For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks if
you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been using
cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most recent ones
I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even see how much ink
is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges, and the chip on them
says so correctly. I have never had a problem with the printer failing to
recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of the correct colour, and the
usage indicator seems to remain accurate.

So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The following
ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all six of them,
then ...

Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the main
board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I checked
its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one in,
expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(

A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about this
one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these HPs also,
and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and asked if he
happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he takes them back to
Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came over today with a bag of
them, so I started by taking all of my cartridges out. As expected, it told
me that all of the cartridges were missing, so I put in an empty colour one
and restarted it. This time, it told me that only five were missing, and the
one that I had just put in was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.

One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one by
one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the very
last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
was still ok.

So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2 wire
bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read
them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,
must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues
the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked
in the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

The problem was simple, but look at the effort to correctly diagnose it.

Ahe but we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save
time down the line.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...
How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked
in the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

The problem was simple, but look at the effort to correctly diagnose it.

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...
How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked
in the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

The problem was simple, but look at the effort to correctly diagnose it.




"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Ahe but we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and
save time down the line.
Brian

Quite so, Brian, which is why I bothered to tell the story to all the good
folk on these two groups ... :-)

Arfa

On 14/07/14 09:08, Brian Gaff wrote:
we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save
time down the line.

Except of course that the time to fix often exceeds the cost to replace.



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

The Natural Philosopher scribbled...


On 14/07/14 09:08, Brian Gaff wrote:
we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save
time down the line.

Except of course that the time to fix often exceeds the cost to replace.


Are you unable to think 'long term' ?

On 14/07/14 10:41, Jabba wrote:
The Natural Philosopher scribbled...


On 14/07/14 09:08, Brian Gaff wrote:
we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save
time down the line.

Except of course that the time to fix often exceeds the cost to replace.


Are you unable to think 'long term' ?

I am at a loss to understand your irrelevance.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Monday, 14 July 2014 10:41:34 UTC+1, Jabba wrote:
The Natural Philosopher scribbled...





On 14/07/14 09:08, Brian Gaff wrote:

we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once

encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save

time down the line.



Except of course that the time to fix often exceeds the cost to replace.





Are you unable to think 'long term' ?

In the long term somethimes is best to throw something out that keeps going wrong.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...
How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked
in the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

The problem was simple, but look at the effort to correctly diagnose it.


As is ever the case with our game, William ?? An open circuit resistor is a
'simple' problem, but might take hours to locate. As it was my own, and my
time is my own, in this case I thought it was worth it ...

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked
in the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

The problem was simple, but look at the effort to correctly diagnose it.

As is ever the case with our game, William ?? An open circuit resistor is
a 'simple' problem, but might take hours to locate. As it was my own,
and my time is my own, in this case I thought it was worth it ...

No criticism was intended. (I've been through this sort of thing more times
than I care to admit.) Rather, I was trying to draw a contrast between the
simplicity of the problem and the difficulty resolving it.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 02:22:06 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Find the model number of your HP ink sprayer and perform the reset
cerimony. It's usually something like holding down 2 buttons on the
front panel, while straining your back trying to find plug in the
power cord. The printer will lose all its saved settings, but at
least it will work. Also, there may be a soft reset, similar to a
power cycle. If available, try that first. I think it also loads a
backup image of the firmware, so you might need to update that from
the HP web pile. Maybe one of these:
http://www.out-of-warranty.com/how-to-reset-hewlett-packard-hp-all-in-one-printers/

Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They range in age from
about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
ink carts. My favorite are the one's the claim the ink has "expired"
even though the cartridge is full.

They should take back HP's only award for ecologically correct inkjet
printers:
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/environment/awards.html
GREENBEST 2011. The MFP HP F4480 printer was named the winner
of a GREENBEST award in Brazil. The printer was chosen based
on its environmentally sound design, use of recycled plastics
in both the printer and HP cartridges, and its ENERGY STAR®
certification.
Retch.

