On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:01:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to tell
all here ! :-)

Thanks. I learned something new.

Do you still have the bad magenta 02 cartridge? If so, try an
ohmmeter test on the contacts. I'm curious if the cart can be tested.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:15:05 -0400, Michael Black wrote:

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with
someone's music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I
assumed, precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be
something wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed
it.

Is there a newer/better model.

I suppose so, but that generation iPod gives more storage than later ones.
And I see people selling them used, and still hoping to get some
significant money for them.

The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.

I always figure that so long as someone else is paying for the stuff new,
there's nothing wrong with me having a gadget habit. I didn't need a GPS,
but since I could buy one at a garage sale for five dollars, I might as
well.

Michael

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, tony sayer wrote:

In article ple.org,
Michael Black scribeth thus
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.

I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
then backed out.

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.

Michael

Never mind that .. did you find and Naked selfies;?...

No, there were no photos or video on it. I did indeed check.

Michael

"Jabba" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...
Arfa Daily scribbled...



Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
tell
all here ! :-)


As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
first.


Well, hindsight is, as we all know, a wonderful thing. But be honest here,
would you really have immediately thought of a single faulty cartridge out
of an array of 6, to cause the printer to fail to recognise that *any*
cartridges were in place ? Also given the fact that it is never turned off,
was used the day before, and the offending cartridge had been in place for
some weeks ? Jeff L thought that it was an unusual problem that he wouldn't
have thought of, and he repairs printers all the time ... :-)

Arfa

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one
by
one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the
very
last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
was still ok.

So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
wire
bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to
read
them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta
cartridge,
must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor
issues
the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
the
bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Arfa


Vairy interesting..

One wonders if there was One naff cap, then what others are lurking?..


I ESR'd all the rest, and they were all good ...

Arfa



Tony Sayer

William Sommerwerck wrote
Jeff Liebermann wrote

Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
even though the cartridge is full.

I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive
government. And this is one of those case where it's needed.

No it is not.

There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise --
specifically, how long products should last. * This would do a
great deal to reduce waste and short-term "techno-churn".

No it would not. You're never going to stop very cheap junk being
bought by consumers now that ebay and amazon make it so easy.

(Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy consumer product.

I don't agree that they are a lousy consumer product. They
are in fact fantastically cheap, particularly when you arent
stupid enough to use the manufacturers' expensive ink.

The price of laser printers so low now that almost
anyone can afford one. I don't use them myself,
because I print so rarely that I just need something
dirt cheap and prefer the color for what I do print.

Toasters are generally junk.

True, but I fix that by getting them at garage/yard sales for $2

And let's not talk about shoe laces.)

I don't bother with laced shoes or boots.

The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers
me -- yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed.

And it wouldn't work anyway.

Businesses should care enough about quality to make
"sturdy" products without having to be forced to do so.

And they do with some stuff like cars and cutlery etc and
with the modern stainless steel stuff that has replaced the
older tin plate stuff that never lasted anything like as long.

And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing
got outsourced to China -- that they did so.

They still do.

The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.

That is nothing like a solution. They would just be ignored.

* Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied
merchantability requires products to be of average for their type.

That mangles the law.

Of course, when every product in a category is junk,

That's never the case.

the average sinks to a very low level.

I've just recently seen the junk problem with leather
belts, the sort you use to stop your pants falling down.
Plenty to buy for peanuts, but they were all composite
leather which never last long, the belt comes apart into
the components in less than a year or so. Just found
someone who still makes them out of sheets of well
tanned leather, the older traditional single piece of
leather. Not clear why the stuff from china is composite
leather, you'd think that that would cost more to make
even with the low labor costs in china etc.

I'm not convinced that govt regulation
could do anything about leather belts.

Jabba wrote
Arfa Daily wrote

Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
tell
all here ! :-)

As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
first.

Easy to be wise after the event. You wouldn't normally expect it to
be the carts when the printer claims they have all gone bad at once.

Corse like with all faults like that, you kick yourself when you know what
the problem is.

William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

And even if you don't want color, they are still much cheaper
than any alternative if you don't print much but do print a bit.

wrote

I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,

I do, with the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't have chipped carts.

so have given up on them and pay through the nose for genuine
ones now. If I had a lot to print I would buy a mono laser.

I wouldn't, because I prefer the color at times.

And they can't print on CD/DVDs either.

Fredxxx wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

Mine arent.

Arfa Daily scribbled...




As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
first.


