
worth of work. I was therefore wondering if there was anyone out there
who has experience of dealing with French sparkys and whether they do
in fact cost this much?

Cheers

Tim

I rewired my house for a fraction of that sum.
If you have any experience in uk wiring it is not to big a transition
to learn the french system. Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise. I think taking it slowly and carefully
you would do it easy in two weeks and save well over £2k
wrote:
Hi,

Firstly, before I get shot down by people telling me this is the wrong
group etc, I know ok... Couln't really find an alternative tho, so
sorry...

Right, by dad has a place in the Mayenne region of France which really
needs rewiring - everything needs to be replaced. It is not a very big
place - 3 good sized rooms (kitchen, middle room and attic bedroom) and
a bathroom.

Now, he has had a quote for £3k and I am thinking that this is rather
a lot for the size of the job. He was also told that there is 2 weeks
worth of work. I was therefore wondering if there was anyone out there
who has experience of dealing with French sparkys and whether they do
in fact cost this much?

Cheers

Tim

mmzz wrote:
I rewired my house for a fraction of that sum.
If you have any experience in uk wiring it is not to big a transition
to learn the french system. Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise. I think taking it slowly and carefully
you would do it easy in two weeks and save well over £2k

OTOH two weeks with two blokes is easily 2k of labour.

wrote:
Hi,

Firstly, before I get shot down by people telling me this is the wrong
group etc, I know ok... Couln't really find an alternative tho, so
sorry...

Right, by dad has a place in the Mayenne region of France which really
needs rewiring - everything needs to be replaced. It is not a very big
place - 3 good sized rooms (kitchen, middle room and attic bedroom) and
a bathroom.

Now, he has had a quote for £3k and I am thinking that this is rather
a lot for the size of the job. He was also told that there is 2 weeks
worth of work. I was therefore wondering if there was anyone out there
who has experience of dealing with French sparkys and whether they do
in fact cost this much?

Cheers

Tim

Now, he has had a quote for £3k and I am thinking that this is rather
a lot for the size of the job. He was also told that there is 2 weeks
worth of work.

There is more work in a French installation compared to a UK. This is for
several reasons. For example, the lack of ring mains requires the
installation of more socket circuits. Also, due to termites and other
nasties, you can't just lay cables under the floor, they must be protected
in conduit. There is almost certainly an extra 16 layers of bureaucracy
involved, too, all requiring palm crossing.

Christian.

In article ,
"Christian McArdle" writes:
Now, he has had a quote for £3k and I am thinking that this is rather
a lot for the size of the job. He was also told that there is 2 weeks
worth of work.

There is more work in a French installation compared to a UK. This is for
several reasons. For example, the lack of ring mains requires the
installation of more socket circuits. Also, due to termites and other
nasties, you can't just lay cables under the floor, they must be protected
in conduit. There is almost certainly an extra 16 layers of bureaucracy
involved, too, all requiring palm crossing.

You don't imagine for one moment that any french person would
take any notice of things like Part P, do you?

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article . com, mmzz
writes
I rewired my house for a fraction of that sum.
If you have any experience in uk wiring it is not to big a transition
to learn the french system. Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise. I think taking it slowly and carefully
you would do it easy in two weeks and save well over £2k
wrote:
Hi,

Firstly, before I get shot down by people telling me this is the wrong
group etc, I know ok... Couln't really find an alternative tho, so
sorry...

Right, by dad has a place in the Mayenne region of France which really
needs rewiring - everything needs to be replaced. It is not a very big
place - 3 good sized rooms (kitchen, middle room and attic bedroom) and
a bathroom.

Now, he has had a quote for £3k and I am thinking that this is rather
a lot for the size of the job. He was also told that there is 2 weeks
worth of work. I was therefore wondering if there was anyone out there
who has experience of dealing with French sparkys and whether they do
in fact cost this much?

Cheers

Tim

A colleague who has a house in France tells me not to use pull switches
- the French do not understand them and require a standard light switch,
even in the bathroom!
--
John Alexander,

Remove NOSPAM if replying by e-mail

On 2006-09-25 22:07:46 +0100, John said:



A colleague who has a house in France tells me not to use pull switches
- the French do not understand them and require a standard light switch,
even in the bathroom!