Incidentally, unplug the switching power supply for a minute as those
ocassionally get hung and do strange things.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 02:22:06 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
the
bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Find the model number of your HP ink sprayer and perform the reset
cerimony. It's usually something like holding down 2 buttons on the
front panel, while straining your back trying to find plug in the
power cord. The printer will lose all its saved settings, but at
least it will work. Also, there may be a soft reset, similar to a
power cycle. If available, try that first. I think it also loads a
backup image of the firmware, so you might need to update that from
the HP web pile. Maybe one of these:
http://www.out-of-warranty.com/how-to-reset-hewlett-packard-hp-all-in-one-printers/

I went through all the hard and soft resets first, of course Jeff, but to no
avail. Then I found the bad cap of which there is plenty of tell on the net.
But as I said at the end, the ultimate problem turned out to be the chip
itself on the dark magenta cartridge. The problem looked for all the world
like it was related to the printer hardware, when all the time, it was an
electronic problem with a cartridge.

Incidentally, it's a C5180

Arfa

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
even though the cartridge is full.

I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive government.
And this is one of those case where it's needed.

There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise -- specifically,
how long products should last. * This would do a great deal to reduce waste
and short-term "techno-churn". (Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy
consumer product. Toasters are generally junk. And let's not talk about shoe
laces.)

The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers me --
yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed. Businesses
should care enough about quality to make "sturdy" products without having to
be forced to do so. And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing got
outsourced to China -- that they did so.

The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.

* Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied merchantability
requires products to be of average for their type. Of course, when every
product in a category is junk, the average sinks to a very low level.

William Sommerwerck scribbled...


"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
even though the cartridge is full.

I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive government.
And this is one of those case where it's needed.

There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise -- specifically,
how long products should last. * This would do a great deal to reduce waste
and short-term "techno-churn". (Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy
consumer product. Toasters are generally junk. And let's not talk about shoe
laces.)

The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers me --
yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed. Businesses
should care enough about quality to make "sturdy" products without having to
be forced to do so. And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing got
outsourced to China -- that they did so.

The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.

* Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied merchantability
requires products to be of average for their type. Of course, when every
product in a category is junk, the average sinks to a very low level.


Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

"Jabba" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

On 14/07/2014 13:42, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Jabba" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.

If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost of
replacing toner cartridges.

Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.

On 14/07/14 13:42, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Jabba" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?



depends on what you mean by 'inexpenbsive'

My HP colour laser is on its third set of cartridges and yes I have
spent more on cartridges than on the printer, but its still not a huge
amount.

Sub £200 for a networked printer than can handle the whole household.







--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Jabba" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?






Yes, if you want photos and live in the US. Walgreens. Be interesting
to see if they bring that service to Boots in the UK now that they own it.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 05:42:33 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"Jabba" wrote in message
rldhosting.com...

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

Is $150 too much for your budget?
http://www.brothermall.com/Printers/Model/HL3070CW/Refurbished#.U8QQLUC9Y0o
Not the best color laser printer on the planet, but quite cheap.
Figure on about $70 for a set of 4 replacement clone carts on eBay, or
about $200 for brand new retail. The color carts are good for about
1400 pages:
$70 / 1400 = $0.05/page
(I refill my own color carts, which costs me about $32 to refill 4
carts).

A similar ink spraying printer might cost $30 for a set of carts, and
optimistically print 500 pages (usually less).
$30 / 500 = $0.06/page

In other words, the cost of ink/toner is slightly cheaper for the
color laser printer, if you use refilled and clone carts and toner.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

William Sommerwerck wrote
Jabba wrote

Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.

If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?

And even if you don't want color, they are still much cheaper
than any alternative if you don't print much but do print a bit.

On Monday, 14 July 2014 13:28:20 UTC+1, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message

...

Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
even though the cartridge is full.



I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive government.
And this is one of those case where it's needed.



There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise -- specifically,
how long products should last.

Almost impossible to do other than change warrenties or guarantees which is already in existance.

* This would do a great deal to reduce waste
and short-term "techno-churn". (Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy
consumer product. Toasters are generally junk. And let's not talk about shoe
laces.)

then make shoes that tie up with laces illegal :-)



The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers me --
yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed. Businesses
should care enough about quality to make "sturdy" products without having to
be forced to do so. And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing got
outsourced to China -- that they did so.



The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.

But that's not what the customer wants.
If that were the case we'd still be putting our fingers in telephone dials and dragging the dial around and waiting for it to return until we did the next number.


* Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied merchantability
requires products to be of average for their type. Of course, when every
product in a category is junk, the average sinks to a very low level.

Not sure average means anything here.

William Sommerwerck wrote
Jeff Liebermann wrote

Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
even though the cartridge is full.

I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive
government. And this is one of those case where it's needed.

No it is not.

There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise --
specifically, how long products should last. * This would do a
great deal to reduce waste and short-term "techno-churn".

No it would not. You're never going to stop very cheap junk being
bought by consumers now that ebay and amazon make it so easy.

(Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy consumer product.

I don't agree that they are a lousy consumer product. They
are in fact fantastically cheap, particularly when you arent
stupid enough to use the manufacturers' expensive ink.

The price of laser printers so low now that almost
anyone can afford one. I don't use them myself,
because I print so rarely that I just need something
dirt cheap and prefer the color for what I do print.

Toasters are generally junk.

True, but I fix that by getting them at garage/yard sales for $2

And let's not talk about shoe laces.)

I don't bother with laced shoes or boots.

The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers
me -- yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed.

And it wouldn't work anyway.

Businesses should care enough about quality to make
"sturdy" products without having to be forced to do so.

And they do with some stuff like cars and cutlery etc and
with the modern stainless steel stuff that has replaced the
older tin plate stuff that never lasted anything like as long.

And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing
got outsourced to China -- that they did so.

They still do.

The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.

That is nothing like a solution. They would just be ignored.

* Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied
merchantability requires products to be of average for their type.

That mangles the law.

Of course, when every product in a category is junk,

That's never the case.

the average sinks to a very low level.

I've just recently seen the junk problem with leather
belts, the sort you use to stop your pants falling down.
Plenty to buy for peanuts, but they were all composite
leather which never last long, the belt comes apart into
the components in less than a year or so. Just found
someone who still makes them out of sheets of well
tanned leather, the older traditional single piece of
leather. Not clear why the stuff from china is composite
leather, you'd think that that would cost more to make
even with the low labor costs in china etc.

I'm not convinced that govt regulation
could do anything about leather belts.

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks if
you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been using
cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most recent
ones I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even see how
much ink is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges, and the
chip on them says so correctly. I have never had a problem with the
printer failing to recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of the
correct colour, and the usage indicator seems to remain accurate.

So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The
following ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all six
of them, then ...

Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the main
board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I checked
its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one in,
expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(

A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about this
one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these HPs
also, and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and asked
if he happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he takes them
back to Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came over today
with a bag of them, so I started by taking all of my cartridges out. As
expected, it told me that all of the cartridges were missing, so I put in
an empty colour one and restarted it. This time, it told me that only five
were missing, and the one that I had just put in was nearly empty and
should be replaced soon.

One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one
by one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the
very last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six
cartridges were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it
in, and all was still ok.

So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
wire bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor
to read them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta
cartridge, must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the
processor issues the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot
up, none of them are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are
not present.

How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...

Arfa

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.

I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
then backed out.

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.

Michael

In article ple.org,
Michael Black scribeth thus
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.

I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
then backed out.

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.

Michael

Never mind that .. did you find and Naked selfies;?...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28264446
--
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, tony sayer wrote:

In article ple.org,
Michael Black scribeth thus
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Brian Gaff wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.

I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
then backed out.

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.

Michael

Never mind that .. did you find and Naked selfies;?...

No, there were no photos or video on it. I did indeed check.

Michael

On 14/07/14 17:25, Jethro_uk wrote:
The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.

Similar here. Got a laptop that was 'making a funny noise'

Had been dropped and CPU fan was rubbing..30 seconds to 'fix'



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:42:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 14/07/14 17:25, Jethro_uk wrote:
The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.

Similar here. Got a laptop that was 'making a funny noise'

Had been dropped and CPU fan was rubbing..30 seconds to 'fix'

Presumably a recent model with an SSD then?
--
J B Good

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:15:05 -0400, Michael Black wrote:

I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with
someone's music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I
assumed, precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be
something wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed
it.

Is there a newer/better model.

I suppose so, but that generation iPod gives more storage than later ones.
And I see people selling them used, and still hoping to get some
significant money for them.