Well, hindsight is, as we all know, a wonderful thing. But be honest here,
would you really have immediately thought of a single faulty cartridge out
of an array of 6, to cause the printer to fail to recognise that *any*
cartridges were in place ? Also given the fact that it is never turned off,
was used the day before, and the offending cartridge had been in place for
some weeks ? Jeff L thought that it was an unusual problem that he wouldn't
have thought of, and he repairs printers all the time ... :-)


I've learned to look at the simple stuff first - electrical fault - is
it plugged in, batteries flat, etc, etc.

Jabba wrote
wrote

I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,
so have given up on them and pay through the nose for genuine
ones now. If I had a lot to print I would buy a mono laser.

If you're only printing occasionally, a laser is still better value.

Like hell it is.

The 'ink' doesn't dry out or run out of date.

My ink never dries out or ever runs out of date either.

And I can print on CDs and DVDs too.

On 14/07/2014 11:22 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks
if you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been
using cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most
recent ones I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even
see how much ink is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges,
and the chip on them says so correctly. I have never had a problem with
the printer failing to recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of
the correct colour, and the usage indicator seems to remain accurate.

So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The
following ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all
six of them, then ...

Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the
main board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I
checked its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one
in, expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(

A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about
this one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these
HPs also, and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and
asked if he happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he
takes them back to Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came
over today with a bag of them, so I started by taking all of my
cartridges out. As expected, it told me that all of the cartridges were
missing, so I put in an empty colour one and restarted it. This time, it
told me that only five were missing, and the one that I had just put in
was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.

One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read
the cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So
one by one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok,
until the very last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that
all six cartridges were missing. I went and got another from my stock
and put it in, and all was still ok.

So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
wire bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the
processor to read them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty
dark magenta cartridge, must have a short on one of the bus lines so
that when the processor issues the addresses in sequence to read each
cartridge at boot up, none of them are able to reply so the machine
assumes that they are not present.

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Arfa

**I hat ink jet printers. Although I've been using a laser printer since
1988, there have been times when I purchased an ink jet (usually because
I wanted to print photos or something similar). I've always been sorry.
Anyway, a few years back, I decided to change my thermal fax machine for
an HP inkjet. I quickly tired of paying nonsensically high prices for
black cartridges, I purchased one of those ink jet refiller kits. I
figured I'd refill the cartridge in the lounge room one evening (100%
wool, Berber carpet). At the last moment, I decided that SWMBO might
kill me if I spilt the ink, so I did the job in the workshop. Part of
the job called for pressurising the cartridge after re-filling. I
dtifully pumped air into the cartridge. No print. I pumped a little more
air in. No pump. I pumped a little more air in and BANG. Ink went
everywhere. It's been ten years and I am still finding ink in places I
never expected.

I hate ink jet printers.



--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

Jeff Liebermann wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Is $150 too much for your budget?

Yep, lousy value. I got the last Canon inkjet for $5 at a garage sale, works
fine.

http://www.brothermall.com/Printers/Model/HL3070CW/Refurbished#.U8QQLUC9Y0o
Not the best color laser printer on the planet, but quite cheap.
Figure on about $70 for a set of 4 replacement clone carts on eBay, or
about $200 for brand new retail. The color carts are good for about 1400
pages:
$70 / 1400 = $0.05/page
(I refill my own color carts, which costs me about $32 to refill 4 carts).

A similar ink spraying printer might cost $30 for a set of carts,

Nothing like that for non genuine carts that work fine.

and optimistically print 500 pages (usually less).
$30 / 500 = $0.06/page

In other words, the cost of ink/toner is slightly cheaper for the
color laser printer, if you use refilled and clone carts and toner.

But you have to use the same carts in the inkjet to compare.

On 14/07/14 21:17, Jabba wrote:
Arfa Daily scribbled...




As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
first.


Well, hindsight is, as we all know, a wonderful thing. But be honest here,
would you really have immediately thought of a single faulty cartridge out
of an array of 6, to cause the printer to fail to recognise that *any*
cartridges were in place ? Also given the fact that it is never turned off,
was used the day before, and the offending cartridge had been in place for
some weeks ? Jeff L thought that it was an unusual problem that he wouldn't
have thought of, and he repairs printers all the time ... :-)


I've learned to look at the simple stuff first - electrical fault - is
it plugged in, batteries flat, etc, etc.



Note to self/ When Linux desktop freezes, its not a software problem.
It's the notebook wedged on top of the escape key.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 14/07/2014 22:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Note to self/ When Linux desktop freezes, its not a software problem.
It's the notebook wedged on top of the escape key.