In fact the UK is the only place where one sees pull cords for
lightswitches as a standard thing.

Everywhere else there is a switch in the expected position inside the
bathroom door or just outside it in some countries.

Most places have sockets in bathrooms as well, generally quite close to
the basin, and no special types either.

Andy Hall wrote:

In fact the UK is the only place where one sees pull cords for
lightswitches as a standard thing.

Despite the fact that ordinary wall switches have been allowed (in Zone
3 or beyond) for over six years now.

Most places have sockets in bathrooms as well, generally quite close to
the basin, and no special types either.

It's widely rumoured that this will finally be allowed in the UK when
the 17th Edition (BS 7671:2008?) comes into force during 2008. Sockets
to be in Zone 3 or beyond and 30 mA RCD protected.

--
Andy

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:54:39 +0100 someone who may be Andy Wade
wrote this:-

Despite the fact that ordinary wall switches have been allowed (in Zone
3 or beyond) for over six years now.

They were allowed before then, provided that the switch was not
accessible to someone using the bath or shower.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The message
from Andy Wade contains these words:

In fact the UK is the only place where one sees pull cords for
lightswitches as a standard thing.

Despite the fact that ordinary wall switches have been allowed (in Zone
3 or beyond) for over six years now.

It's a habit thing, innit. Anyway, the customers expect pullcords, so
what's what they get. I rather like them, though I restrain the bottom
end of the string so you pull sideways instead. It's easier to do and
uses less force, which is handy if you've got smalls in the house.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

David Hansen wrote:

They were allowed before then, provided that the switch was not
accessible to someone using the bath or shower.

You're quite right, I'd forgotten that.

--
Andy

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:18:44 +0100 someone who may be Andy Wade
wrote this:-

They were allowed before then, provided that the switch was not
accessible to someone using the bath or shower.

You're quite right, I'd forgotten that.

It always used to horrify some people when they saw plate switches
in bathrooms. Others still get upset at non-isolated shaver sockets
in rooms that only contain a basin and toilet.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

It always used to horrify some people when they saw plate switches
in bathrooms. Others still get upset at non-isolated shaver sockets
in rooms that only contain a basin and toilet.

On a similar note, I've met several people that are uncomfortable about
a switched socket left switched on with nothing plugged in. They will
go round the room checking them all.

Some people seem to overly absorb the "electricity - dangerous!"
message as a child, fearing walking close to a consumer unit etc.

Daft it may be, but if it affects a sale...

The message .com
from " contains these words:

On a similar note, I've met several people that are uncomfortable about
a switched socket left switched on with nothing plugged in. They will
go round the room checking them all.

What about those stupid "Child safety" covers for sockets? They're a
right royal pain in the arse and as far as I can see don't actually
acheive anything. If there were really a problem then the BS would have
been changed to something safer.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

What about those stupid "Child safety" covers for sockets? They're a
right royal pain in the arse and as far as I can see don't actually
acheive anything. If there were really a problem then the BS would have
been changed to something safer.

Probably of value if you have old 1960's unshuttered sockets.

The message . com
from " contains these words:

What about those stupid "Child safety" covers for sockets? They're a
right royal pain in the arse and as far as I can see don't actually
acheive anything. If there were really a problem then the BS would have
been changed to something safer.

Probably of value if you have old 1960's unshuttered sockets.

Wonder how many of them there are left. We've a brand new building up
the road - and it's full of these stupid little covers.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Guy King wrote:

The message .com
from " contains these words:

On a similar note, I've met several people that are uncomfortable about
a switched socket left switched on with nothing plugged in. They will
go round the room checking them all.

What about those stupid "Child safety" covers for sockets? They're a
right royal pain in the arse and as far as I can see don't actually
acheive anything. If there were really a problem then the BS would have
been changed to something safer.

All depends on how you assess risk doesn't it? Electrocution through
inquisitive sticking of implements into sockets or even plugs with
fingers wrapped round the back probably has a very low likelihood, with
very severe consequences. When you can eliminate that likelihood
altogether through a one of cost of under a fiver I personally think
it's worth doing.