The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.

I always figure that so long as someone else is paying for the stuff new,
there's nothing wrong with me having a gadget habit. I didn't need a GPS,
but since I could buy one at a garage sale for five dollars, I might as
well.

Michael

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 09:07:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian

No, that's not why such printers get tossed. The problem is that they
cost more than they're worth to repair. I charge $75/hr for shop time
(which I'm told is on the low side). Most customers are not willing
to pay more than about 30% of the price of a new replacement to have
something fixed. Therefore, for a $150 retail printer, I can maybe
charge $50 before the customer will decline the repair. For specialty
items, sometimes they'll pay up to 60% of the replacement cost, but
that's rare. So, what can be done for $50 in labor? Very little.

If someone drags in an inkjet, it almost always requires some level of
cleaning. A laser can be cleaned with compressed air in a few
minutes. An inkjet requires disassembly and hand cleaning with a rag
and solvent that usually takes 60 to 90 minutes (and makes a mess). If
all that was wrong with your AOI inkjet printer, would you pay $75 to
$100 just to have it cleaned? Probably not.

So, the alternative is to just toss it. I pickup a few inkjet
printers for various nefarious purposes at the local recycler.
However, the return rate on inkjets has been so high, that they now go
directly into the dumpster.

Kodak tried to solve the problem by making an expensive inkjet
printer, that used cheap refillable carts. Basically, you pay up
front. It was basically a good idea, and should have worked. However,
they forgot that inkjets are inherently messy. It was a difficult
printer to disassemble and clean, and usually ended up at the
recycler. The few that still know how to operate a cleaning rag just
love them and plan to use them forever:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2011054/kodak-printers-are-gone-but-the-ink-sells-on.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, July 14, 2014 2:22:06 AM UTC+1, Arfa Daily wrote:
For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series

all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks if

you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been using

cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most recent ones

I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even see how much ink

is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges, and the chip on them

says so correctly. I have never had a problem with the printer failing to

recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of the correct colour, and the

usage indicator seems to remain accurate.



So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting

there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.

Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's

obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel

button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the

power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off

properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The following

ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all six of them,

then ...



Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and

there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the main

board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I checked

its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one in,

expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(



A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about this

one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these HPs also,

and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and asked if he

happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he takes them back to

Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came over today with a bag of

them, so I started by taking all of my cartridges out. As expected, it told

me that all of the cartridges were missing, so I put in an empty colour one

and restarted it. This time, it told me that only five were missing, and the

one that I had just put in was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.



One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the

cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one by

one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the very

last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges

were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all

was still ok.



So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2 wire

bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read

them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,

must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues

the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them

are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.



How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the

bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...



Arfa

I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges, so have given up on them and pay through the nose for genuine ones now. If I had a lot to print I would buy a mono laser.

Philip

scribbled...



I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges, so have given up on them and pay through the nose for genuine ones now. If I had a lot to print I would buy a mono laser.


If you're only printing occasionally, a laser is still better value.
The 'ink' doesn't dry out or run out of date.

On Monday, 14 July 2014 15:44:23 UTC+1, Jabba wrote:
scribbled...







I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges, so have given up on them and pay through the nose for genuine ones now. If I had a lot to print I would buy a mono laser.





If you're only printing occasionally, a laser is still better value.

The 'ink' doesn't dry out or run out of date.

It does.

Jabba wrote:
scribbled...



I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges, so have given up on them and pay through the nose for genuine ones now. If I had a lot to print I would buy a mono laser.


If you're only printing occasionally, a laser is still better value.
The 'ink' doesn't dry out or run out of date.





Agreed.

Jabba wrote
wrote

I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,
so have given up on them and pay through the nose for genuine
ones now. If I had a lot to print I would buy a mono laser.

If you're only printing occasionally, a laser is still better value.

Like hell it is.

The 'ink' doesn't dry out or run out of date.

My ink never dries out or ever runs out of date either.

And I can print on CDs and DVDs too.

wrote

I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,

I do, with the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't have chipped carts.

so have given up on them and pay through the nose for genuine
ones now. If I had a lot to print I would buy a mono laser.

I wouldn't, because I prefer the color at times.