I have had numerous similar situations, when remotely connected to
various computers. Makes diagnosis very much more difficult than looking
at what might be lying on the keyboard. :-)

--
Rod

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...
On 14/07/2014 11:22 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks
if you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been
using cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most
recent ones I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even
see how much ink is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges,
and the chip on them says so correctly. I have never had a problem with
the printer failing to recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of
the correct colour, and the usage indicator seems to remain accurate.

So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The
following ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all
six of them, then ...

Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the
main board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I
checked its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one
in, expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(

A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about
this one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these
HPs also, and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and
asked if he happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he
takes them back to Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came
over today with a bag of them, so I started by taking all of my
cartridges out. As expected, it told me that all of the cartridges were
missing, so I put in an empty colour one and restarted it. This time, it
told me that only five were missing, and the one that I had just put in
was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.

One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read
the cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So
one by one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok,
until the very last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that
all six cartridges were missing. I went and got another from my stock
and put it in, and all was still ok.

So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
wire bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the
processor to read them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty
dark magenta cartridge, must have a short on one of the bus lines so
that when the processor issues the addresses in sequence to read each
cartridge at boot up, none of them are able to reply so the machine
assumes that they are not present.

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Arfa

**I hat ink jet printers. Although I've been using a laser printer since
1988, there have been times when I purchased an ink jet (usually because I
wanted to print photos or something similar). I've always been sorry.
Anyway, a few years back, I decided to change my thermal fax machine for
an HP inkjet. I quickly tired of paying nonsensically high prices for
black cartridges, I purchased one of those ink jet refiller kits. I
figured I'd refill the cartridge in the lounge room one evening (100%
wool, Berber carpet). At the last moment, I decided that SWMBO might kill
me if I spilt the ink, so I did the job in the workshop. Part of the job
called for pressurising the cartridge after re-filling. I dtifully pumped
air into the cartridge. No print. I pumped a little more air in. No pump.
I pumped a little more air in and BANG. Ink went everywhere. It's been ten
years and I am still finding ink in places I never expected.

I hate ink jet printers.

I got the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't use chipped carts,
use non genuine carts from ebay and it worked fine for years and
years.

In article ,
says...

[snip]

Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
on a bus between all 6 carts.


Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Fredxxx wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost of
replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

Mine arent.

I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of the HPs that
I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the level of
use and abuse that they get. The only ones that have given me grief, are a
couple of Epsons, which were the worst pieces of **** that I have ever
owned. The problem that I detailed with my current HP, isn't actually a
problem with the printer itself either.

Arfa

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:01:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
tell
all here ! :-)

Thanks. I learned something new.

Do you still have the bad magenta 02 cartridge? If so, try an
ohmmeter test on the contacts. I'm curious if the cart can be tested.

--
Jeff Liebermann

I do, and I'll see what can be read across the contacts. Since we decided
what the contacts might be, I've had another little think about that, and
have now decided that it's not piezo drive on two of them, because these are
HP cartridges without the heads built in. Straight vanilla ink only. So how
about supply, ground, and two-wire bus ?

Arfa

"Randy Day" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

[snip]

Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
on a bus between all 6 carts.


Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.


No piezo on these cartridges, so Vcc, Gnd and I2C ??

Arfa

**I hat ink jet printers. Although I've been using a laser printer since
1988, there have been times when I purchased an ink jet (usually because I
wanted to print photos or something similar). I've always been sorry.
Anyway, a few years back, I decided to change my thermal fax machine for
an HP inkjet. I quickly tired of paying nonsensically high prices for
black cartridges, I purchased one of those ink jet refiller kits. I
figured I'd refill the cartridge in the lounge room one evening (100%
wool, Berber carpet). At the last moment, I decided that SWMBO might kill
me if I spilt the ink, so I did the job in the workshop. Part of the job
called for pressurising the cartridge after re-filling. I dtifully pumped
air into the cartridge. No print. I pumped a little more air in. No pump.
I pumped a little more air in and BANG. Ink went everywhere. It's been ten
years and I am still finding ink in places I never expected.

I hate ink jet printers.



--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

That's a sad story Trevor. To be honest, I can buy Chinese cartridges for
this HP so cheap that it's not worth arsing about doing re-fills.

While you're on, don't suppose you've got a schematic for a Mackie SRM1801
sub have you ? Have combed the net, but nothing lodged with any of the usual
suspects. It has a permanent overload LED, although it seems to be an
indicational problem as otherwise, it works just fine.