--
Steve F

All depends on how you assess risk doesn't it? Electrocution through
inquisitive sticking of implements into sockets or even plugs with
fingers wrapped round the back probably has a very low likelihood, with
very severe consequences. When you can eliminate that likelihood
altogether through a one of cost of under a fiver I personally think
it's worth doing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-risk_bias

In article . com, mmzz
writes

Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise.

Why?
--
Mr X

Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise.

Why?

Because it will make the house difficult to sell.

Christian.

The message
from Mr X contains these words:

Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise.

Why?

Well, for a start, using UK standard mains plugs will be a right royal
pain in the arse.
IIRC French mains wiring has the earth ready-sheathed, instead of bare
like ours - so no sleeving. I don't think ours complies with their
standards.


--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

On 2006-09-26, wrote:

On a similar note, I've met several people that are uncomfortable about
a switched socket left switched on with nothing plugged in. They will
go round the room checking them all.

Some people seem to overly absorb the "electricity - dangerous!"
message as a child, fearing walking close to a consumer unit etc.

Daft it may be, but if it affects a sale...

James Thurber's story "The Car We Had to Push" mentions an aunt (I
think) who worried about electricity leaking out of fixtures and
sockets that didn't have lamps or plugs in them. It includes a funny
cartoon of her looking at a light fitting for leaks.

"John" wrote in message
...
In article . com, mmzz
writes
I rewired my house for a fraction of that sum.
If you have any experience in uk wiring it is not to big a transition
to learn the french system. Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise. I think taking it slowly and carefully
you would do it easy in two weeks and save well over £2k
wrote:
Hi,

Firstly, before I get shot down by people telling me this is the wrong
group etc, I know ok... Couln't really find an alternative tho, so
sorry...

Right, by dad has a place in the Mayenne region of France which really
needs rewiring - everything needs to be replaced. It is not a very big
place - 3 good sized rooms (kitchen, middle room and attic bedroom) and
a bathroom.

Now, he has had a quote for £3k and I am thinking that this is rather
a lot for the size of the job. He was also told that there is 2 weeks
worth of work. I was therefore wondering if there was anyone out there
who has experience of dealing with French sparkys and whether they do
in fact cost this much?

Cheers

Tim

A colleague who has a house in France tells me not to use pull switches
- the French do not understand them and require a standard light switch,
even in the bathroom!

...and sockets over the basin too.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.. .
Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise.

Why?

Because it will make the house difficult to sell.

Christian.

The UK system relies on the appliance plug having a fuse in the plug.
Without this the system does perform in design safety. The French do not
have fused plugs. They have radial systems as opposed to ring system.

The message
from Adam Funk contains these words:

James Thurber's story "The Car We Had to Push" mentions an aunt (I
think) who worried about electricity leaking out of fixtures and
sockets that didn't have lamps or plugs in them. It includes a funny
cartoon of her looking at a light fitting for leaks.

My grandma used to put Sellotape over the holes in unused sockets.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

In article , Christian
McArdle writes

Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise.

Why?

Because it will make the house difficult to sell.

Christian.

Thanks. To a Frenchman, I'm sure. What about an English buyer?
--
Mr X

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:01:37 +0100, Adam Funk wrote:

James Thurber's story "The Car We Had to Push" mentions an aunt (I
think) who worried about electricity leaking out of fixtures and
sockets that didn't have lamps or plugs in them. It includes a funny
cartoon of her looking at a light fitting for leaks.

Someone's mother, but not his is how I recall it, in "My Life and Hard
Times".

http://standby.lbl.gov/Humor.html

IIRC that's the same story where his uncle dies of the disease that was
killing the elm trees.

"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
....
James Thurber's story "The Car We Had to Push" mentions an aunt (I
think) who worried about electricity leaking out of fixtures and
sockets that didn't have lamps or plugs in them. It includes a funny
cartoon of her looking at a light fitting for leaks.

That was not an uncommon attitude among those who grew up with gas lighting.
My grandmother was one of them.