And they can't print on CD/DVDs either.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
wrote
I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,

I do, with the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't have chipped carts.

I do too. The cheapos that I use have four times the capacity of the
genuines. The print quality and colours are as good also. I doubt that the
ink is quite as 'stable' on photo paper and exposed to sunlight, but for
'regular' paper printing, it's just fine long term. I have printed many
photos using these inks in situations where they are not exposed to sunlight
all the time, and they have been perfectly ok at the time of printing, and
have remained so. I have been using these cartridges for probably three
years now, and this Magenta one is the very first that I have had a problem
with. Even that is a random chance electronic problem, rather than
mechanical or ink related. I reported the symptoms here merely for interest
and to help others who may find themselves in this situation, as of course,
the chip on a genuine HP cartridge could just as easily fail in exactly the
same way ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote

I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,

I do, with the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't have chipped carts.

I do too. The cheapos that I use have four times the capacity of the
genuines. The print quality and colours are as good also. I doubt that the
ink is quite as 'stable' on photo paper and exposed to sunlight,

Yeah, I don't do photos even tho the printer can do them.

OTOH there is no reason why they cant use the same ink Canon does.

but for 'regular' paper printing, it's just fine long term. I have printed
many photos using these inks in situations where they are not exposed to
sunlight all the time, and they have been perfectly ok at the time of
printing, and have remained so. I have been using these cartridges for
probably three years now, and this Magenta one is the very first that I
have had a problem with.

And I can't even have that problem given mine arent even chipped.

Even that is a random chance electronic problem, rather than mechanical or
ink related.

Yeah, and I bet that's been seen with genuine HP carts too.

I reported the symptoms here merely for interest and to help others who
may find themselves in this situation, as of course, the chip on a genuine
HP cartridge could just as easily fail in exactly the same way ...

Yeah, I wish more would do that and use the actual error message
you got too so that anyone can find what you reported when they
do a google when they get that message and try the obvious
to see if it's the problem they have got too.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 12:03:19 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
wrote
I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,

I do, with the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't have chipped carts.

I do too. The cheapos that I use have four times the capacity of the
genuines. The print quality and colours are as good also. I doubt that the
ink is quite as 'stable' on photo paper and exposed to sunlight, but for
'regular' paper printing, it's just fine long term. I have printed many
photos using these inks in situations where they are not exposed to sunlight
all the time, and they have been perfectly ok at the time of printing, and
have remained so. I have been using these cartridges for probably three
years now, and this Magenta one is the very first that I have had a problem
with. Even that is a random chance electronic problem, rather than
mechanical or ink related. I reported the symptoms here merely for interest
and to help others who may find themselves in this situation, as of course,
the chip on a genuine HP cartridge could just as easily fail in exactly the
same way ...


Well, I thank you for offering the 'Heads Up' advice. It basically
boils down to removing one ink tank/cartridge at a time and observe
whether this changes the status before concluding that the printer is
seriously broken. Not a particularly onerous fault finding task in the
overall scheme of things I'd have thought.
--
J B Good

"Johny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 12:03:19 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
wrote
I've never had satisfactory performance from cheapo cartridges,

I do, with the last of the Canon inkjets that doesn't have chipped
carts.

I do too. The cheapos that I use have four times the capacity of the
genuines. The print quality and colours are as good also. I doubt that the
ink is quite as 'stable' on photo paper and exposed to sunlight, but for
'regular' paper printing, it's just fine long term. I have printed many
photos using these inks in situations where they are not exposed to
sunlight
all the time, and they have been perfectly ok at the time of printing, and
have remained so. I have been using these cartridges for probably three
years now, and this Magenta one is the very first that I have had a
problem
with. Even that is a random chance electronic problem, rather than
mechanical or ink related. I reported the symptoms here merely for
interest
and to help others who may find themselves in this situation, as of
course,
the chip on a genuine HP cartridge could just as easily fail in exactly
the
same way ...


Well, I thank you for offering the 'Heads Up' advice. It basically
boils down to removing one ink tank/cartridge at a time and observe
whether this changes the status before concluding that the printer is
seriously broken. Not a particularly onerous fault finding task in the
overall scheme of things I'd have thought.
--
J B Good


How clever you must be Johnny ... :-)

Arfa