Arfa

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:42:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 14/07/14 17:25, Jethro_uk wrote:
The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.

Similar here. Got a laptop that was 'making a funny noise'

Had been dropped and CPU fan was rubbing..30 seconds to 'fix'

Presumably a recent model with an SSD then?
--
J B Good

In article ,
says...

[snip]

Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.


No piezo on these cartridges, so Vcc, Gnd and I2C ??

Yes.

We can't rule out a proprietary setup, but I2C
is a strong possibility; it's built into a lot
of off-the-shelf microcontrollers, and only
needs 2 external resistors to operate.

We can't assume that the Vcc going to the
cartridges is used as Vcc for the I2C lines;
you'd have to measure the voltages on each
line.

I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
ENTIRELY to you!

Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

Mine arent.

I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of
the HPs that I've owned over the years have been remarkably
reliable given the level of use and abuse that they get.

I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had
the one failure just recently, of the main logic card.

Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now,
all with some sort of electronics failure.

I do know of a few that have ended up with a clogged
print head with other brands and found it unviable to
replace it and have just bought a new one.

The only ones that have given me grief, are
a couple of Epsons, which were the worst
pieces of **** that I have ever owned.

Yeah, I have heard that about them too.
No one I know has ever had one tho.

The problem that I detailed with my current HP,
isn't actually a problem with the printer itself either.

True. I've been meaning to google your fault
but haven't got around to doing that yet.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 02:07:44 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

I'm still thinking two-wire bus - see my reply to your post above
Arfa

You're probably right. There are no piezo driver wires, as I
originally thought because the head is not part of the ink cart.
(Sorry, I guessed wrong in a previous message). So, that leaves
power, ground, and two wires for data. I don't have a protocol
analyzer (that works) but can look at the bus with a scope. The ink
carts are not moving, so that should be easy. Probably I2C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2C

http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/bus-pirate
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9544
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 15/07/2014 03:42, Randy Day wrote:

8

I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
ENTIRELY to you!


One end of the cable doesn't move. 8-)

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost of
replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

Mine arent.

I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of the HPs that
I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the level
of use and abuse that they get.

I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had the one failure just
recently, of the main logic card.
Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now, all with some sort of electronics
failure.

I've had 2 printers in my lifetime

what do you guys do to get through so many?

tim

On 15/07/14 09:29, tim..... wrote:
I've had 2 printers in my lifetime

what do you guys do to get through so many?

Printer 1. Struck by lightning* and repaired under 'warranty' since
repairing it cost more than a new printer.

Printer 1a; died when cat urinated into it.

Printer 2 bought off ebay to directly replace it. Now retired..

Printer 3 bought to draw house plans on - A1 inkjet. Now on permanent
loan to someone who needs it.

Printer 4 Color laserjet bought to do A4 colour proofing. Replaced
Printer 2.

*overhead phone line: direct strike. Phone connected to modem connected
to serial parallel card connected to printer.

Computer survived, card, modem and printer did not. Ancient Ex rental TV
BER as well but managed to get v expensive parallel tracking record deck
repaired. Everything else survived apart from sockets blown out of walls
and some mains wire arcing to ground.


House rewired at insistence of insurance company.



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

tim..... wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

Mine arent.

I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of
the HPs that I've owned over the years have been remarkably
reliable given the level of use and abuse that they get.

I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had
the one failure just recently, of the main logic card.

Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now,
all with some sort of electronics failure.

I've had 2 printers in my lifetime

Yebbut, your lifetime is a hell of a lot shorter than some of ours.

what do you guys do to get through so many?

With most of them the technology moved on.

The first of them that I personally owned, an LA180 was as big
as a washing machine and I could barely put one in the back
of a Golf alone, and I was completely stupid to have done that.

That was replaced by a much smaller dot matrix printer
that I only stopped using when I got the first inkjet printer
that produced a much better result and cost peanuts.

I stopped using that when PCs no longer supported the interface.

I replaced that with a decent USB inkjet and had that
work fine for years. Its just had an electronics card failure
and since I had picked up a spare at a garage sale for just
$5 it wasn't worth even changing a failed cap. It's the only
one that has actually died rather than become obsolete.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 10:48:06 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Note to self/ When Linux desktop freezes, its not a software problem.
It's the notebook wedged on top of the escape key.

When clicking does multiple-select lots of things, it's a ringbinder on top of the control key.

When there are lots of superfluous spaces in the typing, the large-chested secretary needs to sit further back from the keyboard

Owain

"Randy Day" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

[snip]

Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.