Colin Bignell

"Mr X" wrote in message
...
In article , Christian
McArdle writes

Use french equipement and do not be tempted
to follow uk wiring practise.

Why?

Because it will make the house difficult to sell.

Christian.

Thanks. To a Frenchman, I'm sure. What about an English buyer?

Why reduce your potential market? Admittedly, if it is a crumbling heap, the
main market will be British buyers, who are generally perceived as wanting
'character' buildings, while the French prefer something modern and
comfortable, but that does not mean no French will look at it.

Colin Bignell

IIRC French mains wiring has the earth ready-sheathed, instead of bare
like ours - so no sleeving. I don't think ours complies with their
standards.

That doesn't matter. You are entitled to use UK wiring practice when
installing in France. However, it is not advisable.

Christian.

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:44:13 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

You are entitled to use UK wiring practice when
installing in France. However, it is not advisable.


Can the local electricity provider refuse to supply, if the wiring
does not meet national specifications?

Pete

--
.................................................. .........................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

In article , Christian
McArdle writes

IIRC French mains wiring has the earth ready-sheathed, instead of bare
like ours - so no sleeving. I don't think ours complies with their
standards.

That doesn't matter. You are entitled to use UK wiring practice when
installing in France.

Which, along with a number of other UK practices seems to be of a higher
standard than the French.
--
Mr X

In article , Peter Lynch
writes

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:44:13 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

You are entitled to use UK wiring practice when
installing in France. However, it is not advisable.

Can the local electricity provider refuse to supply, if the wiring
does not meet national specifications?

They are not interested.

I recently had a 30A mono-phase supply installed in a French property
and took a 12-way slit-load CU from Screwfix as I thought the installers
would only connect their supply tails to a CE-approved CU

They said they didn't care what I put on the end of their cable and that
they would leave it with a "termination" connected.

And what was the "termination"?

2 ways of a 30A "chocolate block" connector!
--
Mr X

In article ,
Peter Lynch writes:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:44:13 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

You are entitled to use UK wiring practice when
installing in France. However, it is not advisable.

Can the local electricity provider refuse to supply, if the wiring
does not meet national specifications?

Friend of a friend wired his french holiday house completely to UK
regs. French supplier (EDF) was perfectly happy to connect it up,
and had seen it done before, much to his surprise. Ironically they
had previously refused to connect up the supply to the french
wiring which was there when he bought it, although it was in a bad
state.

I have heard that you can pick any of the national standards from
countries who's standards are aligned with CENELEC Harmonised
Documents (of which the UK is one) and use them in any EU country,
but I have no reference for that.

--
Andrew Gabriel

EDF will usually distinguish between properties that have electricity
to them already and those which have not. If it has not had a supply
before they will ask for a certificate of conformity that the property
confirms to French wiring pratice which has to be signed by a qualified
French electrician. However :-

1. they don't always do it
2. You can get electricians to come and "inspect" your installation
3. Something which had an electricity supply in 1920 can still count as
having had a supply

Things are tightening up though and there have been quite a few new
regulations coming into force over recent years.

As personal preference I prefer (many don't) the French radial wiring
system despite the increase in wire required as it makes sure everthing
is protected at a central board making it very easy to find faults and
you never have a "where are the spare fuses" moment. It also lends
itself to computer controlled automation very easily (I usually run a
cat5 cable to each socket/switch "just in case"). However I have yet to
find decently made French plugs/sockets which can frequently require
the application of a hammer to get the plug in. One of the benefits of
a movable earth shield and decent manufacturer e.g. MK.


Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Peter Lynch writes:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:44:13 +0100, Christian McArdle wrote:

You are entitled to use UK wiring practice when
installing in France. However, it is not advisable.

Can the local electricity provider refuse to supply, if the wiring
does not meet national specifications?

Friend of a friend wired his french holiday house completely to UK
regs. French supplier (EDF) was perfectly happy to connect it up,
and had seen it done before, much to his surprise. Ironically they
had previously refused to connect up the supply to the french
wiring which was there when he bought it, although it was in a bad
state.