No piezo on these cartridges, so Vcc, Gnd and I2C ??

Yes.

We can't rule out a proprietary setup, but I2C
is a strong possibility; it's built into a lot
of off-the-shelf microcontrollers, and only
needs 2 external resistors to operate.

We can't assume that the Vcc going to the
cartridges is used as Vcc for the I2C lines;
you'd have to measure the voltages on each
line.


I'm assuming that the 'chip' on each cartridge is a simple dedicated
microcontroller, so some level of Vcc would be required to run that, and it
would make sense to design the chip to run off a rail that would provide
suitable levels for the bus signals as well



I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
ENTIRELY to you!


And I, in turn, leave this to Jeff L who has these things piled high
(literally !) at his place ... :-)

Arfa

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 15/07/14 09:29, tim..... wrote:
I've had 2 printers in my lifetime

what do you guys do to get through so many?

Printer 1. Struck by lightning* and repaired under 'warranty' since
repairing it cost more than a new printer.

Printer 1a; died when cat urinated into it.

Printer 2 bought off ebay to directly replace it. Now retired..

Printer 3 bought to draw house plans on - A1 inkjet. Now on permanent
loan to someone who needs it.

Printer 4 Color laserjet bought to do A4 colour proofing. Replaced
Printer 2.

*overhead phone line: direct strike. Phone connected to modem connected
to serial parallel card connected to printer.

Computer survived, card, modem and printer did not. Ancient Ex rental TV
BER as well but managed to get v expensive parallel tracking record deck
repaired. Everything else survived apart from sockets blown out of walls
and some mains wire arcing to ground.


House rewired at insistence of insurance company.



Did they fork out for a lightning conductor system as well;?....

--
Tony Sayer

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
wrote
I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,

I do, with the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't have chipped carts.

I do too. The cheapos that I use have four times the capacity of the
genuines. The print quality and colours are as good also. I doubt that the
ink is quite as 'stable' on photo paper and exposed to sunlight, but for
'regular' paper printing, it's just fine long term. I have printed many
photos using these inks in situations where they are not exposed to sunlight
all the time, and they have been perfectly ok at the time of printing, and
have remained so. I have been using these cartridges for probably three
years now, and this Magenta one is the very first that I have had a problem
with. Even that is a random chance electronic problem, rather than
mechanical or ink related. I reported the symptoms here merely for interest
and to help others who may find themselves in this situation, as of course,
the chip on a genuine HP cartridge could just as easily fail in exactly the
same way ...

Arfa

On 15/07/14 12:02, tony sayer wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 15/07/14 09:29, tim..... wrote:
I've had 2 printers in my lifetime

what do you guys do to get through so many?

Printer 1. Struck by lightning* and repaired under 'warranty' since
repairing it cost more than a new printer.

Printer 1a; died when cat urinated into it.

Printer 2 bought off ebay to directly replace it. Now retired..

Printer 3 bought to draw house plans on - A1 inkjet. Now on permanent
loan to someone who needs it.

Printer 4 Color laserjet bought to do A4 colour proofing. Replaced
Printer 2.

*overhead phone line: direct strike. Phone connected to modem connected
to serial parallel card connected to printer.

Computer survived, card, modem and printer did not. Ancient Ex rental TV
BER as well but managed to get v expensive parallel tracking record deck
repaired. Everything else survived apart from sockets blown out of walls
and some mains wire arcing to ground.


House rewired at insistence of insurance company.



Did they fork out for a lightning conductor system as well;?....

heehg phone line is of course protected by BT iun its own sort of way
normally. But nothing handles a direct strike. There was in fact NOTHING
left of the overhead wire feeding the house except a black smear on the
road it crossed.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Tue, 15 Jul 2014, tim..... wrote:


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost of
replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

Mine arent.

I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of the HPs that
I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the level of
use and abuse that they get.

I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had the one failure just
recently, of the main logic card.
Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now, all with some sort of electronics
failure.

I've had 2 printers in my lifetime

what do you guys do to get through so many?

1982, my first printer, a dot matrix, cost five hundred dollars Canadian.
It was horribly slow, didn't do descenders properly, and was about as
cheap as I could get.

1984, a daisy wheel printer, spent about four hundred dollars on it.
Needed it because the dot matrix was no good for anything but rough drafts
and program listings. It was like a typewriter with the keyboard removed
and a serial interface added. It was slow too, fast enough that I
couldn't go and do anything before I had to roll another sheet of paper
in, but slow enough that I'd just wait for that next sheet of paper.

1989 a second dot matrix, only about $300. This one was much faster, and
could do "near letter quality" that was good enough for me. So it
replaced both of the previous printers, the daisy wheel had failed anyway
because some plastic gear had worn out.

1994 about. A used Apple Imagewriter dot matrix printer, paid about $20
for it. I think I still have it, it's the sort of thing (like the first
dot matrix) that would jsut keep running and running. Cost a lot new, you
see that in it's lack of flimsiness. I needed it because I was using a
Mac at the time.

2001, my first inkjet. Paid about $15 at a garage sale, the seller even
warned me that the cartridge needed refilling. So I got a refill kid,
spent about as much as the printer for two fillings. This was an Apple
Stylewriter, still a sturdy printer (and people paid lots for them
originally). I used up the first refill within a month, the novelty of
being able to print graphics fast and easily taking control. But then I
saw that when the ink got wet, it smeared, which meant the second refill
was barely used, and I never used an inkjet since.

2001, that fall. I got a TI I think it was laser printer for $20 at a
school rummage sale. I used it until the toner ran out, more novelty of
laser printing. But, it was an off-brand and old, and since there seemed
to be some printing problem (I wasn't sure if refilling the toner would
fix that or not), I decided not to spend money on refilling it.

About 2003. An HP 4P laser printer, $15 at a Rotary Club "garage sale".
It had a very short page count, the door over the ram expansion slots was
missing and the toner cartridge was a generic (as if the original had been
swapped before the printer was donated to the sale). I used up what was
left of the toner cartridge, and over the next few years was printing
quite a bit, because it was cheap, so I bought two refilled cartridges,
though the second one is still in use a decade or so later. I see no sign
that this is going to die, especially since that period of peak printing
is in the past.

If the laser printer dies, I'd just poke around until I found another one.
Those too are being tossed, I assume in many cases because they are now
cheap and so nobody is fussing over the waste. Since I can find one lying
on the sidewalk, the cost of a refilled cartridge isn't so bad, since
someone else has paid for the printer.

There was a period when I kept bringing home inkjet printers found on the
sidewalk, the plan had been to put one into use for color, but I just
couldn't be bothered. The cost of the cartridges, the reality that I
don't print enough color to use up the cartridges before they dry out, the
fact that the ink smears, even free the inkjet printers aren't appealing.
Though, one time when I needed something like 24Vdc power supply, I found
just what I needed when I opened up one of those inkjet printers.

Michael

Costco and most (I assume) drug stores offer true photochromic prints from
digital files. If you're within reasonable distance from such a retailer, I
don't see the point in owning a color printer -- other than for business
purposes.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
tim..... wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost
of replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

Mine arent.

I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of the HPs
that I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the
level of use and abuse that they get.

I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had the one failure
just recently, of the main logic card.

Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now, all with some sort of
electronics failure.

I've had 2 printers in my lifetime

Yebbut, your lifetime is a hell of a lot shorter than some of ours.

That's irrelevant

what relevant is the amount of time that it has been reasonable for
individuals to own their own printer, and my adulthood covers all of that
period

tim

In article om,
lid says...

[snip]

I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
ENTIRELY to you!

One end of the cable doesn't move. 8-)

True, but where's the geek cred in hitting
a stationary target?

Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote

I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,

I do, with the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't have chipped carts.

I do too. The cheapos that I use have four times the capacity of the
genuines. The print quality and colours are as good also. I doubt that the
ink is quite as 'stable' on photo paper and exposed to sunlight,

Yeah, I don't do photos even tho the printer can do them.

OTOH there is no reason why they cant use the same ink Canon does.

but for 'regular' paper printing, it's just fine long term. I have printed
many photos using these inks in situations where they are not exposed to
sunlight all the time, and they have been perfectly ok at the time of
printing, and have remained so. I have been using these cartridges for
probably three years now, and this Magenta one is the very first that I
have had a problem with.

And I can't even have that problem given mine arent even chipped.

Even that is a random chance electronic problem, rather than mechanical or
ink related.

Yeah, and I bet that's been seen with genuine HP carts too.

I reported the symptoms here merely for interest and to help others who
may find themselves in this situation, as of course, the chip on a genuine
HP cartridge could just as easily fail in exactly the same way ...

Yeah, I wish more would do that and use the actual error message
you got too so that anyone can find what you reported when they
do a google when they get that message and try the obvious
to see if it's the problem they have got too.