I have heard that you can pick any of the national standards from
countries who's standards are aligned with CENELEC Harmonised
Documents (of which the UK is one) and use them in any EU country,
but I have no reference for that.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 26 Sep 2006 06:28:02 -0700 someone who may be "Fitz"
wrote this:-

What about those stupid "Child safety" covers for sockets? They're a
right royal pain in the arse and as far as I can see don't actually
acheive anything. If there were really a problem then the BS would have
been changed to something safer.

All depends on how you assess risk doesn't it? Electrocution through
inquisitive sticking of implements into sockets or even plugs with
fingers wrapped round the back probably has a very low likelihood, with
very severe consequences. When you can eliminate that likelihood
altogether through a one of cost of under a fiver I personally think
it's worth doing.

Sticking implements into UK domestic sockets is very hard for a
child to do, whether the shutters are operated by the earth contact
or just the live and neutral pins. Thus the "Child safety" cover is
doing little or nothing for safety.

Inserting a plug with fingers wrapped around involves removing the
"Child safety" cover first. Thus it is doing nothing for safety.

A very long time ago a member of my family did experiment with
putting knitting needle into an unshuttered socket. He didn't do it
again.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The message .com
from "Fitz" contains these words:

All depends on how you assess risk doesn't it? Electrocution through
inquisitive sticking of implements into sockets or even plugs with
fingers wrapped round the back probably has a very low likelihood, with
very severe consequences. When you can eliminate that likelihood
altogether through a one of cost of under a fiver I personally think
it's worth doing.

Eh? For a start, all UK plugs have had sleeved pins for many years, so
you can't reach round the back and actually touch live metal because by
the time it's exposed it's no longer connected. Except the earth pin, of
course.

Secondly, if there's a plug in there, then perforce there isn't a socket
cover in there. Socket covers are about empty sockets, not sockets with
plugs in.

Thirdly all sockets are shuttered. I defy you to find one that isn't.

Fourthly, in the vanishingly unlikely event of some little sprog
managing it the RCD will ensure they only get a belt strong enough to
scare the living daylights out of them rather than kill them. It worked
for me when I was about five. Except that was a table-lamp.

They're a gizmo sold by profiteering safety types who prey on the
insecurities of parents and the paranoia of safety departments who
insist on them for no good reason. I've had a good look over the years
and have never found any evidence of accidents happening which would
have been prevented by socket covers.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I'll a) be amazed, and b) have to
buy a hat to eat.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

In article ,
Guy King writes:
The message . com
from " contains these words:

What about those stupid "Child safety" covers for sockets? They're a
right royal pain in the arse and as far as I can see don't actually
acheive anything. If there were really a problem then the BS would have
been changed to something safer.

Probably of value if you have old 1960's unshuttered sockets.

Wonder how many of them there are left. We've a brand new building up
the road - and it's full of these stupid little covers.

None - 13A sockets have been shuttered since their inception.
Round pin sockets were shuttered later (and still don't have
to be, except in homes), but I don't think that's what's being
referred to here.

--
Andrew Gabriel

The message
from (Andrew Gabriel) contains these words:

Wonder how many of them there are left. We've a brand new building up
the road - and it's full of these stupid little covers.

None - 13A sockets have been shuttered since their inception.

You abolutely certain about that? We only had "square" pin sockets in
our house as a kid and I remember pointing out to Dad one that didn't
have a shutter and the two of us changing it.
Perhaps it had had one but had broken. I was only about five.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"Guy King" wrote in message
...

snip sensible stuff

Fourthly, in the vanishingly unlikely event of some little sprog
managing it the RCD will ensure they only get a belt strong enough to
scare the living daylights out of them rather than kill them. It worked
for me when I was about five. Except that was a table-lamp.

Haven't we all?

I'm glad that you and I lived to tell the tale but there are many little
blighters I'd willingly attach to a power source.

They're a gizmo sold by profiteering safety types who prey on the
insecurities of parents and the paranoia of safety departments who
insist on them for no good reason. I've had a good look over the years
and have never found any evidence of accidents happening which would
have been prevented by socket covers.

Indeed. Modern parents are easily influenced.

Mary